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changing pitch between 44.1k and 48k

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Anonymous
July 8, 2005 4:52:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have a 44.1 file that was being told to be 48k. Apparently I didn't
have my settings right when I dumped it in to my DAW. I need to change
the pitch up (speed it up) roughly a half step to make it right. What
is the pitch formula in cents to achieve the exact pitch change?

More about : changing pitch 48k

Anonymous
July 8, 2005 8:37:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

That's how this happened, I think. I was running out of my studio to a
session elsewhere, dumped a 48/24 file into Peak using s/pdif input and
clock, resulting in a 48k file. Coverted the sample rate to 44.1 to
burn an audio cd. I mut have screwed up somewhere, cuz when i got to
the session, the audio cd played back slow.

By the way, 147 cents sounds ok, but it's still not right. tempo is
still a tiny bit slow. The right amount of pitch shift must be in the
cracks.

The other thing is I remember fixing files like this before, but can't
quite come up with it for some reason. Anyone?
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 10:18:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

jonothon wrote:

> By the way, 147 cents sounds ok, but it's still not right. tempo is
> still a tiny bit slow. The right amount of pitch shift must be in the
> cracks.

If you your pitch scaling app (I assume that's what you are
using because the parameter is in cents) is set to preserve
the length, then the tempo will not be affected by the
process. If the problem was an SRC with a target rate other
than 44.1 (and ending up being labled 44.1 in the file
header) then you want to SRC again while keeping the sample
rate associated with the file at 44.1 Khz. Turning off the
"preserve length" option in your scaling app will do just
that and the pitch and tempo will change reciprocally.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Related resources
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 10:27:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"jonothon" <jonothon77@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120852368.922941.234430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> I have a 44.1 file that was being told to be 48k.
Apparently
> I didn't have my settings right when I dumped it in to my
DAW.
> I need to change the pitch up (speed it up) roughly a half
> step to make it right. What is the pitch formula in cents
to
> achieve the exact pitch change?

Much DAW software has a means for changing the sample rate
of a wav file without changing the file's audio data. It
just changes a few bits in the header. The file then has the
proper pitch, (if it ever did.) ;-)
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 12:19:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"jonothon" <jonothon77@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120865862.782008.58810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> That's how this happened, I think. I was running out of
my
> studio to a session elsewhere, dumped a 48/24 file into
Peak
> using s/pdif input and clock, resulting in a 48k file.
> Coverted the sample rate to 44.1 to burn an audio cd. I
mut
> have screwed up somewhere, cuz when i got to the session,
the
> audio cd played back slow.
>
> By the way, 147 cents sounds ok, but it's still not right.
> tempo is still a tiny bit slow. The right amount of pitch
> shift must be in the cracks.
>
> The other thing is I remember fixing files like this
before,
> but can't quite come up with it for some reason. Anyone?

It's very easy to do in Audition/CEP - the function is
called Edit, Adjust Sample Rate.

I first encountered this problem with a DAT tape that was
sent to me. The various files were recorded at some
arbitrary mixture at 44 & 48. The DAT machine was a
"consumer" device that recorded analog inputs at 48, but
recorded from its digital input at whatever sample rate the
digital data was coming in at. In this case the digital
source was a CD player, so its sample rate was 44.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 12:26:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2005 12:52:48 -0700, "jonothon" <jonothon77@gmail.com> wrote:

>I have a 44.1 file that was being told to be 48k. Apparently I didn't
>have my settings right when I dumped it in to my DAW. I need to change
>the pitch up (speed it up) roughly a half step to make it right. What
>is the pitch formula in cents to achieve the exact pitch change?

The last post in this thread derives the formula and gives the exact
(well, to 20 or so decimal places) value. It appears to be 147 cents,
or 1 semitone (a half-step) and 47 cents (slightly under 1/2 of a
half-step):

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/creative.emu.produc...
-----
http://www.mindspring.com/~benbradley
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 2:00:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"jonothon" <jonothon77@gmail.com> wrote in news:1120852368.922941.234430
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I have a 44.1 file that was being told to be 48k. Apparently I didn't
> have my settings right when I dumped it in to my DAW. I need to change
> the pitch up (speed it up) roughly a half step to make it right. What
> is the pitch formula in cents to achieve the exact pitch change?

