1 Horse Towns

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Anyone out there running studios in small towns where there is no other
studio in at least a 60 mile radius? I'm wanting to open a studio but am
torn. On one side, there is no other studio for competition. On the other,
there must be some reason why there isn't. I know why the last guy failed,
and that was because of his lack of business skills and responsibility.

So any tips on starting up a studio, especially in a situation like mine?
I've been reading information on the Net and in books but would like some
first hand conversation with some folks. Thanks a lot.

Thomas
30 answers Last reply
More about horse towns
  1. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Thomas Bishop <bishopthomas@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
    >Anyone out there running studios in small towns where there is no other
    >studio in at least a 60 mile radius? I'm wanting to open a studio but am
    >torn. On one side, there is no other studio for competition. On the other,
    >there must be some reason why there isn't. I know why the last guy failed,
    >and that was because of his lack of business skills and responsibility.

    I used to be running the only studio within about that distance.

    But now, every kid and his brother has a home studio, and all of them
    are advertising they can sell studio time. (And for the most part
    they charge between a fifth and a tenth what I charge).

    It's definitely changed my marketing, and I am doing a lot more remote
    recording than I was fifteen years ago. And going a lot farther afield.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  2. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Scott Dorsey wrote:
    > I used to be running the only studio within about that distance.
    >
    > But now, every kid and his brother has a home studio, and all of them
    > are advertising they can sell studio time. (And for the most part
    > they charge between a fifth and a tenth what I charge).
    >
    > It's definitely changed my marketing, and I am doing a lot more remote
    > recording than I was fifteen years ago. And going a lot farther afield.


    I have been leaning toward remote for the last several years, but am
    not sure that there is a market for it here. Every band has access to
    some type of recorder here, too, but none are getting studio results or
    the studio experience. Most would probably have to be convinced very
    heavily that they need both. Do you think this is a matter of
    marketing, convincing them that I have something that they will never
    be able to get, or is it a futile effort? I know only time will tell
    for sure, but I guess I'm just scared.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    I find that its possible to get some of the revenue lost from home
    studios by running courses and workshops from the studio. Teaching
    people why they cant get as good a result as at home. If the classes
    are small you can give a quality workshop or short course and still
    have the oppertunity to move the class if the need arises.
    I think it's always been the case that most studios need mor sources of
    income than just the studio itself. Most of the big studios I have
    worked for have all had a rental income from sub letting office space
    etc. in addition to studio rental itself.
    Don't forget to mark up the tape too. :o)
  4. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    I am trying to start an instrument lesson facility along with the
    studio, which would at least help pay the bills. I'm not looking to
    get rich off of this, but it's what I love doing and have wanted to
    open a studio for several years now. I guess I should just take the
    plunge and hope for the best (with careful planning, of course).
  5. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Is there another business (or business model) that has ever been hit by
    this amateur competition facilitated by cheap technolgy / I cant think
    of one.
    It's like the local garage being replaced by lots of shadetree
    mechanics because SUN or someone sold them a PC based auto repair
    system.

    Kevin T
  6. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    I'd say design and printing etc. has seen some changes.
    Photography has changed alot too. Guys used to make a nice mark-up on
    processing.
    Our studio is happening for about 2 and a half years. The first year
    was doing 'mates' recordings etc. Alot of our work is starting sessions
    (recording drums and all that) and mixing stuff people have done at
    home. I find people want a producer as much as they need a studio. We
    cater for easily as many home studio people as we do bands.
    DS
  7. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Thomas Bishop wrote:
    > I am trying to start an instrument lesson facility along with the
    > studio, which would at least help pay the bills. I'm not looking to
    > get rich off of this, but it's what I love doing and have wanted to
    > open a studio for several years now. I guess I should just take the
    > plunge and hope for the best (with careful planning, of course).
    >

    I've been working on establishing a hard wall at some point, but currently run a mobile/remote setup
    for capturing performances/sessions. It's been around ten years that I've been scraping together
    funds to purchase the higher quality equipment you won't find in those home studios. And I think
    that is part of the key to wooing clientele, showing them you are worth what you are charging
    because you a) have the experience these "kids" do not and, b) you have higher quality equipment and
    know how to use it correctly.

    There is a psychological component to musicians, as you may be aware, that you have to appeal to.
    They want a million dollar studio quality sound and think you can do it on the two thousand buck
    setup their friend has put together, or they themselves have cobbled together, but do not actually
    know how to use to obtain the best sound.

