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Anyone here from the UK ?

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July 16, 2005 12:46:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi,

I have some analog recorders and mixers that I wish to transport
overseas to the UK. My question: How difficult is it to find Step UP /
DOWN Voltage Transformers in the UK (England & Scotland to be exact) ?
I'm talking about something that can power a couple of pieces of gear
at once (with an additional "power bar" of course). Something like
this:

http://tinyurl.com/aww8a

Does it make any economic sense to order this when I can get something
similar locally in the UK ? Please advise.

Thank you,

Daniel

More about : question

July 16, 2005 12:46:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for the quick reply guys! Always appreciated :) )

The recorders that I have (don't laugh ;)  ) are 2 TEAC 3440's and a
TASCAM 388. The rest is just mixers and stuff. A TASCAM guy told me
that the capstan is DC in all of these machines and so I don't need to
worry about the whole 50/60 Hz thing .....
Anonymous
July 16, 2005 12:46:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Pooh Bear wrote:

> You won't find what you need in high street shops or even the large DIY
> type stores IME.

How about Maplin:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/search.aspx?MenuNo=365&MenuName...

It's a high-street shop, more so every day...


> I just measured my supply here and it's 252V. I'm used to seeing 243V in
> the office / lab.

I never see anything like that here, 234V at the moment.

Alex
Related resources
Anonymous
July 16, 2005 12:59:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:46:38 GMT, Daniel <NotRealEmail@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have some analog recorders and mixers that I wish to transport
>overseas to the UK. My question: How difficult is it to find Step UP /
>DOWN Voltage Transformers in the UK (England & Scotland to be exact) ?
>I'm talking about something that can power a couple of pieces of gear
>at once (with an additional "power bar" of course). Something like
>this:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/aww8a
>
>Does it make any economic sense to order this when I can get something
>similar locally in the UK ? Please advise.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Daniel

You can buy all that sort of stuff over here, eg:

http://www.eurobatteries.com/sitepages/power-adaptors-a...

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
Anonymous
July 16, 2005 2:39:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have some analog recorders and mixers that I wish to transport
> overseas to the UK.

Are the recorders based on DC motors? You might get some interesting
effects if they're AC, since the mains frequency will be different.

Depending on the model, you might find that they are switchable anyway
(sometimes the voltage selector is internal).

>
> Daniel

--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- jpm@it-he.org
Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
Anonymous
July 16, 2005 2:43:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have some analog recorders and mixers that I wish to transport
> overseas to the UK. My question: How difficult is it to find Step UP /
> DOWN Voltage Transformers in the UK (England & Scotland to be exact) ?
> I'm talking about something that can power a couple of pieces of gear
> at once (with an additional "power bar" of course). Something like
> this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/aww8a
>
> Does it make any economic sense to order this when I can get something
> similar locally in the UK ? Please advise.

You won't find what you need in high street shops or even the large DIY
type stores IME.

As Don suggested you'll need to go to a specialist.

That sorts the voltage. You haven't mentioned frequency though.

We're on 50 Hz, you're on 60 Hz. I don't know what age recorder you're
referring to but those using induction motors for the capstan will run at
different speeds on 50 and 60 Hz.. No point at all bringing over a unit
where that is the case.

There's another aspect about frequency. Any unit using a 'conventional
psu' with a line frequency transformer will draw more magnetising currrent
@ 50Hz compared to 60Hz.. If the equipement has 50-60Hz on the rating
plate then the maker thought of it. If it only says 60Hz you may
experience problems with the transformer over-heating. In extreme cases it
may actually saturate the core and you'll hear a loud hum.

To make matter worse, the UK 240V supply is often higher than 240V. This
further exaggerates any problem due to using a 60Hz transformer on 50Hz.

I just measured my supply here and it's 252V. I'm used to seeing 243V in
the office / lab.

So, a few things to consider but mainly do-able.

Graham


p.s. any equipment with 'universal input' switchmode supplies will run
just fine on the normal UK supply
Anonymous
July 16, 2005 3:29:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel <NotRealEmail@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I have some analog recorders and mixers that I wish to transport
>overseas to the UK. My question: How difficult is it to find Step UP /
>DOWN Voltage Transformers in the UK (England & Scotland to be exact) ?

They are very easy to find. Maplin has a reasonable selection of the
cheap autotransformer kind. If you want real transformers with isolating
secondaries they are a bit more expensive but not hard to find.

