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Stereo Mic Recommendation Wanted

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Anonymous
August 12, 2005 9:17:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'm doing an installation in a school: Permanently-mounted microphone in
band and choir rehearsal rooms. They could probably make do with mono
but I thought it might be best to go with stereo. You can always convert
stereo to mono if need be, but going the other way doesn't work :-)
I'd prefer to keep things simple and use a single stereo mic rather than
two separate mics. Probably need to keep price under $500.00 each and,
because they'll be ceiling-mounted, no on-board batteries.
Recommendations most appreciated.

--
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 12:56:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ddj2sh02ob@news2.newsguy.com> mark@robertstech.com writes:

> I'm doing an installation in a school: Permanently-mounted microphone in
> band and choir rehearsal rooms.

> I'd prefer to keep things simple and use a single stereo mic rather than
> two separate mics. Probably need to keep price under $500.00 each and,
> because they'll be ceiling-mounted, no on-board batteries.

What does a Crown SASS cost these days? It's about a grand list, but
you'll have to call someone for "our price" to find out for sure.
That's a stereo mic that it's hard to get a bad recording from as long
as it's pointed in about the right direction. You can get a better or
worse recording, but you'll almost always get something usable from
it.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 12:56:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have to agree with Mike Rivers for the application. The Crown SASS-P
MKII is perfect for such a permanent install, and you can probably find
it for just a few bills above your budget.

However, I've been very very curious to hear just how bad (or good) the
Studio Projects LSD2 sounds for the money, particularly in MS/Blumlein
configuration. It's about the same list price as the crown mentioned
above, but if not a complete piece of poo, would be a far more
versatile investment for a permanent installation as a result of the
remote pattern box.
Related resources
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 1:49:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I was pleasantly surprised by the Sennheiser MKE-44. Not the most
physically robust mic in the world, but that's not an issue in a fixed
installation. Sounds really decent for a cheap mic (B&H sells it for
$469).

http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/root/0...

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

"Mark Roberts" <mark@robertstech.com> wrote in message
news:D dj2sh02ob@news2.newsguy.com...
> I'm doing an installation in a school: Permanently-mounted microphone
> in
> band and choir rehearsal rooms. They could probably make do with mono
> but I thought it might be best to go with stereo. You can always
> convert
> stereo to mono if need be, but going the other way doesn't work :-)
> I'd prefer to keep things simple and use a single stereo mic rather
> than
> two separate mics. Probably need to keep price under $500.00 each and,
> because they'll be ceiling-mounted, no on-board batteries.
> Recommendations most appreciated.
>
> --
> Mark Roberts
> Photography and writing
> www.robertstech.com
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 2:26:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mark Roberts wrote:
> I'm doing an installation in a school: Permanently-mounted microphone in
> band and choir rehearsal rooms. They could probably make do with mono
> but I thought it might be best to go with stereo. You can always convert
> stereo to mono if need be, but going the other way doesn't work :-)
> I'd prefer to keep things simple and use a single stereo mic rather than
> two separate mics. Probably need to keep price under $500.00 each and,
> because they'll be ceiling-mounted, no on-board batteries.
> Recommendations most appreciated.


The Audio-Technica 853A Hanging Choir Mic was designed for such a
purpose, and sound pretty good. They come in hypercardiod, cardiod and
omni patterns, They're not stereo mics but they do work well as spaced
cardiods. While at $199 ea. they aren't Scheops quality, but they're
servicable mics, are easy to install with the included hanging adapter,
and the optional ceiling plate accessory is a nice finishing touch for
an install.

I have used the cardiod versions I had setup as spaced audience mics on
a choir and they had a surprisingly good "reach" and off axis
rejection. At 25' above the choir in a notoriously hollow sounding
formica and glass studio I had to *add* reverb, the choir sounded very
close but nicely blended at the distance. A pleasant surprise,
especially as it was a last minute-you have 10 minutes to setup for it
- kind of situation, where given my druthers I would have probably done
something else, but it turned out a lot better than I expected.

If your application is more documentary than making a record, where
people aren't even always setup in the sweetspot, they should be fine.
Good for live sound and TV certainly, and if I had to use them for
recording say a Gospel choir with a band I could make them work.
Although a trio of small omni lavaliers on wires, pretending they are
Scheops setup in a NYC recital hall as a Decca Tree could work ok too.
Or a couple of PZMs slapped on the walls (which is typical in a some of
the rehearsal studios in the City and out in Williamsburg...)

Will Miho
NY Music and TV Audio for Video Guy
"The large print taketh and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 7:01:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The Crown is an overpriced product that uses inexpensive electret capsules.
I agree it's unlikely to give you an out-and-out bad recording, but "real"
condenser mics are going to give better over-all sound.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 7:19:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Another reason for using two separate mics...

