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Which one should I buy?

Last response: in Laptops & Notebooks
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October 21, 2006 8:23:30 PM

I have no idea which is a better processor for multi tasking and long hours of intensive use (3D CAD modelling/rendering):

3.4Ghz 800Mhz FSB Pentium 4
OR
Intel Duo Centrino 1.83GHz 667Mhz FSB
OR
AMD Turion 64 ML-40 Processor 2.2GHz 1600MHz FSB


Here are 2 laptops I'm considering......which one is better :?:

Rock Extreme Ti

Intel Pentium 4HT 650 3.4GHz EM64T

4GB PC4300 533Mhz DDR-2 SDRAM

160GB hard disk (2 x 80GB RAID-0)

256MB Nvidia Quadro FX Go 1400 PCI-ex Graphics Card

OR

Dell M90

Intel Duo Centrino 1.83GHz Processor FSB 667 MHz

1GB of DDR2 667MHz Memory (2x512MB)

512MB NVIDIA Quadro FX-2500M Graphics (with DVI & VGA output and TV-OUT)

80GB Hard Disk, 5400rpm

OR

Dell 9400

Intel Duo Centrino 2.0GHz Processor FSB 667 MHz

2048MB 533MHz Dual Channel DDR2

256MB ATI® Mobility™ Radeon® X1400 HyperMemory™ graphics card

120GB (5,400rpm) Hard Drive

17"


Or can you recommend any others? I use it mostly for 3D CAD modelling and rendering.

Cheers! :) 

More about : buy

October 21, 2006 10:22:22 PM

These models sound like the Sager NP9890 or Sager NP5760, i would try lookikng into the Sagers. They will surely be better priced!
October 22, 2006 2:40:43 AM

Clevo actually MAKES Sager notebooks, Sager is a distributor, so I doubt you are going to ADD a middle man, and reduce your price at all.
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October 22, 2006 10:05:56 AM

Hi

I'm from the UK so we don't have any Sager Laptops available here.

The only laptops available to us here in the UK that are easily distributed are HP, Dell, Asus, Rock, Mesh, IBM, Sony, Acer, Advent, Packard Bell.

The first 5 models produce the higher spec notebooks.

Can anyone answer my question about the Proccessors? About which is the most powerful and best for multi tasking:

3.4Ghz 800Mhz FSB Pentium 4 OR Intel Duo Centrino 1.83GHz 667Mhz FSB OR AMD Turion 64 ML-40 Processor 2.2GHz 1600MHz FSB???????
October 22, 2006 7:01:46 PM

So which is the best graphics card out of the 3 laptops that I listed in the first post :?:
October 22, 2006 11:20:55 PM

Hi

Regarding the ROCK laptop:
I'm not buying a new OR latest Rock laptop. I found someone to sell the one I listed above, for £900 ($1800), used. I know, for sure, that it gets very hot and very noisy. The 160GB HDD on it IS 7200rpm.

Regarding the Dell M90 laptop:
I'm guessing that this is alot quieter and alot cooler than the Rock because of the core duo, and because it only has a 80GB HDD 5400rpm.
I found the Dell M90, with the specifications listed in the opening post, for £800 ($1600) NEW.


It seems each have good points and bad.....decisions decisions :roll:

Somebody told me there isn't that much difference between a 5400rpm and a 7200rpm :?


* * * * * * * * * *

I can't pay more than £800 ($1600), and I need a powerful laptop, which is why I'm resorting to buying a used one (with warranty).

* * * * * * * * * *
October 22, 2006 11:48:31 PM

mojo77uk, 5400rpm and 7200rpm has been debated around here lots. It seems like 7200rpm is a very inexpensive way to boost a systems performance. windows constantly references and loads data from the hardisk and if you have large 3d files that you are moving around and editing then i think it is a wise investment to make.

I have a laptop with a 7200rpm drive and i cant tell the difference in it and other laptops using 5400rpm as far as noise and heat goes.

