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How Do You Deal With A BIG-Mouth Singer?

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Anonymous
June 19, 2005 10:36:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I am recording a female vocalist in my home studio. She is a
14-year-old with comparatively little professional studio experience.

Her mother wants her to do a vocal demo so she can have something to
market herself with.

The problem is that this girl has NO control over her dynamics. When
she sings softly or at a moderate level, I can record her fine, with a
nice clean signal and good presence. But the problem is that this girl
rarely STAYS at that moderate level. She likes to get EXTREMELY
dramatic with her singing, especially on the higher notes, where she
just BELTS it out, easily overloading my mic and preamp! She seems to
think that in order to reach ANY high note, you have to fill your lungs
to capacity and let your voice fly out with enough volume and force to
flatten Hiroshima! I'm not kidding--this girl is L-O-U-D.

This is driving me crazy, because I cannot seem to get her to stop
doing this, and it's making it very difficult for me to get a "clean"
take. This girl has been pumped full of ego-inflating praise, thanks to
her mom, and the girl disregards my suggestions--she's kind of got the
beginnings of "diva-itis" and seems to think she knows all about
singing already. I frankly think that her mom has instructed her to
sing as loud as possible in order to be more "impressive", and she's
taken this to heart.

During our session, I kept having to move her further away from the mic
(AKG 414) in order to minimize the distortion, but then her voice lost
a lot of definition and sounded noticeably less distinct in the mix. I
was trying everything to get a nice "up front" sound for all of her
different volume levels. Geez, I even had her lean in for the lower
parts and then straighten up for the loud parts! She looked like one of
those goofy plastic birds you buy at a gift shop that rocks back and
forth and pretends to drink water!

What can I do to get a good recording out of this girl...or does she
simply need to get her vocal technique together before attempting to do
any more recording? She has a very good voice, but I have -never- had
so much trouble getting a good recording from a vocalist! Why does her
"acting" have to be so "over the top"?

Or is there something technical that I can/should do? I'm fully
prepared to take any blame for this problem, but I am inclined to think
that a singer should have better control over dynamics than this girl
has. What do you all think?

More about : deal big mouth singer

Anonymous
June 20, 2005 1:34:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Not sure if anyone has said this , but working in the OZ radio industry
for many many years , I've come across the same problem. My solution
was / is to turn up his or her headphones. The louder the "cans" are I
find the "softer" the performer sings. And of course automate/compress
etc. Cheers.
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 2:05:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

EADGBE <hwbosshoss@aol.com> wrote:
>market herself with.
>
>The problem is that this girl has NO control over her dynamics. When
>she sings softly or at a moderate level, I can record her fine, with a
>nice clean signal and good presence. But the problem is that this girl
>rarely STAYS at that moderate level. She likes to get EXTREMELY
>dramatic with her singing, especially on the higher notes, where she
>just BELTS it out, easily overloading my mic and preamp! She seems to
>think that in order to reach ANY high note, you have to fill your lungs
>to capacity and let your voice fly out with enough volume and force to
>flatten Hiroshima! I'm not kidding--this girl is L-O-U-D.

1. RE-20. Keep it at a good distance. Keep the levels down so it never
overloads. If you have to use a pad on the mike, use it.

2. MAYBE consider using two mikes, one close and one far, which allows
you to switch between the two.

3. LOTS of manual gainriding, plus maybe some compression.

4. An afternoon with a vocal coach.

>This is driving me crazy, because I cannot seem to get her to stop
>doing this, and it's making it very difficult for me to get a "clean"
>take. This girl has been pumped full of ego-inflating praise, thanks to
>her mom, and the girl disregards my suggestions--she's kind of got the
>beginnings of "diva-itis" and seems to think she knows all about
>singing already. I frankly think that her mom has instructed her to
>sing as loud as possible in order to be more "impressive", and she's
>taken this to heart.

You can get her an afternoon with her mother out of the studio, and a
vocal coach in the studio. You can put a big VU meter up front of her
and tell her to sing to the meter. It will take her a _long_ time to
learn to do it right but when she does it'll help.