You're going to have to do some experimenting to find the right location and
positioning for the mics. A stereo mic is more convenient, but there's less
room for adjustment.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 2:26:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1123896451.520626.66310@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> chriscavell@cavellstudios.com writes:

> However, I've been very very curious to hear just how bad (or good) the
> Studio Projects LSD2 sounds for the money, particularly in MS/Blumlein
> configuration.

I have one (and early one - there have been some changes but I believe
they're more cosmetic than sonic) and I think it sounds just fine. I
was going to suggest that as an alternative, but I think the SASS is
more forgiving as to placement, or at least is more likely to give you
something that's usable if it even looks like it's in the right place.

> if not a complete piece of poo, would be a far more
> versatile investment for a permanent installation as a result of the
> remote pattern box.

Hmmm . . . maybe they've changed it more than I knew. Mine doesn't
have a remote pattern box. I should check the web site. I don't know
that I'd fool with adjusting pattern widths too much, but I'd like to
have switches that are easier to see. I find myself using it in X-Y
more than M-S because of the characteristics of the rooms, but M-S
works just fine. The only time I've used it as crossed bi-directionals
when recording a singing guitarist, putting the guitar in the null of
the voice mic and the voice in the null of the guitar mic. But that's
not about what was asked.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 3:20:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mark Roberts" <mark@robertstech.com> wrote in message
news:D dj2sh02ob@news2.newsguy.com...
> I'm doing an installation in a school: Permanently-mounted microphone in
> band and choir rehearsal rooms. They could probably make do with mono
> but I thought it might be best to go with stereo. You can always convert
> stereo to mono if need be, but going the other way doesn't work :-)
> I'd prefer to keep things simple and use a single stereo mic rather than
> two separate mics. Probably need to keep price under $500.00 each and,
> because they'll be ceiling-mounted, no on-board batteries.
> Recommendations most appreciated.

RODE NT5 is very convenient if you want XY. Sounds way better than the
price too, to my ears, though XY is not my favourite method.

geoff
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 3:20:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Geoff Wood" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:42fd2e93@clear.net.nz
> "Mark Roberts" <mark@robertstech.com> wrote in message
> news:D dj2sh02ob@news2.newsguy.com...
>> I'm doing an installation in a school:
>> Permanently-mounted microphone in band and choir
>> rehearsal rooms. They could probably make do with mono
>> but I thought it might be best to go with stereo. You
>> can always convert stereo to mono if need be, but going
>> the other way doesn't work :-) I'd prefer to keep things
>> simple and use a single stereo
>> mic rather than two separate mics. Probably need to keep
>> price under $500.00 each and, because they'll be
>> ceiling-mounted, no on-board batteries. Recommendations
>> most appreciated.
>
> RODE NT5 is very convenient if you want XY. Sounds way
> better than the price too, to my ears, though XY is not
> my favourite method.

I'll second the NT5. I can quibble with how it looks, but
not with how it sounds. But unlike Geoff, I've got no
problems with XY micing. One of my favorite tools is an XY
mic made up of hypercardioids.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 3:20:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:20:02 -0400, Geoff Wood wrote
(in article <42fd2e93@clear.net.nz>):

>
> "Mark Roberts" <mark@robertstech.com> wrote in message
> news:D dj2sh02ob@news2.newsguy.com...
>> I'm doing an installation in a school: Permanently-mounted microphone in
>> band and choir rehearsal rooms. They could probably make do with mono
>> but I thought it might be best to go with stereo. You can always convert
>> stereo to mono if need be, but going the other way doesn't work :-)
>> I'd prefer to keep things simple and use a single stereo mic rather than
>> two separate mics. Probably need to keep price under $500.00 each and,
>> because they'll be ceiling-mounted, no on-board batteries.
>> Recommendations most appreciated.
>
> RODE NT5 is very convenient if you want XY. Sounds way better than the
> price too, to my ears, though XY is not my favourite method.
>
> geoff
>
>

NT4?

Ty

-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 3:20:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Ty Ford" <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:X6adnUK68ek0ZGDfRVn-3w@comcast.com
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:20:02 -0400, Geoff Wood wrote
> (in article <42fd2e93@clear.net.nz>):
>
>>
>> "Mark Roberts" <mark@robertstech.com> wrote in message
>> news:D dj2sh02ob@news2.newsguy.com...
>>> I'm doing an installation in a school:
>>> Permanently-mounted microphone in band and choir
>>> rehearsal rooms. They could probably make do with mono
>>> but I thought it might be best to go with stereo. You
>>> can always convert stereo to mono if need be, but going
>>> the other way doesn't work :-)
>>> I'd prefer to keep things simple and use a single
>>> stereo mic rather than two separate mics. Probably need
>>> to keep price under $500.00 each and, because they'll
>>> be ceiling-mounted, no on-board batteries.
>>> Recommendations most appreciated.
>>
>> RODE NT5 is very convenient if you want XY. Sounds way
>> better than the price too, to my ears, though XY is not
>> my favourite method.
>>
>> geoff
>>
>>
>
> NT4?

