Best recharable AA batts

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ansmann makes some great rechargables - 2600 mah AA. You should try some of
their 250mah 9v's.

https://www.horizonbattery.com/item [...] u=,ANS2600

Max Arwood


<letty@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d608e5594a5de5d9897c4@news.west.earthlink.net...
> I just purchased a Sony d-33 discman and it has been quite sometime since
> I have looked into rechargable AA batteries. Any advice on which are the
> best.
>
> Thanks in advance

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <fLBJe.340$Ub1.163@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>,
"Max Arwood" <marwoodNOSPAM@hnb.com> wrote:

> Ansmann makes some great rechargables - 2600 mah AA. You should try some of
> their 250mah 9v's.
>
> https://www.horizonbattery.com/item [...] u=,ANS2600
>
> Max Arwood
>
>
> <letty@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d608e5594a5de5d9897c4@news.west.earthlink.net...
> > I just purchased a Sony d-33 discman and it has been quite sometime since
> > I have looked into rechargable AA batteries. Any advice on which are the
> > best.
> >
> > Thanks in advance

Contrary to the capacity indication, my Kodak NiMH batteries (2300 mAh)
(made in Japan) are outperforming Ansmanns (2400 mAh) in my MP3-recorder
every time - and I can get them cheaper over here in Switzerland (some
15 USD equivalent for 4 AA)

HTH

Marc

--
Switzerland/Europe
<http://www.heusser.com>
remove CHEERS and from MERCIAL to get valid e-mail

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letty@NOSPAM.com wrote:
> I just purchased a Sony d-33 discman and it has been quite sometime since
> I have looked into rechargable AA batteries. Any advice on which are the
> best.
>

I've been using the Energizer 2200 and 2500 mA/Hr NiMh AAs with good
results in my cameras and flash units. We also supply a set of four
Energizer 2200s and a charger with our new SM transmitter.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> 1)anyone using the 15 minute rechargeables? Is it really possible?

They get hot as hell, and I can't imagine they have a long life. Running a
battery immediately after a hard charge is never a good idea anyway.

>
> 2)Is there a useable 9v out yet? One that can run a guitar pedal?

Usable? <shrug> A quick google yields this:
http://www.thomas-distributing.com [...] teries.htm

-John O

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Joe Kesselman <keshlam-nospam@comcast.net> wrote in
news:W-SdndG7qpP8N2rfRVn-uA@comcast.com:

><snip>Also, like most rechargables,
> they're typically 1.2V per cell rather than 1.5; some devices won't
> like that lower voltage. (This is also why you don't see as many
> rechargable 9V's; their actual voltage for six cells cells would be
> 7.2V, and I'm not sure they can squeeze in a seventh cell to bring it
> up to 8.6.)
>

Whether NiMH (or even NiCd) voltage is higher or lower than Alkaline per
cell depends on both the state of charge and the discharge rate. As
NiMH have substantially lower internal impedance than alkaline (and NiCd
quite substantially lower than NiMH), they actually provide higher
voltage at very high discharge rates once even half the capacity is gone
(this is why the digital camera folks with high drain rate during
picture taking find even modest capacity NiMH to give them more pictures
than Alkaline--by huge margins at the highest drain rates).

People actually do sell 9V NiMH with differing cell count, though the
labelling can be pretty confusing (right now, the higher cell counts
ones seem usually to get described as "9.6V", while the ones with one
less cell describe themselves as 9 or 9.2--these are _not_ comparable
numbers. If your application has relatively low draw rate, and may need
nearly the full voltage of a half-discharged Alkaline 9v, then you want
the higher-voltage lower-capacity model (though your are still stuck
with self-discharge times likely to be in the couple of month range when
new, likely deteriorating a bit with use).

As to sources, lots of folks have been buying NiMH from Thomas
Distributing for years. Here is their 9v NiMH page:

http://thomas-distributing.com/9v_nimh_batteries.htm

For lower prices but a much less established reputation (and much
narrower selection), I've had good luck with Amondotech. As of today,
their 9V NiMH page is:

http://www.amondotech.com/index.as [...] tegory=266

I've recently bought their Titanium (brand) "9.6V" 180 maHr battery. I
charged it a week ago. Sitting unused since, it reads 10.3 V open
circuit today. For comparison, an unused (but several year old)
Duracell Alkaline 9V reads 9.3V open circuit on the same meter.

Amondotech offers quite good prices on AA NiMH. If you are a maximum
capacity freak, their 2400 mAHr "Titanium brand are currently $2.30.
But if you back off a bit in capacity to 1800 mAHr they are just $1.35,
with several other gradations.

For a non-mobile application charger, I've really like the Vanson
BC-1HU, sold by Amondotech for $24.95. It handles 4 batteries in any
mix of AAA, AA, C and D, and separates the batteries enough that the
AA's don't get nearly so hot as they do in comparable rate chargers in
the tinier form factors. Several hour charging times are prudent--I've
done visible damage to three brands of AA NiMH in a 1-hour Everready
charger, as the surface temperature at termination wrinkled, split, or
otherwise damage the surface coating.

