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How to set levels BETWEEN songs on album?

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Anonymous
August 15, 2005 7:47:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi,

I've just finished a demo for friends which will not be getting sent
away for mastering. I'm happy with mixes (done on Event 20/20bas) and
have checked them without problems on a range of different playback
systems.

Now I just need to set the relative levels between the songs, but after
trying this for a while I realise that I don't really have a good
system for this. So how would you approach it?

This demo has a lot of variety and dynamic range (folk rock band
recorded live with nice stereo mic then vox overdubs) and I know where
the absolute loudest points should be.

How would a mastering engineer go about this? VU metering? Visual
inspection of the whole album? Just using those golden ears?

I'm sure that given a fortnight of listening and tweaking I could get
it right, just wondering if there are any standard approaches to make
it easier?

More about : set levels songs album

Anonymous
August 15, 2005 8:02:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> VU metering?

Not exactly the right tool for the job.

> Visual inspection of the whole album?

Maybe if you were hanging paintings in your living room...but this is
music. It's not a visual art for most.

> Just using those golden ears?

Yessirree. That's how we M.E.'s do it.

Cheers,
Chris
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 8:20:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks Chris,

So, keeping in mind that there's a lot of dynamic range on this album,
how would you set the levels relatively quickly? Would you switch
between songs listening to the louder sections, or listen to a section
you choose as 'representative' of the general level of the song, or
listen to consecutive songs and try to get the transition between them
right, or what? Or use your (precisely calibrated) monitor level
controller to set a comfortable volume for each song and note the
setting? I'm assuming that it's not commercially viable to just sit
back and listen to the whole album play through 5 or 10 times to set
the levels.
Related resources
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 8:45:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Or, to put it another way, if you wouldn't mind sharing your secrets,
could you outline your approach to setting levels between songs as a
mastering engineer?
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 8:45:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'd pay careful attention to the beginning and endings of the
tunes...in other words, how cohesive they are when one track moves on
to the next. You can adjust gap spacing to help somewhat if one track
absolutely needs to be a bit louder than the one next to it at those
start and end points b/w the two. Just play through these gaps and
make sure it flows nicely.
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 8:57:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks Chris. That's something specific I can listen for. Cheers.
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 2:31:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, I guess I hoped for a few tips and techniques, along the lines of
Chris's suggestion, which was a good one. C'mon, those who have done a
lot of mastering must have their own approach to this....?
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 5:10:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 8/15/05 6:47 PM, in article
1124146064.738875.187990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "TwentyOneHourSunday"
<michaelsloggett@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've just finished a demo for friends which will not be getting sent
> away for mastering. I'm happy with mixes (done on Event 20/20bas) and
> have checked them without problems on a range of different playback
> systems.
>
> Now I just need to set the relative levels between the songs, but after
> trying this for a while I realise that I don't really have a good
> system for this. So how would you approach it?

The way anybody should... By ear.


> How would a mastering engineer go about this? VU metering? Visual
> inspection of the whole album? Just using those golden ears?

Thre.. You see! you -did- know the answer!


>
> I'm sure that given a fortnight of listening and tweaking I could get
> it right, just wondering if there are any standard approaches to make
> it easier?

More people involved?
Still the final choices have to be made by somebody...>
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 9:56:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"TwentyOneHourSunday" <michaelsloggett@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:1124170310.224115.137870@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Well, I guess I hoped for a few tips and techniques, along the lines of
> Chris's suggestion, which was a good one. C'mon, those who have done a
> lot of mastering must have their own approach to this....?

I pick one track to be the "index track", one to which the others will be
compared. Then I work on getting the aural impression of each other track to
be the same (in loudness) as that of the reference track. I make a note of
the level change necessary to do that, in preview, but don't do it in real
life. I also make a note of the highest level on each track. When all that's
done, then I figure out which track will have the loudest peak level on the
disc and set the level to whatever margin I set. (1dB if my client is
accepting, 0.2dB if not). Then I adjust all the tracks' levels per the
chart. (All compression and EQ has already been done.) I save the results
with new file names. Then I go back and listen to them all against the
reference track again, to make sure they really do match. That includes,
especially, listening to transitions between tracks as well as loudest spots
on the tracks.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 10:15:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Just a quick PHILOSOPHICAL note about mastering:

As an ME, you are the interface between the mix engineer and the
listener. I think that this requires that you listen to the
presentation as a whole. Yes, you want a sensible transition from one
song to another. You also might want to tweak the EQ a bit to get the
songs resting in the same general context.