You may find much of your gear, however, can easily be converted to
240V operation without much work inside.

And you may find that your recorders have problems if they have synchronous
capstan motors.... they will not run at the correct speed on 50 Hz mains.

>Does it make any economic sense to order this when I can get something
>similar locally in the UK ? Please advise.

No, and they are generally cheaper in the UK and Europe than they are here.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
July 17, 2005 5:49:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Again, thanks very much for the links and all the info!

I'm really dumb as a door nail when it comes to in-depth knowledge of
electronics so please bear with me .... How do I know I've got
"synchronous" motors ?

Here's what I can tell you about the motors of each of the recorders
(from the manual):

(1) TASCAM 388 - 1 FG servo DC capstan motor, 2 DC servo reel motors
(2) TEAC 3440 - 1 DC servo capstan motor, 2 Eddy current induction reel
motors
(3) TASCAM 244 - 1 FG servo controlled DC capstan motor, 1 DC reel
motor, 1 DC control motor

Other stuff that I have is just mixers with VU meters so I assume
frequency won't matter as much as changing voltage with a step down
transformer.

~Daniel
Anonymous
July 17, 2005 12:57:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 17 Jul 2005 01:49:05 -0700, "Daniel" <sivlee@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Again, thanks very much for the links and all the info!
>
>I'm really dumb as a door nail when it comes to in-depth knowledge of
>electronics so please bear with me .... How do I know I've got
>"synchronous" motors ?
>
>Here's what I can tell you about the motors of each of the recorders
>(from the manual):
>
>(1) TASCAM 388 - 1 FG servo DC capstan motor, 2 DC servo reel motors
>(2) TEAC 3440 - 1 DC servo capstan motor, 2 Eddy current induction reel
>motors
>(3) TASCAM 244 - 1 FG servo controlled DC capstan motor, 1 DC reel
>motor, 1 DC control motor
>
>Other stuff that I have is just mixers with VU meters so I assume
>frequency won't matter as much as changing voltage with a step down
>transformer.
>
>~Daniel

That's all fine. You can stop worrying.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
Anonymous
July 17, 2005 6:24:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:

> Again, thanks very much for the links and all the info!
>
> I'm really dumb as a door nail when it comes to in-depth knowledge of
> electronics so please bear with me .... How do I know I've got
> "synchronous" motors ?
>
> Here's what I can tell you about the motors of each of the recorders
> (from the manual):
>
> (1) TASCAM 388 - 1 FG servo DC capstan motor, 2 DC servo reel motors
> (2) TEAC 3440 - 1 DC servo capstan motor, 2 Eddy current induction reel
> motors
> (3) TASCAM 244 - 1 FG servo controlled DC capstan motor, 1 DC reel
> motor, 1 DC control motor

They're fine.


> Other stuff that I have is just mixers with VU meters so I assume
> frequency won't matter as much as changing voltage with a step down
> transformer.

Apart from the 50/60 Hz issue I mentioned with regard to transformer
overheating. Did you check the rated frequency on the back of your
equipment ?

Graham
July 17, 2005 6:38:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On the back of the mixers and recorders (on the plates) it says 60Hz
BUT in the example of the 3440, when I looked at the 2 reel motors
inside, they are stamped as having 50/60Hz. As you can see, what's on
the outside of the machine may not tell the whole story.
July 17, 2005 6:40:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Graham, did you mean for the mixers ?
July 17, 2005 7:49:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

How can I check and be 100% sure that the transformer overheating will
be a non-issue for me ? I don't want to go by only the 60Hz indicated
on the back of my machines/mixers but by something more concrete ... Is
there a way to find out for sure ?

Thanks,

Daniel
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 2:03:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1121636299.603695.56390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Daniel <sivlee@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On the back of the mixers and recorders (on the plates) it says 60Hz
>BUT in the example of the 3440, when I looked at the 2 reel motors
>inside, they are stamped as having 50/60Hz. As you can see, what's on
>the outside of the machine may not tell the whole story.

That just means the reel motors can run off 50 Hz... it doesn't mean
that the electronics can.

The electronics are _probably_ fine, but do watch out for overheating.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 3:56:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> You may find much of your gear, however, can easily be converted to
> 240V operation without much work inside.