NT4!

AKA one of the more stranger looking contraptions around. I
suspect its body is mostly empty space.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 3:20:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" wrote ...
> NT4!
>
> AKA one of the more stranger looking contraptions
> around. I suspect its body is mostly empty space.

It is entirely filled with the XLR connector at the bottom,
the battery compartment, and a rather large PC board for
the electronics. Agreed, if they had used SMD components,
the board could have been less than half its deisgned size.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 4:10:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mark Roberts" <mark@robertstech.com> wrote in message
news:D dj2sh02ob@news2.newsguy.com...
> I'm doing an installation in a school: Permanently-mounted microphone in
> band and choir rehearsal rooms. They could probably make do with mono
> but I thought it might be best to go with stereo. You can always convert
> stereo to mono if need be, but going the other way doesn't work :-)
> I'd prefer to keep things simple and use a single stereo mic rather than
> two separate mics. Probably need to keep price under $500.00 each and,
> because they'll be ceiling-mounted, no on-board batteries.
> Recommendations most appreciated.
>
> --
> Mark Roberts
> Photography and writing
> www.robertstech.com
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 4:11:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mark Roberts" <mark@robertstech.com> wrote in message
news:D dj2sh02ob@news2.newsguy.com...
> I'm doing an installation in a school: Permanently-mounted microphone in
> band and choir rehearsal rooms. They could probably make do with mono
> but I thought it might be best to go with stereo. You can always convert
> stereo to mono if need be, but going the other way doesn't work :-)
> I'd prefer to keep things simple and use a single stereo mic rather than
> two separate mics. Probably need to keep price under $500.00 each and,
> because they'll be ceiling-mounted, no on-board batteries.
> Recommendations most appreciated.
>
> --
> Mark Roberts
> Photography and writing
> www.robertstech.com

Hi,

I know it's not a stereo mic but I think a pair of the Avenson Audio STO-2
omni mics would be a great choice. Only $499 for a matched pair and you
could always use them for recording band concerts too.

http://www.mercenary.com/sto2microphone.html

--
John L Rice
Drummer@ImJohn.com
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 10:29:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mark Roberts <mark@robertstech.com> wrote:
>I'm doing an installation in a school: Permanently-mounted microphone in
>band and choir rehearsal rooms. They could probably make do with mono
>but I thought it might be best to go with stereo. You can always convert
>stereo to mono if need be, but going the other way doesn't work :-)
>I'd prefer to keep things simple and use a single stereo mic rather than
>two separate mics. Probably need to keep price under $500.00 each and,
>because they'll be ceiling-mounted, no on-board batteries.
>Recommendations most appreciated.

Crown SASS-P. It's not a great mike, but it's better at dealing with
bad room acoustics and improper setup than just about anything else
out there. If you're looking for something you can drop into a single
position and go, it would be my definite choice.

A little bit beyond your price range, but worth it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 10:29:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Crown SASS-P. It's not a great mike, but it's better at dealing with
> bad room acoustics and improper setup than just about anything else
> out there. If you're looking for something you can drop into a single
> position and go, it would be my definite choice.

> A little bit beyond your price range, but worth it.

I agree completely. The problem is, what's going to happen as you gradually
realize that separate true-condensor mics for the same or less money would
have given you better overall sound? As Mr. Dorsey says, it's an issue of
convenience versus sound quality.
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 10:42:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <MrednSq57vU_5mPfRVn-ug@comcast.com> gizzledgeezer@comcast.net writes:

> > Crown SASS-P.

> I agree completely. The problem is, what's going to happen as you gradually
> realize that separate true-condensor mics for the same or less money would
> have given you better overall sound?

Given the situation (a school band rehearsal room), it's unlikely that
they will ever discover that a pair of individual condenser mics will
give them a better recording for less money. Sometimes people just
don't want to be bothered, they just want to get a recording.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 11:21:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike,

My assumption that the LSD2 had an external pattern box was merely
that, an assumption. If it doesn't, that kind of stinks...but for
around 4 to 5 grand less than the next dual large di stereo mic
alternative (c426 or sm69...) I probably wouldn't complain if it
sounded pretty good. You're noting that it really isn't complete poop
("sounds just fine") has only served to heighten my curiosity about
this mic.