>During our session, I kept having to move her further away from the mic
>(AKG 414) in order to minimize the distortion, but then her voice lost
>a lot of definition and sounded noticeably less distinct in the mix. I
>was trying everything to get a nice "up front" sound for all of her
>different volume levels. Geez, I even had her lean in for the lower
>parts and then straighten up for the loud parts! She looked like one of
>those goofy plastic birds you buy at a gift shop that rocks back and
>forth and pretends to drink water!

If you have distortion on a 414, you have the gain staging set up wrong.
Use a pad and just keep the levels down. This is the modern digital
world... you can leave 30 dB of headroom on the mike and not be overwhelmed
with noise.

You may find the RE-20 is a better mike than the 414 on people who cannot
stay in one place, and it sounds like getting her moving around will be
an advantage.

>What can I do to get a good recording out of this girl...or does she
>simply need to get her vocal technique together before attempting to do
>any more recording? She has a very good voice, but I have -never- had
>so much trouble getting a good recording from a vocalist! Why does her
>"acting" have to be so "over the top"?

She does need to get her vocal technique together before attempting
any recording, but she won't. Which means you're probably going to
have to deal with it.

>Or is there something technical that I can/should do? I'm fully
>prepared to take any blame for this problem, but I am inclined to think
>that a singer should have better control over dynamics than this girl
>has. What do you all think?

I think you have a gain control, and you can ride it up and down, and you
have plenty of headroom so clipping should never be an issue. You will
have to do a _lot_ of riding up and down, but that's okay if you are
billing by the hour.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Related resources
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 5:58:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"EADGBE" <hwbosshoss@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1119231362.571497.180020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> This is driving me crazy, because I cannot seem to get her to stop
> doing this, and it's making it very difficult for me to get a "clean"
> take. This girl has been pumped full of ego-inflating praise, thanks to
> her mom, and the girl disregards my suggestions--she's kind of got the
> beginnings of "diva-itis" and seems to think she knows all about
> singing already. I frankly think that her mom has instructed her to
> sing as loud as possible in order to be more "impressive", and she's
> taken this to heart.
>

Tell her she will damage her vocal chords if she continues to sing like that
and that it wouldn't be fair to the world to be deprived of her (surely)
lengthy recording career. Being a good producer is as much psychology and
technology.
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 6:16:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Singing loud is sometimes necessary, that is her voice? I don't know I
haven't heard it! If she sings just in a room does she sound good when
belting out? Singing loud doesn't damage your voice if it's done with proper
technique, and if it sounds good... And face it some people have loud
voices. What she needs to do is learn proper mic technique. Back off the mic
for the loud parts. If her mic technique is making her look like those
birds...there is something wrong here. you can have like a loud phrase where
you back off. is she singing soft loud soft loud in the space of a second? I
highly doubt it!

Sometimes even for the loud parts lower the gain on the pre! Ride the gain
if you need to. Know when she belts out to do this. Also the 414 B-uls is a
very "jumpy" for dynamics like that. I got the Jim williams mod and it
became really smoother, almost sounding like there was soft compression
going on, it wasn't as "jumpy". I noticed a really big difference for that
with his mod. or use a different mic. the 414 uls is not forgiving for jumpy
dynamics. Tube mics are better for jumpy dynamics it will sound smoother.
then go into a good compressor. You don't mention your vocal chain! Use
compression when recording her or even limiting just to tame the loud passes
and compress more at mixdown.

A combo of all of these things should help.


