Age of Conquerors Internet TCP/IP for DirectPlay problem

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.games.ageofkings (More info?)

Hi Nathan,

One or both of you might be affected by NAT.
Possibly even by your own Internet Provider! :-)
To be sure, try the NAT or NOT test here:
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~trw/games/nat_or_not.php

--
Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
Jimmy S. http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
Visit my MSN Zone.com and Gaming Help Site: http://mvps.org/nibblesnbits
MS Assisted Support: http://support.microsoft.com/select/?target=assistance
My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any rights.
_________________________________________________________

"Nathan Dornbrook" <NathanDornbrook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:78D09AA9-4121-45B8-A1E1-1754A664A124@microsoft.com...
> Hi, guys!
>
> I've bought several copies of Age of Kings: The Conquerors for me and my
> friends to play. One of them is in Edinburgh.
>
> We tried to use the Internet TCP/IP for DirectPlay feature, but it didn't
> work. Neither machine can recognize the games started on the other machine.
>
> Both machines are XP Pro SP2.
>
> The problem occurs whether there is a firewall on or not.
>
> Both machines are connected to the Internet directly and have public IP
> addresses.
>
> We can establish a chat session using dxdiag, but still can't see each
> other's games.
>
> What's going on? Any ideas?
>
> Cheers!
> - Nathan

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.games.ageofkings (More info?)

Hi Nathan,

You've done some exceptional troubleshooting. Here are some
Additional Resources:

Deploying Windows Firewall Settings for Microsoft Windows XP with Service Pack 2

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads [...] layLang=en

Manually Configuring Windows Firewall in Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/c [...] g0204.mspx

--
Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
Jimmy S. http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
Visit my MSN Zone.com and Gaming Help Site: http://mvps.org/nibblesnbits
MS Assisted Support: http://support.microsoft.com/select/?target=assistance
My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any rights.
_________________________________________________________

"Nathan Dornbrook" <NathanDornbrook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:6F0517CF-D585-41A5-95BE-3619B08EF477@microsoft.com...
> Hi, Jimmy!
>
> Thanks for that tip. I'm not NATted, according to that utility, although I
> was fairly certain that I wasn't, since the 68.83/16 rests outside the RFC
> 1918 address space reserved for NAT. Also, I pay for public IPs, so I'd have
> been upset to have discovered that the service provided wasn't what I paid
> for.
>
> In order to eliminate the ISP from the equipment string, here's what I did
> next:
>
> 1. Isolate three machines on a LAN on a 100mbps switch, disconnected from
> the Internet, and give them all IP addresses in the 192.168.0/24 with the
> default gateways set as the local interface (this will cause the ARPs to be
> propagated locally, and since there's no routing going on, this is exactly
> what we want).
>
> 2. Attempt to create a game and connect from each machine to the other. It
> didn't work. LAN TCP/IP connection looks for a game indefinitely and will
> never find one. If I switch modes to Internet TCP/IP connection for
> DirectPlay and specify an IP address, I get the same symptom I got before,
> where a blank game is returned.
>
> Now, here are some additional interesting symptoms:
>
> 1. ping works between all machines.
> 2. a telnet to port 47624 on all machines hosting a game returns a "could
> not connect to host" error that would indicate a filtered port
> 3. all firewalls are turned off
> 4. A Macintosh appears to see a multiplayer game on one of the machines
> (when it's acting as a client), but then can't join the game and returns a
> failure.
>
> Any more ideas?
>
> This is very odd. I'm inclined to suspect SP2, which has made my life so
> difficult in other ares.
>
> Does Age of Conquerors attempt to use raw sockets to connect?
>
> Is there anyone out there who has managed to get Age of Conquerors to work
> with TCP/IP connections, either on the LAN or across the Internet on Windows
> XP SP2?
>
> Again, I could really use some ideas. I've got a fairly solid lab set up
> here, and I'm willing to experiment.
>
> Cheers!
> Nathan
>
> "Jimmy S." wrote:
>
>> Hi Nathan,
>>
>> One or both of you might be affected by NAT.
>> Possibly even by your own Internet Provider! :-)
>> To be sure, try the NAT or NOT test here:
>> http://www.u.arizona.edu/~trw/games/nat_or_not.php
>>
>> --
>> Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
>> Jimmy S. http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>>
>> Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
>> Visit my MSN Zone.com and Gaming Help Site: http://mvps.org/nibblesnbits
>> MS Assisted Support: http://support.microsoft.com/select/?target=assistance
>> My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any rights.
>> _________________________________________________________
>>
>> "Nathan Dornbrook" <NathanDornbrook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:78D09AA9-4121-45B8-A1E1-1754A664A124@microsoft.com...
>> > Hi, guys!
>> >
>> > I've bought several copies of Age of Kings: The Conquerors for me and my
>> > friends to play. One of them is in Edinburgh.
>> >
>> > We tried to use the Internet TCP/IP for DirectPlay feature, but it didn't
>> > work. Neither machine can recognize the games started on the other machine.
>> >
>> > Both machines are XP Pro SP2.
>> >
>> > The problem occurs whether there is a firewall on or not.
>> >
>> > Both machines are connected to the Internet directly and have public IP
>> > addresses.
>> >
>> > We can establish a chat session using dxdiag, but still can't see each
>> > other's games.
>> >
>> > What's going on? Any ideas?
>> >
>> > Cheers!
>> > - Nathan
>>
>>
>>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.games.ageofkings (More info?)