I have internally converted "110v only" stuff before using an ordinary dual
primary toroidal transformer as an autotransformer. Connect 240 accross both
primaries in series as normal, then take the 110 from just one of the
primaries. Ignore and make safe the secondaries and make sure the ratings
are high enough. The main problem is finding room inside the equipment to
mount the thing. No chance in 1U units but some of the larger boxes have
eough space left.


Gareth.
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 7:39:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:

> How can I check and be 100% sure that the transformer overheating will
> be a non-issue for me ? I don't want to go by only the 60Hz indicated
> on the back of my machines/mixers but by something more concrete ... Is
> there a way to find out for sure ?

Provided that the internals won't be harmed in the process, you can
simulate the same effect on the transformer by increasing the input voltage
by 20%. i.e. use 144V.

If it starts mechanically humming you have a problem.


Graham
July 20, 2005 8:35:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Alright, thanks again guys! Much appreciated info!

Btw, how difficult is it to locally find a "clean" 4 - 8 track
multitracker (for home recording) in the UK ?

~Daniel
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 11:20:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:

> Alright, thanks again guys! Much appreciated info!
>
> Btw, how difficult is it to locally find a "clean" 4 - 8 track
> multitracker (for home recording) in the UK ?

Assuming you're talking about an analogue recorder (since you're on the
HomeRecording Analog board), here's a few suggestions:

1. www.ebay.co.uk - Obviously you'll have to wait until something reasonably
local to you turns up and pounce on it, and you still might get a lemon
unless you arrange to view it.

2. Sound On Sound magazine - classifieds (online) and there are also a few
gear brokers listed in the back.

3. www.gearonline.co.uk

4. www.electrofix.com - in Bristol. This guy is ex-Teac, and does
servicing. He also sells recorders, although of late he has tended to put
them straight on to e-bay.

> ~Daniel

--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- jpm@it-he.org
Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
July 23, 2005 4:50:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

J. P. Morris wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
>
> > Alright, thanks again guys! Much appreciated info!
> >
> > Btw, how difficult is it to locally find a "clean" 4 - 8 track
> > multitracker (for home recording) in the UK ?
>
> Assuming you're talking about an analogue recorder (since you're on the
> HomeRecording Analog board), here's a few suggestions:
>
> 1. www.ebay.co.uk - Obviously you'll have to wait until something reasonably
> local to you turns up and pounce on it, and you still might get a lemon
> unless you arrange to view it.
>
> 2. Sound On Sound magazine - classifieds (online) and there are also a few
> gear brokers listed in the back.
>
> 3. www.gearonline.co.uk
>
> 4. www.electrofix.com - in Bristol. This guy is ex-Teac, and does
> servicing. He also sells recorders, although of late he has tended to put
> them straight on to e-bay.
>
> > ~Daniel
>
> --
> JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- jpm@it-he.org
> Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
> Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
> d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
> uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)

Are you "Dragon" from the HomeRecording.com board ? That would explain
you knowing then .. ;) )) Anyway, thanks so much for the links and info!
A GOLD MINE! Thanks again!

Daniel
July 23, 2005 5:59:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

J. P. Morris wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > J. P. Morris wrote:
> >
> > Are you "Dragon" from the HomeRecording.com board ?
>
> No, that nick comes from another newsgroup. I'm 'jpmorris' on
> homerecording.


Cool! But how did you know it was me ?




>
> > That would explain
> > you knowing then .. ;) )) Anyway, thanks so much for the links and info!
> > A GOLD MINE! Thanks again!
> >
> > Daniel
>
> --
> JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- jpm@it-he.org
> Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
> Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
> d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
> uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 1:10:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:

>
>
> J. P. Morris wrote:
>
> Are you "Dragon" from the HomeRecording.com board ?

No, that nick comes from another newsgroup. I'm 'jpmorris' on
homerecording.

> That would explain
> you knowing then .. ;) )) Anyway, thanks so much for the links and info!
> A GOLD MINE! Thanks again!
>
> Daniel

--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- jpm@it-he.org
Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 8:30:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:

> Alright, thanks again guys! Much appreciated info!
>
> Btw, how difficult is it to locally find a "clean" 4 - 8 track
> multitracker (for home recording) in the UK ?

What tape format ?

