Live8

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Don Pearce wrote:

> Live8 has just started here in Hyde Park with U2 and Paul McCartney.
>
> The quality of the sound is FABULOUS. Congratulations to whoever has
> put this together.

Further to my earlier comment, I just reviewed part of the U2 set I
videoed.

The drums sound like a set of saucepan lids being played. And there is
*no* bass whatever of any consequence anywhere. Never mind the
indifferent vocal quality.

I'd compare the sound to listening over a 60s Japanese portable
transistor AM radio.


Graham :-(

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On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:18:25 +0100, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Don Pearce wrote:
>
>> Live8 has just started here in Hyde Park with U2 and Paul McCartney.
>>
>> The quality of the sound is FABULOUS. Congratulations to whoever has
>> put this together.
>
>Further to my earlier comment, I just reviewed part of the U2 set I
>videoed.
>
>The drums sound like a set of saucepan lids being played. And there is
>*no* bass whatever of any consequence anywhere. Never mind the
>indifferent vocal quality.
>
>I'd compare the sound to listening over a 60s Japanese portable
>transistor AM radio.
>
>
>Graham :-(

I'm listening on digital telly, and there is masses of bass. My sub is
getting quite a workout. Maybe there is a problem with your local
feed.

Youssou'n'Dour and Dido now, and the quality is back.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

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On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:56:16 +0100, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Yeah, Dido sounded better here too but let's face, it you only need *one
>mic* open to do that mainly ! She has a nice voice too - even at telephone
>quality. I noticed a distinct absence of treble this time.

For definite then, your feed is not the same one I'm listening to.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

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sorry - xm satellite radio - i dont get BBC tv so i guess we're even


"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42C6AFC4.E6A26736@hotmail.com...
>
> Iain Fraser wrote:
>
>> the xm broadcast isnt horrible
>
> xm ? I'm not in the USA.
>
> Graham
>

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xmradio.com might be webbing - not sure

"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42C6B516.FFB01370@hotmail.com...
>
> Iain Fraser wrote:
>
>> sorry - xm satellite radio - i dont get BBC tv so i guess we're even
>
> Do they netcast ? I haven't got real player installed on this PC that
> might
> make that easy to find. But I could re-install.
>
> I turned the TV off anyway when REM came on ! I have my limits.
>
> Graham
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

If you think the sound of Live 8 is bad, wait til they screw up the
donations!

Nothing like lining the pockets of corrupt dictators in Africa, never
gets to the people.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

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"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42C6D4FF.3CA3ACF9@hotmail.com...
> Or is this 'normal' now ?

I don't go to that many concerts nowadays, but almost without exception the
sound ranges from "needs serious improvement" to "truly atrocious". I can
understand how things can get out of control when you have a lot of
different bands and engineers trying to share the same same rig, but even at
most normal concerts the sound is just plain bad. I don't know where the
blame lies, but I'm inclined to believe that the promoters just don't care
as long as they don't have to issue refunds, and the engineers are just
trying to do the best they can with what they've got. I refuse to believe
that many people with wooden ears decided to run sound for a living.

Sean

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I have a new multimedia computer. Watching the concerts on MTV and VH1
and also watching the live streaming feeds on AOL, and the sound is
better on AOL.

Not bad, about what I would expect for such a diverse concert with many
bands and a short time to set each one up. Looking forward to Pink
Floyd, shortly.

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Joe Sensor wrote:
> I have a new multimedia computer. Watching the concerts on MTV and VH1
> and also watching the live streaming feeds on AOL, and the sound is
> better on AOL.
>
> Not bad, about what I would expect for such a diverse concert with
> many bands and a short time to set each one up. Looking forward to
> Pink Floyd, shortly.

Many people are watching it out of charitable conscience, others for the
between band "entertainment". Music lovers are waiting for the Floyd...

OMG Peter Kay is singing Amarillo....


--
"Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

"Would you rather silent but deadly?"

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Tim S Kemp wrote:
> However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a prologic
> decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go to the "office"
> and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for me has been atrocious
> lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou N'Dour was over 1 second out.
> Madonna is spot on.

No lip-sync error here (DTT off Crystal Palace) but I have seen some
cheap Freeview boxes loose audio/video sync for a while then snap back
into place.

--
Ian Gregory
Replace "groups" with my first name to email

Simple Feedback Trainer: http://sft.sourceforge.net/

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shannon wrote:

> I'll take a guess at the usual suspects, Brit Row in London and Clairs in
> Philly

I was kinda hoping it might not be - but I suspect you're right. Force majuere
etc...

I'll never be able to mention Brit Row in future without caveats, if they are
indeed the contractor,

Same goes for Clair Bros.


Graham

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"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> Give me an 'unknown' concert scenario and I'll use a classic analogue desk
> any
> day, simply for it's lovely simple control surface.


And your "old fart" ways of thinking. And I mean that in the most polite
way. : )

What digital consoles have you had experience with?