"Nathan Dornbrook" <Nathan Dornbrook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7FBC6634-F371-47DF-9B15-7356D7E3662B@microsoft.com...
| Hi, Jimmy!
|
| Thanks for the links to configuring the SP2 firewall. When I went to add the
| application, I discovered it already existed as an exception, which makes
| sense, since when the ZoneAlarm style pop-up window asked me if I wanted to
| allow or block Age of Empires II, I allowed it.
|
| But I'm suspicious of this exception. Examination shows that the Windows
| firewall is insufficiently flexible to allow a port range, and Age of Empires
| II is port agile, using a process borrowed from DCE-RPC to connect on 47624
| and then map to a subsequent port between 2300-2400. The Windows firewall
| doesn't allow port ranges to be allowed through and doesn't make any
| allowances for port agility inbound. I assume that it makes allowances for
| outbound port agility by using whatever the Windows equivalent of lsof is.
|
| I've gotten Age of Empires II to work across one-to-one NAT, PAT, satellite
| T1 shots with high latency, dial up connections with high latency and low
| bandwidth, Windows 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, XP SP1, Mac OS X and even XP SP2 - it
| works in Edinburgh between XP SP2 machines.
|
| I've synchronised the services (they are both running the same services)
| between the XP SP2 box in Alexandria and the XP SP2 box in Edinburgh, but
| still no joy. The box in Alexandria was running three services I had never
| seen before, ForceWare IP services, which some cursory web research shows to
| be Nvidia's hardware firewall. I tried to use the built in web interface,
| which should be running locally on 3724, but it wasn't there. Netstat showed
| no httpd listening on any port, and I turned all three services off.
|
| Here's another symtpom: on the XP SP2 box in Alexandria, no connections ever
| show up in netstat. Very strange.
|
| In addition, the Zone doesn't recognize the Age of Empires II installation,
| no matter how many times I re-install it.
|
| I've now used several different virus scanners to search for viruses (and
| then uninstalled them, leaving behind Trend PC-Cillin). I've used AdAware to
| look for spyware and malware and The Cleaner to look for Trojans. All
| machines come back clean (even Alexa is still removed) - although I didn't
| spend money on tools for the Mac.
|
| Next steps:
|
| 1. use nmap against all the boxes to see if they really are listening on
| 47624, even if netstat doesn't report that they are
|
| 2. configure a bespoke telnet server to listen on 47624 and then netcat
| traffic to it to verify that there isn't some kind of hardware firewall
| interfering
|
| 3. Build VPN servers in Edinburgh and Alexandria and use the VPN to bypass
| any kind of ISP filtering (remember, although, that this doesn't work locally
| in Alexandria unless the server is a Windows 2000 box)
|
| 4. Roll back to SP1 on the boxes in a patterned way to see if SP1 will work,
| then roll forward to see if SP2 breaks it
|
| 5. Although multiple reinstalls have taken place, reinstall after each above
| step.
|
| I'm flying to Edinburgh with a Windows 2000 laptop (IBM T23), a Windows XP
| SP2 laptop (IBM T42), a Mac PowerBook G4 and five copies of the game, two for
| Mac and three for Windows, as well as copies of every OS from Windows 2000
| forward and OS 9 up.
|
| If you have any additional ideas about what to test, specifically, I'd be
| very interested. In addition, if anyone knows how to contact the Windows HQL
| or the Microsoft internal testers who must have performed something similar,
| I'd like to talk to them and I'm happy to pay for their support.
|
| Sincerely,
| Nathan Dornbrook
|
| "Jimmy S." wrote:
|
| > Hi Nathan,
| >
| > You've done some exceptional troubleshooting. Here are some
| > Additional Resources:
| >
| > Deploying Windows Firewall Settings for Microsoft Windows XP with Service Pack 2
| >
| > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads [...] layLang=en
| >
| > Manually Configuring Windows Firewall in Windows XP Service Pack 2
| > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/c [...] g0204.mspx
| >
| > --
| > Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
| > Jimmy S. http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
| >
| > Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
| > Visit my MSN Zone.com and Gaming Help Site: http://mvps.org/nibblesnbits