If you can get the dell for cheaper than the rock computer i would definetly get the dell. I have read reviews about the dellm90 being a much better build than your average dell.
October 23, 2006 12:31:23 AM

Sager will actually offer a better price then any US Based Clevo Distributor because they have large purchasing power.

The Dell M90 video card (Quadro FX2500M) can be installed in the Sager NP9890 and NP5760 along with the NEW 7950 GTX. :) 
October 23, 2006 12:44:13 AM

Oh, I better call them tomorrow and start selling Sagers instead then.
October 23, 2006 12:49:08 AM

Miro, I think the P4 3.4Ghz chip would be faster for single use apps, and I am guessing that is what he is after with a Quadro card which is good essentially only for rendering, it is definately NOT a gaming card. Remember also that he is talking about vs. Core Duo 1.8 Ghz, not a Core 2 Duo.

The thing about the desktop chip is that it has the 800 Mhz fsb, this would really shine with faster RAM as it says there is 533 Mhz, but with 4 gigs of RAM in it, that is really going to help.

The RAID0 is going to also boost this puppy into the top slot as far as I can see by what he posted.

Do I think it is worth using a desktop chip in a notebook? No.

I assumed that he was buying this used due to the specs.
This weekend I got "explained" out with other posts so I kept it super simple.

Could he get a system for around this price that was better? Probably, it wouldn't have this kind of firepower, but it would be close and be more of like what you were saying less heat, noise and as you can immaging, there is probably a reason someone else is getting rid of it.
October 23, 2006 2:06:48 AM

I was actually kidding about the Sager thing.
I don't want to go down that road to save a few bucks.
To me, at the level of service I provide, it definately isn't worth it.
October 23, 2006 2:17:03 AM

Its not very likely a dead pixel shows up, but if you want the guarantee from the start it does cost $200.

The price difference is a quite a bit more significant and you also gain more capability with a Sager. With the Sager you can get the FX2500M and the 7950GTX and also get allot faster order turnaround. KN's base with a DVDRW & WUXGA is over $450 more than the Sager V Package with the same spec. In real world use, the ram is not going to make that much of a difference. As far as warranty, as many have said before, it is better to go through a Sager reseller which will add better warranty service compared to going with Sager direct. Many resellers have 3 Year Warranties for only $99.
October 23, 2006 4:28:18 AM

ROFL, I am not sure what capability you would gain going somewhere else.
Killer Notebooks of course offers 7800&7900 GTX as well as the FX2500M and upcoming 7950 card, but I am not going to put the 7950 on my site until they are actually released. Since Sager does NOT have this card, Justin is of course talking about a pre-order, and portraying that Sager has them and I don't, it is pretty misleading.
You can see that right Sager's site, and XoticPC gets this part FROM Sager, and if you are that concerned about saving money... you might as well get a system DIRECTLY from Sager instead of going through another middle man: SagerNotebooks

The FX2500M, is a custom order, I don't stock it and the reason is really simple, for the average person it DOES NOT perform to the level of the 7900, if you do rendering, 3D modeling, contact me and we can build a custom system for you custom tailored to you (that's a major difference, not, "Oh, here's your web page and cart, there you go, there's your 3 check box options you have to 'customize' your system."):

If more capability means, "We portray a $250 upgraded card as something "better" you need that gets 50 fps less for what the average user uses the system for..." that's kind of misleading. But I understand the systems and what is and isn't performance/dollar smart for what you want to do. I question whether some of these guys are actually out in the shop doing it when I hear stuff like that.

I guess the difference is, when I say I have something, I actually have it. It isn't like these horror stories where cusomters order systems and a month later get an email stating that this and that guy in the supply chain couldn't get a part and you know, "It's never the system builders fault..." Well, if the system builder advertises a part they can' get, it in fact, IS their fault.

I am also questioning the actual benefit the 7950 brings to the table for $100 increase in price. There is nothing new there, I am not going to mislead my customers and portray this card as the next coming to make a few bucks. THIS IS AN OVERCLOCKED 7900! More than likely you can get the equivalent performance yourself with coolbits and other O.C. programs!

