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Seeking help restoring father's LP

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Anonymous
May 20, 2005 4:02:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.jazz,rec.music.collecting.vinyl (More info?)

I have a one-off LP record my father had recorded of him back in 1962
in San Antonio, Texas (MasterSound, Inc. did the recording). My father
was an orchestra leader of some notoriety, though this is just a trio.
(He's still living at 96, too!)

I've done what I consider a decent job of restoring it using Audition
1.5, but I'd love to hear what someone more experienced with LP
restoration can do. I realize there are services who do this but they
might not be able to do any better, plus I'd rather this be
collaborative so I can learn from the experience. Even if the
respondent just restores one cut, at least I'll know what's possible
and how I might improve the results. I have worked as a recording
engineer so the respondent does not need to worry about dealing with a
technophobe or neophyte.

Thanks!
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 7:27:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.jazz,rec.music.collecting.vinyl (More info?)

Timmy <twlpclean@swbell.net> wrote:
>I have a one-off LP record my father had recorded of him back in 1962
>in San Antonio, Texas (MasterSound, Inc. did the recording). My father
>was an orchestra leader of some notoriety, though this is just a trio.
>(He's still living at 96, too!)

Is it really an LP? If it's an acetate from 1962, I am willing to bet
it's a wide groove disc.

>I've done what I consider a decent job of restoring it using Audition
>1.5, but I'd love to hear what someone more experienced with LP
>restoration can do. I realize there are services who do this but they
>might not be able to do any better, plus I'd rather this be
>collaborative so I can learn from the experience. Even if the
>respondent just restores one cut, at least I'll know what's possible
>and how I might improve the results. I have worked as a recording
>engineer so the respondent does not need to worry about dealing with a
>technophobe or neophyte.

I do this sort of thing on a regular basis, although I just do the
transcription side, I don't do any of the digital processing after the
fact. But if you played it with an LP stylus and it's a wide-groove
disc you may have wrecked the bottom of the groove already. It becomes
a matter of looking at it under a microscope to see what the groove
shape is now.

I have some propaganda up at http//www.kludgeaudio.com/salvage.html
somewhere.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 7:27:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.jazz,rec.music.collecting.vinyl (More info?)

In article <d6ldnr$hts$1@panix2.panix.com>, Scott Dorsey
<kludge@panix.com> wrote:

> Is it really an LP? If it's an acetate from 1962, I am willing to bet
> it's a wide groove disc.

There were microgroove dubplates too. He says that it has multiple
tracks, so it is probably microgroove. MasterSound was one of the top
recording studios of its time, so I would bet that they had the most up
to date equipment.

See ya
Steve

--
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
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The Quest for the BEST HOTDOG in Los Angeles! http://www.hotdogspot.com/
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
Rediscovering great stuff from the past! http://www.vintagetips.com/
Related resources
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 9:10:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.jazz,rec.music.collecting.vinyl (More info?)

Stephen Worth <news@vintageip.com> wrote:
>In article <d6ldnr$hts$1@panix2.panix.com>, Scott Dorsey
><kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> Is it really an LP? If it's an acetate from 1962, I am willing to bet
>> it's a wide groove disc.
>
>There were microgroove dubplates too. He says that it has multiple
>tracks, so it is probably microgroove. MasterSound was one of the top
>recording studios of its time, so I would bet that they had the most up
>to date equipment.

I see them every once in a while, but they are a lot less common, even in
the late sixties. It's entirely possible, though.

Even some radio stations went to microgroove. I have around here somewhere
some acetates cut at WQXR in the early seventies that were all LP groove.

My main headache is that so many of these turn out to be dubs made from
master discs which have been lost, and the playback technology back then
wasn't what it is today.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 4:47:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.jazz,rec.music.collecting.vinyl (More info?)

"Timmy" <twlpclean@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:1116615743.771503.78540@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I have a one-off LP record my father had recorded of him back in 1962
> in San Antonio, Texas (MasterSound, Inc. did the recording). My father
> was an orchestra leader of some notoriety, though this is just a trio.
> (He's still living at 96, too!)
>
> I've done what I consider a decent job of restoring it using Audition
> 1.5, but I'd love to hear what someone more experienced with LP
> restoration can do. I realize there are services who do this but they
> might not be able to do any better, plus I'd rather this be
> collaborative so I can learn from the experience. Even if the
> respondent just restores one cut, at least I'll know what's possible
> and how I might improve the results. I have worked as a recording
> engineer so the respondent does not need to worry about dealing with a
> technophobe or neophyte.
>
> Thanks!
>

Timmy,
What brand sound card are you using to record the one-off? If it's an
on-board chip, chances are that it's fairly noisy. If your recording
software has a Vu meter, what's the noise floor with the turntable running
but with the tonearm parked? If it's noisier than -70db or so, you'll start
removing music when you clean the track. Very hard to do a good joib with
OEM hardware.