| > MS Assisted Support: http://support.microsoft.com/select/?target=assistance
| > My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any rights.
| > _________________________________________________________
| >
| > "Nathan Dornbrook" <NathanDornbrook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > news:6F0517CF-D585-41A5-95BE-3619B08EF477@microsoft.com...
| > > Hi, Jimmy!
| > >
| > > Thanks for that tip. I'm not NATted, according to that utility, although I
| > > was fairly certain that I wasn't, since the 68.83/16 rests outside the RFC
| > > 1918 address space reserved for NAT. Also, I pay for public IPs, so I'd have
| > > been upset to have discovered that the service provided wasn't what I paid
| > > for.
| > >
| > > In order to eliminate the ISP from the equipment string, here's what I did
| > > next:
| > >
| > > 1. Isolate three machines on a LAN on a 100mbps switch, disconnected from
| > > the Internet, and give them all IP addresses in the 192.168.0/24 with the
| > > default gateways set as the local interface (this will cause the ARPs to be
| > > propagated locally, and since there's no routing going on, this is exactly
| > > what we want).
| > >
| > > 2. Attempt to create a game and connect from each machine to the other. It
| > > didn't work. LAN TCP/IP connection looks for a game indefinitely and will
| > > never find one. If I switch modes to Internet TCP/IP connection for
| > > DirectPlay and specify an IP address, I get the same symptom I got before,
| > > where a blank game is returned.
| > >
| > > Now, here are some additional interesting symptoms:
| > >
| > > 1. ping works between all machines.
| > > 2. a telnet to port 47624 on all machines hosting a game returns a "could
| > > not connect to host" error that would indicate a filtered port
| > > 3. all firewalls are turned off
| > > 4. A Macintosh appears to see a multiplayer game on one of the machines
| > > (when it's acting as a client), but then can't join the game and returns a
| > > failure.
| > >
| > > Any more ideas?
| > >
| > > This is very odd. I'm inclined to suspect SP2, which has made my life so
| > > difficult in other ares.
| > >
| > > Does Age of Conquerors attempt to use raw sockets to connect?
| > >
| > > Is there anyone out there who has managed to get Age of Conquerors to work
| > > with TCP/IP connections, either on the LAN or across the Internet on Windows
| > > XP SP2?
| > >
| > > Again, I could really use some ideas. I've got a fairly solid lab set up
| > > here, and I'm willing to experiment.
| > >
| > > Cheers!
| > > Nathan
| > >
| > > "Jimmy S." wrote:
| > >
| > >> Hi Nathan,
| > >>
| > >> One or both of you might be affected by NAT.
| > >> Possibly even by your own Internet Provider! :-)
| > >> To be sure, try the NAT or NOT test here:
| > >> http://www.u.arizona.edu/~trw/games/nat_or_not.php
| > >>
| > >> --
| > >> Cheers, Windows XP MVP Shell / User
| > >> Jimmy S. http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
| > >>
| > >> Game FAQs: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=FH;[LN];gms
| > >> Visit my MSN Zone.com and Gaming Help Site: http://mvps.org/nibblesnbits
| > >> MS Assisted Support: http://support.microsoft.com/select/?target=assistance
| > >> My advice is donated "AS IS" without warranty; nor do I confer any rights.
| > >> _________________________________________________________
| > >>
| > >> "Nathan Dornbrook" <NathanDornbrook@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
| > >> news:78D09AA9-4121-45B8-A1E1-1754A664A124@microsoft.com...
| > >> > Hi, guys!
| > >> >
| > >> > I've bought several copies of Age of Kings: The Conquerors for me and my
| > >> > friends to play. One of them is in Edinburgh.
| > >> >
| > >> > We tried to use the Internet TCP/IP for DirectPlay feature, but it didn't
| > >> > work. Neither machine can recognize the games started on the other machine.
| > >> >
| > >> > Both machines are XP Pro SP2.
| > >> >
| > >> > The problem occurs whether there is a firewall on or not.
| > >> >
| > >> > Both machines are connected to the Internet directly and have public IP
| > >> > addresses.
| > >> >
| > >> > We can establish a chat session using dxdiag, but still can't see each
| > >> > other's games.
| > >> >
| > >> > What's going on? Any ideas?
| > >> >
| > >> > Cheers!
| > >> > - Nathan
| > >>
| > >>
| > >>
| >
| >
| >

Hi Nathan,

You have canvased a lot of possiblities in your troublshooting already,
to follow up you could try the following newsgroup:
microsoft.public.directx.networking

Cheers,
Jimmy.