Graham
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 8:33:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:

>
>
> J. P. Morris wrote:
>> Daniel wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > J. P. Morris wrote:
>> >
>> > Are you "Dragon" from the HomeRecording.com board ?
>>
>> No, that nick comes from another newsgroup. I'm 'jpmorris' on
>> homerecording.
>
> Cool! But how did you know it was me ?
>

Because you posted the frequency/voltage question in both places ;-)


--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- jpm@it-he.org
Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
July 26, 2005 5:09:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

J. P. Morris wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > J. P. Morris wrote:
> >> Daniel wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > J. P. Morris wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Are you "Dragon" from the HomeRecording.com board ?
> >>
> >> No, that nick comes from another newsgroup. I'm 'jpmorris' on
> >> homerecording.
> >
> > Cool! But how did you know it was me ?
> >
>
> Because you posted the frequency/voltage question in both places ;-)

shhhh!... ;) 


>
>
> --
> JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- jpm@it-he.org
> Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
> Reign of the Just - An Ultima clone http://rotj.it-he.org
> d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KAW u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
> uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
July 26, 2005 6:02:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Pooh Bear wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
>
> > Alright, thanks again guys! Much appreciated info!
> >
> > Btw, how difficult is it to locally find a "clean" 4 - 8 track
> > multitracker (for home recording) in the UK ?
>
> What tape format ?

1/4" tape is my fav, either full, 1/2 or 1/4 track. Of course 8 track
1/2" tape would also be nice but I like the 1/4" format.




>
> Graham
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 2:25:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel <sivlee@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Pooh Bear wrote:
>> Daniel wrote:
>>
>> > Alright, thanks again guys! Much appreciated info!
>> >
>> > Btw, how difficult is it to locally find a "clean" 4 - 8 track
>> > multitracker (for home recording) in the UK ?
>>
>> What tape format ?
>
>1/4" tape is my fav, either full, 1/2 or 1/4 track. Of course 8 track
>1/2" tape would also be nice but I like the 1/4" format.

Well, if you want 4 track 1/4", you don't have your choice of quarter
or half track... you get four-track format which is not either.

Frankly, most of the 4-track 1/4" machines were things I would not
wish on my worst enemy, but Studer/Revox made one that was okay and
might turn up occasionally in Europe.

1/4" 8-track is just a really, really bad idea. 1/2" 8-track is cheesy
enough. And again, Studer Revox made some consumer-grade 1/2" 8-track
machines that you might be able to find out there. Tascam made some
later machines in that format, like TSR-8, that are usable.

There is a lot of consumer narrowtrack gear out there, but most of it
is pretty dreadful. And the thing is that the trash machines aren't
really much cheaper than a 1/2" 4-track 440B or something.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 4:40:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel wrote:

> Pooh Bear wrote:
> > Daniel wrote:
> >
> > > Alright, thanks again guys! Much appreciated info!
> > >
> > > Btw, how difficult is it to locally find a "clean" 4 - 8 track
> > > multitracker (for home recording) in the UK ?
> >
> > What tape format ?
>
> 1/4" tape is my fav, either full, 1/2 or 1/4 track. Of course 8 track
> 1/2" tape would also be nice but I like the 1/4" format.

Just curious. I have an old 1" 8 track I don't use.

Graham
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 5:35:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:40:59 +0100, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Daniel wrote:
>
>> Pooh Bear wrote:
>> > Daniel wrote:
>> >
>> > > Alright, thanks again guys! Much appreciated info!
>> > >
>> > > Btw, how difficult is it to locally find a "clean" 4 - 8 track
>> > > multitracker (for home recording) in the UK ?
>> >
>> > What tape format ?
>>
>> 1/4" tape is my fav, either full, 1/2 or 1/4 track. Of course 8 track
>> 1/2" tape would also be nice but I like the 1/4" format.
>
> Just curious. I have an old 1" 8 track I don't use.
>
> Graham
>

It wouldn't be a Brennel Mini 8 by any chance?

Cheers.

James.
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 9:48:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

James Perrett wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:40:59 +0100, Pooh Bear
> <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Daniel wrote:
> >
> >> Pooh Bear wrote:
> >> > Daniel wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Alright, thanks again guys! Much appreciated info!
> >> > >
> >> > > Btw, how difficult is it to locally find a "clean" 4 - 8 track
> >> > > multitracker (for home recording) in the UK ?
> >> >
> >> > What tape format ?
> >>
> >> 1/4" tape is my fav, either full, 1/2 or 1/4 track. Of course 8 track
> >> 1/2" tape would also be nice but I like the 1/4" format.
> >
> > Just curious. I have an old 1" 8 track I don't use.
> >
> > Graham
>
> It wouldn't be a Brennel Mini 8 by any chance?