"EADGBE" <hwbosshoss@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1119231362.571497.180020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I am recording a female vocalist in my home studio. She is a
> 14-year-old with comparatively little professional studio experience.
>
> Her mother wants her to do a vocal demo so she can have something to
> market herself with.
>
> The problem is that this girl has NO control over her dynamics. When
> she sings softly or at a moderate level, I can record her fine, with a
> nice clean signal and good presence. But the problem is that this girl
> rarely STAYS at that moderate level. She likes to get EXTREMELY
> dramatic with her singing, especially on the higher notes, where she
> just BELTS it out, easily overloading my mic and preamp! She seems to
> think that in order to reach ANY high note, you have to fill your lungs
> to capacity and let your voice fly out with enough volume and force to
> flatten Hiroshima! I'm not kidding--this girl is L-O-U-D.
>
> This is driving me crazy, because I cannot seem to get her to stop
> doing this, and it's making it very difficult for me to get a "clean"
> take. This girl has been pumped full of ego-inflating praise, thanks to
> her mom, and the girl disregards my suggestions--she's kind of got the
> beginnings of "diva-itis" and seems to think she knows all about
> singing already. I frankly think that her mom has instructed her to
> sing as loud as possible in order to be more "impressive", and she's
> taken this to heart.
>
> During our session, I kept having to move her further away from the mic
> (AKG 414) in order to minimize the distortion, but then her voice lost
> a lot of definition and sounded noticeably less distinct in the mix. I
> was trying everything to get a nice "up front" sound for all of her
> different volume levels. Geez, I even had her lean in for the lower
> parts and then straighten up for the loud parts! She looked like one of
> those goofy plastic birds you buy at a gift shop that rocks back and
> forth and pretends to drink water!
>
> What can I do to get a good recording out of this girl...or does she
> simply need to get her vocal technique together before attempting to do
> any more recording? She has a very good voice, but I have -never- had
> so much trouble getting a good recording from a vocalist! Why does her
> "acting" have to be so "over the top"?
>
> Or is there something technical that I can/should do? I'm fully
> prepared to take any blame for this problem, but I am inclined to think
> that a singer should have better control over dynamics than this girl
> has. What do you all think?
>
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 11:37:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

EADGBE wrote:
> I am recording a female vocalist in my home studio. She is
a
> 14-year-old with comparatively little professional studio
experience.
>
> Her mother wants her to do a vocal demo so she can have
something to
> market herself with.
>
> The problem is that this girl has NO control over her
dynamics. When
> she sings softly or at a moderate level, I can record her
fine, with a
> nice clean signal and good presence. But the problem is
that this
> girl rarely STAYS at that moderate level. She likes to get
EXTREMELY
> dramatic with her singing, especially on the higher notes,
where she
> just BELTS it out, easily overloading my mic and preamp!

Are you overloading the preamp? Probably.

Do you have your mic's gain turned *all the way down*? Have
you tried using the 414's internal attenuator? What preamp
are you using, anyway?

>During our session, I kept having to move her further away
from the mic
>(AKG 414) in order to minimize the distortion, but then her
voice lost
> a lot of definition and sounded noticeably less distinct
in the mix.

Proximity effect loss and build up of room reverberation,
anybody? I'm told that a lot of the Detroit recordings by
Motown were done with mics up to 4' from the vocalists. Of
course that was in a relatively dead studio. And, the goal
was not a really tight sound in many cases.

One of the first thing that AKG says about this mic is that
it is a high-sensitivity mic.

http://www.akg.com/products//powerslave,id,782,pid,782,...

The first thing on the page:

"High sensitivity and extremely low self noise"

That literally means that with a loud source and its
internal attenuators turned off, you can probably drive a
line-level input directly with the mic.

However, this is actually a very flexible mic, given that it
has internal pads.

Are you using the mic's internal pads? On its lowest
sensitivity this mic is rated at something like 158 dB with
relatively low distortion.

Do you realize how %$#!! *LOUD* 158 dB is?

There is zero chance that a human could create a sound this
loud with their voice! 130 dB at an inch or two, yes but
not 158 dB. Therefore, I seriously doubt you're clipping out
the mic if you have it adjusted properly.

It seems to me like there is no reason to have clipping
problems with this mic and any reasonable preamp. It's all a
matter of adjustment.

What have I done when I'v had vocalists that ran away with
levels? First, I've recorded them with lots of headroom and
a good audio interface that isn't excessively noisy with
smaller signals.

Then, I've used the enveloping capabilities of
Audition/CoolEdit to simply level things out.

20-20 hindsight is pretty good! ;-)

I just drew a gain envelope that attenuated the vocal signal
as required to give a useful range of amplitudes. Using
expanded time scale editing techniques, I can simulate an
intelligent limiter with nearly instantaneous attack, and
any desired release characteristic. No human mixer working
in real time can equal the speed and dynamic range of good
software with a skilled operator.