    If your time allows, give them a free hour to come in and lay down a real basic "live" track -- one
    song, and then mix it down. Tell them it's "on the house" as a "proof" that your setup will help
    them sound like what they hear in their head (if possible!). Yes, it will take them an hour just to
    set up their gear, but the potential twenty to thirty hours of business may be worth the "investment".

    And you give them the mix of the song to take with them to listen to. The more they listen to what
    you've "given" them, the more it will convince them their friend, or their own gear, just won't do
    *that*, no matter how hard they try... and they will try.

    It's an idea that generally can work in your favour because if you have no clientele, you lose
    nothing, get to use the gear and get musicians talking about your studio and playing the results for
    their friends. And if that gets other bands/players to come check out your setup, you begin to move
    forward.

    Not less than two cents' worth...

    --fletch
  8. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1123776088.666223.164760@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
    > I am trying to start an instrument lesson facility along with the
    > studio, which would at least help pay the bills. I'm not looking to
    > get rich off of this, but it's what I love doing and have wanted to
    > open a studio for several years now. I guess I should just take the
    > plunge and hope for the best (with careful planning, of course).
    >

    Well, keep overhead low if not next-to-nothing, at least until you know
    something about your market. How many musicians are around? How many are
    willing to pay as opposed to 'this is just a hobby and my other buddy has a
    phillips CD recorder and a PC'? I'd say design your business to be as
    flexible as possible - be ready to record anything, anywhere, and have gear
    designed for that.

    jb
  9. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Thomas Bishop <bishopthomas@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >Scott Dorsey wrote:
    >> I used to be running the only studio within about that distance.
    >>
    >> But now, every kid and his brother has a home studio, and all of them
    >> are advertising they can sell studio time. (And for the most part
    >> they charge between a fifth and a tenth what I charge).
    >>
    >> It's definitely changed my marketing, and I am doing a lot more remote
    >> recording than I was fifteen years ago. And going a lot farther afield.
    >
    >I have been leaning toward remote for the last several years, but am
    >not sure that there is a market for it here. Every band has access to
    >some type of recorder here, too, but none are getting studio results or
    >the studio experience. Most would probably have to be convinced very
    >heavily that they need both. Do you think this is a matter of
    >marketing, convincing them that I have something that they will never
    >be able to get, or is it a futile effort? I know only time will tell
    >for sure, but I guess I'm just scared.

    I don't know. I'm not a very good marketing guy, but I did see a niche
    and I moved into it. Convincing people that they need my services is
    something that I am very bad at. And in a small area, you can't really
    hire someone who is.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  10. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    KGT <kgtracy@gmail.com> wrote:
    >Is there another business (or business model) that has ever been hit by
    >this amateur competition facilitated by cheap technolgy / I cant think
    >of one.

    Lots of them. If you think the audio guys are screaming, you should just
    see what the cinematographers are doing. They are getting hit very badly
    by huge legions of kids with cheap digital camcorders. The current craze
    for reality TV is not helping.

    >It's like the local garage being replaced by lots of shadetree
    >mechanics because SUN or someone sold them a PC based auto repair
    >system.

    Look around your area. How many quick oil change shops do you see?
    Now, how many places with real mechanics do you see? That collapse
    happened years ago, in part fostered by higher technology cars and
    manufacturers that didn't document how things worked, which made
    actual skilled diagnosis a thing of the past.

    The computer industry is even worse.... thousands of kids working on
    Windows machines who really have no clue how they work inside, competing
    with skilled sysadmins. Oh, well, you just reinstall the OS when anything
    goes wrong anyway.
    --scott
    >


    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  11. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Thomas Bishop wrote:
    > Anyone out there running studios in small towns where there is no other
    > studio in at least a 60 mile radius? I'm wanting to open a studio but am
    > torn. On one side, there is no other studio for competition. On the other,
    > there must be some reason why there isn't. I know why the last guy failed,
    > and that was because of his lack of business skills and responsibility.

    Having grown up in a one-horse town, the most obvious reason I can think
    of would be that there's no market for it in the area.

    As others have noted, the proliferation of cheap digital gear that lets
    any kid with a ProTools setup open a "studio" and sell time for a
    fraction of your price doesn't help, and is probably a much more viable
    "market" in a small town.

    Musicians/artists can generally be divided into two groups: those with
    little or no money (to whom the above "studios" cater), and those with
    gobs and gobs of record-company money to toss around who will book a
    "destination" studio - their choice will be based on reputation, or
    location, or other such factors, and are not limited to working in their
    own area.

    > So any tips on starting up a studio, especially in a situation like mine?
    > I've been reading information on the Net and in books but would like some
    > first hand conversation with some folks. Thanks a lot.