One other thing to watch out for--fresh NiMH batteries brand new out of
the box may not give full capacity up to the first five cycles. They
also may behave oddly in a way which may fool "smart" termination
circuits of the sorts found in all fast chargers. So cycle them a few
times before using them, and watch them to assure your charger does not
cook them or quit after less than 10% of a full charge.

Good luck--I'm a commited heavy NiMH user for some years now.

Peter A. Stoll

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> One more question about 9v. Anyone used good 9v rechagealbes in guitar
> stomp boxes? Any sound coloration? (sp)

You shouldn't get "coloration". Either the voltage is enough to run the
box or it isn't, and either the discharge curve is enough to run the box
for an adequate length of time or it isn't...

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<letty@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>In article <dqednYj-meviS2rfRVn-oQ@comcast.com>, keshlam-
>nospam@comcast.net says...
>> > One more question about 9v. Anyone used good 9v rechagealbes in guitar
>> > stomp boxes? Any sound coloration? (sp)
>>
>> You shouldn't get "coloration". Either the voltage is enough to run the
>> box or it isn't, and either the discharge curve is enough to run the box
>> for an adequate length of time or it isn't...
>>
>With some of my boxes I think the signal runs through the batts and it
>seems as though I can tell a diff in sound. Could be my EJ syndrome.

This is basically because a lot of stomp boxes not only have no regulation,
but actually have no supply decoupling to speak of. So the series resistance
of the battery becomes a big deal.

In pretty much every case, a NiCd battery will have less voltage drop under
load than an alkaline, which will have less than a carbon battery.

But, there is actually a small underground market in old-style pre-heavy-duty
carbon-zinc batteries, because people like the voltage sag in their stomp
boxes.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <MPG.1d619b6b46ba8aeb9897c8@news.west.earthlink.net>,
<letty@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>>
>This may be why I seem to favor the sound of my boxes using old style
>carbon-zinc batts I can find in Italy for around a buck. I do like Kodak
>alkaline if they are the EU market ones. I guess I will start
>experimenting with some NiCd ones.

If you like that, try sticking a 1 ohm resistor in series with the battery
and see if that changes the sound of the alkaline more to your liking.
You could even get a 10-ohm wirewound pot and adjust it to the point where
it sounds best to you.

Don't rely on the lousiness of batteries to get the sound for you. Take
batteries off the shelf and make them lousy artificially, in a controlled
manner.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> But, there is actually a small underground market in old-style pre-heavy-duty
> carbon-zinc batteries, because people like the voltage sag in their stomp
> boxes.

Hm. Yeah, I can sorta see that.

I agree with you that the right answer is to figure out how to produce
the desired effect under better-controlled conditions.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <Xns96ACD06717745Haifa10Kulim07Michel@216.196.97.138>,
Lyn1Stoll_spamdel@comcast.net says...
> kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
> newsd8rlk$kbt$1@panix2.panix.com:
>
> > In article <MPG.1d619b6b46ba8aeb9897c8@news.west.earthlink.net>,
> > <letty@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>This may be why I seem to favor the sound of my boxes using old style
> >>carbon-zinc batts I can find in Italy for around a buck. I do like
> >>Kodak alkaline if they are the EU market ones. I guess I will start
> >>experimenting with some NiCd ones.
> >
> > If you like that, try sticking a 1 ohm resistor in series with the
> > battery and see if that changes the sound of the alkaline more to your
> > liking. You could even get a 10-ohm wirewound pot and adjust it to the
> > point where it sounds best to you.
> >
> > Don't rely on the lousiness of batteries to get the sound for you.
> > Take batteries off the shelf and make them lousy artificially, in a
> > controlled manner.
> > --scott
> >
>
> Putting most of the impedance in an intentional resistor should greatly
> stabilize the effect over the course of using up the charge in the battery.
> Not only are carbon-zinc and alkaline batteries high-impedance to start,
> but this increases greatly as you run down the state of charge.
>
> If you take care to recharge often enough, a NiMH battery plus a resistor
> should give you a much more consistent effect.
>
> I love Scott's final paragraph--technically accurate, evocative, and
> poetic, all in a few words.
>
> Peter A. Stoll
>

I can tell you all now that I most likely will try the tricks but will
also most likely end up using a battery I "think" sounds good. I do this
with cables, tubes, you name it. Even the weather makes a differance to
me. That said, having a controlled setup that I like will always be good
as a backup.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

William Sommerwerck wrote:

> > I've had good results with almost any brand of rechargeable AAs made for
> > digital cameras -- nickel-metal hydrides (NiMH). About $10 for 4 at
> WalMart
> > -- about $20 with charger. Use only NiMH charger.
>
> You can use a regular NiCad charger -- it just takes longer. I have 1800 mAh
> AA cells I got for 50 cents each (!!!) that I recharge on a 35-year-old GE
> Charge8 recharger. Works fine.

You can *damage* an NiMH cell with a Nicad charger. The preferred charging
profile(s) for NimH are different to NiCd.

