Lowest Notes A Pro Would Use in Pop Music??

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Arthur wrote:

> The lowest note on your standard bass is E. I use synthesizers for my
> bass, and as you know they go far below the low "E" on a standard bass.
> For pop/contemporary music that you would hear on the radio, what note
> is the lowest that a professional studio would consider mixing into a
> song? Do popular songs have notes that go "below" the low E of a
> standard bass? Is D too low?
>
> if anyone has an opinion on this I would love to hear

The low E on a bass is about 41cps.
Since many 'tune down' a half step or even a
whole step the low note is getting down to about
36-37 cps. Below this point you are really running
out of response on most systems.
At these low frequencies you are actually hearing
the harmonics of the low notes and the psycho-acoustic
power of the brain fills in the information to allow
the listener to appreciate the notes being played.

Low B on a 5 string bass and the low D tuning
used in some modern music are examples of low notes
that are most likely actually heard as overtones.
(Linkin Park, Evanesence -
sorry I don't know the names of the songs)

I've used a synth for bass lines at times but
I approach it by trying to make the synth sound
as much like a bass guitar as possible and keeping
the notes above the 40 cps range.

What size woofers do you have in your system ?

rd

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Arthur wrote:

> i have mackie HR824's, they are very nice and have excellent bass
> response.

Yes, the 824's have great low end extension.
Just be aware that you're going to be hearing things
that will be somewhat lost on most other systems.
SOP:
Check your mixes on some smaller speakers.

> your information is very helpful. I will keep my music at the standard
> bass range. This really helps, thanks a bunch.

There's nothing wrong with including killer low end
in your music. I love great bass response.
The key here is to include enough overtones
in the bass lines to cue the listener in to
the intent of that part of the music.
The kick drum sound that you can feel is in
the lowest octave, (below the bass guitar)
but on smaller speakers all you hear is the
slap.

good luck
rd

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Arthur wrote:
> The lowest note on your standard bass is E. I use synthesizers for my
> bass, and as you know they go far below the low "E" on a standard bass.
> For pop/contemporary music that you would hear on the radio, what note
> is the lowest that a professional studio would consider mixing into a
> song? Do popular songs have notes that go "below" the low E of a
> standard bass? Is D too low?
>
> if anyone has an opinion on this I would love to hear

As a 5-string bassist, i deal with this a lot. It has to do with the
bassist and how tight and controlled a player they are. I play a heavy
genre of rock/funk/hip hop. The amp is an Ampeg SVT (all tube bass amp)
and i have it set to give me that most excellent tube overdrive sound if
i accent notes and want it to do so. The harmonic information is so rich
(as someone else mentioned) that i never have a problem reproducing it.
The quality of the bass, the amp and the cabinet are so high that there
is never a problem, even down to a low b.

Like in all recording situations, a skilled and trained musician will
make many problems disappear.

My test for bass response is grabbing my middle of the line Sony
MDR-V500 headphones, and listening to my mixes on the bus. If everything
in the mix, especially the bass, is properly distinguishable, you've
done a good job.

Roach

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"Arthur" <arthurh88@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121906033.607305.279130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The lowest note on your standard bass is E. I use synthesizers for my
> bass, and as you know they go far below the low "E" on a standard bass.
> For pop/contemporary music that you would hear on the radio, what note
> is the lowest that a professional studio would consider mixing into a
> song? Do popular songs have notes that go "below" the low E of a
> standard bass? Is D too low?
>
> if anyone has an opinion on this I would love to hear
>

One thing to add to all of the other points made... you need to be a little
careful when mixing bass-heavy material. I've found myself mixing on rather
small monitors and can hear plenty of B and E-string harmonics. Once
everything sounds great, I print the mix to a CD and then listen on my main
hifi system, which has a dual woofer configuration and extension to about 23
Hz. On this system, some of those mixes can sound a bit boomy. I usually
have to compensate. Also, I'll listen to the mix on headphones, and a little
portable CD boom-box to get a variety of reference points. So, the best bet
is to do your best on your studio monitors, but audition on a variety of
playback systems to get the best compromise.

Craig

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"Arthur" <arthurh88@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121906033.607305.279130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

> The lowest note on your standard bass is E. I use
> synthesizers for my bass, and as you know they go far
below
> the low "E" on a standard bass. For pop/contemporary
music
> that you would hear on the radio, what note is the lowest
that
> a professional studio would consider mixing into a song?
Do
> popular songs have notes that go "below" the low E of a
> standard bass? Is D too low?
>
> if anyone has an opinion on this I would love to hear

It's possible to make recordings that are hard to play at
goodly levels on better audio gear because there is too much
energy at low frequencies. The you have to figure out who
your market is, because there are people who prize
recordings that demolish lesser audio systems, either
figuratively or actually.