You might want to peak limit a bit, then listen to (and adjust for) the
loudest passages. THEN listen to each transition. If it's wrong, tweak
as necessary.

For some reason, listeners tend to prefer a continuity of sound. Many
greatest hits albums have an unevenness because the songs were recorded
at different times, different venues. I would use the minimum amount of
tweaking necessary to maintain some degree of continuity.

To analogize to video, you are the analog to a "film(video) colorist".
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 10:43:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"TwentyOneHourSunday" <michaelsloggett@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:1124146064.738875.187990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I've just finished a demo for friends which will not be getting sent
> away for mastering. I'm happy with mixes (done on Event 20/20bas) and
> have checked them without problems on a range of different playback
> systems.
>
> Now I just need to set the relative levels between the songs, but after
> trying this for a while I realise that I don't really have a good
> system for this. So how would you approach it?
>
> This demo has a lot of variety and dynamic range (folk rock band
> recorded live with nice stereo mic then vox overdubs) and I know where
> the absolute loudest points should be.
>
> How would a mastering engineer go about this? VU metering? Visual
> inspection of the whole album? Just using those golden ears?
>
> I'm sure that given a fortnight of listening and tweaking I could get
> it right, just wondering if there are any standard approaches to make
> it easier?
>

I pick a song that's an "average" representation of level for the album then
balance everything against it. It's useless to compare track 1 to 2, then 2
to 3, then 3 to 4, etc. (this is an old rule in carpentry too) because if
you're off even by 1dB by the time you get to the last song you're off by
10dB (if there are 10 songs on the album) which is ALOT. I also like to burn
a CD and just put it in the player with "shuffle" on (on that single CD).
Then just let it play in the background. After awhile you'll hear about all
transitions and any that "jump out" or are too soft should be pretty
obvious. This is also a good way to come up with some neat sequencing if
you're stuck. Not a lot of people listen to CDs from top to bottom nowadays
but I still consider good sequencing and proper gap times essential to a
great listening experience. Also, listen at different volume levels. If you
listen where the "average" track is just nice and audible any tracks that
are too soft should be pretty oblivious by you having trouble hearing them.
Listening from another room can also help sometimes.
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 11:42:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1124148015.037080.177510@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> michaelsloggett@optusnet.com.au writes:

> So, keeping in mind that there's a lot of dynamic range on this album,
> how would you set the levels relatively quickly?

What's your hurry? Not getting paid for this job and don't love it
enough to give it the time it deserves? (I've been there myself)

I assume you've chosen the order of songs based on something sensible,
like one at least somewhat relates to the one before it, or you build
to a climax and then come down, or something.

Start off with the loudest song (not necessarily the one with the most
filled-in area on the waveform display, but the one that sounds
loudest) to calibrate your ears, and then start from the beginning,
setting the level of the second song so that it transitions nicely
from the first. Then go to the third song and set that one . . .

If you find that you have to turn the loudest one up to the point
where it would clip, then back down everything else.

Then listen to the whole thing start to finish. No cheating. See if
anything is jarring, or if you feel like reaching for the volume
control to hear something quiet. Maybe you'll want to compress some of
the quieter material so you can raise its level a bit. You just have
to play with it.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 11:46:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"TwentyOneHourSunday" <michaelsloggett@optusnet.com.au>
wrote in message
news:1124146064.738875.187990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> Hi,
>
> I've just finished a demo for friends which will not be
> getting sent away for mastering. I'm happy with mixes
> (done on Event 20/20bas) and have checked them without
> problems on a range of different playback systems.
>
> Now I just need to set the relative levels between the
> songs, but after trying this for a while I realise that I
> don't really have a good system for this. So how would
> you approach it?
>
> This demo has a lot of variety and dynamic range (folk
> rock band recorded live with nice stereo mic then vox
> overdubs) and I know where the absolute loudest points
> should be.
>
> How would a mastering engineer go about this? VU
> metering? Visual inspection of the whole album? Just
> using those golden ears?

