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studio under $10k

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July 14, 2005 1:29:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hey guys, just wanting to check in as to the state of the art in
budget/semi-pro recording equipment. I'm looking to put together a
portable recording setup, based around a laptop. I assume it would be
Mac and probably use Logic Pro. Main use is to record rock bands.
Please fill in the blanks with your choice of gear and the street
price:

microphones for:

snare:
kick:
overheads:
toms:
guitar amp:
bass amp:
acoustic guitar:
vocals:

mic preamp/AD converter/audio input device(would like up to 16
channels):

monitor speakers for mixing/mastering:

software plugins for mixing/mastering/sweetening:

other gear?:

Also, if you feel that the mic->preamp->laptop->plugins paradigm is
still woefully lacking and that 2"/8-track and all analog is still the
way to go, then let me know that too, with specific
gear/studio/listening suggestions. I'm in Seattle and we want to record
an album in the coming months.

Thanks guys for the advice!!!

Josh Brown
Turn to Fall - http://www.turntofall.com

More about : studio 10k

Anonymous
July 14, 2005 1:41:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

If you really want an "out of the box" instant recording setup, I would
contact Sweetwater (http://www.sweetwater.com) . They can put together
a recording kit for your purposes. A warning, though: learning how to
best use equipment takes time. Like anything, you'll probably have to
practice to start getting good sounding recordings. You might not be
able to just slap down the money and whip out an album in a month. But
if you've got the time & money to spend, it's possible...
July 14, 2005 2:53:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Kayte wrote:
> If you really want an "out of the box" instant recording setup, I would
> contact Sweetwater (http://www.sweetwater.com) . They can put together
> a recording kit for your purposes. A warning, though: learning how to
> best use equipment takes time. Like anything, you'll probably have to
> practice to start getting good sounding recordings. You might not be
> able to just slap down the money and whip out an album in a month. But
> if you've got the time & money to spend, it's possible...

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I have tons of experience with recording, just
looking for gear suggestions to put a new setup together. Don't need an
"out of the box" solution. I find it's better when you pick each piece
of gear independently to be the best for that function.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 4:08:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>I find it's better when you pick each piece
> of gear independently to be the best for that function.

Well then I guess I would recommend doing that, instead of asking what
other people think you should use. Nobody knows your needs like you do.
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 5:29:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Kayte is a Sweetwater employee, I'll wager.

Nope and am i ever glad. I hate sales. I do mastering and archival
work for a nonprofit. For some reason I get my stuff from Sweetwater.
They've served me just fine. Do you have a better recommendation?
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 6:22:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'm sort of bored at work today, so here's my wish list if I were
putting together the same thing.
I'm skipping the laptop and software as that really doesn't matter,
they all sound good, but really, if you want to be able to work with
other studios and be versatile, go with PT.
For this I'd get the 002R. $1200.
For pres, I'd use the 4 included with the 002 and grab a lunchbox of
OSA or API pres. That's going to run about $2500.
Now mics:
SD will be an sm57
kick is D112 or whatever you like here
OH would be a used pair of AKG451 mics w/ pads just in case
Toms would be original 421 mics...2 or 3?
Gtr is another 57 or two.
Bass is DI but you might want an RE20 in case you try to mic it.
Vox might be done with another 57 or maybe SM7.

This comes to roughly $2500 for mics which includes about a decent DI
box. Add about $300 more if you want something like the Avalon box
which is very nice. Don't forget mic stands which will probably run
you another $500 or so. Another $500 for cabling as well...unless you
want to use an xlr snake which will run you about that for a decent 16
channel model.

Then comes at least one decent, versatile compressor/limiter. I'd go
with the ever popular dbx 160x. Grab a few if you can. You might need
one on the vocals and a pair across something else. $300 used.

For monitoring, forget using anything but headphones. I'd go for
something that cuts more sound than others. The Sennheiser MD280 cans
do an ok job at this. $100

So, I just managed to blow $7600 on all of this which is more than
enough to grab a decent laptop and a few plugins.