Thanks,
Chris
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 12:58:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

William Sommerwerck <gizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Crown SASS-P. It's not a great mike, but it's better at dealing with
>> bad room acoustics and improper setup than just about anything else
>> out there. If you're looking for something you can drop into a single
>> position and go, it would be my definite choice.
>
>> A little bit beyond your price range, but worth it.
>
>I agree completely. The problem is, what's going to happen as you gradually
>realize that separate true-condensor mics for the same or less money would
>have given you better overall sound? As Mr. Dorsey says, it's an issue of
>convenience versus sound quality.

I think this is an application where convenience trumps sound quality
by a long shot. Yes, you could do better with a pair of good conventional
mikes, but you'd have to have a good room and set them up properly. For
rehearsal archiving, neither one of those things will ever happen.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 8:20:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote:

>In article <MrednSq57vU_5mPfRVn-ug@comcast.com> gizzledgeezer@comcast.net writes:
>
>> > Crown SASS-P.
>
>> I agree completely. The problem is, what's going to happen as you gradually
>> realize that separate true-condensor mics for the same or less money would
>> have given you better overall sound?
>
>Given the situation (a school band rehearsal room), it's unlikely that
>they will ever discover that a pair of individual condenser mics will
>give them a better recording for less money. Sometimes people just
>don't want to be bothered, they just want to get a recording.

Yes indeed; I had to talk them into *stereo* fer cryin' out loud ;-)
Really, everything recommended so far has been a little beyond their
needs. I do appreciate the information, though. Thanks for everyone's
input.


--
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 10:43:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mark Roberts wrote:

> mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote:
>
> >In article <MrednSq57vU_5mPfRVn-ug@comcast.com> gizzledgeezer@comcast.net writes:
> >
> >> > Crown SASS-P.
> >
> >> I agree completely. The problem is, what's going to happen as you gradually
> >> realize that separate true-condensor mics for the same or less money would
> >> have given you better overall sound?
> >
> >Given the situation (a school band rehearsal room), it's unlikely that
> >they will ever discover that a pair of individual condenser mics will
> >give them a better recording for less money. Sometimes people just
> >don't want to be bothered, they just want to get a recording.
>
> Yes indeed; I had to talk them into *stereo* fer cryin' out loud ;-)
> Really, everything recommended so far has been a little beyond their
> needs. I do appreciate the information, though. Thanks for everyone's
> input.

Nobody mentioned the Audio Technica AT825 yet ...
It should be adequate for the purpose.

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/f43693e797...

rd
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 12:35:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"RD Jones" <annonn@juno.com> wrote:

>Nobody mentioned the Audio Technica AT825 yet ...
>It should be adequate for the purpose.
>
>http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/f43693e797...

That's the one I've been looking at. Haven't found anything less
expansive yet, so that may be the way to go.

--
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 8:49:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Geoff Wood wrote:

> "Mark Roberts" <mark@robertstech.com> wrote in message
> news:D dq1c71lj@news3.newsguy.com...
> > "RD Jones" <annonn@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Nobody mentioned the Audio Technica AT825 yet ...
> >>It should be adequate for the purpose.
> >>
> >>http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/f43693e797...
> >
> > That's the one I've been looking at. Haven't found anything less
> > expansive yet, so that may be the way to go.
>
> Is 'less expensive' the main criteria ? Have you checked out the RODE NT4

Here's a list, with some prices, of many of those recommended so far:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=bread...

The NT4 and AT825 are not that far apart in price.
Looks like the NT4 is the best deal of the 'non-electret'
models.

rd
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 12:25:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mark Roberts" <mark@robertstech.com> wrote in message
news:D dq1c71lj@news3.newsguy.com...
> "RD Jones" <annonn@juno.com> wrote:
>
>>Nobody mentioned the Audio Technica AT825 yet ...
>>It should be adequate for the purpose.
>>
>>http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/f43693e797...
>
> That's the one I've been looking at. Haven't found anything less
> expansive yet, so that may be the way to go.

Is 'less expensive' the main criteria ? Have you checked out the RODE NT4
?

geoff
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 11:49:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mark Roberts <mark@robertstech.com> wrote:

>I'm doing an installation in a school: Permanently-mounted microphone in
>band and choir rehearsal rooms. ,,,

Get a pair of good sounding omnis and mount them on a Schneider Disk.
Set up correctly that'll give you better sound than the SASS or any of
the single-point stereo mics. You'll get very strong location cues from
the Disk and the flat/extended frequency response from the omnis.


--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
moskowit@core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 12:17:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'm going to second that recommendation for the SASS-P.
This sounds like the perfect application for it.
Was in a band that was recorded with one one two
occasions, and each time was very pleasantly surprised
by the quality.

Scott
!