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Hustle & FLow

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Anonymous
August 11, 2005 11:21:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the misconception
that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic is
"studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well.

Dave

More about : hustle flow

Anonymous
August 11, 2005 12:06:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ty Ford wrote:

> While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more
> diffusion than a flat wall.

Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion
offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF)
will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall.
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 2:25:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <EcGdneOPS91fpmbfRVn-sg@rogers.com> jmd_2003@msn.com writes:

> Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the misconception
> that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic is
> "studio grade".


Well, think "hustle" and it'll all make sense.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 2:35:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Grant <jmd_2003@msn.com> wrote:
>Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the misconception
>that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic is
>"studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well.

But that is what Hollywood is about. It's all about encouraging fantasies.

I mean, you don't think an elephant really COULD fly, do you?
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 2:43:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:21:15 -0400, David Grant wrote
(in article <EcGdneOPS91fpmbfRVn-sg@rogers.com>):

> Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the misconception
> that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic is
> "studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well.
>
> Dave
>
>

The key word there is "soundproof."

Many folks confuse soundproofing with acoustical treatment. Usually, both are
required.

While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more
diffusion than a flat wall.

An SM57 is a studio grade mic.

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 3:01:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

And I realize all this, but I meant the post in more of a "get ready for
another wave of misconception-ridden wanna-be recording engineers" kind of
way.

Dave

"Ty Ford" <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:NsadnYm63OVn_mbfRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:21:15 -0400, David Grant wrote
> (in article <EcGdneOPS91fpmbfRVn-sg@rogers.com>):
>
>> Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the
>> misconception
>> that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic
>> is
>> "studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>
> The key word there is "soundproof."
>
> Many folks confuse soundproofing with acoustical treatment. Usually, both
> are
> required.
>
> While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more
> diffusion than a flat wall.
>
> An SM57 is a studio grade mic.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
>
>
> -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other
> audiocentric
> stuff are at www.tyford.com
>
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 4:05:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 07:21:15 -0400, "David Grant" <jmd_2003@msn.com>
wrote:

>Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the misconception
>that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic is
>"studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well.
>
>Dave
>

There are an awful lot of them in an awful lot of studios. I think
that makes them studio grade.

And of course egg crate sort of looks like soundproofing, so it must
work. I've even seen shiny tin foil glued to the wall on the basis
that being shiny it will somehow "reflect" the sound.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 5:29:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Haven't seen the movie. But, I have been there, and have been around
tons of folks who have been there.

It is not that the egg cartons make for a proper studio. However, back
in the day that is all that we had and all that we could afford on a
shoestring budget. Of course we aspired to more appropriate and even
luxurious studios. Gotta start somewhere, though :-)

More importantly, however, it was (and is) ultimately about the music
and we had pride even in our makeshift studios, our mostly 2nd hand
equipment and our music. Guys, think back to some of the songs that we
made in some really crummy spaces and on crummy equipment!

You have me thinking, David. For the next studio I design for a client,
I think I will go with a nostalgic egg-carton look/feel - ha ha.

Hassan

David Grant wrote:
> > What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12"
> > and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them
> > cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had
> > a solid consistency.
> >
> > DM
>
> On second thought I think they were using those thick cup holders like they
> have at drive throughs... unless they were ostritch-egg cartons..
>
> Regardless, while the studio guy's nailing them to the wall the pimp/rapper
> character asks him what he's doing. His reply is "poor man's
> soundproofing" - my nose thereafter filled with cherry coke.
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 5:33:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Haven't seen the movie. But, I have been there, and have been around
tons of folks who have been there.

It is not that the egg cartons make for a proper studio. However, back
in the day that is all that we had and all that we could afford on a
shoestring budget. Of course we aspired to more appropriate and even
luxurious studios. Gotta start somewhere, though :-)

More importantly, however, it was (and is) ultimately about the music
and we had pride even in our makeshift studios, our mostly 2nd hand
equipment and our music. Guys, think back to some of the songs that we
made in some really crummy spaces and on crummy equipment!

