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Advice on a good PA System

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Anonymous
May 21, 2005 2:56:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hey,
My band and I are looking into buying a PA system for rehearsal
purposes and maybe for small clubs. We would need 2 mics for vocals, 2
for kick and snare, 2 for overheads,2 for guitars, and maybe one for
bass. and The price range would be about $1200 US.

Can anyone tell me what would be a good system and if I'm taking the
right approach for counting the channels that would be needed. i have
no experience in live sound and would really appreciate the advice.

Thanks,
T

More about : advice good system

Anonymous
May 21, 2005 4:07:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

whitelightwhiteheat1978 wrote ...
> My band and I are looking into buying a PA system for rehearsal
> purposes and maybe for small clubs. We would need 2 mics for vocals,
> 2
> for kick and snare, 2 for overheads,2 for guitars, and maybe one for
> bass. and The price range would be about $1200 US.
>
> Can anyone tell me what would be a good system and if I'm taking the
> right approach for counting the channels that would be needed. i have
> no experience in live sound and would really appreciate the advice.

Note that there is a newsgroup specifically chartered for live-sound
reinforcement: news:alt.audio.pro.live-sound
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 2:13:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 21 May 2005 10:56:57 -0700, whitelightwhiteheat1978 wrote:

> Hey,
> My band and I are looking into buying a PA system for rehearsal purposes
> and maybe for small clubs. We would need 2 mics for vocals, 2 for kick
> and snare, 2 for overheads,2 for guitars, and maybe one for bass. and The
> price range would be about $1200 US.
>
> Can anyone tell me what would be a good system and if I'm taking the right
> approach for counting the channels that would be needed. i have no
> experience in live sound and would really appreciate the advice.

I can't imagine wanting guitars & snare (or even kick, really) in a
rehearsal PA. I wouldn't usually put guitars through the PA in a small
club either (unless either your amps are really tiny, or else your
definition of "small club" is drastically different than mine).
Related resources
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 6:04:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>My band and I are looking into buying a PA system for rehearsal
>purposes and maybe for small clubs. We would need 2 mics for vocals, 2
>for kick and snare, 2 for overheads,2 for guitars, and maybe one for
>bass. and The price range would be about $1200 US.
>
>Can anyone tell me what would be a good system and if I'm taking the
>right approach for counting the channels that would be needed. i have
>no experience in live sound and would really appreciate the advice.


Haven't the guitarists got amps already? They will probably be
plenty loud enough for a small club, let alone rehearsal.

What makes you think the drums need amplifying?

So it's only really the vocals you need to worry about.

Tip: Don't worry about the audience. They are unlikely to complain
you aren't loud enough! Set up all speakers (including vocals)
pointing at the band. Turn down until it stops hurting. If you get
feedback, turn down some more. Make sure the drummer accepts
responsibility for playing at an appropriate level. He doesn't need
more foldback, he needs to play quieter :-) Everyone needs to hear
everything - not just thrash away and expect amplification to cure the
problems.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 6:04:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <lp@laurenceNOSPAMpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:e701915ssciq8rescovovg36ehhlmr2a28@4ax.com...
>
>>My band and I are looking into buying a PA system for rehearsal
>>purposes and maybe for small clubs. We would need 2 mics for vocals,
>>2
>>for kick and snare, 2 for overheads,2 for guitars, and maybe one for
>>bass. and The price range would be about $1200 US.
>>
>>Can anyone tell me what would be a good system and if I'm taking the
>>right approach for counting the channels that would be needed. i have
>>no experience in live sound and would really appreciate the advice.
>
>
> Haven't the guitarists got amps already? They will probably be
> plenty loud enough for a small club, let alone rehearsal.
>
> What makes you think the drums need amplifying?
>
> So it's only really the vocals you need to worry about.
>
> Tip: Don't worry about the audience. They are unlikely to complain
> you aren't loud enough! Set up all speakers (including vocals)
> pointing at the band. Turn down until it stops hurting. If you get
> feedback, turn down some more. Make sure the drummer accepts
> responsibility for playing at an appropriate level. He doesn't need
> more foldback, he needs to play quieter :-) Everyone needs to hear
> everything - not just thrash away and expect amplification to cure the
> problems.

