How do i include audio on CD lead in tracks?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'm not a pro or anything, but I do create a lot of CDs from live
recordings. If the in-between banter is something I really want to
keep, I do one of two things.

When I'm slicing the the whole recording into tracks, I put all the
banter at the end of each song so that it is included if you let it
play through, but gets skipped if the user hits "skip". The other
alternative is to actually slice the banter into it's own track so you
get track 1 "talking", track 2 "song", track 3 "more talking", track 4
"song". etc.

I use Cool Edit for the slicing.

Bobby

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"StraightEight" <straighteight@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Just a quick question, I'm wondering if its possible that their exists
>consumer software which will allow me to create lead in tracks on a CD
>which contain audio? I'm mixing a live album and there is a bit of
>inbetween banter which the band want to keep, and think it would be a
>nice touch for the track count down to begin when the banter starts,
>means when you skip to track it starts on the song itself, its a bit of
>a gimmick I want to experiment with after seeing it on a CD I've seen
>before.

Actually there is only one lead-in on a CD, 2 seconds long, and it is
always skipped on CD players. Each track of a CD can have 100 sub-parts,
numbered from 0 to 99. When a track is played sequentially, sub-part 0
(=index 0) gets played with the time display counting backwards.
Usually this part is used for inter-track pause: When you skip to a
track playback starts with index 1. Thus index 0 may be used for your
purpose. It can have any duration.

So you need a CD burning program that support index editing. I use
Feurio! for that: www.feurio.de

Norbert

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

StraightEight wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just a quick question, I'm wondering if its possible that
their exists
> consumer software which will allow me to create lead in
tracks on a CD
> which contain audio?

What I think you really want is software that will let you
burn a CD that is logically one continuous audio track with
no audible interruptions, but that is also
random-addressible as if it were a collection of contigious
tracks.

>I'm mixing a live album and there is a bit of
> inbetween banter which the band want to keep, and think it
would be a
> nice touch for the track count down to begin when the
banter starts,
> means when you skip to track it starts on the song itself,
its a bit
> of a gimmick I want to experiment with after seeing it on
a CD I've
> seen before.

One gets this by burning a CD as one track, but with track
marks inserted into it. With some CD burning software like
Nero they support a different paradigm, one where you simply
burn tracks with no silences in-between.

> Is it possible to do this at home on a PC with software or
is it
> something best left to a CD manufacturing house?

I do this at home all the time. It's just a matter of having
burning software that supports either user-definable
silences between the tracks or that supports disk-at-once
burning with user-definable track marks. The *professional*
way to describe this feature is "cue lists".

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message...
>
>> What I think you really want is software that will let
you
>> burn a CD that is logically one continuous audio track
with
>> no audible interruptions, but that is also
>> random-addressible as if it were a collection of
contigious
>> tracks.

> Oooops... I might have missed that. I like CD Architect
for this.

I use Audition/CE for most of my work of this kind. But, its
all pretty much the same. You throw a bunch of indices and
track markers into the .wav file, and when you burn it, you
get what you want.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for the replies everyone, I will look into the mentioned
software/techniques. Reading the site description of CD architect
"Create live-style CDs with audio in the time between tracks.." sounds
like it will be the winnder.

The "hidden" track before track#1 is particularly intriguing as I
remember a band who had wished to do this a few years ago, but were
told by the mastering that this was impossible.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

StraightEight wrote:

> Hi,

> Just a quick question, I'm wondering if its possible that
> their exists consumer software which will allow me to create
> lead in tracks on a CD which contain audio?

I use Feurio for CD's. It is very capable and not very costly. Allow
yourself some time to climb its learning curve. Shareware, fully
functional demo available.

> I'm mixing a live album and there is a bit of inbetween banter
> which the band want to keep, and think it would be a nice touch
> for the track count down to begin when the banter starts,

Your thinking is broken, edit first, worry about tracks later. You want
one contiguous audio file that is as the performance should have been.
You're in for some serious editing to make it worthwhile listening to,
also the tenth time.