You have me thinking, David. For the next studio I design for a client,
I think I will go with a nostalgic egg-carton look/feel - ha ha.

Hassan

David Grant wrote:
> > What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12"
> > and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them
> > cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had
> > a solid consistency.
> >
> > DM
>
> On second thought I think they were using those thick cup holders like they
> have at drive throughs... unless they were ostritch-egg cartons..
>
> Regardless, while the studio guy's nailing them to the wall the pimp/rapper
> character asks him what he's doing. His reply is "poor man's
> soundproofing" - my nose thereafter filled with cherry coke.
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 5:48:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"David Grant" <jmd_2003@msn.com> wrote in message
news:EcGdneOPS91fpmbfRVn-sg@rogers.com...
> Anyone get a chance to go watch this movie? It perpetuates the
misconception
> that egg crates stapled to a wall will soundproof it, and that a $250 mic
is
> "studio grade". There's a slew of other wishful thinking as well.
>
> Dave

I don't know, an awful lot of hip hop records sound pretty cheap to me. I've
heard some high-budget records that sound about the same as the cheap ones,
with better mixing. Just about the only reason for a hip hop act to go into
a good studio is for protools, for the sound, and an SSL, for the luxury.

The egg crate thing is ridiculous, though, you'd think the set designer
could at least give someone a call as opposed to inflicting their romantic
vision on the world. There are other things you can make out of trash that
do a much better job.

jb
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 8:54:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Buster Mudd" <mr_furious@mail.com> wrote in message news:1123772809.024903.39790@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ty Ford wrote:
>
> > While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more
> > diffusion than a flat wall.
>
> Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion
> offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF)
> will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall.
>

I used egg cartons 30 years ago (when they were *very* thick), and I
can tell you that they are a definite improvement over flat walls. My
first experiment was in 1968, to cover an 8 x 8 room that was used
for snare drum lessons. The sound in the room was massively
improved and the transmission through walls seriously decreased.

But that was then and this is now...


--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 8:54:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
news:xpLKe.11636$0d.6555@trnddc06...
>
> "Buster Mudd" <mr_furious@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1123772809.024903.39790@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Ty Ford wrote:
> >
> > > While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide
more
> > > diffusion than a flat wall.
> >
> > Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion
> > offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF)
> > will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall.
> >
>
> I used egg cartons 30 years ago (when they were *very* thick), and I
> can tell you that they are a definite improvement over flat walls. My
> first experiment was in 1968, to cover an 8 x 8 room that was used
> for snare drum lessons. The sound in the room was massively
> improved and the transmission through walls seriously decreased.
>
> But that was then and this is now...
>

Well, most of them are styrofoam now, anyway. More like 'egg holders'.

jb
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 10:04:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <rLudnZ2dnZ2knqDknZ2dnaD1Zt-dnZ2dRVn-zZ2dnZ0@rogers.com> jmd_2003@msn.com writes:

> And I realize all this, but I meant the post in more of a "get ready for
> another wave of misconception-ridden wanna-be recording engineers" kind of
> way.

Egg cartons on the wall is such an old "concept" that I don't think
this is going to spawn any new misconceptions. Besides, where I
usually buy my eggs, the cartons are smooth plastic, which probably, in
reality, makes them better diffusors than the paper cartons, and there
are a lot of Styrofoam egg cartons in use now, too.

But then I didn't see the movie. Does it show the classic gray rough
paper cartons?

Is the scene about building a recording studio, where one of the
characters explains how he soundproofed the room with those egg
cartons?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 10:06:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"reddred" <opaloka@REMOVECAPSyahoo.com> wrote in message news:D 8SdnZ2dnZ33M2agnZ2dnUsSZt-dnZ2dRVn-y52dnZ0@adelphia.com...
>
> "David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
> news:xpLKe.11636$0d.6555@trnddc06...
> >
> > "Buster Mudd" <mr_furious@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:1123772809.024903.39790@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > Ty Ford wrote:
> > >
> > > > While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide
> more
> > > > diffusion than a flat wall.
> > >
> > > Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion
> > > offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF)
> > > will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall.
> > >
> >
> > I used egg cartons 30 years ago (when they were *very* thick), and I
> > can tell you that they are a definite improvement over flat walls. My
> > first experiment was in 1968, to cover an 8 x 8 room that was used
> > for snare drum lessons. The sound in the room was massively
> > improved and the transmission through walls seriously decreased.
> >
> > But that was then and this is now...