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Tim S Kemp wrote:

> Joe Sensor wrote:
> > I have a new multimedia computer. Watching the concerts on MTV and VH1
> > and also watching the live streaming feeds on AOL, and the sound is
> > better on AOL.
> >
> > Not bad, about what I would expect for such a diverse concert with
> > many bands and a short time to set each one up. Looking forward to
> > Pink Floyd, shortly.
>
> Many people are watching it out of charitable conscience, others for the
> between band "entertainment". Music lovers are waiting for the Floyd...

And it's been such a piece of wank that I forget the addy of the site I'm
suppossed to log into to add my name.

Graham

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Joe Sensor wrote:
> Tim S Kemp wrote:
>
>
>> Many people are watching it out of charitable conscience, others for
>> the between band "entertainment". Music lovers are waiting for the
>> Floyd...
>
> Sound? Are you kidding" FLOYD ROCKED!! And it sounded awesome. I have
> it cranked in the studio phones and it sounds incredible!!
> History in the making.

I watched it, and got it captured on my PVR. Floyd still works even after a
short break!


--
"Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

"Would you rather silent but deadly?"

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Ian Gregory wrote:
> Tim S Kemp wrote:
>> However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a
>> prologic decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go
>> to the "office" and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for
>> me has been atrocious lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou
>> N'Dour was over 1 second out. Madonna is spot on.
>
> No lip-sync error here (DTT off Crystal Palace) but I have seen some
> cheap Freeview boxes loose audio/video sync for a while then snap back
> into place.

Heh - Pace Puma, so not "cheap" but not reliable either... still at least I
can watch it again and again now!

--
"Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

"Would you rather silent but deadly?"

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Pooh Bear wrote:

> So - why wasn't it like that from the start ?

I would reckon on it being a fader jock problem - Beeb would have had
access to rehearsal tapes from yesterday and probably someone on hand from
the big names production teams for the broadcast mix. And of course the
headliners would have been much better looked after anyhow.

Who's Maccas band? Drummer was pure entertainment!


--
"Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

"Would you rather silent but deadly?"

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have not been near a television all day so I haven't seen the staging
for any of the events, but if this is typical of these types of shows
there are probably two stages, hence three broadcast trucks. One audio
truck for each stage that outputs to a third production truck that
handles a stereo music feed and supplemental audio like applause and
commentator mics. This truck also takes care of all camera switching
and video tape record and playback. One stage sets and line checks
while the other is live.
Also there is one front of house and monitor console for each stage,
and if the act is "heavy" enough they might even have their console
present as well.
I can't imagine any rehearsal for these events.

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shannon wrote:
> Pooh Bear wrote:
>> shannon wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I'll take a guess at the usual suspects, Brit Row in London and
>>> Clairs in Philly
>>
>>
>> I was kinda hoping it might not be - but I suspect you're right.
>> Force majuere etc...
>>
>> I'll never be able to mention Brit Row in future without caveats, if
>> they are indeed the contractor,
>>
>> Same goes for Clair Bros.
>>
>>
>> Graham
>>
>
> Why ?
> You didn't hear the mix off the sound company console unless you were
> at the event.
> Do you have no concept of split microphone feed events ?

How do they work??? Isn't everything Lightwave / Ethersound / Cobranet or
PM1 Linked these days?


--
"Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

"Would you rather silent but deadly?"

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Scott Dorsey wrote:

>> Indeedy, however what happens when you mix digital (and my work is
>> much smaller venues than this) is you get used to how your consoles
>> work. Leaving a channel muted is unforgivable analogue or digital.
>
> I find most of the inexpensive digital consoles are really, really
> annoying in that regard. But I have worked on some consoles, like
> the Capricorn, that made me think digital could be an advance if
> people just spent
> some time and money on making a UI that worked.

In terms of UI the digico and the yamaha units are very very good. It's a
matter of training.

At least you don't need to stand on a crate to reach the back of a PM1
surface. Even at the low end of the scale I'm working (24 channels across 2x
01V) mutes are at a glance, lead vocal and host vocal are set recall safe
for the mute, and there's a recall undo button for the unsuspecting moments
of brain failure.




--
"Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

"Would you rather silent but deadly?"

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In article <42c74b41$1@clear.net.nz>, shannon <me2@privacy.net> wrote:
>These aren't unknown concert scenarios for the PA engineers, and mostly
>not for the broadcast engineers either.
>The Pink Floyd mix was definitely not done on the fly.
>The Motley Crue one was not worth doing at all.
>But the facilities are made available to all the acts, to rehearse and
>store their settings.
>Some are better at it than others, I suspect that you would be
>completely lost, but its not really your game.
>A digital console is simpler and faster to access than 48 channels of
>knobs and two racks of outboard effects.

We do it with a second engineer who has a ruled notebook that lists
all the parameters for the rough mix of the upcoming act. For something
big, it can take a few minutes to repatch everything, even without a lot
of outboard effects.

And there's always some change at the last minute... somebody has always
got another musician sitting in or a setlist change or something like
that. If you're lucky, he told the FOH guy. If you're really lucky,
he even told you in the truck.

The first song for _every_ group always involves a little tinkering.