Depends how much they vary to begin with and why.

If they have a lot of random variations, then sometimes
normalizing the whole lot can be a fair starting point. But,
its only a starting point.

If your goal is art, the right loudness for a song is a very
psychological thing.

Perceived loudness is based on a number of things including
the over-all timbre of the music and the dynamics.

If you want to do things as right as you can, keep track of
your loudness adjustments to each track. When you have what
you want, sum them up and apply them at one time to a clean
copy to minimize the scrambing of the bits.
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 12:52:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1124170310.224115.137870@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> michaelsloggett@optusnet.com.au writes:

> Well, I guess I hoped for a few tips and techniques, along the lines of
> Chris's suggestion, which was a good one. C'mon, those who have done a
> lot of mastering must have their own approach to this....?

There really is only one, and that is that the transitions have to
sound the way you want them to sound. You don't necessarily want a
smooth (volume) transition from song to song - sometimes you want to
wake up the listener, and sometimes you want to bring him down from an
exciting song. Sometimes a song starts off quietly and builds up. This
means that the introduction with just a solo acoustic guitar might be
20 dB below the peak level of the loudest part.

It doesn't mean that you need to turn the beginning of the song up 20
dB and then compress the loud parts, though often this is done (in
moderation, hopefully) so that the listener doesn't miss the beginning
if he's listening in a less than quiet environment.

You have to think of the whole project as a performance and pace it,
volume-wise, as such. Sometimes, if the songs are well chosen and well
performed (or well fixed in the mix) all you'll want to do is
normalize each song so that the peak level comes close to full scale
and let the performance dynamics take care of the transitions between
songs. But other times, you have to fool around to fool the listener.

There's no program or meter that will do a lot for you here, though
being aware of peak and average levels throughout the song will give
you a sense of the perceived loudness of the whole song or its major
parts if it's not consistent (intentionally).


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 1:42:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

It may be a challenge to set levels on all tracks together. I'd go after
each tune individually. Sometimes when a song has great dynamics, segment
level adjusting is needed, say on a real sparse intro which will likely get
buried on radio. That part can be brought up and crossfaded into the
next(louder) section. You still have the timbre and feel of the intro, and,
somehow, the dynamics are preserved. My mastering engineer often cuts a tune
into 30-40 slices. You'd never know it of course, but he gets great results.
FTR, I'm NOT a M.E. but just speaking of what I know thus far.

hope this helps

Rick Hollet
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:6L2dna6O77iAT5zeRVn-gg@comcast.com...
> "TwentyOneHourSunday" <michaelsloggett@optusnet.com.au>
> wrote in message
> news:1124146064.738875.187990@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've just finished a demo for friends which will not be
> > getting sent away for mastering. I'm happy with mixes
> > (done on Event 20/20bas) and have checked them without
> > problems on a range of different playback systems.
> >
> > Now I just need to set the relative levels between the
> > songs, but after trying this for a while I realise that I
> > don't really have a good system for this. So how would
> > you approach it?
> >
> > This demo has a lot of variety and dynamic range (folk
> > rock band recorded live with nice stereo mic then vox
> > overdubs) and I know where the absolute loudest points
> > should be.
> >
> > How would a mastering engineer go about this? VU
> > metering? Visual inspection of the whole album? Just
> > using those golden ears?
>
> Depends how much they vary to begin with and why.
>
> If they have a lot of random variations, then sometimes
> normalizing the whole lot can be a fair starting point. But,
> its only a starting point.
>
> If your goal is art, the right loudness for a song is a very
> psychological thing.
>
> Perceived loudness is based on a number of things including
> the over-all timbre of the music and the dynamics.
>
> If you want to do things as right as you can, keep track of
> your loudness adjustments to each track. When you have what
> you want, sum them up and apply them at one time to a clean
> copy to minimize the scrambing of the bits.
>
>
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 8:27:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks everyone for the time and thought you have put into these
replies. With what i've picked up and the 10 or so times I've listened
to the album in the last 24 hours, I now feel like i know exactly what
I need to do volume-wise.

I won't be following it, but the comment about segment level adjusting
is interesting. Makes sense of the experience I've had of perceiving an
album as quite dynamically interesting (say Radiohead OK computer) and
then on REALLY listening on monitors finding that it's all 'maximised'
and never varies more than 4 or 5dB from peak levels.