I have some time to do a one-track restoration for you, I have a DAL card
and Sound Forge software. BTW, is the LP 33 1/3? How do you propose to
get the track to me, I'm in Pennsylvania?


--
Stephen Jaye, webmaster
alt.collecting.records
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 12:47:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.jazz,rec.music.collecting.vinyl (More info?)

As I read these posts a smile comes to my face as I realize I'm in the
presence of knowledge and experience MUCH deeper than mine. I'm tempted
to chant "I'm not worthy!" but I so greatly appreciate these responses
I'll try to keep up with you guys.

First, thank you for taking the time to reply, Scott.. I don't know
how to tell if it's an acetate though the word came to mind when I
first found the record. It's heavier than a standard commercial vinyl
LP, yet not as heavy as some disks I've found that I think have metal
cores. As to whether I pooched it using an LP stylus, all I can say is
that it probably got played on much worse home hi-fi equipment before
disappearing into his closet. I have a good microscope. Is there a
pattern I should look for? What sort of magnification should I use?

As I transferred it to computer I wondered if a more appropriate
cartridge or needle would be better but I'm so long past the days when
I had a grasp of that stuff, much less the actual hardware, I just
hoped I could "fix it in the mix". Would it be worth starting over and
having somone transcribe it?
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 12:53:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.jazz,rec.music.collecting.vinyl (More info?)

Thank you for replying, Steve. You've actually heard of MasterSound?
Was it indeed locaI to San Antonio or a national outfit.

I apologize for misleading you by using the term LP. By that I meant
simply a 33.3rpm disk similar to a commercial LP record. And there are
no tracks per se; it's all one long recording. There are two sides to
the record, different materal one ach, though no indication as to which
is side 1 vs side 2. Each side starts out quite noisy but after a
minute to two this settles down to a more predictable amount of clicks,
pops, etc.. The other issue I noticed is that the volume level declines
from the beginning to the end of a side, at least this is obvious when
I look at the waveform display in Audition.

Any clues yet from my replies here?
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 12:57:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.jazz,rec.music.collecting.vinyl (More info?)

In article <1116820028.475287.83490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Timmy <twlpclean@swbell.net> wrote:

> First, thank you for taking the time to reply, Scott.. I don't know
> how to tell if it's an acetate though the word came to mind when I
> first found the record. It's heavier than a standard commercial vinyl
> LP, yet not as heavy as some disks I've found that I think have metal
> cores.

It sounds like a dubplate... a one off vinyl disk. These can have a bit
of surface noise, but they are often microgroove and stereo. If it
sounds pretty good to start with, you have the right stylus size.

See ya
Steve

--
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
The Quest for the BEST HOTDOG in Los Angeles! http://www.hotdogspot.com/
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
Rediscovering great stuff from the past! http://www.vintagetips.com/
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 1:04:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.jazz,rec.music.collecting.vinyl (More info?)

Thank you for replying, Stephen. I played the disk on a small Denon
turntable with a Shure cartridge that was probably the best they
offered 20 years ago. It's connected to an Adcom pre-amp phono input
("hi MC/MM"), which then feeds into a Terratec DMX6fire sound card. I
suspect this stuff is pretty quiet for analog consumer equipment, and
given the rather low-fidelity and noise level of the record I can't
imagine this hardware is compromising it -- except for the
cartridge/needle.

So far I'm gathering from the comments that the transcription process
is one part; the software massaging is quite another.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 1:44:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.jazz,rec.music.collecting.vinyl (More info?)

Timmy <twlpclean@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>First, thank you for taking the time to reply, Scott.. I don't know
>how to tell if it's an acetate though the word came to mind when I
>first found the record. It's heavier than a standard commercial vinyl
>LP, yet not as heavy as some disks I've found that I think have metal
>cores.

If it has a metal core (and you can see the aluminum around the edge),
it is an acetate.

If it is heavy but flexible, it is a vinyl pressing. If it is heavy
but not flexible, it is a shellac pressing.

There are some other weird things out there, but those three are 90%
of what you'll see. And if it was made in 1962, it won't be shellac.

If it has a hand-written or typed label, it is almost certainly an acetate.

>As to whether I pooched it using an LP stylus, all I can say is
>that it probably got played on much worse home hi-fi equipment before
>disappearing into his closet. I have a good microscope. Is there a
>pattern I should look for? What sort of magnification should I use?