>you can relabel, re group, reset all the limiters and gates and onboard
>reverb with a preset change.
>Which is how you recover your rehearsal mix on a different console 5
>minutes after the last act finished.

You can do it by hand. I do agree that the ability to do a recall is
a huge advantage of a digital console, or of a digitally-controlled
analogue console. The problem is that once that preset is recalled,
making changes on the fly can sometimes be an adventure with certain
digital consoles that will remain nameless.

But this isn't because the consoles are digital per se, just that they
were designed by feature-obsessed marketing wanks.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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Scott Dorsey wrote:

> See, I find the 02R really irritating. I haven't used any of the
> newer big Yamaha digital consoles, but the control overloading on the
> 02R just drives me up the wall.
>
> Also it is _very_ easy to screw yourself up with the signal routing
> functions.

02R was never intended as a live desk, it's control flow is similar to that
of an inline 8 buss (even if its surface isn't). 01V / 01V96 / DM1000 /
DM200 / PM5 / PM1 are all UI optimised for live use, everything falls to
hand. Recently had another engineer using the setuo on a regular basis and
only took a few hours to get proficient.



--
"Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

"Would you rather silent but deadly?"

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On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:40:25 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> In article <42c74b41$1@clear.net.nz>, shannon <me2@privacy.net> wrote:
>>These aren't unknown concert scenarios for the PA engineers, and mostly
>>not for the broadcast engineers either.
>>The Pink Floyd mix was definitely not done on the fly.
>>The Motley Crue one was not worth doing at all.
>>But the facilities are made available to all the acts, to rehearse and
>>store their settings.
>>Some are better at it than others, I suspect that you would be
>>completely lost, but its not really your game.
>>A digital console is simpler and faster to access than 48 channels of
>>knobs and two racks of outboard effects.
>
> We do it with a second engineer who has a ruled notebook that lists
> all the parameters for the rough mix of the upcoming act. For something
> big, it can take a few minutes to repatch everything, even without a lot
> of outboard effects.
>
> And there's always some change at the last minute... somebody has always
> got another musician sitting in or a setlist change or something like
> that. If you're lucky, he told the FOH guy. If you're really lucky,
> he even told you in the truck.
>
> The first song for _every_ group always involves a little tinkering.
>
>>you can relabel, re group, reset all the limiters and gates and onboard
>>reverb with a preset change.
>>Which is how you recover your rehearsal mix on a different console 5
>>minutes after the last act finished.
>
> You can do it by hand. I do agree that the ability to do a recall is
> a huge advantage of a digital console, or of a digitally-controlled
> analogue console. The problem is that once that preset is recalled,
> making changes on the fly can sometimes be an adventure with certain
> digital consoles that will remain nameless.
>
> But this isn't because the consoles are digital per se, just that they
> were designed by feature-obsessed marketing wanks.
> --scott


Perhaps it was the confusion of this classic analogue interface :-)


http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/thelive [...] lery-intro

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"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> What digital consoles have you had experience with?
>
> Neve. Several models.
>
> Graham

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think they made live consoles. Have
you ever used one of the new Yamaha's? Or Digico, or Innovason, etc? If
not, then all your comments on digital LIVE mixers are completely
unsupported. Just because you are afraid of change does not make a new
technology inferior. I don't care if you never see the benefits of a
digital live console, but don't be surprised when you're left in the digital
dust.

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Thomas Bishop wrote:

> "Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> What digital consoles have you had experience with?
> >
> > Neve. Several models.
> >
> > Graham
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think they made live consoles.

They don't. I was involved in the Neve digital project some ~ 16 yrs ago.

I was one of the very few of Neve's classic analogue engineers who was even
*allowed* to mix with the digital team !

The issue of a *live* console vs any other is moot in the digital domain. Unless
Midas come along and finally make a workable control surface for live use !

> Have
> you ever used one of the new Yamaha's? Or Digico, or Innovason, etc? If
> not, then all your comments on digital LIVE mixers are completely
> unsupported

I've seen them. They all have rather less faders than the number of 'virtual
channels'.

This is where the nonsence starts.

> . Just because you are afraid of change does not make a new
> technology inferior. I don't care if you never see the benefits of a
> digital live console, but don't be surprised when you're left in the digital
> dust.

I write DSP assembler when I have to ! Don't even think of trying that "I know
better than you " trick on me !

Graham

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shannon wrote:

> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 08:57:05 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote:
>
> > shannon wrote:
> >
> >> Did you mix monitors of front of house or work for any of the sound
> >> companies ?
> >
> > I *was* the sound company ! Period ! Get over it !
> >
> > For your amusement, I mixed the live sound. OK ?
> >
> > Graham
>
> No, it sounds like you did a small gig a long time ago, and you have no
> idea what goes on at large simulcast shows within at least the last twenty
> years, if you think that the sound company is responsible for the
> broadcast mix.

I never said *otherwise* !

OTOH I've since been involved with various production companies. I'm not
witless about this area you know !

If the guy in the OB truck doesn't have a decent feed he can't make it any
better. I'm appalled at the idea that whoever was indeed in the OB truck may
have had some decent feeds but had no idea how to use them !

Graham