What I will definitely put into practise is the idea of noting peak
levels and required changes and then processing the whole bunch only
once.

As for this: "What's your hurry? Not getting paid for this job and
don't love it enough to give it the time it deserves? (I've been there
myself)"

No, not exactly, although I have been there too. In this case I just
felt like I was going around in circles initially and, being a person
who must have a system for everything, needed some greater wisdom.

Now off to follow my multi-step system for a great double shot of
espresso.

Thanks all!
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 6:23:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 15 Aug 2005 15:47:44 -0700, "TwentyOneHourSunday"
<michaelsloggett@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I've just finished a demo for friends which will not be getting sent
>away for mastering. I'm happy with mixes (done on Event 20/20bas) and
>have checked them without problems on a range of different playback
>systems.
>
>Now I just need to set the relative levels between the songs, but after
>trying this for a while I realise that I don't really have a good
>system for this. So how would you approach it?
>
>This demo has a lot of variety and dynamic range (folk rock band
>recorded live with nice stereo mic then vox overdubs) and I know where
>the absolute loudest points should be.
>
>How would a mastering engineer go about this? VU metering? Visual
>inspection of the whole album? Just using those golden ears?
>
>I'm sure that given a fortnight of listening and tweaking I could get
>it right, just wondering if there are any standard approaches to make
>it easier?


Here's my rule of thumb (your thumb may differ) -

I make sure that the vocal is the same level from song to song. So
just jump to the middle of each song and set your overall song level
so that when you jump to a different song - the vocal appears to be
coming from the same person at the same distance.

It's a really good start, and a quick way to create some continuity.

After that, ruin the overall album however you want with
ultramaxisquishing, but you at least have a logical starting point.





Kurt Riemann
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 8:23:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

> < ...snip.. >
>
> I assume you've chosen the order of songs based on something sensible,
> like one at least somewhat relates to the one before it, or you build
> to a climax and then come down, or something.

[OT ?] In following this thread I've started wondering what percentage
of consumers listen to the CD as a whole any more? How much have
ipods and mp3's impacted listening habits ...and has this affected
mastering strategies.

> < ..snip.. >
>
> Then listen to the whole thing start to finish. No cheating. See if
> anything is jarring, or if you feel like reaching for the volume
> control to hear something quiet. Maybe you'll want to compress some of
> the quieter material so you can raise its level a bit. You just have
> to play with it.
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)

What Mike said! I believe this is a good thing to practice.
I tend to do it every time I make a fun compilation for my
car or house music in my venue. I'll also review and
sometimes even re "master" some of the mixes. It's also
a good exercise to intermix your work with commercial
tracks in those compilations then review them as Mike
suggests above.

Later...

Ron Capik
--
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 9:53:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Rick Hollett" <r.hollett@nl.rogers.com> wrote in message...

> My mastering engineer often cuts a tune into 30-40 slices.


I've sat in on dozens... maybe as many as 60, mastering sessions and
I have never seen a mastering engineer divide a single song into parts.
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 10:33:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Have you heard of sonic solutions?
"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
news:uQKMe.7398$Al5.3140@trnddc04...
>
> "Rick Hollett" <r.hollett@nl.rogers.com> wrote in message...
>
> > My mastering engineer often cuts a tune into 30-40 slices.
>
>
> I've sat in on dozens... maybe as many as 60, mastering sessions and
> I have never seen a mastering engineer divide a single song into parts.
>
>
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 11:20:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

TwentyOneHourSunday <michaelsloggett@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>Or, to put it another way, if you wouldn't mind sharing your secrets,
>could you outline your approach to setting levels between songs as a
>mastering engineer?

Listen to the songs in one order. Give them each a number from one to
ten. Listen to them in a different order. Give them the same numbering.

First, look to see if the numbers you get are the same. They might not be.
Average the two for each song and see if you still agree with them.

Now, go through with that, flipping from one song to the next, and see
if you can get the softest one and the loudest one to be the right level.
Now, making them the _same_ level might not be right... you might want to
quieter song to actually be a lower level on the CD.

Listen through. Then try rearranging them and listen through again.

