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Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

so I thought I'd build some gobos so I can track acoustic instruments
in the same room together and still achieve some sort of isolation. My
main problem is drum sound getting into my acoustic guitar mics.
Here's my thought:

build a 2x4 stud wall and put it on a movable base or casters or
something of the sort. Make the wall 4-5 feet wide by some height. I
am wondering what height is going to be the most effective- of course I
don't want to go up 8 feet unless I aboslutely have to. I'm thinking
maybe 4-5 feet tall as well. anyway, pack the wall with some high stc
insulation and face it with either clear 1/4" veneer plywood or
masonite or something durable of the sort. then i could cover the face
with acoustic foam for high frequencies. How effective do you think
this would be? what should i maybe do differently to be more
effective? Any other ideas? thanks,

Nate

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I can't think of any studio I've ever scene that would mic an acoustic gtr
in the same room as a full kit drummer if there is another option. I suggest
plugging the acoustic in and overdubbing a mic'd track later and blending
them together. Your gobo sounds like your building another room, without the
advantages of another room and probably wouldn't help you retain the
original room acoustics which I assume is would be important to you.

Neil R

"Nate Najar" <nate@natenajar.com> wrote in message
news:1122650966.317694.243310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> so I thought I'd build some gobos so I can track acoustic instruments
> in the same room together and still achieve some sort of isolation. My
> main problem is drum sound getting into my acoustic guitar mics.
> Here's my thought:
>
> build a 2x4 stud wall and put it on a movable base or casters or
> something of the sort. Make the wall 4-5 feet wide by some height. I
> am wondering what height is going to be the most effective- of course I
> don't want to go up 8 feet unless I aboslutely have to. I'm thinking
> maybe 4-5 feet tall as well. anyway, pack the wall with some high stc
> insulation and face it with either clear 1/4" veneer plywood or
> masonite or something durable of the sort. then i could cover the face
> with acoustic foam for high frequencies. How effective do you think
> this would be? what should i maybe do differently to be more
> effective? Any other ideas? thanks,
>
> Nate
>

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

yeah it poses some problems. It's a jazz sound, not unlike the charlie
byrd trio, and i really can't overdub and be even minimally happy. I
don't mind a dead sound on the acoustic guitar, i.e. no room, as long
as I can get enough of the guitar signal. I don't even mind a little
bleed from the drums, but too much becomes uncontrollable. I also
track the pickup but they're useless except for maybe some slight
definition at a low level. I've tried putting the guitar in a separate
room, but i need to direct the band so I kind of need to be in the
thick of things. THe main problem is that the classical guitar doens't
put out enough output to mask the drums. I have no problem close
miking an upright bass in the same room as the drums and as long as I
have placed the instruments in appropriate places I can get an
excellent sound from both with minimal, controllable bleed. I'm hoping
some sort of gobo will help alleviate the guitar problem.

Nate

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

if i remember, the F. Alton Everest Book "Sound Studio Construction on
a Budget" has a build plan for gobos. It's a great book to get anyway.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:23:51 -0700, Nate Najar wrote:

> yeah it poses some problems. It's a jazz sound, not unlike the charlie
> byrd trio, and i really can't overdub and be even minimally happy. I
> don't mind a dead sound on the acoustic guitar, i.e. no room, as long as I
> can get enough of the guitar signal. I don't even mind a little bleed
> from the drums, but too much becomes uncontrollable. I also track the
> pickup but they're useless except for maybe some slight definition at a
> low level. I've tried putting the guitar in a separate room, but i need
> to direct the band so I kind of need to be in the thick of things. THe
> main problem is that the classical guitar doens't put out enough output to
> mask the drums. I have no problem close miking an upright bass in the
> same room as the drums and as long as I have placed the instruments in
> appropriate places I can get an excellent sound from both with minimal,
> controllable bleed. I'm hoping some sort of gobo will help alleviate the
> guitar problem.

Then try it & see. It shouldn't cost too much in terms of money or time.
Make one as tall as you can see over, & make the rest as tall as you can
fit under the ceiling. Better yet, build them all as tall as the ceiling
will allow & put a 2 or 3 pane plexiglass window in one.

The trouble is drums are just too damn loud & acoustic guitars (classical
or steel string) are just too damn quiet. Drums will tend to go over,
around, & through most anything that's not specifically engineered (and
well engineered, at that) to contain them. You might try putting some of
Ethan's bass traps on the drum side. Might help, might not. Will
definitely increase the cost, but you'll probably use them somewhere
else eventually.

But I'll agree with Neil that a separate room is ideal, if your
architectural & budgetary situation allow it. Rooms with windows are not
uncommon in the recording world <g>. But building a room with a window
AND reasonable isolation is not a trivial matter.

Good luck.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1122650966.317694.243310@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> nate@natenajar.com writes:

> build a 2x4 stud wall and put it on a movable base or casters or
> something of the sort. Make the wall 4-5 feet wide by some height.

> anyway, pack the wall with some high stc
> insulation and face it with either clear 1/4" veneer plywood or
> masonite or something durable of the sort. then i could cover the face
> with acoustic foam for high frequencies.

That isn't going to be dense enough to stop anything. I build some
gobos several years ago that are pretty effective except for stuff
coming in from above, which you're likely to have unless you have a
pretty dead ceiling. They're a 4 foot square frame made of 1x10
lumber. There's another frame inside made of 2x4s, centered on the
10" boards. I put a 4' square (minus the thickness of the frame) of
5/8" particle board underlayment on either side of the 2x4 frame.
Everything is put together with screws and glue.