    Growing up in my one-horse town, my buddy and I had the idea long ago to
    create a "destination" studio that would attact the big names with their
    big money to the area. We're talking about a "boondocks" area, for a
    minimum of distractions, but with gorgeous high-country views, and when
    those small distractions WERE needed, there was (still is) a well-known
    four-star resort hotel with golf course and airstrip, and a world-known
    fat farm... sorry, "spa"... combined with a high-end studio facility,
    all things we figured would create its own market for artists with the
    money to spend looking for a good place to spend it.

    Depending on what else the area has to offer, this may be an angle to
    pursue.


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  12. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <kBJKe.3186$Ub1.519@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> bishopthomas@sbcglobal.net writes:

    > Anyone out there running studios in small towns where there is no other
    > studio in at least a 60 mile radius? I'm wanting to open a studio but am
    > torn. On one side, there is no other studio for competition. On the other,
    > there must be some reason why there isn't.

    Perhaps the horse has his own ProTools system.

    > So any tips on starting up a studio, especially in a situation like mine?

    First, figure out if you'll have any customers. If you don't have the
    clients, don't start the studio. Of course if you're a music producer
    or artist yourself and plan to have only yourself as a client, then a
    low rent low tax area is going to be a big advantage.


    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
    However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
    lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
    you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
    and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  13. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
    news:ddgauv$omo$1@panix2.panix.com...

    > The computer industry is even worse....

    Very true.

    >thousands of kids working on
    > Windows machines who really have no clue how they work inside, competing
    > with skilled sysadmins.

    True. But a lot of times they don't compete twice.

    >Oh, well, you just reinstall the OS when anything
    > goes wrong anyway.

    Also true. But possibly worse are the guys who do eight hour jobs, futzing
    around for $400, and get nothing done, when a backup and reinstall,
    returning the machine to 'factory condition', is the most practical
    solution.

    It's getting to the point where it won't matter anyway, who the hell pays
    someone to fix their Xbox?

    jb
  14. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On 11 Aug 2005 16:03:43 -0400, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

    >The computer industry is even worse.... thousands of kids working on
    >Windows machines who really have no clue how they work inside, competing
    >with skilled sysadmins. Oh, well, you just reinstall the OS when anything
    >goes wrong anyway.

    Indeed. And we don't strip down spark plugs any more either. I love
    problem-solving. But must constantly remind myself that
    wipe-and-reinstall is the logical path. If I use any skill, it's in
    retrieving user data from the bad system.
  15. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "KGT" <kgtracy@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1123783562.767772.241440@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > Is there another business (or business model) that has ever been hit by
    > this amateur competition facilitated by cheap technolgy / I cant think
    > of one.
    > It's like the local garage being replaced by lots of shadetree
    > mechanics because SUN or someone sold them a PC based auto repair
    > system.

    Professional magazine feature photography.

    When I was coming up, reporters wrote and photographers photographed,
    because photography required a certain amount of technical skill. The
    reporter-photographer team was standard.

    In the 1970s, Canon introduced a camera called the AE-1, which automated
    lots of things in a fairly idiot-proof way, and magazines began equipping
    their reporters with AE-1s when they sent them out on a story. The pictures
    were usually technically acceptable. They weren't as good as the ones the
    professional photographers shot, but they were adequate, they filled the
    space, they were pictures, and (most important) the magazines no longer had
    to pay a photographer.

    No, the free-lance magazine feature photographer hasn't entirely
    disappeared, but they're endangered.

    Peace,
    Paul
  16. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Scott Dorsey wrote:
    > KGT <kgtracy@gmail.com> wrote:
    > >Is there another business (or business model) that has ever been hit by
    > >this amateur competition facilitated by cheap technolgy / I cant think
    > >of one.
    >
    > Lots of them. If you think the audio guys are screaming, you should just
    > see what the cinematographers are doing. They are getting hit very badly
    > by huge legions of kids with cheap digital camcorders. The current craze
    > for reality TV is not helping.
    >
    > >It's like the local garage being replaced by lots of shadetree
    > >mechanics because SUN or someone sold them a PC based auto repair
    > >system.
    >
    > Look around your area. How many quick oil change shops do you see?
    > Now, how many places with real mechanics do you see? That collapse
    > happened years ago, in part fostered by higher technology cars and
    > manufacturers that didn't document how things worked, which made
    > actual skilled diagnosis a thing of the past.
    >
    > The computer industry is even worse.... thousands of kids working on
    > Windows machines who really have no clue how they work inside, competing
    > with skilled sysadmins. Oh, well, you just reinstall the OS when anything
    > goes wrong anyway.
    > --scott
    > >
    >
    >
    > --
    > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


    There is a guy who has been doing a sort of digital video service
    thingy for live music/comedy/rap whatever. He does it with little
    Mini-DV cams and overall it is fairly amatuerish. But that is what
    someone on the higher end is up against. But by the same token, I'm not
    sure the bigger players would have ever seen any of that business.