Although, this list is probably of no use to you, it was fun to play
"what if" and spend this imaginary $10K. Oh, and look at the time, I
just killed 15 minutes. I'm nearly out of work now....thanks to
you....

later,
m
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 6:23:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

come on arny, you're trying to make actual sense of these
posts.....just play along. It's much more fun. ;-)
later,
m
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 8:28:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Josh" <googlemyass@undertone.com> wrote in message
news:1121358588.097798.246780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com

> Hey guys, just wanting to check in as to the state of the
art
> in budget/semi-pro recording equipment. I'm looking to put
> together a portable recording setup, based around a
laptop. I
> assume it would be Mac and probably use Logic Pro.

Why assume the most expensive way to go with the fewest
options?

BTW, do you seriously think you'll get this much SOTA gear
for just $10K?

> microphones for:

> snare:
> kick:
> overheads:
> toms:
> guitar amp:
> bass amp:
> acoustic guitar:
> vocals:

That all depends on taste and experience.

> mic preamp/AD converter/audio input device(would like up
to 16
> channels):

If you're talking Macs, then the obvious choice is probably
Metric Halo

> monitor speakers for mixing/mastering:

See former comments about taste and experience.

> software plugins for mixing/mastering/sweetening:

If you don't know what you want or why, how can anybody make
a good recommendation.

> other gear?:

Let's start with practical knowlege, experience, and taste.

> Also, if you feel that the mic->preamp->laptop->plugins
> paradigm is still woefully lacking and that 2"/8-track and
all
> analog is still the way to go, then let me know that too,
with
> specific gear/studio/listening suggestions. I'm in Seattle
and
> we want to record an album in the coming months.
>
> Thanks guys for the advice!!!

This is one of these "Is this guy for real or what?" posts.
By mentioning SOTA gear you're suggesting that you want SOTA
results, but just having the gear ain't gonna get you
anywhere near the results.

To get SOTA results you need to know all by yourself what
you want and why, and that's just near the beginning. It
takes a lot more than a bag of flour, some grease and a few
eggs to make good crepes.

In a way this post is like a guy asking for the proper
configuration of a Nextel Cup NASCAR racing car. Trust me,
if you can qualify to run Nextel Cup, you don't need to ask
anybody for advice about what equipment to buy! The race is
decided based on a lot more than mere equipment.
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 10:27:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<mwood5nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121376224.608227.129590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
> come on arny, you're trying to make actual sense of these
> posts.....just play along. It's much more fun. ;-)

My bad! ;-)
July 14, 2005 10:57:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I really doubt you'll do it for $10k especially if you want to buy Mac.

I have my doubts a laptop will handle 16 channels of audio being recorded
simultaneously too. I could be wrong on this, but that's a hell of a lot of
data to write to a 5400rpm drive (I'm talking Mac here, most PC laptop
drives are 4500rpm, though you can get fast ones). An external drive could
be an option, but every time you add something, your set up becomes less and
less portable.

If you buy a VST host application for your editing, you can get some AMAZING
free plugins, especially on the Windows platform.


R.

--
www.richiebee.ca
www.funkydory.ca

"Josh" <googlemyass@undertone.com> wrote in message
news:1121358588.097798.246780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hey guys, just wanting to check in as to the state of the art in
> budget/semi-pro recording equipment. I'm looking to put together a
> portable recording setup, based around a laptop. I assume it would be
> Mac and probably use Logic Pro. Main use is to record rock bands.
> Please fill in the blanks with your choice of gear and the street
> price:
>
> microphones for:
>
> snare:
> kick:
> overheads:
> toms:
> guitar amp:
> bass amp:
> acoustic guitar:
> vocals:
>
> mic preamp/AD converter/audio input device(would like up to 16
> channels):
>
> monitor speakers for mixing/mastering:
>
> software plugins for mixing/mastering/sweetening:
>
> other gear?:
>
> Also, if you feel that the mic->preamp->laptop->plugins paradigm is
> still woefully lacking and that 2"/8-track and all analog is still the
> way to go, then let me know that too, with specific
> gear/studio/listening suggestions. I'm in Seattle and we want to record
> an album in the coming months.
>
> Thanks guys for the advice!!!
>
> Josh Brown
> Turn to Fall - http://www.turntofall.com
>
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 12:17:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:41:21 -0700, Kayte wrote:

> If you really want an "out of the box" instant recording setup, I would
> contact Sweetwater (http://www.sweetwater.com) . They can put together a
> recording kit for your purposes.