> Well, most of them are styrofoam now, anyway. More like 'egg holders'.

And flimsy ones, at that. You're lucky to get home with whole eggs
these days (or even buy a full dozen) unless you carry them seperately
and treat them like they were some sort of nitroglycerin. <g>

What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12"
and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them
cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had
a solid consistency.

DM
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 10:06:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
news:6tMKe.11871$0d.9714@trnddc06...
>
> "reddred" <opaloka@REMOVECAPSyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:D 8SdnZ2dnZ33M2agnZ2dnUsSZt-dnZ2dRVn-y52dnZ0@adelphia.com...
> >
> > "David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
> > news:xpLKe.11636$0d.6555@trnddc06...
> > >
> > > "Buster Mudd" <mr_furious@mail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1123772809.024903.39790@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > > Ty Ford wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide
> > more
> > > > > diffusion than a flat wall.
> > > >
> > > > Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the
diffusion
> > > > offered by egg cartons (See
http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF)
> > > > will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I used egg cartons 30 years ago (when they were *very* thick), and I
> > > can tell you that they are a definite improvement over flat walls. My
> > > first experiment was in 1968, to cover an 8 x 8 room that was used
> > > for snare drum lessons. The sound in the room was massively
> > > improved and the transmission through walls seriously decreased.
> > >
> > > But that was then and this is now...
>
>
> > Well, most of them are styrofoam now, anyway. More like 'egg holders'.
>
> And flimsy ones, at that. You're lucky to get home with whole eggs
> these days (or even buy a full dozen) unless you carry them seperately
> and treat them like they were some sort of nitroglycerin. <g>
>
> What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12"
> and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them
> cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had
> a solid consistency.
>
> DM
>

My experience is that just about anything can work to diffuse some
reflections, unless it's reflective itself. But, yeah, I don't think the
newer egg cartons are going to be much better than notebook paper.

Pretty soon I think we'll start to see eggs with thicker shells, the
multi-billion dollar industry response to the problem of flimsy egg cartons.
Never mind that I'd be happy to pay a few cents more to get a durable carton
with my eggs.

Kind of like the tasteless tomatoes that take longer to rot - make a
'better' tomato instead of growing them nearer to people's houses, or
refraining from letting produce sit around in unventilated warehouses.

jb
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 10:06:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12"
> and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them
> cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had
> a solid consistency.
>
> DM

On second thought I think they were using those thick cup holders like they
have at drive throughs... unless they were ostritch-egg cartons..

Regardless, while the studio guy's nailing them to the wall the pimp/rapper
character asks him what he's doing. His reply is "poor man's
soundproofing" - my nose thereafter filled with cherry coke.
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 10:48:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:06:58 -0400, David Morgan \(MAMS\) wrote
(in article <6tMKe.11871$0d.9714@trnddc06>):

>
>> Well, most of them are styrofoam now, anyway. More like 'egg holders'.
>
> And flimsy ones, at that. You're lucky to get home with whole eggs these
> days (or even buy a full dozen) unless you carry them seperately and treat
> them like they were some sort of nitroglycerin. <g>
>
> What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12" and hard
> as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them cardboard, but it
> was some type of molded paper product that had a solid consistency.
>
> DM
>

Right. That's what I used back in the 1970's.

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 2:11:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Grant <jmd_2003@msn.com> wrote:

> > What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12"
> > and hard as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them
> > cardboard, but it was some type of molded paper product that had
> > a solid consistency.
> >
> > DM
>
> On second thought I think they were using those thick cup holders like they
> have at drive throughs... unless they were ostritch-egg cartons..
>
> Regardless, while the studio guy's nailing them to the wall the pimp/rapper
> character asks him what he's doing. His reply is "poor man's
> soundproofing" - my nose thereafter filled with cherry coke.


