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Small room design/treatment

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Anonymous
June 10, 2005 8:58:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi all,

I've been lurking here a good long while now, and want to thank the
many who have posted sensible information and good web links; lots of
interesting sites to surf! I've also picked up some good books: one of
Alton Everest's, and Cooper's book on small recording studio design, and
a couple of Philip Newell's books.

Music has been a life-long love affair for me. In my teens i always
thought i'd wind up working in a studio, then in my early 20s that i'd
make a career as a violinist, but wound up doing software development
for economic and marital reasons :-) I've played in one ensemble or
another most of my life, and have sporadically done recording, always in
some borrowed space. My home studio is housed in a small bedroom and
consists of a DAW put together with parts from NewEgg running Adobe
Audition, and a MOTU 828mkII.

I'm now in a position to build a proper small project / tracking /
recording studio to support what i really love to do, and plan to
eventually retire into performing and recording. I play a variety of
bowed and plucked stringed instruments, and want to be able to track
them as well as rehearse and record small ensembles. Genres range from
classical to bluegrass to alt country to progressive rock.

I'm particularly intrigued by a room Philip Newell describes in
chapter 8 of Recording Spaces. This is a real room in a studio in
Lisbon, Portugal (Tcha Tcha Tcha Studios). From the scale given in the
diagrams, the room appears to be approximately 8'-6" x 11'-0", and it
has been designed with a compound sloped wall (it is Studio 2 in Figure
8.4, with subsequent discussions and details of the construction, for
those of you who may happen to own a copy of this book). Mr. Newell
calls this the "Geddes approach" after work done some years ago by a Dr.
Earl Geddes (who seems to specialize in loudspeaker design these days),
and suggests that it has many advantages for a small room.

Basically, the room has a live floor and a live wall that is sloped
both vertically and horizontally (appears to be 10 degrees +/- though
the slope angles are not specified in the text). The floor and sloped
wall are panelled with wood, and the remaining walls and ceiling are
quite absorbant. The sloped wall itself is constructed to serve as a
bass trap, and due to the small room size, low bass is below the room
cutoff frequency. The live wall and floor give early reflections,
imparting a measure of "liveness" to the apparent sound of the room, but
the compound sloping of the non-parallel wall, together with the
aborbant side walls and trap, rapidly absorb secondary reflections.

This seems like a good option for inclusion in a small studio, as the
room appears to be useful both as a drum booth and as a tracking and
vocal room (mic placements for both are suggested). From Mr. Newell's
anecdotal comments, the owners of the studio like the room and have
gotten much use from it. I have about 900 square feet altogether to
work with (with 11' feet of vertical space), hence the appeal of a small
room like this that could be used as a tracking/drum booth.

Has anyone here seen or used such a room? Anyone familiar with this
approach from a technical/acoustics perspective?

--
thanks,
miner49er
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 12:44:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Try posting your question over at

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php?sid=ead1683...

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php?sid=ead1683...