Kayte is a Sweetwater employee, I'll wager.
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 1:04:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1121363618.089669.200200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> googlemyass@undertone.com writes:

> Sorry if I wasn't clear, I have tons of experience with recording, just
> looking for gear suggestions to put a new setup together.

Put that experience to work and go on a shopping trip. Surely someone
with tons of experience should have a couple of favorite dealers.

There will be as many suggestions as you'll see on display in any well
equipped shop. Get some idea of what's out there and ask for
advantages and disadvantages when you see something that you think you
might use.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 2:57:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> In a way this post is like a guy asking for the proper
> configuration of a Nextel Cup NASCAR racing car. Trust me,
> if you can qualify to run Nextel Cup, you don't need to ask
> anybody for advice about what equipment to buy! The race is
> decided based on a lot more than mere equipment.
>
>

Or "I am a seasoned artist... What brand of paintbrush and canvas do I need
to create a masterpiece?"
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 3:01:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
> So, I just managed to blow $7600 on all of this which is more than
> enough to grab a decent laptop and a few plugins.
>
> m
>

....Course there's nothing spent on acoustic treatments, so chances are most
of that $10K was wasted.
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 3:03:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Rich wrote:
> I really doubt you'll do it for $10k especially if you want to buy Mac.

Hm. Is anyone trying to run serious audio software on the Mac Mini?
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 9:04:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"David Grant" <NO_SPAM_PLEASE_jmd_2003@msn.com> wrote:
>
> ...Course there's nothing spent on acoustic treatments, so chances
> are most of that $10K was wasted.


Didn't the original post say "portable?" Acoustic treatments wouldn't
really fall into that category.

FWIW, I didn't think the question was all that peculiar. I didn't
bother to answer since I didn't feel like typing out a kit list, but I
don't understand the tone of the replies he's received. What's wrong
with asking what others might choose to use?

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 10:01:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"David Grant" <NO_SPAM_PLEASE_jmd_2003@msn.com> wrote in
message
news:XcydnXn-ZIoHuErfRVn-2A@rogers.com

>> In a way this post is like a guy asking for the proper
>> configuration of a Nextel Cup NASCAR racing car. Trust
me,
>> if you can qualify to run Nextel Cup, you don't need to
ask
>> anybody for advice about what equipment to buy! The race
is
>> decided based on a lot more than mere equipment.

> Or "I am a seasoned artist... What brand of paintbrush and
> canvas do I need to create a masterpiece?"

Agreed. Historically on Usenet, posts like this have traced
back to tyros or sales hacks.
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 10:06:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

for a live recording rig? You sorta just show up at the remote
location and hit "record". I don't know of too many clubs that you'll
want to redecorate.
later,
m
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 1:17:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<mwood5nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>for a live recording rig? You sorta just show up at the remote
>location and hit "record". I don't know of too many clubs that you'll
>want to redecorate.

I've done it before. Putting some carpet down and hanging a couple cheap
acoustical banners is usually not a problem. Anything more becomes a big
issue, like turning off the beer signs...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 1:20:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Rich wrote:
> I really doubt you'll do it for $10k especially if you want to buy Mac.
>
> I have my doubts a laptop will handle 16 channels of audio being recorded
> simultaneously too. I could be wrong on this, but that's a hell of a lot of
> data to write to a 5400rpm drive (I'm talking Mac here, most PC laptop
> drives are 4500rpm, though you can get fast ones). An external drive could
> be an option, but every time you add something, your set up becomes less and
> less portable.
>
> If you buy a VST host application for your editing, you can get some AMAZING
> free plugins, especially on the Windows platform.
>
>
> R.
>
A laptop shouldn't have any real difficulty. I have been using an iBook
G4 with a motu 896 and, although it's only 8 tracks, I have no doubt it
would cope with 16 or more.
As for a drive, I'd use external anyway. Just easier..
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 1:53:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<mwood5nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121432773.693717.176640@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> for a live recording rig? You sorta just show up at the remote
> location and hit "record". I don't know of too many clubs that you'll
> want to redecorate.
> later,
> m
>

He said mobile, he didn't say live. I know a few people who have mobile
recording setups and they drive in with bass traps and other
absorbers/diffusers on stands, all loaded in a van.