Soundcraft Magnetics actually.

Graham
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 9:51:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Daniel <sivlee@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Pooh Bear wrote:
> >> Daniel wrote:
> >>
> >> > Alright, thanks again guys! Much appreciated info!
> >> >
> >> > Btw, how difficult is it to locally find a "clean" 4 - 8 track
> >> > multitracker (for home recording) in the UK ?
> >>
> >> What tape format ?
> >
> >1/4" tape is my fav, either full, 1/2 or 1/4 track. Of course 8 track
> >1/2" tape would also be nice but I like the 1/4" format.
>
> Well, if you want 4 track 1/4", you don't have your choice of quarter
> or half track... you get four-track format which is not either.
>
> Frankly, most of the 4-track 1/4" machines were things I would not
> wish on my worst enemy, but Studer/Revox made one that was okay and
> might turn up occasionally in Europe.
>
> 1/4" 8-track is just a really, really bad idea. 1/2" 8-track is cheesy
> enough. And again, Studer Revox made some consumer-grade 1/2" 8-track
> machines that you might be able to find out there. Tascam made some
> later machines in that format, like TSR-8, that are usable.
>
> There is a lot of consumer narrowtrack gear out there, but most of it
> is pretty dreadful. And the thing is that the trash machines aren't
> really much cheaper than a 1/2" 4-track 440B or something.

I'd expect the heads on most of that consumer stuff to be totally shot to
hell by now. I suspect replacements may be hard to come by, never mind the
difficulty of finding a tech to replace them and set them up properly .

Graham
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 9:51:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> There is a lot of consumer narrowtrack gear out there, but most of it
>> is pretty dreadful. And the thing is that the trash machines aren't
>> really much cheaper than a 1/2" 4-track 440B or something.
>
>I'd expect the heads on most of that consumer stuff to be totally shot to
>hell by now. I suspect replacements may be hard to come by, never mind the
>difficulty of finding a tech to replace them and set them up properly .

No, that's the thing about consumer gear. A lot of folks bought those
machines and never used them, or used them very lightly. Of course, all
the rubber is bad and the caps are going bad and all the lousy wave soldering
on the Tascam boards is coming back to haunt them, but there are a lot
of them out there that have hardly moved any tape.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
July 27, 2005 5:35:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >
> >> There is a lot of consumer narrowtrack gear out there, but most of it
> >> is pretty dreadful. And the thing is that the trash machines aren't
> >> really much cheaper than a 1/2" 4-track 440B or something.
> >
> >I'd expect the heads on most of that consumer stuff to be totally shot to
> >hell by now. I suspect replacements may be hard to come by, never mind the
> >difficulty of finding a tech to replace them and set them up properly .
>
> No, that's the thing about consumer gear. A lot of folks bought those
> machines and never used them, or used them very lightly. Of course, all
> the rubber is bad and the caps are going bad and all the lousy wave soldering
> on the Tascam boards is coming back to haunt them, but there are a lot
> of them out there that have hardly moved any tape.
> --scott

You're right on Scott, 'cause I got 3 machines for about 10 cents on
the dollar which have had minimal use at best. The 2, 3440's I got with
remotes, manuals, reels etc ... have had practically no use with tape
lifters showing hardly any flat spots. One would need a magnifying
glass to see 'em. The poor guy that sold one of them to me didn't know
that the "tape cue" lifter was to be down all the time with normal
playback/record. He kept it UP so when he played, recorded or FF/REW,
the tape was in contact with the heads!!!! He also used those bad shed
70's Ampex tapes so pretty much the heads were covered with brown
oxide, that had hardened over time. I went through tons of cotton pads
and alcohol to clean it all up! Thankfully, he recorded no more than a
dozen hrs on the machine. Still I am aware of the caps and all that
stuff but when all I ever wanted is open reel for my home recording
project and found these cheap and 1/4" tape cheap and the good sound
quality + all the ease and fun, that I was never able to obtain with
consumer grade digital gear costing many times what I had paid for
these older analog machines, I was very content. The TASCAM 388, while
having 1/4" tape and 8 tracks, definitely made be think before hand if
this was a good idea. However, I was fortunately enought to listen to
some covers of Beatles songs that a friend of mine did on the 388 and
was amazed how good the sound was. Again, I am certain that an 8 track,
1" reel would DEFINTELY sound bigger than life but I think something
could be said about something like the machines I mentioned. Btw, the
388 was in an unused cond, perfect heads and a full sized mixer with 3
band parametric eq etc ... For pro-sumer gear I really do believe you
can't beat that or at the very least that's high up there for pro-sumer
stuff. I mean, I love the big buttons, VU's, motors turning, tape, etc
.... etc ... and am able to get a more pleasing sound than any, and I
mean ANY of the prosumer digital units out-there. But I really do
prefer the old fashioned way of recording to Analog. Still, I would
love to get some of the gear you propose, like the 1", 8 track and
similar. I'd probably like 1/2" inch 4 track if these are available
....... Anyway, sorry to ramble on like that ....