As far as fast turn around, since I have everything in stock, I don't know how arguably anyone else has faster turn around. You could ask Miro who ordered an Executioner Thursday and got it IN CANADA on Monday.

But of course anyone can make up whatever they want if they are going to just attack you on a forum. It's a M.O. that has really no place on the forums, and we have been told that, and I am honoring my word to the moderators of this forum. Why anyone would do that after being warned is beyond me.
Quote:
In real world use, the ram is not going to make that much of a difference.
I have heard this a lot from other system builders, that the little tweaks I do to my systems don't make a "Big" difference. A little increase from several components and specialty settings delivers a synergistic effect that OVERALL makes the big difference everyone says doesn't exist... That is until you test them side by side.

But other than saying how K|N isn't as good, you DID get the sagely advice of:
Quote:
These models sound like the Sager NP9890 or Sager NP5760, i would try lookikng into the Sagers. They will surely be better priced!
AND
Quote:
Sager will actually offer a better price then any US Based Clevo Distributor because they have large purchasing power.

The Dell M90 video card (Quadro FX2500M) can be installed in the Sager NP9890 and NP5760 along with the NEW 7950 GTX.
Nothing about the 3 systems that the person put forward in his question, but hey, "Here's how you can buy something like what you asked about that can benefit me."
October 23, 2006 1:40:28 PM

Mark, this is not an attack on you, it is laying out the facts on why most choose the Sager brand and their respected benefits. (Just like you stating your benefits) Sager and its resellers fully disclose the 7950GTX is not in stock but it will be shipping in next 2.5 weeks. Sager and its resellers have a strong demand for the card, which lead to the pre-order status when the 7950 was released 10/14/06 from nVidia. The same that Dell and Alienware do with newly released video cards. The 7950 is an OC'd 7900, but that does make it the FASTEST mobile video card on the market today. Sager/Sager resellers pride themselves on providing the latest technology as soon as its available.

I am not stating the FX2500M is better for gaming, just that Sager has it available (along with many other options) and don’t require a special order for the customer that need it. As you said you are comparing your system with a 7900GTX512 and a FX2500M, along with a faster CPU in your favor for the increase in bench’s. Mark are you saying if you have a system with OCZ vs. a Major brand ram side by side you will see the difference? All though there is an increase in bench’s, in real world use it will not be noticed. This is not an insult toward KN, just the fact of what customers should know about the Real World “gain” of OCZ ram.

We are not strongly promoting our specific systems as you have chosen to do. It is against board policy. There are many Sager resellers (PN, DL, PCT & others) out there and customers may even go to Sager direct, where the customer can get all of these options through. Sager resellers are better alternative for support/pricing/customization options available. I see all of this from a customers stand point and the options/price ($450 + savings) difference is why Sager moves thousands of systems more a month than others with the same Clevo machine. I was speaking of fast turnaround for not only a single order but multiple orders or volume orders. Sager has ample stock and can ship multiple hundreds of machines out per week. :) 
October 23, 2006 2:38:54 PM

Quote:
We are not strongly promoting our specific systems as you have chosen to do.
Justin, I am not "promoting' anything to this person, again YOU ARE MISREPRESENTING THE FACTS.
Go back and read the posts.
Quote:
Clevo actually MAKES Sager notebooks, Sager is a distributor, so I doubt you are going to ADD a middle man, and reduce your price at all.
Quote:
3.4Ghz 800Mhz FSB Pentium.
Quote:
Dell M90
Quote:
Oh, I better call them tomorrow and start selling Sagers instead then.
Quote:
Miro, I think the P4 3.4Ghz chip would be faster for single use apps, and I am guessing that is what he is after with a Quadro card which is good essentially only for rendering, it is definately NOT a gaming card. Remember also that he is talking about vs. Core Duo 1.8 Ghz, not a Core 2 Duo.