I love it! :-))
Nominated for the r.a.p hall of fame. (and the FAQ too?)
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 9:07:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Laurence Payne wrote:
>> My band and I are looking into buying a PA system for rehearsal
>> purposes and maybe for small clubs. We would need 2 mics for
>> vocals, 2 for kick and snare, 2 for overheads,2 for guitars, and
>> maybe one for bass. and The price range would be about $1200 US.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me what would be a good system and if I'm taking the
>> right approach for counting the channels that would be needed. i
>> have no experience in live sound and would really appreciate the
>> advice.
>
>
> Haven't the guitarists got amps already? They will probably be
> plenty loud enough for a small club, let alone rehearsal.
>
> What makes you think the drums need amplifying?
>
> So it's only really the vocals you need to worry about.

Ahhhmm...

A fully miced up band always sounds much, much better, pretty much
irrespective of the venue size. You can usually get a much better tone
on the drums for starters. Its not a matter of just volume. You get a
better spread of sound. This stereo bit, just don't work much for live
conditions. Without micing its harder to get a decent mix.

I always recommend micing up everything if you want a good sound, and
will do so as standard for a live venue. For rehearsals , it is a bit of
a hassle, so usually I won't bother, but I like to do at least one
rehearsal fully miced up to test the whole system and iron out the bugs.

Kevin Aylward
informationEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 10:24:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Kevin Aylward" <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote in message news:n%2ke.5265$iq5.2559@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Laurence Payne wrote:
> >> My band and I are looking into buying a PA system for rehearsal
> >> purposes and maybe for small clubs. We would need 2 mics for
> >> vocals, 2 for kick and snare, 2 for overheads,2 for guitars, and
> >> maybe one for bass. and The price range would be about $1200 US.
> >>
> >> Can anyone tell me what would be a good system and if I'm taking the
> >> right approach for counting the channels that would be needed. i
> >> have no experience in live sound and would really appreciate the
> >> advice.
> >
> >
> > Haven't the guitarists got amps already? They will probably be
> > plenty loud enough for a small club, let alone rehearsal.
> >
> > What makes you think the drums need amplifying?
> >
> > So it's only really the vocals you need to worry about.
>
> Ahhhmm...
>
> A fully miced up band always sounds much, much better, pretty much
> irrespective of the venue size. You can usually get a much better tone
> on the drums for starters. Its not a matter of just volume. You get a
> better spread of sound. This stereo bit, just don't work much for live
> conditions. Without micing its harder to get a decent mix.
>
> I always recommend micing up everything if you want a good sound, and
> will do so as standard for a live venue. For rehearsals , it is a bit of
> a hassle, so usually I won't bother, but I like to do at least one
> rehearsal fully miced up to test the whole system and iron out the bugs.
>
> Kevin Aylward


I tend to agree.

But why doesn't someone just tell this fellow that his budget will afford him
roughly the equivalent of one good power amp; that overheads are *totally*
unecessary; and that the moment he tries to place all of those items into a
mix, using any variation of a system that is 5+ times as expensive as the
stated budget, things will end up in a hefty state of disrepair in short order.
<etc., etc.>

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 3:37:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 22 May 2005 17:07:31 GMT, "Kevin Aylward"
<see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

>> Haven't the guitarists got amps already? They will probably be
>> plenty loud enough for a small club, let alone rehearsal.
>>
>> What makes you think the drums need amplifying?
>>
>> So it's only really the vocals you need to worry about.
>
>Ahhhmm...
>
>A fully miced up band always sounds much, much better, pretty much
>irrespective of the venue size. You can usually get a much better tone
>on the drums for starters. Its not a matter of just volume. You get a
>better spread of sound. This stereo bit, just don't work much for live
>conditions. Without micing its harder to get a decent mix.
>
>I always recommend micing up everything if you want a good sound, and
>will do so as standard for a live venue. For rehearsals , it is a bit of
>a hassle, so usually I won't bother, but I like to do at least one
>rehearsal fully miced up to test the whole system and iron out the bugs.

You're talking like a sound engineer who aims to produce a perfect
recording mix. These guys are musicians who want a good live
performance experience. The drums are probably too loud already.
Micing them is unlikely to make them softer :-)
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 7:41:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On Sun, 22 May 2005 17:07:31 GMT, "Kevin Aylward"
> <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> Haven't the guitarists got amps already? They will probably be
>>> plenty loud enough for a small club, let alone rehearsal.
>>>
>>> What makes you think the drums need amplifying?
>>>
>>> So it's only really the vocals you need to worry about.
>>
>> Ahhhmm...
>>
>> A fully miced up band always sounds much, much better, pretty much
>> irrespective of the venue size. You can usually get a much better
>> tone on the drums for starters. Its not a matter of just volume. You
>> get a better spread of sound. This stereo bit, just don't work much
>> for live conditions. Without micing its harder to get a decent mix.
>>
>> I always recommend micing up everything if you want a good sound, and
>> will do so as standard for a live venue. For rehearsals , it is a
>> bit of a hassle, so usually I won't bother, but I like to do at
>> least one rehearsal fully miced up to test the whole system and iron
>> out the bugs.
>
> You're talking like a sound engineer who aims to produce a perfect
> recording mix.

