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xp shutdown hangs, resource conflict??

Last response: in Windows XP
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May 23, 2002 10:30:04 AM

Hi all.

My configuration

asus A7V133A (bios 1.006)
T-bird 1.4mhz (133hz)
visiontek g4 4600ti
imation cdw/rw 12x8x32
toshiba dvd sd m1212
audigy gamer
kingstion EtheRx vp 10/100
wintv
dvd decoder card (hollywood plus)
all updated drivers and xp critical fixes and xp driver updates.
peripherals (N/A, problem is independent of different peripherals)

The problem is that xp, more often than not, will hang on shutdown or restart. I've done a few reinstalls and have deduced the problem to either my wintv card and/or dvd card (they worked fine). I now run with these disabled (for a few months) to prevent the shutdown hanging. I also notice that win xp assigns the same IRQ to all devices and suspect resource sharing is causing the shutdown problem (strange considering they all work fine). Another possibility is the power supply can't handle the load; however in windows 98 (i have a dual boot) everything everything is fine with the exact configuration. An XP or device driver issue seems likely.

My questions are: Is it possible to bypass xp auto configuration and change resource settings per device? Is the power supply (300watts) at fault (note both my 250watt and 300watt show the problem)? Is it an xp/device driver issue?

Any info on this issue is appreciated.


Quality is better than name brand, even regarding beloved AMD.
May 23, 2002 11:37:34 AM

Quote:
Is it possible to bypass xp auto configuration and change resource settings per device?

disable ACPI in the BIOS

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 23, 2002 5:39:30 PM

If all the devices are running correctly once in Windows, and no resource problems show up in the Device Manager, then the shutdown issue is unlikely to be related to an IRQ conflict. IRQ sharing in Win2K and WinXP is completely normal, and very rarely does it need to be altered, and that would only be with hardware that is not ACPI-compliant.

If you had an IRQ conflict, it is very likely that the problem would be more than a shutdown or restart issue ... you'd get BSOD's, and they would happen both when booting the computer, as well as when shutting down.

Disabling ACPI in WinXP is <i>not</i> a good idea. Doing this also requires reinstalling the operating system, or it will not be stable. Simply changing the setting in the BIOS, or changing the driver to Standard PC in the Device Manager won't correct the problem. And if this happens to be a version of XP Home Edition, you should be aware that it does not support APM ... only ACPI. WinXP Pro supports both power management standards.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/guides/viewfaq.html?i=116" target="_new">ACPI vs APM</A>

<A HREF="http://www.aumha.org/a/shtdwnxpz.htm" target="_new">Windows XP Shutdown and Restart Troubleshooting</A>

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q307274" target="_new">Windows XP Stops Responding (Hangs) During Windows Shutdown (Q307274)</A>

<A HREF="http://www.duxcw.com/faq/win/xp/shutdwn.htm" target="_new">Windows XP Shutdown Problems</A>

<A HREF="http://www.windows-help.net/WindowsXP/troub-05.html" target="_new">Windows XP Stops Responding During Windows Shutdown</A>


My guess is that the problem is driver-related. It's probably not because of the Hollywood card, because I've installed several of these in different WinXP systems without any difficulty. But I'm assuming that you've installed the latest drivers for both the WinTV and Hollywood card, (including for your other components, such as the video card and chipset drivers, right?)

I'd remove the WinTV card, and see if the problem goes away. If so, try reinstalling it in a different PCI slot, with the latest driver set.

I'd also rule out the PSU as being the problem. Power issues like this normally show up during the boot (when the power draw on the PSU is the highest) ... not during a shutdown. You'd also see things like games locking up or dropping back to the desktop, due to the increased power demand on the video card. If that's not happening, the PSU is probably not at fault.

Did you flash your BIOS before installing WinXP? If there <i>is</i> anything happening that might be IRQ-related, then the possibility that the BIOS is at fault is higher than anything to do with Windows Power Management. All that may be necessary is to flash the BIOS, and then to choose another slot for the WinTV card.

Generally, PCI Slot 3 is the best for a contrary device that seems to "dislike" sharing an IRQ with another device.

With the GeForce4 card installed, be sure that the nVidia Driver Helper Service is disabled in Control Panel\Administrative Tools\Services, as this can cause problems with shutting down or restarting.