The thing about the desktop chip is that it has the 800 Mhz fsb, this would really shine with faster RAM as it says there is 533 Mhz, but with 4 gigs of RAM in it, that is really going to help.

The RAID0 is going to also boost this puppy into the top slot as far as I can see by what he posted.

Do I think it is worth using a desktop chip in a notebook? No.

I assumed that he was buying this used due to the specs.
This weekend I got "explained" out with other posts so I kept it super simple.

Could he get a system for around this price that was better? Probably, it wouldn't have this kind of firepower, but it would be close and be more of like what you were saying less heat, noise and as you can immaging, there is probably a reason someone else is getting rid of it.
Quote:
I was actually kidding about the Sager thing.
I don't want to go down that road to save a few bucks.
To me, at the level of service I provide, it definately isn't worth it.

Then you posted a bunch of stuff about Killer Notebooks.
Where it came from, I don't know.
AT NO TIME DID I EVER SAY
:arrow: BUY A KILLER NOTEBOOK
:arrow: LOOK AT KILLER NOTEBOOKS
OR EVEN
:arrow: MENTION KILLER NTOEBOOKS!


At that point, when you "subjectively compared" me to someone else with: "you also gain more capability with a Sager." and "and also get allot faster order turnaround." So get a system to upper Canada in 2 shipping days and prove it. and "In real world use, the ram is not going to make that much of a difference."&"Mark are you saying if you have a system with OCZ vs. a Major brand ram side by side you will see the difference?" Obviously I do, obviously the industry does because as ANYONE who overclocks knows the RAM makes a HUGE difference, I wouldn't think I would have to tell you that. Then I also get to hear, "Sager resellers are better alternative for support/pricing/customization options available." Wow, Sager offers the level of customization I do? That's news to everyone else in the industry that is trying to emulate my model for customization.

I simply corrected the things YOU said about Killer Notebooks.
But, "Mark, this is not an attack on you." Then why was I brought into it at all? I never brought it up, but I'm promoting? I just answered the guys question about which machine he posted of three would be better and why. Then the next thing I know I have to be defending my product. Why the confrontation brah, why you gotta be a hater?
Quote:
Sager moves thousands of systems more a month than others....

So if I understand this right, the moral of the story is, "If you want a system builder moving 1000's of machines a month, take a number, sit down, and we'll get to you, when your number is called, but every number is special... like a snowflake."

October 23, 2006 4:27:36 PM

Quote:
3.4Ghz 800Mhz FSB Pentium
question.. Isn't that proc single core? and am I wrong to think a 1.83 core duo would multitask better? I just thought that was odd but maybe you have a linky?

Now on another topic, what's up with the huge posts for such simple question.. You guys should just PM each other cause it hurts my eyes to see you go back and forth. Neither of you are wrong, from your own individual perspective. But I would like to point out One thing since I did read it all. Though KN doesn't explicitly say.. buy a Killer Notebook.. You do have a whopping big linked picture to your site. If that isn't advertisement, what is? peace
October 23, 2006 7:27:59 PM

Where you learn it has little effect on what you know, but knowledge comes at a price Jimmy.
Quote:
It hurts my eyes to see you go back and forth.
don't read 'em then.

You always have 2 cents to add don't you James? I put that big freaking dagger out when I proclaim victory. Look at any post before that, before you... I mean Justin started talking smack and there isn't ONE, not even one logo or link while you have 3 so save it you trouble maker.
October 23, 2006 7:50:33 PM

As others have stated, if you have a problem with someone that doesnt pertain to the post use the PM system, that is what its there for.

Mark, you have no room to talk about adding in.....
October 23, 2006 7:54:58 PM

Hey Justin, Jimmy, whatever, how about since YOU actually started this, you take your own advice chief? You can quote yourself ANYWHERE that you actaully tried to answer this guys question for me.
October 23, 2006 8:03:52 PM

Find no need to quote the obvious..... You started with the comments about Sagers....Why dont you just let it rest or PM me if you want to discuss further.
October 23, 2006 9:39:07 PM

Quote:
Where you learn it has little effect on what you know, but knowledge comes at a price Jimmy.
It hurts my eyes to see you go back and forth.
don't read 'em then.