Dave
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 2:40:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Rich <dizNOSPAM@funkydory.ca> wrote:

> I have my doubts a laptop will handle 16 channels of audio being recorded
> simultaneously too. I could be wrong on this, but that's a hell of a lot of
> data to write to a 5400rpm drive (I'm talking Mac here, most PC laptop
> drives are 4500rpm, though you can get fast ones). An external drive could
> be an option, but every time you add something, your set up becomes less and
> less portable.

Sorry, but you are in fact wrong on this. My 1GHz Powerbook has no
trouble doing 16 channels, and I'm sure it could do a lot more. A
newer machine would do even better. As for the portability of external
Firewire or USB drives, we have some rackmount enclosures for them so
they can sit in the portable rack along with the interface, preamps,
and all the other gear. Anybody who saw our Folcrom listening set-up
at AES last fall saw a pretty decent portable rig in a smallish rack
with wheels, and the powerbook sitting on top. It turns out this rig
couldn't go on the plane in one piece but we put it back together at
SFO and brought it on the BART with us. That's pretty portable if you
ask me.


Joe Kesselman <keshlam-nospam@comcast.net> wrote:

> Hm. Is anyone trying to run serious audio software on the Mac Mini?

It shouldn't have any trouble at all. It's a pretty powerful machine,
only limited in upgrade options. But if it were me, and it very well
could be at some time in the future, I would go for the G5 iMac. WAY
more power (G5 processor, 64-bit archetecture, system bus speed several
times what's in the Mini) and once you figure in the price of all the
other stuff you'd need for the Mini (flatpanel monitor, more RAM,
keyboard, mouse, etc) they price difference is pretty small. $1800

So with the G5 iMac, I would go for the MOTU 896HD (We have one now, I
like it, and it uses firewire rather than the proprietary Audiowire
interface the MOTU 192 uses). Get two if you need 16 channels, they're
about $1000 apiece. Or better yet, get one and then get an 8-channel
ADA converter The new Lucid stuff looks great, the old Lucid stuff is
pretty good too. You can connect the external converters to the 896 by
lightpipe and now you have 16 channels of I/O plus a main stereo output
pair. On top of all that I think you could add another 2 channels in
and out with an external stereo A/D/A via AES/EBU or S/PDIF. It might
be nice to ad a Benchmark DAC1 to feed your main monitors, but you're
on a budget so you can hold off on that. The MOTU box comes with
AudioDesk software, which is mostly identical to Digital Performer so I
would start using that and consider upgrading to DP later if necessary.
$2500?

You could use the 8 preamps built into the 896 for some stuff, but I
would use external preamps through the outboard converters for the
important stuff. Get at least two channels of something nice (MP2NV),
and if your budget is running thin, fill the other six channels with
something Really Nice if you know what I mean. $3350

Microphones: Looks like you need about six SM57s and an RE20 to start
with. That'll take care of the close drum mikes and the amps. For
overheads and acoustic guitar, I like our AKG C33 stereo mike (in fact,
I record my whole band with that one mike), but they aren't too common
so you could look for something else. Stereo mikes are great though
because you can get coincident placement (XY stereo) which is very mono
compatible, without much placement hassle. Multipattern stereo mikes
are better because you can do XY, MS, and Blumlein, but the choices
there are mostly limited to fairly expensive microphones that you may
not want to bring on location and put right over a stranger swinging
hickory sticks in the air. Whatever. For a vocal mike, the choice is
obvioously very subjective and has as much to do with the singer as
with the tastes of the engineer or producer, so you'll probably need
several. I really like the Beyer M500 on a lot of voices, but your
tastes may vary. You'll probably want some big hyped-sounding
condenser mike for those voices that work well with that sound. And of
course the RE20 (and the SM57) works very nicely on those voices that
don't seem compatible with the other mikes. You didn't say whether you
want to record all the instruments simultaneously, so I'll assume this
is not a live situation and you have the sense to overdub the vocals,
which means you can get double use out of your mike collection.
$1200-2000