I've found that with the kind of music I record and the
listeners I serve, they could care less about demoing their
stereos to visiting firemen, they just want to enjoy the
music. A number of experiments later and I found that a
sharp cutoff below 40 Hz was an acceptible compromise.

In the contexts I work it is pretty easy to stumble into
circumstances where there is quite a bit of energy below 40
Hz. If the music I recorded were being contrived to record
and play well with my market, it would therefore be free of
substantial content below 40 Hz.

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Arthur <arthurh88@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The lowest note on your standard bass is E. I use synthesizers for my
>bass, and as you know they go far below the low "E" on a standard bass.
> For pop/contemporary music that you would hear on the radio, what note
>is the lowest that a professional studio would consider mixing into a
>song? Do popular songs have notes that go "below" the low E of a
>standard bass? Is D too low?
>
>if anyone has an opinion on this I would love to hear

You can play as low as you want. The fundamental won't be audible
anyway.

Remember a bass note isn't a pure tone, especially after it has been
through an amp.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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Arthur,

> if anyone has an opinion on this I would love to hear <

Scott nailed it. Most of what you hear from bass instruments is not
fundamental anyway. When plucked at the usual position over the pickup, the
fundamental on my Fender bass (for example) is 10 to 12 dB softer than the
2nd harmonic. I've used synth bass parts that have notes much lower than the
low E on a bass, but with little or no fundamental content. So you can
definitely have very low notes that sound low, but that don't contain much
energy below 50 Hz or whatever.

--Ethan

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Bob Cain wrote:

> Good 'phones have no problem with low bass. It's pretty easy with
> transducer surfaces that close to the ear and most yield to the
> temptation to hype it some.

Good phones or any phones have a huge problem with low bass. You can
record bass that you will barely notice on the phones, yet will rumble
some large speakers to the point of absurdity.

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Joe Sensor wrote:
> Bob Cain wrote:
>
>> Good 'phones have no problem with low bass. It's pretty easy with
>> transducer surfaces that close to the ear and most yield to the
>> temptation to hype it some.
>
>
> Good phones or any phones have a huge problem with low bass.

What is the technical nature of that problem?

> You can
> record bass that you will barely notice on the phones, yet will rumble
> some large speakers to the point of absurdity.

That's absurdity. Depends on the 'phones and on the
speakers. There is nothing at all intrinsic to 'phones that
prevents them from delivering to the ear drum as much bass
as any speaker can. It's easier, in fact, because the close
coupling, essentially a plane wave, much reduces the
excursion relative to that of the higher frequencies that it
must be able to provide.

OTOH, if you are asking for objects rattling in the room and
a feeling in the belly, then you are right.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

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On 20 Jul 2005 17:33:53 -0700, "Arthur" <arthurh88@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The lowest note on your standard bass is E. I use synthesizers for my
>bass, and as you know they go far below the low "E" on a standard bass.
> For pop/contemporary music that you would hear on the radio, what note
>is the lowest that a professional studio would consider mixing into a
>song? Do popular songs have notes that go "below" the low E of a
>standard bass? Is D too low?
>
>if anyone has an opinion on this I would love to hear


There are subsonics created in the attack of many sources, notably
"Chunk" guitar chords (which interfere with bass guitar sounds). You
may not want them there later, but you may want to catch them as they
are thrown.

I don't ever roll the lows completely off. I like to give some of it
into the mix, because, well, it was there at the source and it sounds
really cool when you turn the volume all the way up later.




Kurt Riemann

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"Arthur" <arthurh88@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121906033.607305.279130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The lowest note on your standard bass is E. I use synthesizers for my
> bass, and as you know they go far below the low "E" on a standard bass.
> For pop/contemporary music that you would hear on the radio, what note
> is the lowest that a professional studio would consider mixing into a
> song? Do popular songs have notes that go "below" the low E of a
> standard bass? Is D too low?
>
> if anyone has an opinion on this I would love to hear
>

I think it really depends on the style of music, this is more of an
arrangement question. For 'regular' fairly conservative pop music, like
what is on the airwaves now, I'd probably try to use the notes and riffs one
normally gets from an actual bass, be it 4 or 5 strings. I think the more
'electronic' or 'rap' pop music gets the stranger the bass lines can be, but
the more 'rockish' it becomes and the more standard the song structure, the
more you want to use notes that a 4-string bass can make. Ballads on the
radio almost without exception use 'normal' basslines.

jb