Rather than changing the pitch, why not set it back to 44.1, then do a
proper sample rate conversion? Produces no pitch errors.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 2:41:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Cain wrote:
> Turning off the "preserve
> length" option in your scaling app will do just that and the pitch and
> tempo will change reciprocally.

Nah, not reciprocally but by the same proportion. D'oh.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 5:02:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Soundhack worked great, perfect solution, thanks
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 5:38:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Use my free utility Header Investigator if you're on XP - or SoundHack if
you're on OS X to change the sample rate in the header to match the true
sample rate of the data.

Rail
--
Recording Engineer/Software Developer
Rail Jon Rogut Software
http://www.railjonrogut.com
mailto:rail@railjonrogut.com

"jonothon" <jonothon77@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120852368.922941.234430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I have a 44.1 file that was being told to be 48k. Apparently I didn't
> have my settings right when I dumped it in to my DAW. I need to change
> the pitch up (speed it up) roughly a half step to make it right. What
> is the pitch formula in cents to achieve the exact pitch change?
>
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:54:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <GZSdneZZgoi0hVLfRVn-vA@comcast.com> arnyk@hotpop.com writes:

> It's very easy to do in Audition/CEP - the function is
> called Edit, Adjust Sample Rate.

Note the terminology - ADJUST, rather than CONVERT the sample rate.
When you convert the sample rate, you actually calculate the values of
a new set of samples taken at the new sample rate, based on
interpolating the data at the original sample rate.

Programs that play audio files can't tell anything about the sample
rate from the raw audio data, so they have to depend on information in
the file header to tell them what to do. If the wrong header data gets
written to the file (often by having the program set at one sample
rate but recording data synchronized to an external clock at another
sample rate) then the file will play at the wrong speed. To correct
this problem, you merely have to correct the header data. That's what
"Adjust Sample Rate" does.

There are file editing utilities that can be used with care to fix
this problem, and a few freeware tools floating around that are
designed to make the process less error-prone.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 4:41:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 15:52:48 -0400, jonothon wrote
(in article <1120852368.922941.234430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):

Rail,

Thanks for your generosity.


I recently reconfirmed the importance of a master clock.

I recorded a board feed to a laptop and also ran a DAT with room mics at a
club.

When I combined laptop and DAT tracks later in a Pro Tools session, I
couldn't get them to sync up. They were the right pitch, but within 30
seconds it was obvious that one was walking away from the other.

Fascinating.

Ty Ford




-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 12:29:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ty, please help me a bit here. If the sample rates are different both
the pitch and duration must be off. Were the pitches very close so the
initial sample rates only a little different? The timing error between
the two tracks would then increase with time and become more and more
apparent. Is this what you observed?

Thanks

jwvm
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 1:35:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Rail Jon Rogut" <railro@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Use my free utility Header Investigator if you're on XP


First you brought peace to my universe with your utility for allowing
other software to use my Pro Tools hardware, now this.

You are truly a nifty dood.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 4:46:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 23:29:22 -0400, imtekms@yahoo.com wrote
(in article <1120966162.595628.99100@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>):

> Ty, please help me a bit here. If the sample rates are different both
> the pitch and duration must be off. Were the pitches very close so the
> initial sample rates only a little different? The timing error between
> the two tracks would then increase with time and become more and more
> apparent. Is this what you observed?
>
> Thanks
>
> jwvm
>

Yes that's what happened. Pitches were on to my ear, no weird anaomalies when
they were mixed together. What I'm saying is that I think 44.1 on one machine
might be 44.1003 and 44.1 000275 on the other machine. (numbers are only
examples and do not indicate actual operating conditions,)

If I had a Vocalign plugin, I could probably realign the timebase of one to
another without changing pitch. Don't have it so I can't say what the outcome
would be.

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
July 11, 2005 1:53:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <nsWdnYtrVJNpzUzfRVn-oQ@comcast.com>, Ty Ford
<tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote:

> > Ty, please help me a bit here. If the sample rates are different both
> > the pitch and duration must be off. Were the pitches very close so the
> > initial sample rates only a little different? The timing error between
> > the two tracks would then increase with time and become more and more
> > apparent. Is this what you observed?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > jwvm
> >
>
> Yes that's what happened. Pitches were on to my ear, no weird anaomalies when
> they were mixed together. What I'm saying is that I think 44.1 on one machine
> might be 44.1003 and 44.1 000275 on the other machine. (numbers are only
> examples and do not indicate actual operating conditions,)
>
> If I had a Vocalign plugin, I could probably realign the timebase of one to
> another without changing pitch. Don't have it so I can't say what the outcome
> would be.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford



Ty, I had this happen in my early days of Protools. I was dumping from
multitrack into PT using Digi's SSD Sync box and, after working on some
vocals in Autotune, went to dump back to the 24 track, and the sync
would drift after 20 - 25 seconds. Hmmmm.