    I wonder if the actual volume of business in larger, more traditional
    studios is really down or if maybe the business itself expanded beyond
    its realistic market. Looking at it, the proliferation of lower end
    audio recording gear was initially fostered by the success of the
    bigger players and the throw off, equipment that the next tier down was
    able to scoop up and use.

    Mike
  17. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Thomas Bishop wrote:

    > Anyone out there running studios in small towns where there is no other
    > studio in at least a 60 mile radius? I'm wanting to open a studio but am
    > torn. On one side, there is no other studio for competition. On the other,
    > there must be some reason why there isn't. I know why the last guy failed,
    > and that was because of his lack of business skills and responsibility.
    >
    > So any tips on starting up a studio, especially in a situation like mine?
    > I've been reading information on the Net and in books but would like some
    > first hand conversation with some folks. Thanks a lot.

    The only local studios I can think of over here in the UK that even remotely
    make enough money even to stay open earn their bread and butter by providing
    rehearsal rooms. You might care to consider if you can do that. It's likely to
    be a more regular income. Studio work is then the icing on the cake.

    Graham
  18. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in
    news:42FCFBAB.1B21E11C@hotmail.com:

    > The only local studios I can think of over here in the UK that even
    > remotely make enough money even to stay open earn their bread and
    > butter by providing rehearsal rooms. You might care to consider if you
    > can do that. It's likely to be a more regular income. Studio work is
    > then the icing on the cake.

    That sounds like a sensible combination. Provide people a place to
    practice so that when they get good they can record in the studio.
  19. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > The only local studios I can think of over here in the UK that even
    > remotely
    > make enough money even to stay open earn their bread and butter by
    > providing
    > rehearsal rooms. You might care to consider if you can do that. It's
    > likely to
    > be a more regular income. Studio work is then the icing on the cake.

    I have considered that, but I'm afraid too many musicians here are either
    kids who practice in dad's garage or they rent a house with a basement and
    don't mind the cops being called on them 3 times a night, as long as it's
    "free."
  20. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Thomas Bishop wrote:

    > "Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > > The only local studios I can think of over here in the UK that even
    > > remotely
    > > make enough money even to stay open earn their bread and butter by
    > > providing
    > > rehearsal rooms. You might care to consider if you can do that. It's
    > > likely to
    > > be a more regular income. Studio work is then the icing on the cake.
    >
    > I have considered that, but I'm afraid too many musicians here are either
    > kids who practice in dad's garage or they rent a house with a basement and
    > don't mind the cops being called on them 3 times a night, as long as it's
    > "free."

    If that's the case I can't see you getting much studio work either to be
    honest.

    Graham
  21. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 01:45:31 GMT, "Thomas Bishop"
    <bishopthomas@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    >I have considered that, but I'm afraid too many musicians here are either
    >kids who practice in dad's garage or they rent a house with a basement and
    >don't mind the cops being called on them 3 times a night, as long as it's
    >"free."


    OK. Well, you seem to know all the reasons NOT to open a studio :-)

    What do you really want? A studio for you? Can you afford to build
    one? If so, maybe you'll pick up pin money working for other people.
    Or do you see an opening in your community? Or a market that can be
    developed? If you were a bank, would you lend money to set up this
    project?

    I think the best reason to do this sort of thing is because you're
    doing it already in your bedroom or whatever, and getting so much work
    that it's criminal to turn the money away for lack of resources.
    Another good reason is to do it because you want to. But that's a
    hobby, not a business plan.
  22. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Paul Stamler wrote:

    > "KGT" <kgtracy@gmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:1123783562.767772.241440@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > > Is there another business (or business model) that has ever been hit by
    > > this amateur competition facilitated by cheap technolgy / I cant think
    > > of one.
    > > It's like the local garage being replaced by lots of shadetree
    > > mechanics because SUN or someone sold them a PC based auto repair
    > > system.
    >
    > Professional magazine feature photography.
    >
    > When I was coming up, reporters wrote and photographers photographed,
    > because photography required a certain amount of technical skill. The
    > reporter-photographer team was standard.
    >
    > In the 1970s, Canon introduced a camera called the AE-1, which automated
    > lots of things in a fairly idiot-proof way, and magazines began equipping
    > their reporters with AE-1s when they sent them out on a story. The pictures
    > were usually technically acceptable. They weren't as good as the ones the
    > professional photographers shot, but they were adequate, they filled the
    > space, they were pictures, and (most important) the magazines no longer had
    > to pay a photographer.
    >
    > No, the free-lance magazine feature photographer hasn't entirely
    > disappeared, but they're endangered.