I personally feel that you can't (or at least you shouldn't) record pop
vocals or electric bass guitar without a hardware compressor, so I
would plan on getting at least two channels' worth. For bass, you
can't go wrong with the affordable Symetrix 501 ($150 used). For
vocals, I think I've already mentioned once or twice how I like optical
compressors. You can probably find an old BL40 for $500, or there's
the LA3A reissue for $1500, or the new ADK optical compressor.
$600-1600

For monitors, I really like the Dynaudio BM15's. I have the passive
ones, with a Hafler amp, but you could get the powered ones instead.
It sounds like you wouldn't be bringing the monitors with you on
location so maybe it doesn't matter too much. $2000

We're already overbudget, so you won't be buying any plug-ins. And you
still need cables, mike stands, headphones, equipment racks, etc.

ulysses
July 15, 2005 2:56:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks to all who posted substantive responses! My how grouchy internet
people can become. It must be the lack of sunlight.

Anyway, I got a lot of good suggestions and am looking for a few more.
Specifically, I'd like more reccomendations on the following components
in terms of what gives you the most "bang for the buck":

microphones:

I know this is highly personal. I have found enough of a quality
difference to prefer RE-20 over SM57 on guitar or bass amps always. I
have never tried them, but I have heard great things about the Royer
ribbon mics. Can anyone characterize the sound differences and offer
any other suggestions for mics/placement to try on loud, distorted,
tube guitar amps?

Someone said you can't record bass without a hardware compressor.
Please elaborate on why this is the case.

Plugins: Someone mentioned cheap/free plugins. Are any good enough to
compare to stuff like Waves? Anything cheaper than Waves that would
rival their quality for channel eq/dynamics?

Monitors: Ideally I want a monitoring system that is powered, and that
has a reputation or in your experience is relatively easy to get mixes
to translate from them to common systems. is it possible to mix in
headphones? Theoretically that would eliminate room/acoustics issues,
but I don't know if there are any headphones or canalphones that are
really accurate enough to translate.

Acoustical treatments: Can any room be signifigantly acoustically
improved for mixing/mastering by simply putting a bass trap in the room
or by some other reasonably portable/inexpensive/easy means? I'm not
asking if it can be made perfect, just signifigantly improved.

Overhead mics for drum kit: I have a pair of Oktava MK-012s. Are these
good enough? Suggestions as to placement? Is it advisable to close mic
cymbals or just to use a stereo pair for all cymbals? I've heard of a
modification for these mics that rolls the bass down a little bit. Is
there a reason to get this done and not to just filter out the bass in
the mix with a plugin?

Preamps: I currently have a Presonus Digimax LT. Anything under $2000
for 8 channels that beats it? RNPs?

Thanks y'all! If I had time to audition every component myself that
would be great. Instead, I'll have to take y'all's words for it. The
more descriptive you can be (adjectives like "warm" and "punchy"
actually are ok with me, I know what you mean) the better. Thanks
again!!!!

-Josh
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 4:06:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <itHBe.92083$wr.36206@clgrps12> Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca writes:

> FWIW, I didn't think the question was all that peculiar.

It's actualy becoming rather common, which is a bit distressing.

> I didn't
> bother to answer since I didn't feel like typing out a kit list, but I
> don't understand the tone of the replies he's received. What's wrong
> with asking what others might choose to use?

Too much information, not enough filtering. All of the ad mags have an
issue about once a year on "our picks for the best studio for $X, $Y,
and $Z." That should be a good start. While they tend to select from
products that they've reviewed and are most likely advertisers, that's
probably a good baseline for a first time buyer. You don't want to
turn someone without the experience to appreciate an esoteric mic or
preamp that's recommended by only two people in different corners of
the globe (but which, of course "smokes" everything else).