Good people, good discussion

Don


"miner49er" <miner49er@caverninacanyon.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96719F813F3Fdts12357111317@140.99.99.130...
> Hi all,
>
> I've been lurking here a good long while now, and want to thank the
> many who have posted sensible information and good web links; lots of
> interesting sites to surf! I've also picked up some good books: one of
> Alton Everest's, and Cooper's book on small recording studio design, and
> a couple of Philip Newell's books.
>
> Music has been a life-long love affair for me. In my teens i always
> thought i'd wind up working in a studio, then in my early 20s that i'd
> make a career as a violinist, but wound up doing software development
> for economic and marital reasons :-) I've played in one ensemble or
> another most of my life, and have sporadically done recording, always in
> some borrowed space. My home studio is housed in a small bedroom and
> consists of a DAW put together with parts from NewEgg running Adobe
> Audition, and a MOTU 828mkII.
>
> I'm now in a position to build a proper small project / tracking /
> recording studio to support what i really love to do, and plan to
> eventually retire into performing and recording. I play a variety of
> bowed and plucked stringed instruments, and want to be able to track
> them as well as rehearse and record small ensembles. Genres range from
> classical to bluegrass to alt country to progressive rock.
>
> I'm particularly intrigued by a room Philip Newell describes in
> chapter 8 of Recording Spaces. This is a real room in a studio in
> Lisbon, Portugal (Tcha Tcha Tcha Studios). From the scale given in the
> diagrams, the room appears to be approximately 8'-6" x 11'-0", and it
> has been designed with a compound sloped wall (it is Studio 2 in Figure
> 8.4, with subsequent discussions and details of the construction, for
> those of you who may happen to own a copy of this book). Mr. Newell
> calls this the "Geddes approach" after work done some years ago by a Dr.
> Earl Geddes (who seems to specialize in loudspeaker design these days),
> and suggests that it has many advantages for a small room.
>
> Basically, the room has a live floor and a live wall that is sloped
> both vertically and horizontally (appears to be 10 degrees +/- though
> the slope angles are not specified in the text). The floor and sloped
> wall are panelled with wood, and the remaining walls and ceiling are
> quite absorbant. The sloped wall itself is constructed to serve as a
> bass trap, and due to the small room size, low bass is below the room
> cutoff frequency. The live wall and floor give early reflections,
> imparting a measure of "liveness" to the apparent sound of the room, but
> the compound sloping of the non-parallel wall, together with the
> aborbant side walls and trap, rapidly absorb secondary reflections.
>
> This seems like a good option for inclusion in a small studio, as the
> room appears to be useful both as a drum booth and as a tracking and
> vocal room (mic placements for both are suggested). From Mr. Newell's
> anecdotal comments, the owners of the studio like the room and have
> gotten much use from it. I have about 900 square feet altogether to
> work with (with 11' feet of vertical space), hence the appeal of a small
> room like this that could be used as a tracking/drum booth.
>
> Has anyone here seen or used such a room? Anyone familiar with this
> approach from a technical/acoustics perspective?
>
> --
> thanks,
> miner49er
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 1:50:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Miner,

> the room appears to be approximately 8'-6" x 11'-0" <

I have to tell you, that's awfully small for either recording or mixing.
Yes, you could probably get good results in a room that size with a huge
amount of absorption and especially bass trapping. But if you have more
floor space than that available (you said 900 square feet), you'll do well
to use as much of that as possible. What are your outer dimensions? If you
have 21 by 15 feet at your disposal, see this article from EQ magazine, now
on my company's site:

www.realtraps.com/art_studio.htm

--Ethan
Anonymous
June 11, 2005 5:20:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Ethan,

Thank you very much for responding! I've enjoyed your website and
found a lot of interesting things there to read.

I neglected to mention that this would be one of 3 rooms. My current
plans also call for a 13 x 19 main studio A, and a control room that is
actually quite similar to the one in the article you cited, though a
little smaller (around 1650 cubic feet). I plan to float the rooms
using techniques described in several of the books on studio design i've
studied.

The particular room i was describing would be used for vocal or
instrumental tracking, and as a drum isolation room. I do understand
the need for a great deal of absorption and bass trapping; the double-
sloped wall should hopefully serve well in the latter capacity.

--
thanks,
miner49er


"Ethan Winer" <ethanw at ethanwiner dot com> wrote in news:WK-
dnUB2HaPxcjTfRVn-rw@giganews.com:

I have to tell you, that's awfully small for either recording or mixing.
Yes, you could probably get good results in a room that size with a huge
amount of absorption and especially bass trapping. But if you have more
floor space than that available (you said 900 square feet), you'll do
well
to use as much of that as possible. What are your outer dimensions? If
you
have 21 by 15 feet at your disposal, see this article from EQ magazine,
now
on my company's site:

> www.realtraps.com/art_studio.htm
!