I haven't seen the movie. But if it's portraying the guy as someone
who's taking some erroneous information and applying it to his
endeavor, then it sounds like a very accurate and realistic portrayal
to me. Maybe the screenwriter knew this was factually erroneous, but
his character didn't know it.

ulysses
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 7:27:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
news:D dfnoa$8tb$1@panix2.panix.com:

> But that is what Hollywood is about. It's all about encouraging
> fantasies.
>
> I mean, you don't think an elephant really COULD fly, do you?

I saw a peanut stand.
Heard a rubber band.
I saw a needle that winked its eye.
I saw a front porch swing.
Heard a diamond ring.
I saw a polka-dot railroad tie.
I heard a fireside chat.
I saw a baseball bat.
I even heard a chocolate drop.
I went into a store, saw a bicycle shop.
Saw an old barn dance,
But I think I will have seen everything
When I see an elephant fly.
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 8:23:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Buster Mudd wrote:

> Ty Ford wrote:
>
> > While not elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons provide more
> > diffusion than a flat wall.
>
> Clearly a case where more=less. It's highly unlikely that the diffusion
> offered by egg cartons (See http://www.acousticsfirst.com/docs/egg.PDF)
> will yield any sonic improvement over a flat wall.

Diffusion can be your friend.
I'd think more about resonance.
Do you think they might resonate in the same
range an SM57 ?

rd
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 8:38:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ty Ford wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:06:58 -0400, David Morgan \(MAMS\) wrote
> > What I used was actually a 36-egg "tray"... they were about 12x12" and hard
> > as a rock, around 3/16 of an inch thick. They called them cardboard, but it
> > was some type of molded paper product that had a solid consistency.
> >
> > DM
> >
>
> Right. That's what I used back in the 1970's.

I remember those. A band I was with in the '70s
had an 'investor' that owned a restraunt. We had
warehouse space and an unlimited supply of egg trays.

rd
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 4:18:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ty Ford wrote:
>
>
> Mr. Mudd was probably not around then. And I'm more prone to
> believe my ears than a pdf file on some website.
>


Right, Ty, no one in audio is older than you. Hey, I'll bet there's a
review of those egg cartons on your website, right?
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 6:28:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-08-11 mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com said:
>Newsgroupsnot elegant, pretty or highly effective, egg cartons
>>provide more > diffusion than a flat wall.
>> <snippage>
>I used egg cartons 30 years ago (when they were *very* thick), and I
>can tell you that they are a definite improvement over flat walls.
>My first experiment was in 1968, to cover an 8 x 8 room that was
>used for snare drum lessons. The sound in the room was massively
>improved and the transmission through walls seriously decreased.
>But that was then and this is now...
WE used egg cartons back in the late seventies with a band I played
with in ST. Louis. wE didn't get a lot of sound proofing but did get
some difusion, good for practice. Also our dru m room which was in
the same basement sounded much better after treatment.
The most fun was building a movable wall to cover over the ducting
from the old gravity fed furnace, those big cold air return pipes
played havoc with the sound when the whole band was rehearsing.
Building a gobo solved that problem.



Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--



SUV owners roll over for terrorism.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 1:40:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:18:55 -0400, Buster Mudd wrote
(in article <1123874335.043020.294930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):

> Ty Ford wrote:
>>
>>
>> Mr. Mudd was probably not around then. And I'm more prone to
>> believe my ears than a pdf file on some website.
>>
>
>
> Right, Ty, no one in audio is older than you. Hey, I'll bet there's a
> review of those egg cartons on your website, right?
>

Actually, I think Harvey is.

When I think about how much I thought I knew back then and how much I have
learned since then, I am shocked and humbled.

I wasn't getting paid to write reviews back then. I was writing weird ad copy
for WHFS in Bethesda, MD so the other hippies wouldn't piss and moan that we
had sold out.

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS: It never occurred to me that egg cartons aren't what they used to be, but
then neither is the Sennheiser 421.

-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
!