Daniel



> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
July 27, 2005 5:40:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
1/2" 4-track 440B or something.
> --scott

Yeah, that'd be cool to have! The only thing which kinda makes me
hesitant is getting a machine that I'd have to "bring to life". The
only thing that I know how to do well is clean the heads, pinch roller
(with the right chemicals of course) and change belts. Other than that
I don't know ....
July 27, 2005 5:42:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Pooh Bear wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
>
> > Pooh Bear wrote:
> > > Daniel wrote:
> > >
> > > > Alright, thanks again guys! Much appreciated info!
> > > >
> > > > Btw, how difficult is it to locally find a "clean" 4 - 8 track
> > > > multitracker (for home recording) in the UK ?
> > >
> > > What tape format ?
> >
> > 1/4" tape is my fav, either full, 1/2 or 1/4 track. Of course 8 track
> > 1/2" tape would also be nice but I like the 1/4" format.
>
> Just curious. I have an old 1" 8 track I don't use.
>
> Graham

Sure I would be interested. I mean is it in good working and cosmetic
condition ? Hey, all I know is TEAC/TASCAM so this may be a challenge.
I'd love to get something that I can use out of the box ready ... Btw,
what model is that ?

Thanks for letting me know Graham!

Daniel
July 27, 2005 6:40:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Btw, guys, one of my 3440's, the older one judging from the serial #,
has audible "tape gravel" and not just constant hiss when you turn the
volume up high. I can actually hear the tape travelling on the heads,
kinda like a "gurgling" sound, getting slower when the tape slows and
faster when the tape goes faster, on playback. It's barely audible when
normal operations are perfomed but I can really hear it when I get to a
part on the tape when it's blank and then I turn up the volume to hear
the hiss and then I hear that "tape gravel" sound. Anyone have an idea
what it could be ? Outside of this, the machine records and reproduces
very well.
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 1:24:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel <sivlee@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
> 1/2" 4-track 440B or something.
>
>Yeah, that'd be cool to have! The only thing which kinda makes me
>hesitant is getting a machine that I'd have to "bring to life". The
>only thing that I know how to do well is clean the heads, pinch roller
>(with the right chemicals of course) and change belts. Other than that
>I don't know ....

So call up Funky Junk and have them send a refurbished machine over.
You'll pay for their cleaning it up, but that might be worth it to you.

For the most part, the machines are available for a song, but the
maintenance, unless you do it yourself, is a lot of money. And most
of the studio machines _have_ had a hard life, so there is usually some
maintenance to be done. It's well worth it, though. The difference
between standard 1/2" 4-track and the narrowtrack consumer formats is amazing.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 1:25:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel <sivlee@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Btw, guys, one of my 3440's, the older one judging from the serial #,
>has audible "tape gravel" and not just constant hiss when you turn the
>volume up high. I can actually hear the tape travelling on the heads,
>kinda like a "gurgling" sound, getting slower when the tape slows and
>faster when the tape goes faster, on playback. It's barely audible when
>normal operations are perfomed but I can really hear it when I get to a
>part on the tape when it's blank and then I turn up the volume to hear
>the hiss and then I hear that "tape gravel" sound. Anyone have an idea
>what it could be ? Outside of this, the machine records and reproduces
>very well.

