Telefunken M16 vs Apex 460 Controversy

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Any opinions on this? It appears they are the same mic with a price
difference of $1200.00 or so. Is Telefunken pulling a fast one?

http://www.studioreviews.com/m16-460.htm

Jim
--
it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your
mouth and remove all doubt....

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chris Cavell <chriscavell@cavellstudios.com> wrote:
>
>"Is Telefunken pulling a fast one?"
>
>Or is telefunken just encountering higher costs by getting their supply
>through a european dealer instead of straight from Shanghai, and
>putting in their own NOS 12AX7 tubes...as well as the additional costs
>of chrome plating and powder coating?

The basic question can be answered by checking the material that the
case and frame are made of. If they are cheap cartridge brass, then
it doesn't matter whether they are made in China or not, they still
aren't worth any more than if they were made in China. If they are
made from good quality hard bronze, they are worth substantially more
even if they are made in China, because they will have fewer body resonance
problems and result in better sound.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

According to Telefunken USA, here's their breakdown of the Tele USA
M16:

Capsule is supposed to be custom manufactured by a european company to
Tele USA's specs, is called the K16, based on the Neumann kk16.

Circuitry is supposed to be based on the C12.

The body, grill, tube socket, board, and xformer are manufactured in
China assembled and painted/polished in the US by Tele USA.

The mics are assembled in the USA using the same stock components
(resistors and caps) they use in their 251's (supposedly assembled side
by side in the same room as the 251's). They install their own NOS
jan-phillips 12ax7 tubes.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"LJM" <ljmax@NOwhere.net> wrote in message
news:Q%3je.3127$X92.294@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> > Chris Cavell <chriscavell@cavellstudios.com> wrote:
> >
> >>"Is Telefunken pulling a fast one?"
> >>
> >>Or is telefunken just encountering higher costs by getting their supply
> >>through a european dealer instead of straight from Shanghai, and
> >>putting in their own NOS 12AX7 tubes...as well as the additional costs
> >>of chrome plating and powder coating?
> >
> >
> > The basic question can be answered by checking the material that the
> > case and frame are made of. If they are cheap cartridge brass, then
> > it doesn't matter whether they are made in China or not, they still
> > aren't worth any more than if they were made in China. If they are
> > made from good quality hard bronze, they are worth substantially more
> > even if they are made in China, because they will have fewer body
resonance
> > problems and result in better sound.
> > --scott
>
> I thought that as well but when looking at the frequency response I
> changed my mind. http://www.studioreviews.com/images/freq-large1.jpg
>
> Jim

LOL the guy took a picture of his monitor! Never heard of a screenshot?
Nothing like a little geometric distortion to better illustrate a frequency
response graph...

2.5kHz is a nasty spot for a presence peak IMO, unless you like the SM58
"mother-in-law" sound.

And the guy mentions an output transformer...? Don't budget condensers
avoid them like the plague? I'd be very surprised if they didn't use a FET
buffer wherever impedence conversion might be required, apart from the tube
of course.

Here's something else to examine more closely:
http://www.studioreviews.com/images/tubemics-front.jpg
He missed that the cylindrical capacitor on the left side seems to be
different between the two models, which could affect sound quality as well,
but certainly doesn't justify the price difference. But most importantly
note the Philips tube type - 12AX7 (low input tolerance, high gain), when
the mic is designed for a 12AT7 (higher input tolerance, lower gain). Gee,
I wonder why the Philips tube is noisier? Stupid git thinks that makes the
chink tube "superior". The funny part is that RFT manufactures 12AT7's
themselves. WTF are they using the wrong type of another brand for? I bet
they could sell those ECG 12AX7's for more than the cost of buying JAN
Philips 12AT7's, the same caliber of the right tube type. I'll have what
they're smoking please.

Note that RFT is really only a company that was contracted to make some
tubes to be labelled "Telefunken", and have never produced a single
component of the caliber of true vintage Telefunken. I think the
association between the two is why RFT tubes are so woefully overpriced when
they only marginally outperform Sovteks for the mostpart.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ca5je.4491$Rr3.886@read1.cgocable.net> zigakly@nospam.cx writes:

> And the guy mentions an output transformer...? Don't budget condensers
> avoid them like the plague? I'd be very surprised if they didn't use a FET
> buffer wherever impedence conversion might be required, apart from the tube
> of course.

Some mic manufacturers, even manufacturers of "budget" mics, use
transformers for their sound (or un-soud) characteristics. Better
manufacturers use better transformers. A key component to modifying an
Oktava ribbon mic in a recent article in Tape Op was a replacement for
the stock transformer. Lundahl transformers cost a lot more than the
original part, obviously with good justification.

> http://www.studioreviews.com/images/tubemics-front.jpg
> He missed that the cylindrical capacitor on the left side seems to be
> different between the two models, which could affect sound quality as well,
> but certainly doesn't justify the price difference.

- Capacitor: $1
- Knowing which capacitor to replace with a better one, and which
good one to replace it with - pricele$$


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

GKB wrote:

> Looks like they , " edited " out the thread from
> gearslutz...............censorship ?

Looks like the thread is still there. Try finding it here:

http://gearslutz.com/board/forumdi [...] rune=&f=12

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hey guys,

this is kind of personal but if you're interested in the hottest
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Whew, had to get that off my chest.

I am the gayest dolphins fan on the face of the earth. There, it feels
good to come out of the closet. Jim Maxon, Maxmusic Project Studio / PO
Box 1405 / Anthony, FL 32617, 352-629-9713, email: ljmax@earthlink.net