What you should aim for - in my opinion - is to remove all the silly
silly stuff while keeping the presentations in and presentable and
thereby making the time between each song as short as it should have
been while still appropiate for the venue size. And you want to aim for
making all the edits as non-obvious as can be.

You then add the track start ID's in the CD making software and allow
them to be offset to fit a block start, the audio will then remain
continuous. A bit of intro goes with the song, but "a long thank you to
the promoters aunt for the winter stockings that made the concent in
this here ice-rink possible" gets its own track ID. Similarly a bit of
extro, applause, dogs barking, whatever, goes with the song, but a lot
gets its own track.

> means when you skip to track it starts on the song itself, its
> a bit of a gimmick I want to experiment with after seeing it on
> a CD I've seen before.

OK, its a gimmick, now well - uhm - a live recording CD is intended for
working well also 40 years from now. Gimmicks tend to be short lives
fashion things. Don't go edit gimmicks, I don't think they are
appropiate in the context.

> Is it possible to do this at home on a PC with software or is it
> something best left to a CD manufacturing house?>

Calling whomsoever is to mass produce and ask if they have specific
"please "do" and "please do not do" conventions is a sensible idea, they
are likely to have some form of general "materials guideline".

> Straight Eight


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
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* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
* The Vienna Copyright convention applies *
*******************************************

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The space between Index 0 and Index 1 for a given track is called the
"pregap" and a very large portion of the available CD-burning software
doesn't let you manipulate it in any way besides making it 0, 1, or 2
seconds of silence. The OP wants it to be of arbitrary duration, and
not be silent. James' description of how the CD player reacts is
correct. Also, when you program a CD player or "rip" a CD to your
computer, the pregaps are generally omitted. Also, if you skip ahead
to another track, it will begin playing at Index 1, omitting the
pregap. This is why it's important to make sure Index 1 doesn't fall
in the middle of a word of between-song banter.
You can make the pregap as long as you like, and it can have audio or
not.
The one exception is the pregap for Track One, which by the Redbook
standard must be between (IIRC) 2 and 3 seconds long, and be silent.
In theory, you could violate the redbook standard and insert a song in
the Track 1 pregap, which your CD player could only access if you
played Track 1 and then used the "rewind" button to scan backwards
through the pregap. I have never founf a piece of software that allows
you to do this, but I'm sure the more professional solutions would let
you break the rules, after issuing a stern warning. Whether the
pressing plant or the consumer's CD player would gracefully accommodate
this is another question.
But we're not talking about hiding a bonus track, we're talking about
maintaining album continuity, especially for a live recording. This is
the most important aspect of album mastering, and it's something that
even the best mastering engineers may not spend a lot of time on, so
I've always done it myself. That is, I generally edit the album myself
so that the sounds between songs sound good and are of an appropriate
duration. There's nothing that kills album continuity faster than a
fade to digital black at the end of every song. I've had mastering
engineers try to do that to albums I spent hours editing, and it's a
great way to get me to go find a new mastering house.
Like somebody else said, the idea for album continuity, especially for
live recordings, is to edit the whole thing into one contiguous sound
file, and then use a program that allows you to drop track indexes
anywhere you like.

ulysses


In article <opssvk6xpsdjgvgv@news.nerc.ac.uk>, James Perrett
<James.Perrett@noc.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

> On 23 Jun 2005 06:44:40 -0700, StraightEight <straighteight@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Is it possible to do this at home on a PC with software or is it
> > something best left to a CD manufacturing house?
> >
> >
>
> I don't think anyone else has covered this very clearly. What you need to
> do is place track 2 index 0 where the talking starts after the first track
> and then place track 2 index 1 where the music starts (and so on for the
> subsequent tracks). The CD player will treat index 1 as the track start so
> if you want to skip to the start of track 2 it will go directly to the
> music. A normal CD player will also treat an index 0 as the end of the
> previous track so, if you don't want to hear the banter between songs you
> can use your CD player's programming facility to skip the intro.
>
> This sort of thing can be done with most software that supports cue files
> - there are free programs like Feurio or EAC or you can pay for Nero or
> CDRWin. There are also programs like CDWave which will help you to create
> cue files.
>
> Cheers.
>
> James.