segovia mic type & placement?

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SSJVCmag wrote:
> On 7/6/05 11:05 PM, in article 5dSdnUPsKKpkBlHfRVn-vw@crocker.com, "orange"
> <orange@the-spa.com> wrote:
>
> > Are there any sources out there to find out the gear & techniques used for
> > high end classical guitar recordings?
>
> You start with
> -a remarkably good player and
> -appropriate instrument.
> After that, first choice is
> -a LARGE, midlin' damped room that's REALLY quiet.
> (so quiet it HURTS)

Quiet I agree with, but large? I'd choose a medium-sized room that's
live on one end (the guitar end) and dead-ish on the other. Or a small
recital hall.

> -The most honest mic(s) you can afford.
> (omni would be grand... if cardioid then be really critical and careful)

It really depends on the playback sound. Most of the mics I've seen
used are U67s, U87s, KM84s and some Schoeps (MK4?).

> -They go back 3' or better and you place them where playback tells you to.
> I'd start with them at sitting-player-head-height and go from there.

The critical bit here is to figure out how "big" and how "close" you
want the guitar to sound in playback. But you're suggestion is probably
good for a starting point.
>
> -More important than anything else are the first 3 items.

Agreed.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

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On 7/6/05 11:05 PM, in article 5dSdnUPsKKpkBlHfRVn-vw@crocker.com, "orange"
<orange@the-spa.com> wrote:

> Are there any sources out there to find out the gear & techniques used for
> high end classical guitar recordings?

You start with
-a remarkably good player and
-appropriate instrument.
After that, first choice is
-a LARGE, midlin' damped room that's REALLY quiet.
(so quiet it HURTS)
-The most honest mic(s) you can afford.
(omni would be grand... if cardioid then be really critical and careful)
-They go back 3' or better and you place them where playback tells you to.
I'd start with them at sitting-player-head-height and go from there.

-More important than anything else are the first 3 items.
-Read preceding line repeatedly until it maddeningly,
obsessively drives your every choice.

If you get all of the first 3, the last ones are fairly easy
If you DON:T get all (-ALL-) of the first 3, the last ones are almost
immaterial.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 7/7/05 11:08 AM, in article
1120748909.008965.69820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Karl Winkler"
<karlwinkler66@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> SSJVCmag wrote:
>> On 7/6/05 11:05 PM, in article 5dSdnUPsKKpkBlHfRVn-vw@crocker.com, "orange"
>> <orange@the-spa.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Are there any sources out there to find out the gear & techniques used for
>>> high end classical guitar recordings?
>>
>> You start with
>> -a remarkably good player and
>> -appropriate instrument.
>> After that, first choice is
>> -a LARGE, midlin' damped room that's REALLY quiet.
>> (so quiet it HURTS)
>
> Quiet I agree with, but large? I'd choose a medium-sized room that's
> live on one end (the guitar end) and dead-ish on the other. Or a small
> recital hall.

I think we agree on everything here except what we are using 'large' to mean
in THIS conversation!
I was assuming the query in the context of the usual small recordist who
thinks a real living room with a 9' ceiling is 'large'.
I have to admit that IN AN EXPERIEINCED RECORDING CONTEXT if you tell me the
room is 'large', I think orchestral scoring stage.

>> -The most honest mic(s) you can afford.
>> (omni would be grand... if cardioid then be really critical and careful)
>
> It really depends on the playback sound. Most of the mics I've seen
> used are U67s, U87s, KM84s and some Schoeps (MK4?).

Indeed, but I was trying desperately to avoidn actually naming a mic while
adding in the idea of an omni which forcibly opens up a reality-level of mic
availability and afordability and the option to try and listen. IN small
rooms for acoustic guitar (or any parlor instrument) I've found a good omni
to allow closer placement and be a lot more forgiving of the artificiality
of that closer placement.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In my opinion, Blumlein is the best technique for classical guitar.
Rock solid, beautiful image, essential to place the player with you in
your listening room, between your loudspeakers. Omnis are tonally nice
but give daft uncertain image. Try the AKG C426 or the Royer SF24, and
use a small amount of omni outriggers if necessary.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"orange" wrote ...
> Are there any sources out there to find out the gear & techniques
> used for high end classical guitar recordings?

I was just watching an old LaserDisc (big, honking, 12-inch, heavy
plastic thing) of a documentary: "Andrés Segovia - The Song of the
Guitar"

The performance footage has the maestro performing in the main
courtyard of The Alhambra (Granada, Spain). He is seated at the
far entrance, on a ~6-inch wooden platform covering the floor-level
"fountain" (which they presumably turned off as I didn't hear any
significant water sounds).

While there are some "beauty shots" taken during daylight hours,
the actual performance shots appear to be done at night. Dunno
if this was for dramatic effect, but maybe to get a more quiet
ambience in which to record?

Because of the heavy shadows (actually darkness) where there
wasn't intentional production lighting, it is difficult to see what
the microphone(s?) are. There are a couple of mic stands with
folding tripod legs about 1m away from Segovia's right hand
and it looks like a large-ish mic (U47/87-size) on the one whose
profile you can see. But I didn't see any kind of suspension cage,
just the mic itself on the end of the stand, no boom.

But the sound is much closer than you would expect from any
microphone at that distance. But then, The Alhambra may be
a rather unique combination of ambient reflections and open-
air space. I can't imagine that Segovia would have been using
an instrument with any kind of acoustical pickup (no wires
visible) and the sound had too much "space" for direct pickup.

Segovia used a coles 4038 some which is a British ribbhon microphone. Sennheiser Mkh-40 and Mkh-20 microphones work wonderfully, Extremely flat. I believe the best Classical guitar recordings are made in a very good sounding large room. a big church that has a little reverb can be nice.