You always have 2 cents to add don't you James? I put that big freaking dagger out when I proclaim victory. Look at any post before that, before you... I mean Justin started talking smack and there isn't ONE, not even one logo or link while you have 3 so save it you trouble maker.Well that was uncalled for... but you still haven't answered my question.. how is the 3.4ghz p4 better at multitasking than a 1.83 core duo?
October 23, 2006 9:43:39 PM

How is a an F350 able to pull more than 2 Honda Civics?
October 23, 2006 10:06:21 PM

Well obviously an F350 has a higher torque than even two honda civics... But two honda civics can go two different directions.. You can't do that in an f350

Isn't it better to have two honda civics for multitasking?
And can you just help me understand that in computer terms.. I'm not good at automechanics.. The best i've ever done is minor repairs like brake/rotors, plugs, muffler, and once i helped replace a clutch..
October 23, 2006 10:30:01 PM

Well, if you look at the overall system it has (like I posted earlier)
:arrow: 800 Mhz front side bus
:arrow: RAID0 hard drive set up with (2) 7,200 rpm drives
:arrow: 4 gigs of RAM
:arrow: Is 64 bit
:arrow: Has a 3.4 Ghz CPU
:arrow: It's an "Extremem Edition" CPU
:arrow: Has a dual lamp LCD
:arrow: The GPU is upgradable
:idea: The weak link is the video card, would be nice if it had the DELL's 512 MB Quadro card, but it is what it is.

Just because you have (2) 32 bit logical cores, doesn't mean you can overcome the simple facts that you are running
:arrow: 1 Gig of RAM
:arrow: A single 5,400 rpm hard drive

The original post was editied to include a new selection and drop the last notebook presented. The original last notebook was a Turion, now it is something different. I am not going to comment on that because we can keep changing the spec's forever to make everything written moot.

The 64 bit makes the 650 P4 the most futureproof of the bunch, the RAID0 and 4 gigs of RAM put it over the top of a T2400 core duo, if that is in fact what it is, he posts Centrino Duo and I am assuming that is what he means.

The T2xxx series was designed to take on the Turion notebook chip, I would say a T2400 can beat out maybe an ML-44 2.4 Ghz, maybe, it certainly can't take out another 1 Ghz on top of that... no way.

He states he uses it mostly for CAD and rendering. Anyone who has rendered huge files doesn't sit there "multi-tasking", you leave the thing, it churns away at it for hours, you certainly aren't going to risk crashing your project after 2 hours of rendering to post something on Tom's forum or check your email or run a virus scan.

A P4 650 can take on PLENTY of apps, I know, I had a 660 with 4 gigs of RAM in a take along CUBE system and it will smoke a T2400 if we're in the "real" world and not in the spirit world or something.

I guess at some point you just have to trust the person with the experience, or buy them both and see for yourself and show me I don't know what I am talking about.
October 24, 2006 12:16:10 AM

Good answer, and I never said you didn't know what you're talking about, only that you should debate seperate issues unrelated to the original post over PM. I'm not here to erk you.. (though i seem to excell at it) =P I only posted because it seemed odd that a P4 would be better than a CoreDuo. All of intels own info will pretty much say CD is more efficient and far superior per ghz... even toms interactive cpu guide gives credit to the idea that a core duo would trounce the p4 in multitasking and 3-d rendering.. though they don't list the 1.83... closest could be an AMD 4200x2.. But it's fudging really. Ofcourse these systems are very different, more than the cpu, and I can certainly understand why it would make a big difference now. Thanks for clearing that up some.
October 24, 2006 12:58:57 PM

Jimmy, you should come to my camp, stop frontin' for the man and get in on the grass roots revolution that is K|N.

"Goota revolution, gotta revolution."
!