We've always avoided putting "the recommended r.a.p. studio" in the
FAQ because things change so fast, and so do opinions about what
sounds good, and what's a good sound.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
July 15, 2005 4:06:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike, it's funny you say that you've avoided putting the recommended
rap studio in the faq b/c things change so fast, but in reality a list
from about 1970 would still work today as a basic starting point:

SM57
Neuman U series vox mics
API
Neve
dbx 160 series
Lexicon reverbs
AKG D12 or 112 on kick
Sennheiser 421 mics......I could go on. It's the same building blocks
we've always used. Sure some things are changing blazingly fast, but
really, the don't. What's the number one DAW for the past 15+ years?
Pro Tools. It comes in many different flavors now, but it's still the
one.
The interface's and converters are the one place where the list would
really be obsolete as soon as it's posted, but that can always be a
disclaimer.

A list like the most common, basic setups might be a good idea. I
realize this is done in most of the recording books, but considering
the number of questions posted on the subject, maybe listing it here
would be beneficial.


....just my .02....
later,
m
Anonymous
July 16, 2005 1:18:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1121450210.972449.103700@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> googlemyass@undertone.com writes:

> Someone said you can't record bass without a hardware compressor.
> Please elaborate on why this is the case.

You can more easily record a bad bass or a bad bass player if you
set up for 6 to 10 dB of compression on peaks. Some people think you
can't record anything without compression. And there are a lot of bad
basses and bad bass players. Is that elaborate enough for you?

In other words, nonsense!

> Plugins: Someone mentioned cheap/free plugins. Are any good enough to
> compare to stuff like Waves? Anything cheaper than Waves that would
> rival their quality for channel eq/dynamics?

They're all different. The advantage of plug-ins, particularly free
ones, is that it's easy to accumulate so many of them that you never
really get to learn what they all sound like under all circumstances.
So you either eventually just use a few of them (which usually turn
out to be the more expensive commercial ones, because they tend to
work most of the time) or you waste a lot of time on each project
playing with all your toys and trying to find creative ways to use
plug-ins that you haven't used before. It's one way of keeping your
mixes fresh and different. Not to knock free or cheap plug-ins. I'm
sure there are some gems out there.

If you use hardware processors, you get to know them better because
you don't have an unlimited stash of them, and they're more prescious.

> Monitors: Ideally I want a monitoring system that is powered, and that
> has a reputation or in your experience is relatively easy to get mixes
> to translate from them to common systems.

Everybody wants that. But the best monitors in the world are going to
be compromised by putting them in a bad room. And the worst monitors
in the world can still sound their best in a good room. And since no
two people have the same room, you'll find widely differing opinions
of the same monitors. Pick something that makes you, personally,
comfortable, and treat your room so that you're getting all you can
out of them. It's easy to go wrong with room acoustics, but you're not
likely to go wrong with any decent monitor in a good room. There are
differences, of course, but they tend to get described in subtle
terms, and you can live with any of them.

> is it possible to mix in headphones?

Of course it's possible, but most people can't do it very well. It's
what we have to do when doing live mixes on location where we can't
set up monitors, but even simple speakers on a table in a room away
from the action are prefereable to most people.

> Acoustical treatments: Can any room be signifigantly acoustically
> improved for mixing/mastering by simply putting a bass trap in the room
> or by some other reasonably portable/inexpensive/easy means?

Yes, but you need to figure out what you need to do, not just go out
and buy a bass trap and carry it into the room. There are some good
resources available today that let you do a decent job for not too
much money, and without having to hire a high priced architectual
acoustic consulatant. But save a couple of grand in your budget for
this. Don't figure on going to Home Depot and picking up a roll of
insulation to improve your room after you've spent nearly all of your
ten grand. Remember, once you get your room in good listening shape,
you can improve it further by getting better monitors, and you'll
really be able to hear the improvement that a better monitor makes.

> Overhead mics for drum kit: I have a pair of Oktava MK-012s. Are these
> good enough?

For most people, yet.

> Suggestions as to placement? Is it advisable to close mic
> cymbals or just to use a stereo pair for all cymbals?