I've had no problems getting undistorted recordings,
well-leveled with very loud and dynamic voices miced very
tight.

I have to admit that a person who is singing very loud
changes the character of their voice. When leveled out this
can result in somewhat unnatural-sounding results.

Please see other poster's comments about using monitoring
and training to tame this singer's voice by modifying her
behavior.
June 20, 2005 1:28:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

/snip/

> There could be worse things than teenage-diva-itis.
/snip/



Though not a lot of things ;-)

Bob
June 20, 2005 2:38:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

EADGBE wrote:
> I am recording a female vocalist in my home studio. She is a
> 14-year-old with comparatively little professional studio experience.
>
> Her mother wants her to do a vocal demo so she can have something to
> market herself with.
>
> The problem is that this girl has NO control over her dynamics. When
> she sings softly or at a moderate level, I can record her fine, with a
> nice clean signal and good presence. But the problem is that this girl
> rarely STAYS at that moderate level. She likes to get EXTREMELY
> dramatic with her singing, especially on the higher notes, where she
> just BELTS it out, easily overloading my mic and preamp! She seems to
> think that in order to reach ANY high note, you have to fill your lungs
> to capacity and let your voice fly out with enough volume and force to
> flatten Hiroshima! I'm not kidding--this girl is L-O-U-D.

A good lesson if you could manage it, would be to get her involved in a
stage production without any amplification (and preferably in a big
hall, doing shows on an intensive basis - ie 2 or so a day for a week).
Having to get the quiet singing the same distance as the boisterous
stuff will improve most peoples dynamics unless they really are
hopelessly bad singers.

If she is pushing her voice to high volume with a bad technique, she
will get a seriously sore throat in the first week as well, and you can
explain to her that a powerful voice does not mean loud, it means well
projected.

Voice coaching sounds like a must here as well. The lung filling to
reach the high notes is indicative of someone singing out of their
range, and forcing their voice to do things it is not cut out for. You
could try getting her some lower material to sing, or transpose the
material she has down a notch, and point out that being female does not
confer instant ability to sing in the Soprano vocal range. This tendency
if not addressed *will* ruin her voice very quickly.

Otherwise, get a good compressor and try not to let her get too close to
your mic's...:-)
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 3:08:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Once I had an opera singer so loud that my Rode NT2 could not handle
it. Backing up was the solution back then. My guess is the lack of
definition by backing her from the mic is partially caused by
reflections of the room, see if it helps to hang a few blankets around
as padding to reduce room reflections:

-----------------------------------------------------blanket
*LOUD* girl <--- plenty of distance ---> mic
-----------------------------------------------------blanket

So much for a possible technical solution. I did however like the
headphone tip given earlier because it solves the problem at the source
;) 

Cheers,
Marc
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 10:20:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 958a7$bnn$1@panix2.panix.com...
> EADGBE <hwbosshoss@aol.com> wrote:
> >market herself with.
> >
> >The problem is that this girl has NO control over her dynamics. When
> >she sings softly or at a moderate level, I can record her fine, with a
> >nice clean signal and good presence. But the problem is that this girl
> >rarely STAYS at that moderate level. She likes to get EXTREMELY
> >dramatic with her singing, especially on the higher notes, where she
> >just BELTS it out, easily overloading my mic and preamp! She seems to
> >think that in order to reach ANY high note, you have to fill your lungs
> >to capacity and let your voice fly out with enough volume and force to
> >flatten Hiroshima! I'm not kidding--this girl is L-O-U-D.
>
> 1. RE-20. Keep it at a good distance. Keep the levels down so it never
> overloads. If you have to use a pad on the mike, use it.
>
> 2. MAYBE consider using two mikes, one close and one far, which allows
> you to switch between the two.

I remember an interview with Tony Visconti and he said that is exactly what
he did with David Bowie when he was recording Heroes. A close up mike for
the intimate stuff but mikes progressivley set back, gated to open as Bowie
got louder and so on. Either that or just give the wee shite a slap

Big Craigie
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 11:51:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Do you have a clip of the recorded file we could listen to? Or a file
of the clipped-recording we could hear? (LOL).