Have you found anything pertaining to the error in the Event Viewer logs? (Also located under Administrative Tools.)

Toejam31

<font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
__________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Some push the envelope. Some just lick it. And some can't find the flap."</font color=purple>
Related resources
May 23, 2002 6:21:27 PM

already done, still the resource settings are greyed out.

Quality is better than name brand, even regarding beloved AMD.
May 23, 2002 7:30:35 PM

you have to also change to standard PC - but read Toejams post above - lots of useful info.

<i>It's always the one thing you never suspected.</i>
May 24, 2002 5:33:39 AM

What does "change to standard PC" mean? I've never encountered that term before.

Quality is better than name brand, even regarding beloved AMD.
May 24, 2002 6:11:05 AM

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q216251" target="_new">HOW TO: Specify a Specific or Third-Party HAL During Windows Setup (Q216251)</A>

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/guides/viewfaq.html?i=47" target="_new">Why are all my devices using one IRQ in Win2K or WinXP?</A>

However, I must emphasize, switching the HAL to Standard PC with Advanced Power Management enabled in the BIOS should be considered a last ditch effort when attempting to solve this kind of problem, and is probably <i>not</i> the correct solution. If you had an actual device conflict, one or both of the devices would refuse to function. It wouldn't be a situation where nothing but the restart or shutdown of the system was affected.

Toejam31

<font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
__________________________________________________________

<font color=purple>"Some push the envelope. Some just lick it. And some can't find the flap."</font color=purple>
May 28, 2002 8:34:05 PM

I had this problem constantly and then narrowed it down to running a progarm called TurboConnect.

If I ended this program manually, then the shutdown proceeded as normal.

Why not try to close your programs one by one, and then do a shutdown?

Not entirely pleased with Windows XP.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by iralaser on 05/28/02 04:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 29, 2002 2:05:45 AM

I had the same problem. I gave my son my ATI TV Wonder and the problem went away.

-N-

<b><font color=blue>Paramedics - Does this mean there is always two of them ?</font color=blue></b>
September 27, 2002 4:54:11 AM

Thanks for all the excellent input. I have updated to xp to sp1 and still the problem persists. However, through tedious logic (different pci slots, installation order, etc.) I have discovered the shutdown issues are correlated to the installation of the wintv card (even with the latest drivers for everything). Also, I recently installed the sandra benchmarking utility which claimed that the wintv card does not support bus mastering. I'm not sure if this is the problem as the same config in 98 works fine and I think (?) win98 also works with pci busmastering.

What do think about pci busmastering as a culprit, and if it is, then what can be done about it?

Please note I have all the latest drivers.

Also, no errors were recorded in event log about hangups. When it hangs, I just hear a slight click (hardisk??cdrom??) which I also hear during normal shutdowns. Booting never shows any disk error check which leads me to conjecture that the hang occurs after all disk activities have been completed.

What are the downfalls of Hal besides having to manually configure IRQs? Performance hits? I'm not concerned about future card addition woes, since I've maxed out my slots. I'm still used to the good old days when one had to manually configure IRQ's. If bus mastering is the problem, will HAL address it?

Thanks again.

Quality is better than name brand, even regarding beloved AMD.
September 27, 2002 3:32:55 PM

The first thing I'd like to say is that I am distressed to learn that you are still having the same problem with your system. You have my sympathies.

The second, is that I do not believe that the power management type (ACPI or APM), the HAL, PCI busmastering, or an IRQ conflict are causing your system to hang during the shutdown process. My reasoning?

The fact that your devices are operational within Windows, <i>with no errors noted of any kind</i>, is a sign that resource sharing is working correctly, and that no devices are in conflict. Nothing you have mentioned in your posts indicates an issue with an IRQ conflict within Windows; there are no problems loading the devices during Startup, no BSOD's, no error messages, no difficulties with accessing or using any of the devices once within the GUI ... all of which <i>should</i> occur if this was the case.

PCI busmastering:

PCI busmastering is the ability to take control of the PCI bus and execute a transfer independent of the host CPU. This capability boosts performance by improving data transfer rate through the use of long burst transfers. Busmastering also offloads the host CPU, further improving system performance.

Chipsets supporting busmastering have been regularly installed on mainboards since 1995.