Ahmmmm...you obviously don't read many of my posts. From the response I
usually get from this group, I have to take that as a complement:-)

This is really quite ironic, nothing could be further from the truth as
to my approach to sound.

>These guys are musicians who want a good live
> performance experience.

As am I. Thats why I mic up the sound.

> The drums are probably too loud already.
> Micing them is unlikely to make them softer :-)

The drums may be too loud, depends on the player and his kit.

Kevin Aylward
informationEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 7:53:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Kevin Aylward" <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VWHke.91551$a9.18769@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> > The drums are probably too loud already.
> > Micing them is unlikely to make them softer :-)
>
> The drums may be too loud, depends on the player and his kit.
>
And putting mics on too loud drums will help the sound... how?

--
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc
Nashville, TN
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 8:22:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Dave Martin" <dmainc@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:i6Ike.7246$uR4.2971@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Kevin Aylward" <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:VWHke.91551$a9.18769@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> > > The drums are probably too loud already.
> > > Micing them is unlikely to make them softer :-)
> >
> > The drums may be too loud, depends on the player and his kit.
> >
> And putting mics on too loud drums will help the sound... how?


Sometimes it intimidates the player... sometimes in 'contains' the
player... sometimes it just works odd little miracles on dynamics
when they can hear the room instead of just their banging.

Do not try this with a $1200 PA system.

;-)

DM
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 8:22:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <AxIke.29$SV3.7@trnddc03>,
"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote:

> "Dave Martin" <dmainc@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:i6Ike.7246$uR4.2971@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Kevin Aylward" <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:VWHke.91551$a9.18769@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >
> > > > The drums are probably too loud already.
> > > > Micing them is unlikely to make them softer :-)
> > >
> > > The drums may be too loud, depends on the player and his kit.
> > >
> > And putting mics on too loud drums will help the sound... how?
>
>
> Sometimes it intimidates the player... sometimes in 'contains' the
> player... sometimes it just works odd little miracles on dynamics
> when they can hear the room instead of just their banging.
>
> Do not try this with a $1200 PA system.
>
> ;-)
>
> DM
>

And there's always active noise cancelling. (If only...)

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 9:12:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 5/24/05 12:31 PM, in article jay-5F6225.09314824052005@news.stanford.edu,
"Jay Kadis" <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote:

> In article <AxIke.29$SV3.7@trnddc03>,
> "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote:
>
>> "Dave Martin" <dmainc@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:i6Ike.7246$uR4.2971@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>> "Kevin Aylward" <see_website@anasoft.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:VWHke.91551$a9.18769@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>
>>>>> The drums are probably too loud already.
>>>>> Micing them is unlikely to make them softer :-)
>>>>
>>>> The drums may be too loud, depends on the player and his kit.
>>>>
>>> And putting mics on too loud drums will help the sound... how?
>>
>>
>> Sometimes it intimidates the player... sometimes in 'contains' the
>> player... sometimes it just works odd little miracles on dynamics
>> when they can hear the room instead of just their banging.
>>
>> Do not try this with a $1200 PA system.
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> DM
>>
>
> And there's always active noise cancelling. (If only...)

Well they Do have the shaped-pattern bass systems...
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 9:18:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:31:48 -0700, Jay Kadis wrote:

> And there's always active noise cancelling. (If only...)

This works pretty well for that...
http://www.slugger.com/
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 9:18:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <pan.2005.05.24.17.18.54.409784@control.gov>,
Agent 86 <maxwellsmart@control.gov> wrote:

> On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:31:48 -0700, Jay Kadis wrote:
>
> > And there's always active noise cancelling. (If only...)
>
> This works pretty well for that...
> http://www.slugger.com/
>

Unless that's what the drummer is using for sticks.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Anonymous
May 25, 2005 1:47:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:23:50 -0700, Jay Kadis wrote:

> In article <pan.2005.05.24.17.18.54.409784@control.gov>,
> Agent 86 <maxwellsmart@control.gov> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:31:48 -0700, Jay Kadis wrote:
>>
>> > And there's always active noise cancelling. (If only...)
>>
>> This works pretty well for that...
>> http://www.slugger.com/
>>
>>
> Unless that's what the drummer is using for sticks.

To misquote Todd Rundgren, "I just want to bang on the drummer all
day".
!