It depends on if you're getting paid or not. I'd tell her she needs to
back off the mic when she's about to blast. Find out what here
favorite singer is, and tell her "she *always* backs off the mic in the
studio. that's what the pros do. you're favorite singer is no dummy.
let's do what she does so we can get that pro-record sound."

Sounds like a compressor going to disk is mandatory here. Get a good
one, and set it for stun.

The 414 has really high SPL before overloading. put the -10db pad in,
and put a Shure 10db pad inline past that if you're still clipping the
preamp.
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 11:57:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

also do this:
record the vocals twice. first time, set the controls to capture the
quiet stuff well, and let the blast stuff overload.

then record again at a low gain setting, the quiet parts will be down
too far, but the blast spots won't clip.

blend that in with the other advice, and you should get what you need
on disk.

if she's a prima-donna and can't be taught, but has no problem cutting
her vocals multiple times, just make her slave it out and then comp it
in the daw.
Anonymous
June 20, 2005 11:59:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"you're favorite singer is Mariah Carey? you have great taste, she's
the best. do you know she cuts every vocal track between 12 and 24
times? get ready, that's what we're going to do? it's pro-recording
time. welcome to the big leagues."
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 2:09:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

johnvonlaws@hotmail.com wrote:
> was / is to turn up his or her headphones. The louder the "cans" are I
> find the "softer" the performer sings.

I've done that successfully with stage monitors as well. Sometimes the
right monitor mix helps the audience more than the mains do...
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 3:18:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

genericaudioperson@hotmail.com wrote:

> It depends on if you're getting paid or not. I'd tell her she needs to
> back off the mic when she's about to blast. Find out what here
> favorite singer is, and tell her "she *always* backs off the mic in the
> studio. that's what the pros do. you're favorite singer is no dummy.
> let's do what she does so we can get that pro-record sound."

The issue that develops here is that a singer that
is trying to 'back off' at the louder phrases but
hasn't yet mastered the technique is an even more
unnatural sound due to over-compensating.

The meter-in-the-face idea is good.
Get one with big bright LED clip indicators.

rd
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 6:45:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"EADGBE" <hwbosshoss@aol.com> wrote in
news:1119231362.571497.180020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> What do you all think?

....why not just record her as you normally would and then let HER
(and her mother) listen to it. Perhaps demonstrating the problem
would yield the result you desire.

Of course, I honestly don't know anything.



Brendan
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 2:10:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <Xns967BE783FE6C9hortajanus6org@208.49.80.188> horta@janus6.org writes:

> ...why not just record her as you normally would and then let HER
> (and her mother) listen to it. Perhaps demonstrating the problem
> would yield the result you desire.

You can never get away with this. They'll blame you or your equipment
for the inconsistent vocal. Better to do the "two-mics-two-gains
gains" or split the mic to two channels (yeah, you'll destroy the
fragile mic-to-preamp interface that you spent so much money to
optimiize) with different gain and record to two tracks. Then tell
them to come back in a couple of days after you've had some time to
listen to the recording and put together the best possible vocal.

They might like what you've done, they might not. If they do, you can
explain what you did and why you had to do it. You might even do a
"before and after" with the low gain (not clipped) channel and show
how the vocal disappears in the mix when it's not sung consistently.

In other words, do your job as an engineer. Then, when you've done
your best, you can try to educate the client as to what might make a
better recording the next time. Don't tell them how much trouble the
singer is making for you (it's your job to deal with that), tell them
how they can make the entire vocal recording better.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 5:14:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Phil Ramone recorded P. Domingo, with a small dia mic from 10 feet away.
Good luck,
Tom


"kleinebre" <mrjb@dnd.utwente.nl> wrote in message
news:1119290880.873566.41710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Once I had an opera singer so loud that my Rode NT2 could not handle
> it. Backing up was the solution back then. My guess is the lack of
> definition by backing her from the mic is partially caused by
> reflections of the room, see if it helps to hang a few blankets around
> as padding to reduce room reflections:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------blanket
> *LOUD* girl <--- plenty of distance ---> mic
> -----------------------------------------------------blanket
>
> So much for a possible technical solution. I did however like the
> headphone tip given earlier because it solves the problem at the source
> ;) 
>
> Cheers,
> Marc
>
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 5:14:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Tommy B <mrtomm@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Phil Ramone recorded P. Domingo, with a small dia mic from 10 feet away.