Stuffed it with Fiberglas just for good measure and "finished" one
side with burlap so I'd have a dead surface, and finished the other
side with a sheet of 1/4" plywood for a live surface. They're
gawdawful heavy, but that's what makes them work good.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Rock-wool (loft insulation), with chicken-wire (wire screen with a mesh
about 1/2 inch) covered with muslin (loose-weave fabric) is a good
sound-insulator, and light. Obviously, you can put it in a wood frame
that you can move around.

Chris

Reply to Chris

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I heard the Charlie Byrd Trio years ago and was amazed at the live balance
they acheived, more impressive was the volume the drummer was able to play
at. If I recall, the guitar was mic'ed through a PA. Clear as a bell. Maybe
you could lose the headphones, your drummer could learn to play at half
volume(brushes, I assume?), and get a decent PA or keyboard amp for the
room. You may get the feel you want, and, hopefully, the sound as well.
Those D'Addario pickups work extremely well in these situations. They sound
more like a mic than a quacky pickup.Keep us posted.

Rick Hollett
"Nate Najar" <nate@natenajar.com> wrote in message
news:1122657831.607656.21940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> yeah it poses some problems. It's a jazz sound, not unlike the charlie
> byrd trio, and i really can't overdub and be even minimally happy. I
> don't mind a dead sound on the acoustic guitar, i.e. no room, as long
> as I can get enough of the guitar signal. I don't even mind a little
> bleed from the drums, but too much becomes uncontrollable. I also
> track the pickup but they're useless except for maybe some slight
> definition at a low level. I've tried putting the guitar in a separate
> room, but i need to direct the band so I kind of need to be in the
> thick of things. THe main problem is that the classical guitar doens't
> put out enough output to mask the drums. I have no problem close
> miking an upright bass in the same room as the drums and as long as I
> have placed the instruments in appropriate places I can get an
> excellent sound from both with minimal, controllable bleed. I'm hoping
> some sort of gobo will help alleviate the guitar problem.
>
> Nate
>

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-07-29 mrivers@d-and-d.com said:
>That isn't going to be dense enough to stop anything. I build some
>gobos several years ago that are pretty effective except for stuff
>coming in from above, which you're likely to have unless you have a
>pretty dead ceiling. They're a 4 foot square frame made of 1x10
>lumber. There's another frame inside made of 2x4s, centered on the
>10" boards. I put a 4' square (minus the thickness of the frame) of
>5/8" particle board underlayment on either side of the 2x4 frame.
>Everything is put together with screws and glue.
SOunds similar to some I built years ago.
Malcolm Chisholm had some plans for all sorts of gobos on his site. I
don't know where it is, it used to be at mcs.net/~malcolm/ but don't
know anymore.
tHe original poster might be helped a great deal in all sorts of
things gobo construction if somebody had those articles. I just had a
look and can't find them on this hard drive anymore. WHen I had them
was two computers ago and they didn't make the switch.

Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <MAzHe.2984$pp.1874@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
0junk4me@bellsouth.net says...

> SOunds similar to some I built years ago.
> Malcolm Chisholm had some plans for all sorts of gobos on his site. I
> don't know where it is, it used to be at mcs.net/~malcolm/ but don't
> know anymore.
> tHe original poster might be helped a great deal in all sorts of
> things gobo construction if somebody had those articles. I just had a
> look and can't find them on this hard drive anymore. WHen I had them
> was two computers ago and they didn't make the switch.

I've been trying to track down Malcolm's son, who had reposted Malcolm's
old site on a new server. That server is down, now. If I can find the
younger Mr. Chisholm, I plan to offer to put Malcolm's site back up on
my server, and if that happens, I'll post it here.

-Pete Pollack
me@bignoisybug.com

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <MPG.1d58adbf31ec34e9896b4@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
Peter L. Pollack <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>In article <MAzHe.2984$pp.1874@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
>0junk4me@bellsouth.net says...
>
>> SOunds similar to some I built years ago.
>> Malcolm Chisholm had some plans for all sorts of gobos on his site. I
>> don't know where it is, it used to be at mcs.net/~malcolm/ but don't
>> know anymore.
>> tHe original poster might be helped a great deal in all sorts of
>> things gobo construction if somebody had those articles. I just had a
>> look and can't find them on this hard drive anymore. WHen I had them
>> was two computers ago and they didn't make the switch.
>
>I've been trying to track down Malcolm's son, who had reposted Malcolm's
>old site on a new server. That server is down, now. If I can find the
>younger Mr. Chisholm, I plan to offer to put Malcolm's site back up on
>my server, and if that happens, I'll post it here.

You might try web.archive.org.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <dcnuf5$8t1$1@panix2.panix.com>, kludge@panix.com says...
> In article <MPG.1d58adbf31ec34e9896b4@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> Peter L. Pollack <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >In article <MAzHe.2984$pp.1874@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
> >0junk4me@bellsouth.net says...

> >I've been trying to track down Malcolm's son, who had reposted Malcolm's
> >old site on a new server. That server is down, now. If I can find the
> >younger Mr. Chisholm, I plan to offer to put Malcolm's site back up on
> >my server, and if that happens, I'll post it here.
>
> You might try web.archive.org.
> --scott

You are the man, Scott. Nice reference site. It appears I now can get
Malcolm's stuff, but I'd still like to get a family member's permission
to post it, if possible.

-Pete Pollack
me@bignoisybug.com

Reply to Anonymous

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