With a 75X microscope and oblique illumination (one of those 'high
intensity' desk lamps works fine for reflected illumination) you should
be able to see the groove in relief. The middle part of the LP groove
is about 1 mil, with the top of the groove being wider and the bottom
being narrower. If it's a transcription disc, it will be about twice
that wide. What you're looking for is whether the sides of the groove
are smooth down to the bottom, or whether they have been gouged to hell.
And whether the bottom is clean.

If you play a record with a wide groove, and you use an LP stylus, it
will just sit down at the bottom of the groove and scratch the hell out
of it. You get a lot of noise, not much signal, and if it's an acetate
(which is much softer than a pressing), you also damage it.

Get an LP pressing an and electric 78 pressing and look at them under
the same microscope to get a sense of what the two groove styles should
look like.

You also should be able to look at sharp bends in the groove and see
if the walls are scraped up at that point. Again, look at an LP and
compare it... if you play it on equipment that is mistracking you will
tear up the walls at points where the playback stylus can't follow the
groove. You'll first notice a little sibilance on voices, then after
a couple more plays the whole top end goes away and the midrange falls
apart into distortion.

>As I transferred it to computer I wondered if a more appropriate
>cartridge or needle would be better but I'm so long past the days when
>I had a grasp of that stuff, much less the actual hardware, I just
>hoped I could "fix it in the mix". Would it be worth starting over and
>having somone transcribe it?

Absolutely. Getting a good transcription is 90% of the job.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 3:37:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.jazz,rec.music.collecting.vinyl (More info?)

In article <1116820430.925288.311290@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Timmy <twlpclean@swbell.net> wrote:

> Thank you for replying, Steve. You've actually heard of MasterSound?
> Was it indeed locaI to San Antonio or a national outfit.

I believe they were related to Columbia records. A lot of Columbia
classical recordings were made in Mastersound studios in New York.

> I apologize for misleading you by using the term LP. By that I meant
> simply a 33.3rpm disk similar to a commercial LP record.

How long is each side?

See ya
Steve

--
VIP RECORDS: Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD in great sound
FREE MP3s OF COMPLETE SONGS http://www.vintageip.com/records/
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
The Quest for the BEST HOTDOG in Los Angeles! http://www.hotdogspot.com/
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
Rediscovering great stuff from the past! http://www.vintagetips.com/
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 3:41:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Timmy <twlpclean@swbell.net> wrote:

>... I don't know
> how to tell if it's an acetate

Have a look at the thickness of the centre hole and see if there is any
metal showing. "Acetates" and several other types of direct recording
blanks were usually coated onto a metal or glass substrate.

Put it in a sealed bag for a few days, then sniff as you open it. The
acrid smell of cellulose nitrate (so-called "acetate") is quite
unmistakeable.

Finally, wipe a spit-wetted finger over a bit of the surface that
doesn't matter (between inner grooves and label) and see if it rolls up
into globules. If it sinks in, the surface is probably gelatine, so
don't try to clean it with water!


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 3:41:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Adrian Tuddenham <poppy.uk@ukonline.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>Put it in a sealed bag for a few days, then sniff as you open it. The
>acrid smell of cellulose nitrate (so-called "acetate") is quite
>unmistakeable.

Actually, older lacquers were made from cellulose nitrate which was mixed
with camphor and/or castor bean oil to plasticize it. If you smell them,
the acrid smell you get is mostly camphor and castor.

Some time in the fifties, most folks changed over to cellulose triacetate,
which is more stable. These discs don't smell like anything, although if
they are starting to break down they can sometimes smell like vinegar.
(This is bad... if you have discs that smell this way they need to be
cleaned and put in a sealed container apart from all your other discs,
with a molecular sieve that will absorb the acetic acid).

If you order blanks from Transco today, what you get is aluminum base
with a nice thick and even layer of cellulose triacetate.

>Finally, wipe a spit-wetted finger over a bit of the surface that
>doesn't matter (between inner grooves and label) and see if it rolls up
>into globules. If it sinks in, the surface is probably gelatine, so
>don't try to clean it with water!

Gelatine? When did gelatine come into this discussion?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 2:26:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:


> If you order blanks from Transco today, what you get is aluminum base
> with a nice thick and even layer of cellulose triacetate.

My own experiments with ordinary "cellulose acetate" (probably
Cellulose Triacetate) showed that it tore rather than cutting smoothly.
There are accounts of successful recordings made on it by embossing, but
that is a very different process.

