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Panning in mono: What's with that?

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July 6, 2005 7:11:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I love this concept -- in theory. Is this just a phenomenon or artifact
of the way a pan pot works in mono; that is, is it an effect of gain
and/or eq that helps "find a place" for the sound in the mix; or am I
just not getting how moving a sound from speaker to speaker can work
with one speaker? So to speak, ha ha...

More about : panning mono

July 6, 2005 7:52:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

So, you can explain it?
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 12:26:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Depending on the panpot configuration, the sum of the two outputs may
not be the same at a panned position as it is when centered, so the pan
knob may actually have an effect. One could also use one of the stereo
channels as a poor man's effects send, in which case pan functions in
part as a wet/dry control.

So it's not a _completely_ stupid concept, just a bad one.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 12:57:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1120644704.993836.326970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
kyle <multimedia@vitalegacy.com> wrote:
>I love this concept -- in theory. Is this just a phenomenon or artifact
>of the way a pan pot works in mono; that is, is it an effect of gain
>and/or eq that helps "find a place" for the sound in the mix; or am I
>just not getting how moving a sound from speaker to speaker can work
>with one speaker? So to speak, ha ha...


There is no panning in mono.

Depending on your pan law, adjusting the panpot may slightly change the
level if you're summing the output to mono. This is not useful because
you can do the same thing better with the fader.

Mono consoles do not have any pan controls.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 12:59:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

It is possible that he may have been using two mics and switching to
mono to check for phase problems. If so, I don't know that panning
would be involved, unless panning both mics hard left or hard right
would have the same effect.
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 2:29:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"kyle" <multimedia@vitalegacy.com> wrote in news:1120644704.993836.326970
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> I love this concept -- in theory. Is this just a phenomenon or artifact
> of the way a pan pot works in mono; that is, is it an effect of gain
> and/or eq that helps "find a place" for the sound in the mix; or am I
> just not getting how moving a sound from speaker to speaker can work
> with one speaker? So to speak, ha ha...
>
>

Keep taking the tablets...
July 6, 2005 3:45:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"I check my panning in mono with one speaker, believe it or not. When
you pan around in mono, all of a sudden you'll find that it's coming
through now and you've found the space for it. If I want to find a
place for the hi-hat for instance, sometimes I'll go to mono and pan it
around and you'll find that it's really present all of a sudden, and
that's the spot. When you start to pan around on all your drum mics in
mono, you'll hear all the phase come together. When you go to stereo it
makes things a lot better." -- Don Smith
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 4:05:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

kyle wrote:
> "I check my panning in mono with one speaker, believe it or not. When
> you pan around in mono, all of a sudden you'll find that it's coming
> through now and you've found the space for it. If I want to find a
> place for the hi-hat for instance, sometimes I'll go to mono and pan it
> around and you'll find that it's really present all of a sudden, and
> that's the spot. When you start to pan around on all your drum mics in
> mono, you'll hear all the phase come together. When you go to stereo it
> makes things a lot better." -- Don Smith

Yes, this works very well and has been scientifically documented. It is
known as the placebo effect.
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 5:05:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

There was an " article " [ but that tells you ad driven magizine ] that a
" famous " maybe Cherney ? engineer was talking about finding the sweet
spot
for the HH mic by panning in mono .
Check in stereo again after , if nothing else reminds one to check AND
listen in Mono
and more listening isn't bad

regards Greg


"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D agkg5$fb3$1@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <1120644704.993836.326970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> kyle <multimedia@vitalegacy.com> wrote:
> >I love this concept -- in theory. Is this just a phenomenon or artifact
> >of the way a pan pot works in mono; that is, is it an effect of gain
> >and/or eq that helps "find a place" for the sound in the mix; or am I
> >just not getting how moving a sound from speaker to speaker can work
> >with one speaker? So to speak, ha ha...
>
>
> There is no panning in mono.
>
> Depending on your pan law, adjusting the panpot may slightly change the
> level if you're summing the output to mono. This is not useful because
> you can do the same thing better with the fader.
>
> Mono consoles do not have any pan controls.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 5:05:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <kGQye.1876339$6l.1636158@pd7tw2no>, GKB <gboboski@shaw.ca> wrote:
> There was an " article " [ but that tells you ad driven magizine ] that a
>" famous " maybe Cherney ? engineer was talking about finding the sweet
>spot
>for the HH mic by panning in mono .

That sounds like he's working on a console with a pan law such that the
mono level changes when you adjust the pan. And he wants to check how
that affects things.

> Check in stereo again after , if nothing else reminds one to check AND
>listen in Mono
>and more listening isn't bad

Agreed.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 7:12:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Yes, this works very well and has been scientifically documented. It is
> known as the placebo effect.

....Time for my "genius" pills...
July 7, 2005 5:24:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <dagnit$5si$1@panix2.panix.com>,
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> In article <kGQye.1876339$6l.1636158@pd7tw2no>, GKB <gboboski@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > There was an " article " [ but that tells you ad driven magizine ] that a
> >" famous " maybe Cherney ? engineer was talking about finding the sweet
> >spot
> >for the HH mic by panning in mono .
>
> That sounds like he's working on a console with a pan law such that the
> mono level changes when you adjust the pan. And he wants to check how
> that affects things.

...Or check phase differences perhaps.

>
> > Check in stereo again after , if nothing else reminds one to check AND
> >listen in Mono
> >and more listening isn't bad
>
> Agreed.
> --scott

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 5:24:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Cyrus <invalid@i.like.spam> wrote:
> kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>> In article <kGQye.1876339$6l.1636158@pd7tw2no>, GKB <gboboski@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> > There was an " article " [ but that tells you ad driven magizine ] that a
>> >" famous " maybe Cherney ? engineer was talking about finding the sweet
>> >spot
>> >for the HH mic by panning in mono .
>>
>> That sounds like he's working on a console with a pan law such that the
>> mono level changes when you adjust the pan. And he wants to check how
>> that affects things.
>
>..Or check phase differences perhaps.

No, the pan will not affect phase differences, just amplitude. That's why
we call panpotted "stereo by the name "intensity stereo" to distinguish it
from real stereo with phase differences between channels.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
July 7, 2005 6:29:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <dai2km$4jv$1@panix2.panix.com>,
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> Cyrus <invalid@i.like.spam> wrote:
> > kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> >
> >> In article <kGQye.1876339$6l.1636158@pd7tw2no>, GKB <gboboski@shaw.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >> > There was an " article " [ but that tells you ad driven magizine ] that
> >> > a
> >> >" famous " maybe Cherney ? engineer was talking about finding the sweet
> >> >spot
> >> >for the HH mic by panning in mono .
> >>
> >> That sounds like he's working on a console with a pan law such that the
> >> mono level changes when you adjust the pan. And he wants to check how
> >> that affects things.
> >
> >..Or check phase differences perhaps.
>
> No, the pan will not affect phase differences, just amplitude. That's why
> we call panpotted "stereo by the name "intensity stereo" to distinguish it
> from real stereo with phase differences between channels.
> --scott


Phase differences of a mix of "stereo" mic'ed tracks along with a
bleeder track.

As in "stereo" OH's, panning the HH track while monitoring in mono.
That's how I meant it.

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 12:51:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Cyrus <invalid@i.like.spam> wrote:
>
>
>Phase differences of a mix of "stereo" mic'ed tracks along with a
>bleeder track.

Right, but panning won't change the phase of the tracks as you move them
in.

>As in "stereo" OH's, panning the HH track while monitoring in mono.
>That's how I meant it.

Try it. The comb filtering effects won't change as you pan right to
left... they only move in position. You're still summing the same
stuff, just at different levels.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
!