YAMAHA PM5D For Broadcast - Opinions

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We are thinking of installing a Yamaha PM-5d for a TV news studio.

Does anyone have any opinions on the PM-%d in general, and any insight
into this specific application.

Input feeds are 3 VTRs, a Media Server, up to 6 mics on the floor,
Telos and insert studios. ( We have lots of phone guests, and lots of
insert studio feeds )


Also if any one has any thoughts about other boards in the same price
range, that could get the job done.

Thanks
Nick

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In article <1118325859.279054.275670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"nmm" <voxman@arvotek.net> wrote:

> We are thinking of installing a Yamaha PM-5d for a TV news studio.
>
> Does anyone have any opinions on the PM-%d in general, and any insight
> into this specific application.
>
> Input feeds are 3 VTRs, a Media Server, up to 6 mics on the floor,
> Telos and insert studios. ( We have lots of phone guests, and lots of
> insert studio feeds )

The PM5D is very flexible console, and perhaps a bit more horsepower
than you really need for the application. Just curious as to what the
total input and output counts are, and how many faders do you think you
need a hand on?

> Also if any one has any thoughts about other boards in the same price
> range, that could get the job done.

I don't know if there is anything else in the digital realm, in that
price range, but you may be able to accomplish what you need for a lot
less money with a DM2000.

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Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article <1118325859.279054.275670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> voxman@arvotek.net writes:
>
> > We are thinking of installing a Yamaha PM-5d for a TV news studio.
>
> > Input feeds are 3 VTRs, a Media Server, up to 6 mics on the floor,
> > Telos and insert studios. ( We have lots of phone guests, and lots of
> > insert studio feeds )
>
> A live sound console makes a certain degree of sense for that
> applicaiton since you're feeding a bunch of stereo sorces which might
> have their own variations on a basic mix. Of course it has far more
> capability than your needs require, but if you have room and budget
> for it, it might work.
>
> Have you looked at the Mackie TT24?
>


We need a console with a really good "preamp" stage, as the show is
mostly carried on Radio. Right now the audio chain is weak ie: Mackie
32x 8 and a Mackie 1604.

It seems they have the budget to spend on a console the likes of the
"PM5D". Others im considering ( but haven't priced yet ) would be the
Innovason SY-48 , and the Sony DMX-R100 ( which is a lot cheaper than
the PM5D ) . I'm not sure what else comes in around $50K. When i got
involved with this project they already had the PM5D on the drawings,
now they want some more opinions.

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My feeling, having used the smaller Yamaha consoles, is that the ability to
jump between scene presets could be a huge advantage in a broadcast environment,
but that the clumsy routing is a definite disadvantage. It might be worth
renting an 02r for the day and seeing how it feels, although the control
layout on the PM5D is supposed to be a lot better.

My feeling is that given your description you should look at the Cadac
S-series consoles. The layout is good, there is no central computer core
to be a single failure point, they sound great and feel good. And,
because they are conventional analogue architecture, they are extremely
expandable. If you decide you want more channels, you just fill out the
frame until you have as many as you want. If your frame is too small,
you trade it in for a bigger one and keep the individual channel strips.

But, one of the things that the digital consoles might buy you is the
ability to get more input channels into the same amount of physical
desk space, and I know console space in the control room is always tight.

Did I mention I really like the Cadac?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article <1118366519.712930.281390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> voxman@arvotek.net writes:
>
> > We need a console with a really good "preamp" stage, as the show is
> > mostly carried on Radio. Right now the audio chain is weak ie: Mackie
> > 32x 8 and a Mackie 1604.
>
> What's the problem? I would think that what you have now would be fine
> for radio. I don't see any direct relation between a good "preamp"
> stage and radio broadcast.


The main voice on the show is one person, that microphone, and it's
audio chain is the first line of quality that needs to be improved.

This goes out on radio and TV, so what are using now, though it works,
doesn't have enough fidelity for what soem people who want to syndicate
the show demand.