Is the Cellulose Triacetate on Transco blanks (presumably intended for
cutting, not embossing) a recent chemical development? I had always
believed nitrate was still in use.

>
> >Finally, wipe a spit-wetted finger over a bit of the surface that
> >doesn't matter (between inner grooves and label) and see if it rolls up
> >into globules. If it sinks in, the surface is probably gelatine, so
> >don't try to clean it with water!
>
> Gelatine? When did gelatine come into this discussion?

It is unusual, I agree, but I have come across examples of
gelatine-on-glass discs (and nitrate on galvanised iron and all sorts of
other combinations)

Although these only seemed to have been produced in the UK during WWII
(and not in any great quantity), I thought it worthwhile including a
warning just in case someone other than the original questioner read
this post and inadvertently destroyed a valuable recording because they
didn't know there had been alternatives to nitrate.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 6:46:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Adrian Tuddenham <poppy.uk@ukonline.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> If you order blanks from Transco today, what you get is aluminum base
>> with a nice thick and even layer of cellulose triacetate.
>
>My own experiments with ordinary "cellulose acetate" (probably
>Cellulose Triacetate) showed that it tore rather than cutting smoothly.
>There are accounts of successful recordings made on it by embossing, but
>that is a very different process.

Embossing is a weird thing that was basically used only for a couple of
consumer machines that used special blanks that were already pre-cut with
a groove, and a gadget which bent the top of the groove with modulation.
Those disks require a special oversized stylus that rides on the top of
the embossed groove.

Most discs were cut. In the thirties and forties, most of them were
cut with a cold stylus that tears through the material, which tends to
make for a ragged cut and a high noise floor. By the mid-forties, hot
stylus cutting was becoming a standard procedure and hot styli glide
more evenly through the lacquer. This gives you both lower noise floor
and better high frequency response.

>Is the Cellulose Triacetate on Transco blanks (presumably intended for
>cutting, not embossing) a recent chemical development? I had always
>believed nitrate was still in use.

Nitrate went out in the 1950s and was replaced with triacetate pretty
quickly. The swarf from triacetate won't explode, which makes it much
less enjoyable for practical jokes in ashtrays, but it also does not
outgas the plasticizer and shrink and crack like nitrocellulose does.

For a while in the fifties you could get diacetate blanks as well, and
I have never really dealt with these. Reportedly they are more subject
to vinegar syndrome.

>> >Finally, wipe a spit-wetted finger over a bit of the surface that
>> >doesn't matter (between inner grooves and label) and see if it rolls up
>> >into globules. If it sinks in, the surface is probably gelatine, so
>> >don't try to clean it with water!
>>
>> Gelatine? When did gelatine come into this discussion?
>
>It is unusual, I agree, but I have come across examples of
>gelatine-on-glass discs (and nitrate on galvanised iron and all sorts of
>other combinations)

The nitrate on iron discs were pretty common during WWII because of the
shortage of aluminum at that time. There are also some nitrate-on-glass
discs that I have seen from that era.

Don't even try and play iron discs with a moving-coil cartridge!

>Although these only seemed to have been produced in the UK during WWII
>(and not in any great quantity), I thought it worthwhile including a
>warning just in case someone other than the original questioner read
>this post and inadvertently destroyed a valuable recording because they
>didn't know there had been alternatives to nitrate.

That's cute. I have certainly never seen them in the US but I know what
to look for now.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 25, 2005 2:53:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

> Adrian Tuddenham <poppy.uk@ukonline.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If you order blanks from Transco today, what you get is aluminum base
> >> with a nice thick and even layer of cellulose triacetate.
> >
> >My own experiments with ordinary "cellulose acetate" (probably
> >Cellulose Triacetate) showed that it tore rather than cutting smoothly.
> >There are accounts of successful recordings made on it by embossing, but
> >that is a very different process.
>
> Embossing is a weird thing that was basically used only for a couple of
> consumer machines that used special blanks that were already pre-cut with
> a groove, and a gadget which bent the top of the groove with modulation.
> Those disks require a special oversized stylus that rides on the top of
> the embossed groove.

The acetate embossing system I came across was the "Recordgraph" which
used uncoated 35mm Safety Film as its recording medium The inventor
commented that a *cut* groove in Triacetate has similar audio
characteristics to one cut in sand.