    In the name of doing it cheaper many things have become 'adequate' rather than
    good as they once were.

    Graham
  23. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In reference to going from serious Semi-Pro to full time ( Musician or
    Engineer) a Long time ago a wise older muisician said something I'm
    only beginning to appreciate.
    " The best way to ruin a perfectly good hobby is make a job out of it"

    He might have been right for multiple reasons!

    Kevin T.
  24. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    KGT wrote:


    > " The best way to ruin a perfectly good hobby is make a job out of it"
    >

    Kevin, that sounds like a good 'sig' line. May I borrow it?
    DaveD
  25. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Sure, why not. I did

    Kevin T
  26. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Pooh Bear wrote:

    > Paul Stamler wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"KGT" <kgtracy@gmail.com> wrote in message
    >>news:1123783562.767772.241440@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >>
    >>>Is there another business (or business model) that has ever been hit by
    >>>this amateur competition facilitated by cheap technolgy / I cant think
    >>>of one.
    >>>It's like the local garage being replaced by lots of shadetree
    >>>mechanics because SUN or someone sold them a PC based auto repair
    >>>system.
    >>
    >>Professional magazine feature photography.
    >>
    >>When I was coming up, reporters wrote and photographers photographed,
    >>because photography required a certain amount of technical skill. The
    >>reporter-photographer team was standard.
    >>
    >>In the 1970s, Canon introduced a camera called the AE-1, which automated
    >>lots of things in a fairly idiot-proof way, and magazines began equipping
    >>their reporters with AE-1s when they sent them out on a story. The pictures
    >>were usually technically acceptable. They weren't as good as the ones the
    >>professional photographers shot, but they were adequate, they filled the
    >>space, they were pictures, and (most important) the magazines no longer had
    >>to pay a photographer.
    >>
    >>No, the free-lance magazine feature photographer hasn't entirely
    >>disappeared, but they're endangered.
    >
    >
    > In the name of doing it cheaper many things have become 'adequate' rather than
    > good as they once were.

    Same holds true for editors in many publications these days. I'm
    constantly apalled at the spellng and grammatical errors I see even in
    major papers and magazines.


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  27. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
    news:rFAMe.32304$vj.10381@pd7tw1no...

    > Same holds true for editors in many publications these days. I'm
    > constantly apalled at the spellng and grammatical errors I see even in
    > major papers and magazines.

    And on Usenet. :-)

    Hal Laurent
    Baltimore
  28. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    On 2005-08-17 laurent@charm.net said:
    >> Same holds true for editors in many publications these days. I'm
    >> constantly apalled at the spellng and grammatical errors I see
    >>even in major papers and magazines.
    >And on Usenet. :-)
    True enough, but I expect to see them on usenet and in emails that are
    quickly dashed off from one to another. wHen I see them in major
    newspapers however I'm appalled. THese are folks who are supposed to
    know better.
    tHe weirdest trend I've seen there is hyphenating a word to make it
    fit within the column space where there shouldn't be such a break.
    Hey it's acceptable, we got autotune for ya so ya don't hafta know how
    to sing.
    Karaoke here tonight!!!


    Richard Webb,
    Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
    REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

    --


    Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
  29. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Hal Laurent wrote:

    > "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
    > news:rFAMe.32304$vj.10381@pd7tw1no...
    >
    >
    >>Same holds true for editors in many publications these days. I'm
    >>constantly apalled at the spellng and grammatical errors I see even in
    >>major papers and magazines.
    >
    >
    > And on Usenet. :-)

    ....with allowances made for tired fingers...


    ---
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  30. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Hal Laurent wrote:

    > "Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
    > news:rFAMe.32304$vj.10381@pd7tw1no...
    >
    > > Same holds true for editors in many publications these days. I'm
    > > constantly apalled at the spellng and grammatical errors I see even in
    > > major papers and magazines.
    >
    > And on Usenet. :-)

    I'll forgive Usenet. Ppl typing fast make errors that really don't mater too
    much in the overall context. Going to print is another thing entirely.

    Graham
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