Graham

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Joe Kesselman <keshlam-nospam@comcast.net> writes:
>> But, there is actually a small underground market in old-style pre-heavy-duty
>> carbon-zinc batteries, because people like the voltage sag in their stomp
>> boxes.

>Hm. Yeah, I can sorta see that.

>I agree with you that the right answer is to figure out how to produce
>the desired effect under better-controlled conditions.

The Voodoo Labs PedalPower II has an adjustment to simulate the
voltage sag. If you are running multiple pedals, you might want to
consider using a power-supply like the Voodoo Lab, or one of the
others on the market. For 1 or 2 pedals it may be overkill though.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ddab3s$rn7$1@news.msu.edu>, georgeh@gjhsun.cl.msu.edu says...
> Joe Kesselman <keshlam-nospam@comcast.net> writes:
> >> But, there is actually a small underground market in old-style pre-heavy-duty
> >> carbon-zinc batteries, because people like the voltage sag in their stomp
> >> boxes.
>
> >Hm. Yeah, I can sorta see that.
>
> >I agree with you that the right answer is to figure out how to produce
> >the desired effect under better-controlled conditions.
>
> The Voodoo Labs PedalPower II has an adjustment to simulate the
> voltage sag. If you are running multiple pedals, you might want to
> consider using a power-supply like the Voodoo Lab, or one of the
> others on the market. For 1 or 2 pedals it may be overkill though.
>
Ya, I mainly use two or 3 and carring this stuff around gets to be a pain
as well. Sounds good for studio work.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>> You can use a regular NiCad charger -- it just takes longer. I have 1800
mAh
>> AA cells I got for 50 cents each (!!!) that I recharge on a 35-year-old
GE
>> Charge8 recharger. Works fine.

> You can *damage* an NiMH cell with a nicad charger. The preferred charging
> profile(s) for NiMH are different to NiCd.

How? The GE charger is neither "fast" nor "automatic". The charging rate
(which I measured) is less than 5% of the cell's capacity. It's rather hard
to damage a cell that way.

I asked the "expert" at a battery retailer about this, and was told the only
significant difference between nicad and NiMH cells is that the rise in
voltage at the end of charge is different, both in magnitude and rate.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"William Sommerwerck" <gizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:LvOdnWUqMIqVrWTfRVn-sA@comcast.com:
>> You can *damage* an NiMH cell with a nicad charger. The preferred
>> charging profile(s) for NiMH are different to NiCd.
>
> How? The GE charger is neither "fast" nor "automatic". The charging
> rate (which I measured) is less than 5% of the cell's capacity. It's
> rather hard to damage a cell that way.
>
> I asked the "expert" at a battery retailer about this, and was told
> the only significant difference between nicad and NiMH cells is that
> the rise in voltage at the end of charge is different, both in
> magnitude and rate.
>
I suspect you are both right--your (slow, dumb) charger won't hurt NiMH,
but a (fast,smart) NiCd charger will get the termination condition wrong,
exactly because the behavior at end of charge is different, and either
overcharge/overheat, or undercharge.

I've cooked a few NiMH cells impressively using a 1-hour NiMH charger which
did not get the termination conditions right, possibly because the cells
were very new. 2 amps at 1.6V makes a AA battery darn hot pretty fast once
it is all getting thermally dissipated rather than doing electrochemistry.

Peter A. Stoll

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <MPG.1d62d6ef7650dbc99897cd@news.west.earthlink.net> letty@NOSPAM.com writes:

> Whatever it is I am not the only musician who can hear the difference. I
> have even heard of double blind studies done on such things.

Oh, there's no disputing the effect of a dynamic power supply voltage,
which is something you get with a battery with a fairly high internal
resistance like one made from zinc-carbon cells. I remember reading
that Eric Johnson wore his batteries down to a certain point and
that's where he liked them for playing. He probably lends them to
students or interns and takes them back when they're "ripe." <g>


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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Peter A. Stoll wrote:
>
> As to sources, lots of folks have been buying NiMH from Thomas
> Distributing for years.

Include me in that group--I've had great luck with them.




> For a non-mobile application charger, I've really like the Vanson
> BC-1HU, sold by Amondotech for $24.95. It handles 4 batteries in any
> mix of AAA, AA, C and D, and separates the batteries enough that the
> AA's don't get nearly so hot as they do in comparable rate chargers in
> the tinier form factors. Several hour charging times are prudent--I've
> done visible damage to three brands of AA NiMH in a 1-hour Everready
> charger, as the surface temperature at termination wrinkled, split, or
> otherwise damage the surface coating.

The Maha chargers are also excellent. I've been using their C-401FS for
a couple of years now, mostly in the 8-hour mode. The 100-minute mode
creates quite a bit of heat but sometimes you really need the fast
charge (like in the car en route to the next location.) This charger
has individual controls for each cell, while most others (including the
nice new C-204W) charge cells in pairs. Since I have various devices
using differing numbers of batteries I don't keep track of pairs.