(There were also embossed aluminium dics used in coin-operated recording
machines, where lack of cutting swarf was an important feature for
unattended operation - In the UK, these were designed and manufactured
in the 1930s by the Brecknell, Munro and Rogers company of Bristol and
could give remarkably good results)


[...]
>
> >Is the Cellulose Triacetate on Transco blanks (presumably intended for
> >cutting, not embossing) a recent chemical development? I had always
> >believed nitrate was still in use.
>
> Nitrate went out in the 1950s and was replaced with triacetate pretty
> quickly. The swarf from triacetate won't explode, which makes it much
> less enjoyable for practical jokes in ashtrays, but it also does not
> outgas the plasticizer and shrink and crack like nitrocellulose does.
>
> For a while in the fifties you could get diacetate blanks as well, and
> I have never really dealt with these. Reportedly they are more subject
> to vinegar syndrome.

I am amazed. Nitrate was used in the UK right up to the end of
mainstream disc recording (although it was usually called "Acetate"
because of the bad name Nitrate had acquired). I have never heard of
successful cutting of acetate until now.

Are you quite sure this really wasn't Nitrate being marketed as
something else? How was the tearing problem overcome? That seemed to
be regarded by UK recording engineers as an intractable barrier to the
use of Acetate, even in the 1960s.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
Anonymous
May 25, 2005 2:53:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Adrian Tuddenham <poppy.uk@ukonline.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>The acetate embossing system I came across was the "Recordgraph" which
>used uncoated 35mm Safety Film as its recording medium The inventor
>commented that a *cut* groove in Triacetate has similar audio
>characteristics to one cut in sand.

Yes, there were also some embossing systems used for dictation belts
as well.

>(There were also embossed aluminium dics used in coin-operated recording
>machines, where lack of cutting swarf was an important feature for
>unattended operation - In the UK, these were designed and manufactured
>in the 1930s by the Brecknell, Munro and Rogers company of Bristol and
>could give remarkably good results)

In the US there was at least one home recording machine that used these,
and I would not be surprised if it was for the same reason.

>> For a while in the fifties you could get diacetate blanks as well, and
>> I have never really dealt with these. Reportedly they are more subject
>> to vinegar syndrome.
>
>I am amazed. Nitrate was used in the UK right up to the end of
>mainstream disc recording (although it was usually called "Acetate"
>because of the bad name Nitrate had acquired). I have never heard of
>successful cutting of acetate until now.

I didn't actually start cutting discs until the late seventies, but I can
assure you that all the current production stuff is definitely not nitrate,
and it hasn't been since years before I was an intern. The guy whom I
interned with complained about how you couldn't get nitrate swarf for
practical jokes for many years. (There were still ashtrays in the
cutting room in the seventies, though.)

>Are you quite sure this really wasn't Nitrate being marketed as
>something else? How was the tearing problem overcome? That seemed to
>be regarded by UK recording engineers as an intractable barrier to the
>use of Acetate, even in the 1960s.

The tearing problem became moot when everyone went to hot stylus
operation, which in the US pretty much all happened by the late 1940s.
If conversion to hot stylus took longer in the UK, that might have explained
much of the reluctance to go to acetate. Even though hot stylus cutting
is a huge advance for a number of other reasons (like the better high
frequency detail).

Used to be there were even kits to convertr your Presto heads to hot
stylus. And I know in the UK that all the Grampian cutting heads I have
seen were equipped for hot styli.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
May 25, 2005 10:45:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 709jf$oak$1@panix2.panix.com...

> >(There were also embossed aluminium dics used in coin-operated recording
> >machines, where lack of cutting swarf was an important feature for
> >unattended operation - In the UK, these were designed and manufactured
> >in the 1930s by the Brecknell, Munro and Rogers company of Bristol and
> >could give remarkably good results)
>
> In the US there was at least one home recording machine that used these,
> and I would not be surprised if it was for the same reason.

I believe the portable disk recorder used for field recordings by Alan Lomax
and his associates worked this way as well.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
May 25, 2005 3:42:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Paul Stamler <pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote:
>"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:D 709jf$oak$1@panix2.panix.com...
>
>> >(There were also embossed aluminium dics used in coin-operated recording
>> >machines, where lack of cutting swarf was an important feature for
>> >unattended operation - In the UK, these were designed and manufactured
>> >in the 1930s by the Brecknell, Munro and Rogers company of Bristol and
>> >could give remarkably good results)
>>
>> In the US there was at least one home recording machine that used these,
>> and I would not be surprised if it was for the same reason.
>
>I believe the portable disk recorder used for field recordings by Alan Lomax
>and his associates worked this way as well.

The photos of Lomax that I have seen show an overhead arm recorder that
looks like a Presto. But he may well have used an embossing recorder
at some point, and I know he used tape when it became available.

The advantage of the embossing system is you don't need a leadscrew or
any such arrangement. You just drop the guide stylus in the existing
groove on the disc and go.
--scott


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"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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