I found what happened to me was I forgot to change the PT sync clock to
"Internal" for the analog dump in. I had previously been dumping stuff
in digitally and it was on Digital in. Not doing that again took care
of it.

One of the nice things a Digi 192K interface does it continue blinking
at you if you try to do this, and PT even shoots a dialog box at you
saying there is no digital sync. Good hardware and software. Kinda
makes you wonder, tho, how it records supposedly without any sync,
because it will still record.



David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island

CelebrationSound@aol.com
www.CelebrationSound.com
July 12, 2005 12:08:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:46:51 -0400, Ty Ford <tyreeford@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 23:29:22 -0400, imtekms@yahoo.com wrote
>(in article <1120966162.595628.99100@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>):
>
>> Ty, please help me a bit here. If the sample rates are different both
>> the pitch and duration must be off. Were the pitches very close so the
>> initial sample rates only a little different? The timing error between
>> the two tracks would then increase with time and become more and more
>> apparent. Is this what you observed?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> jwvm
>>
>
>Yes that's what happened. Pitches were on to my ear, no weird anaomalies when
>they were mixed together. What I'm saying is that I think 44.1 on one machine
>might be 44.1003 and 44.1 000275 on the other machine. (numbers are only
>examples and do not indicate actual operating conditions,)
>
>If I had a Vocalign plugin, I could probably realign the timebase of one to
>another without changing pitch. Don't have it so I can't say what the outcome
>would be.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ty Ford
>
>
>
>-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
>stuff are at www.tyford.com

Also my experience. In a 4 mic drum situation. kick and snare on a
laptop and overheads on a portable dat machine. When I lined them up
in a DAW later it was obvious they were recorded at different rates.
Roughly 30 secs into the song the visual was off and the sound was
weird. No amount of pushing and pulling fixed it and I soon lost track
of what sounded right and what didn't. I thought 44.1k was an industry
standard and would be the same world over forever but not the case it
seems.
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 11:10:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

There are tolerances at play.. unless the clocks are tied together (ie use a
single clock) the tolerance will be different between different digital
devices. Never expect 2 (or more) systems running on their internal clocks
to be running at the same speed.

Rail
--
Recording Engineer/Software Developer
Rail Jon Rogut Software
http://www.railjonrogut.com
mailto:rail@railjonrogut.com

"spud" <ohboy@notagain.com> wrote in message
news:uhu6d19a279qrpghoneta9o0pb9g8ek7q5@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:46:51 -0400, Ty Ford <tyreeford@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 23:29:22 -0400, imtekms@yahoo.com wrote
>>(in article <1120966162.595628.99100@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>):
>>
>>> Ty, please help me a bit here. If the sample rates are different both
>>> the pitch and duration must be off. Were the pitches very close so the
>>> initial sample rates only a little different? The timing error between
>>> the two tracks would then increase with time and become more and more
>>> apparent. Is this what you observed?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> jwvm
>>>
>>
>>Yes that's what happened. Pitches were on to my ear, no weird anaomalies
>>when
>>they were mixed together. What I'm saying is that I think 44.1 on one
>>machine
>>might be 44.1003 and 44.1 000275 on the other machine. (numbers are only
>>examples and do not indicate actual operating conditions,)
>>
>>If I had a Vocalign plugin, I could probably realign the timebase of one
>>to
>>another without changing pitch. Don't have it so I can't say what the
>>outcome
>>would be.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Ty Ford
>>
>>
>>
>>-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other
>>audiocentric
>>stuff are at www.tyford.com
>
> Also my experience. In a 4 mic drum situation. kick and snare on a
> laptop and overheads on a portable dat machine. When I lined them up
> in a DAW later it was obvious they were recorded at different rates.
> Roughly 30 secs into the song the visual was off and the sound was
> weird. No amount of pushing and pulling fixed it and I soon lost track
> of what sounded right and what didn't. I thought 44.1k was an industry
> standard and would be the same world over forever but not the case it
> seems.
!