It depends on the drums, the drummer, and the song. I'm getting the
sense that you see this as a set of technical solutions, not a musical
craft. It's all about the music. You set something up, record, listen,
and decide what, if anything, needs to be changed to work with the
song. This goes for any instrument, not just drums.

> Preamps: I currently have a Presonus Digimax LT. Anything under $2000
> for 8 channels that beats it? RNPs?

Probably. Maybe a Mackie Onyx 800R. I don't know of any shootouts, but
what you have will probably do.

> Thanks y'all! If I had time to audition every component myself that
> would be great. Instead, I'll have to take y'all's words for it.

Well, for gosh sakes, at least audition monitors and get your room
sounding decent. Then you can properly evaluate anything else that
comes along and learn who's concept of what sounds "smooth" or "warm"
or "punchy"concurs with yours.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
July 16, 2005 1:18:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1121451083.086786.34300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> mwood5nospam@yahoo.com writes:

> Mike, it's funny you say that you've avoided putting the recommended
> rap studio in the faq b/c things change so fast, but in reality a list
> from about 1970 would still work today as a basic starting point:
>
> SM57
> Neuman U series vox mics
> API
> Neve
> dbx 160 series
> Lexicon reverbs
> AKG D12 or 112 on kick
> Sennheiser 421 mics......I could go on.

That's exactly right, but put in that list and people will constantly
be asking if something else wouldn't be better. Besides, if you used
those classic building blocks, you'd bust most people's modern
expected budgets.

> The interface's and converters are the one place where the list would
> really be obsolete as soon as it's posted, but that can always be a
> disclaimer.

Mics and speakers, too. And should you use a Lexicon reverb or dbx
compressor, or just get the plug-ins? Should you use a mixer or just
mix in ProTools?

> A list like the most common, basic setups might be a good idea. I
> realize this is done in most of the recording books, but considering
> the number of questions posted on the subject, maybe listing it here
> would be beneficial.

How about a pointer to the latest magazines that have their "best
studio for $XXXX" articles on line?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 4:57:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Josh wrote:
<snip>

real quick I'll throw some stuff out there that I like and/or have done
a ton of research on

software:
Cubase SX
Reason

Mics:
MK012 drum OH, stereo mic'ing strings (get a pair)
AT4060 for vocals and everything else
SM57 for almost everything (at least two)
Audix D6 (for kick)
RE20 (kicking plus lotsa others)
AT3031 (again a pair...these get great reviews)
AKG 414 is a great one also, more of a standard than anything
I've heard great things about the Rode NT2

Pres:
Can never have too many RNP's IMHO

Mixer:
I like my Mackie 1604vlz but would prolly get one of the new allen &
heath's if I could afford it. A very knowleadgeable gentlemen said
yamaha makes the best bang/buck console.

Outboard gear:

well since I can't normally afford fancy outboard stuff I mostly use
software DSP....I do have an RNC tho just because of the rave reviews it
gets, and it's so cheap....a headphone mixer would be good

Monitors:
I've got custom built LS3/5A's....but these are pricey and the new stuff
is better for studio applications (maybe not listening tho)....I would
get a pair of Mackie HR824's personally.
Also, buy a pair of Sony MDR-7506's because they are to monitors what
the SM57 is to microphones...a standard and a reference

Soundcard:
MOTU makes great stuff, hammerfall also and one I can't remember. I
really think M-Audio is the best bang/buck. I own the Delta 1010 (not
lt) and it's great. At some point I might upgrade to an 002 rack...but
it's overpriced and I'd rather have a choice of pre-amps.

Cables:
Don't buy the cheap stuff and don't buy the gimmicky monster
cables....look for mogami or really anything that has neutrik or
switchcraft connectors and high quality cable....again, no monster, no
cheapies...also leave sum $ left over for little stuff like adapters and
whanot.

Also would be really cool to have one of these (my next purchase) for
field recording: http://www.audiomidi.com/

You might want to spend the rest of the money (assuming there is any
left over) on room treatments. Anyway, just a few ideas....but don't
take my word for it. I think if you research these things you'll find
the generally very well-recieved. Lord knows I don't buy anything for my
studio without doing my research. Cheers, good luck!

Jonny Durango
!