And let me guess, the problem is only on tapes recorded on that machine?
Tapes taken from another machine play back without the problem, right?
Sounds like bias rocks. Next time you do the alignment, bias for lowest
noise on a 50 Hz tone rather than with the modern overbias method.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
July 28, 2005 4:43:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Daniel <sivlee@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > 1/2" 4-track 440B or something.
> >
> >Yeah, that'd be cool to have! The only thing which kinda makes me
> >hesitant is getting a machine that I'd have to "bring to life". The
> >only thing that I know how to do well is clean the heads, pinch roller
> >(with the right chemicals of course) and change belts. Other than that
> >I don't know ....
>
> So call up Funky Junk and have them send a refurbished machine over.
> You'll pay for their cleaning it up, but that might be worth it to you.
>
> For the most part, the machines are available for a song, but the
> maintenance, unless you do it yourself, is a lot of money. And most
> of the studio machines _have_ had a hard life, so there is usually some
> maintenance to be done. It's well worth it, though. The difference
> between standard 1/2" 4-track and the narrowtrack consumer formats is amazing.
> --scott

I checked out Funky Junk and found yet another gold mine of a resource!
Thanks so much Scott! Considering the cost of tape I'd like to get into
1/2" 4 track at least for now ... So yeah I'd like to experience a
wider track format with a more high end up machine. Which of the 4
track, 1/2" tape and 8 track, 1" tape machines are fairly easily
obtained and are of quality ? Which ones should I be looking at ? Also,
the mixer section for the 388 is pretty nice and I also have a TASCAM
M30 .... would I be able to use these with the pro open reel recorder
you recommend ? Would my mixers be compatible ?

Thanks again!

Daniel

>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
July 28, 2005 4:47:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Daniel <sivlee@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Btw, guys, one of my 3440's, the older one judging from the serial #,
> >has audible "tape gravel" and not just constant hiss when you turn the
> >volume up high. I can actually hear the tape travelling on the heads,
> >kinda like a "gurgling" sound, getting slower when the tape slows and
> >faster when the tape goes faster, on playback. It's barely audible when
> >normal operations are perfomed but I can really hear it when I get to a
> >part on the tape when it's blank and then I turn up the volume to hear
> >the hiss and then I hear that "tape gravel" sound. Anyone have an idea
> >what it could be ? Outside of this, the machine records and reproduces
> >very well.
>
> And let me guess, the problem is only on tapes recorded on that machine?
> Tapes taken from another machine play back without the problem, right?
> Sounds like bias rocks. Next time you do the alignment, bias for lowest
> noise on a 50 Hz tone rather than with the modern overbias method.
> --scott

I'm gonna have to check but from what I remember, I took a tape
recorded with another machine and also a blank tape, popped it onto
the "problematic" 3440, increased the volume until I heard tape hiss
easily and could also hear the dreaded "tape gravel".

~Daniel

>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
July 28, 2005 7:46:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The Funky Junk site is selling a Scully 4 track 1 inch in "mint" cond
for 1000 British Pounds. Wow! Can you believe 4 tracks on 1 inch of
tape!! Amazing!! Tell you the truth, that would be a cool machine to
get and if I were there now I'd certainly look into it! Btw, didn't
know that 1" 4 track existed!

My needs are really not more than 8 tracks and so far I haven't needed
more than 4. Tape as well ..... I pretty much re-use it so I may even
opt for up to a 1 inch tape. I wonder how often these types of decks
come up, on the used market .... you know, like the Scully and the like
with the WIDE tracks etc ....
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 1:00:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Daniel <sivlee@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The Funky Junk site is selling a Scully 4 track 1 inch in "mint" cond
>for 1000 British Pounds. Wow! Can you believe 4 tracks on 1 inch of
>tape!! Amazing!! Tell you the truth, that would be a cool machine to
>get and if I were there now I'd certainly look into it! Btw, didn't
>know that 1" 4 track existed!

It was a standard British format and used on a lot of Beatles recordings.
For the most part it didn't get used too much in the US although there
was a little market for the things. Azimuth setting is really touchy
with the wide track, though.

If the Scully machine is one of the Model 100 units with the fixed head
block, stay away.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
July 29, 2005 3:53:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Daniel <sivlee@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >The Funky Junk site is selling a Scully 4 track 1 inch in "mint" cond
> >for 1000 British Pounds. Wow! Can you believe 4 tracks on 1 inch of
> >tape!! Amazing!! Tell you the truth, that would be a cool machine to
> >get and if I were there now I'd certainly look into it! Btw, didn't
> >know that 1" 4 track existed!
>
> It was a standard British format and used on a lot of Beatles recordings.
> For the most part it didn't get used too much in the US although there
> was a little market for the things. Azimuth setting is really touchy
> with the wide track, though.
>
> If the Scully machine is one of the Model 100 units with the fixed head
> block, stay away.
> --scott

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my posts Scott. That's very
much appreciated!

~Daniel


>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
!