PCI busmastering cards may cause higher latency issues on the PCI bus, and often do not support IRQ sharing. The installation of this type of card could easily result in conflicts. The fact that the WinTV card does <i>not</i> support busmastering would be an indication, IMHO, that this is not a pertinent issue.

I believe that continuing in this vein while casting about for the reason that the computer is hanging up during the shutdown process is closer to moving off at a tangent, than nearing the real source of the problem. I do not think that an IRQ conflict, or the choice of power management/HAL was <i>ever</i> at fault.

The fact that the same system configuration works correctly with Windows 98 installed is a further indication that IRQ sharing is not at fault, as Win9x is <i>less</i> fault-tolerant than WinXP ... not more.

What you might do instead, is directly address the problem. What I mean by that is ... what are some common reasons that WinXP hangs during shutdown?

1.) Unsigned drivers, or drivers causing illegal function calls.
2.) An inability to shut down a service.
3.) Software incompatibility
4.) Inadequate power

These links might help you move in the right direction:

<A HREF="http://www.dave-partridge.com/shutdown.shtml" target="_new">Windows XP Shutdown and Restart Troubleshooting</A>

<A HREF="http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/libr..." target="_new">Driver Verifier</A>

You might also wish to inspect your Administrative Services list, and change the "Startup Type" for anything that is related to the WinTV card.

<A HREF="http://www.dave-partridge.com/services.shtml" target="_new">Windows XP Services</A>

If the hangup is happening because Windows XP is having difficulty shutting down an application or driver for the WinTV card, doing some Registry editing might help:

<A HREF="http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_reg_edits.htm" target="_new">System and Performance Edits for Windows XP</A>

Pay particular attention to the edits for ...

Unload DLL's
End Task Time Out
Automatically Close Non-Responding Applications on Shutdown
Force Exit
How to Increase Shutdown Time For Services To Close Properly

A final comment:

If this was my system, and I was experiencing the same sort of problems, my response would be more drastic than just trying to edit the Registry, installing a new driver, or trying to find some kind of "fix".

KT133 mainboards were known for having power issues, and they were the most unstable mainboards I have ever installed in any system.

My personal response to the problem, especially after this many months, would have been to upgrade. I would have replaced the mainboard, processor, and memory ... sold the older components, and bought a stable KT266A board, DDR RAM, and an Athlon XP processor.

Considering the price of these components, for most people, an upgrade of this type would not be entirely out of the question. And the probability of the error occurring with the remaining components is low.

In the end, I think this is the best overall advice. Otherwise, if no steps that you take within WinXP can solve the problem, format the hard drive, install Win98SE, and save your money until you can feasibly afford an upgrade to a higher-performance system.

Toejam31

<font color=red>First Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=17935" target="_new"><font color=green>Toejam31's Devastating Dalek Destroyer</font color=green></A>
<font color=red>Second Rig:</font color=red> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=15942" target="_new"><font color=green>Toey's Dynamite DDR Duron</font color=green></A>
________________________________________

<A HREF="http://www.btvillarin.com/phpBB/index.php" target="_new"><b><font color=purple>BTVILLARIN.com</font color=purple></b></A> - <i><font color=orange>A better place to be</font color=orange></i>. :wink:
September 28, 2002 7:07:25 AM

I really appreciate your wealth of information, sympathy, and advice. You have helped me eliminate investigating (tedious trial and error testing for one without specific knowledge) with your insights. Still, the other options, I feel, as you have also pointed out, will definitely require more troubleshooting and may not be worth the trouble. I was hoping for a definite known issue. An answer, no matter how dismal, is better than uncertainty.

I'll have to live with my win98se/xp dual boot config though it would nice to have all my cards working on xp. It's funny, I don't even use the tv card anyways but just knowing it fails tickles my obsession bone.

You just gave me a plausible excuse to upgrade. I don't know whether to thank you or curse you.

I have to say that besides this intermittent (the worst kind) shutdown issue, kt133a has been good to me. KX133, is another story. Eventually I got the right memory for it, but its previous random crashes were infuriating to say the least. I noticed that the paging errors were excessively high (i used the windows performance thingamajig) on the kx133 motherboard compared to other platforms.

Quality is better than name brand, even regarding beloved AMD.
!