This is SOP for opera performers and other classically-trained folks,
in part because so much of the sound comes out of the chest rather
than just the mouth.

With a girl who sometimes is quiet and sometimes totally out of control,
it may work on the loud parts, but not the quiet ones.

That's why I suggested the dual mike pair, with close and distant mikes
and swapping between them when you comp the vocals.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 7:49:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I like the headphone mix suggestion. It's been one of my most
effective techniques for Singer Training, esp. with those who won't
accept suggestions.

IME, after a while, singer, gear and engineer meet at some sort of
usable mid-point.

stv
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 7:56:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

> < ...snip.. >
>
> In other words, do your job as an engineer. Then, when you've done
> your best, you can try to educate the client as to what might make a
> better recording the next time. Don't tell them how much trouble the
> singer is making for you (it's your job to deal with that), tell them
> how they can make the entire vocal recording better.

Kind of makes me wonder where the balance point is between being
an engineer and being a producer. However, I'd guess part of your
point is not to piss off the executive producer (stage mom)... ;-)

Later...

Ron Capik
--
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 10:23:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <42B8384C.93A005DD@worldnet.att.net> r.capik@worldnet.att.net writes:

> Kind of makes me wonder where the balance point is between being
> an engineer and being a producer. However, I'd guess part of your
> point is not to piss off the executive producer (stage mom)... ;-)

That, too. Sometimes the engineer ends up being the producer, but
often a producer who can't tell the talent what to do. So you make the
best of it, and try to be helpful.

There's always the alternative of telling the client that you simply
can't make a recording that you'd be happy with, and that they should
try another studio. A client like the one we're taking about here
isn't going to go around town ruining your reputation.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 2:38:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

RD Jones wrote:
> genericaudioperson@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > It depends on if you're getting paid or not. I'd tell her she needs to
> > back off the mic when she's about to blast. Find out what here
> > favorite singer is, and tell her "she *always* backs off the mic in the
> > studio. that's what the pros do. you're favorite singer is no dummy.
> > let's do what she does so we can get that pro-record sound."
>
> The issue that develops here is that a singer that
> is trying to 'back off' at the louder phrases but
> hasn't yet mastered the technique is an even more
> unnatural sound due to over-compensating.
>
> The meter-in-the-face idea is good.
> Get one with big bright LED clip indicators.

The way I got the point across to a couple of our singers was to go
ahead and let them peg the redlights, play it back to them while
letting them watch the wave form scroll through and let them hear how
bad a digitally clipped (or overcompressed) vocal sounds. A bit
Pavlovic. Also works if they're plosive happy...

Best,
Andy
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 7:00:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:51:22 -0400, Roger W. Norman wrote:

> A lot of people simply don't learn by playback. They'll tend to think
> it's your fault for the recordings rather than hold themselves responsible
> for the performance. Good artists learn simply because they want to be
> good. Bad artists aren't, yet they don't know it. --

I think you're being a little too generous with the the word "artist".

In the 50's there were "Singers", and there were "Bands".

In the 60's there were "Rock Groups".

In the 70's, there was this thing called "Soft Rock". Sounds to me like a
description of sandstone or talc, but whatever. It didn't seem quite right
to call these purveyors of bubble gum type music "Rock Groups", so the
term "Recording Artist" was born. Shame too, because most of these people
were even less well described by the word "Artist" than they were by the
word "Rock".

Thing have gone steadily downhill from there.
July 7, 2009 3:59:56 PM

I think to impress upon her that being able to control your voice enough to make a high note and still be able to do it at the lowest volume possible shows the most talent. I am in a choir and the best singers can sing a high note at a low volume. At least if she can practice and train her voice to do that she will be able to hone that skill. It is much easier to sing a high note loudly, and takes the least skill. Now that I've said that four different ways I think you get the message. Hope this helps.
!