>
> > It seems they have the budget to spend on a console the likes of the
> > "PM5D". Others im considering ( but haven't priced yet ) would be the
> > Innovason SY-48 , and the Sony DMX-R100 ( which is a lot cheaper than
> > the PM5D ) .
>
> Sounds like they might have more money than brains. What does the
> station's chief engineer think? (or is that you?)
>
>

Yeah that's me.

I'd go with the Innovason, I'm going to push for that. I've worked the
Yamaha PM4000 and PM3800 a few times, ( the guys from Yamaha keep
comparing the PM5D to the PM4000 ) and always liked Soundcrafts better.


I was at an AES demo of the PM1D, the Digico D5, and the Innovason
SY48, and the SY48 was the only one that really impressed me.

Someone floated the idea of a Wheatstone around with the management
here, but it was too expensive. I'd figure a Euphonix would also be out
of our reach, and from trucks i've worked on with Euphonix consoles,
the A1 follows that truck, because the boards are counter-intuative.



>

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nmm <voxman@arvotek.net> wrote:
Kludge wrote:
>>
>> Did I mention I really like the Cadac?
>
>Do you have a sales - dealer link or sales, or any such info for the
>CADEC?

Masque Sound in NYC is probably the primary US dealer, but they have
a web site at www.cadac-sound.com. For the most part they are trying to
sell the big touring consoles so they don't stock too many of the smaller
broadcast consoles in the US.

One of the Latin American broadcast networks has one of them in their
truck and it's a real delight at music festivals.

Oh yes, and they'll be showing the things (including the baby S-type)
at the AES show this fall, if you can wait that long to touch one.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"nmm" <voxman@arvotek.net> wrote:
>
> Also if any one has any thoughts about other boards in the same price
> range, that could get the job done.



I don't know anything about the PM5D, but you owe it to yourself to look
at Euphonix before you commit to anything. Their "Air" board was the
first console that ever made me think digital might actually be
practical for live TV. That particular unit is out of the stated price
range, but by now they may have something else that'll fit.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

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Scott Dorsey wrote:

<Snip>
>
> My feeling is that given your description you should look at the Cadac
> S-series consoles. The layout is good, there is no central computer core
> to be a single failure point, they sound great and feel good. And,
> because they are conventional analogue architecture, they are extremely
> expandable. If you decide you want more channels, you just fill out the
> frame until you have as many as you want. If your frame is too small,
> you trade it in for a bigger one and keep the individual channel strips.

Unless you are dead set on digital, I would second this... I was going to
suggest CADAC but Scott beat me to it. The quality is second to none and I
have never heard anyone complain about their service.

There is of course another route which may be appropriate, (depends on what
you are doing), which would be to look at a matrix from someone like SAS
and a control surface. This has the advantage that it is easy to automate
and seems to be the way a lot of radio operations are moving.
Just another possibility....

> But, one of the things that the digital consoles might buy you is the
> ability to get more input channels into the same amount of physical
> desk space, and I know console space in the control room is always tight.

There is that, but I would also comment that the PM-5D does not look to be
that easy to lock down (as in protect against the muppets of this world),
and I could easily see the "I pushed something (but I don't know what) and
now we are dead in the water.." conversation becoming boring fast!

This is not an issue if there is a small defined crew who are the ONLY
people to touch the console, but if visiting engineers will be using it
something where at least all the routing is on display might be good.

This is one area where the control surface and external router tends to be a
big win.

> Did I mention I really like the Cadac?

Amen to that!

I do wonder about the problem as stated however, sure the Mackie is not
exactly a great desk, but I cannot help wondering if spending some cash on
room acoustics, an outboard preamp for the money channel and a better mic
may be a better investment (The room and the mic probably first).

If all that has been done, then look to the desk, especially if you make
much use of the EQ which I loathe on those boards.

Regards, Dan.