After you have done this a couple times for practice, you'll find you
can listen to the song and know how many dB to raise or lower it. The
whole point is to practice doing it in different orders until you get
a feel for it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 1:55:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Rick Hollett" <r.hollett@nl.rogers.com> wrote in message...

> Have you heard of sonic solutions?

It's the primary tool of my current mastering guy. If I could afford
it, I would have it myself just for the "no-noise" feature.

What does that have to do with cutting a single song into 30 or
40 pieces before it can be mastered, or the mastering of each
of those pieces?

I'm not saying it can't be or isn't done, I just don't get the purpose.

DM
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 12:40:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
news:hnOMe.6605$H_4.2365@trnddc07

<What does that have to do with cutting a single song into 30 or 40 pieces
before it can be mastered, or the mastering of each
of those pieces?

I'm not saying it can't be or isn't done, I just don't get the purpose.>

It negates the need for unnatural amounts of compression which retains the
dynamics of the track.

Rick Hollett

"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
news:hnOMe.6605$H_4.2365@trnddc07...
>
> "Rick Hollett" <r.hollett@nl.rogers.com> wrote in message...
>
>> Have you heard of sonic solutions?
>
> It's the primary tool of my current mastering guy. If I could afford
> it, I would have it myself just for the "no-noise" feature.
>
> What does that have to do with cutting a single song into 30 or
> 40 pieces before it can be mastered, or the mastering of each
> of those pieces?
>
> I'm not saying it can't be or isn't done, I just don't get the purpose.
>
> DM
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 1:25:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, it seems that Mr. TwentyOneHourSunday would like to become his
own mastering engineer without a clue about how to go about it. My
advise, go to a mastering engineer. The people who listen to your
demo?EP?CD? don't care that you did it yourself, They just care if it
sounds good. All the money that you saved won't equal the bad
impression listeners will have from a poorly mastered disc. And I don't
say that just because I started mastering records in 1971. It holds in
other fields as well. Screw up the finishing step and all that goes
before is for naught.
Phil Brown
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 1:38:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

There's no program or meter that will do a lot for you here, though
being aware of peak and average levels throughout the song will give
you a sense of the perceived loudness of the whole song or its major
parts if it's not consistent (intentionally). "

There is Jam, the other half of toast.... I think it makes the job a
lot easier because you can see levels of all songs at the same time
(well kinda)

Another thing I like to do is see if the songs will work in the order
of ascending keys. If you can raise the pitch of each song as you go it
sort of moves a little nicer. It doesn't always work out that way but
it helps if you think along those lines.

Another thing I like to do is watch the meter of each song. In a 10
song mix it is more important then a 4 song demo but its nice to slow
in the middle and then max it near the end... or, climb a bit near the
end then slow again for a gentle retard.

Danny Taddei
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 8:58:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"philcycles" <philcycles@aol.com> wrote in message ...

> Well, it seems that Mr. TwentyOneHourSunday would like to become his
> own mastering engineer without a clue about how to go about it.


It's all in the espresso... ;-)
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 11:30:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny Taddei <palmtreedreamer@aol.com> wrote:

> There is Jam, the other half of toast.... I think it makes the job a
> lot easier because you can see levels of all songs at the same time
> (well kinda)

I've got Jam. Please explain.

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se
aim: larsfarm@mac.com
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 11:47:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jam, if you have not yet used it, is a program to do exactly what you
want to do.
First, you open the program (well you need to buy it if you don't have
it but duh) and you drag all your aif. files into it. Each track can
then be set to cross fade with the ones next to it, or you could move
them around or whatever. there is a tape player looking control at the
top to roll tape and you just listen back like anything else. If you
need to cross fade or add space between songs or add or subtract gain
or normalize, you can do it all right there. No big deal at all - its a
no brainer, no manual needed type program.

What you can not do is look ahead at a wave form to see it coming. You
need to listen to the transitions one at a time and see how you like
them and then listen all the way through. No points for cheating:-)

I am using Jam 6 on Mac. I don't know what you have so I thought I'd
mention it. I don't really remember a change when 5 was upgraded so
maybe they are all about the same.

Hope this helps

Danny Taddei
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 3:16:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Oh- OK, well I qualified that in the first post with "well kinda" :~)

Here is what I do. FIrst, I normalized all the tracks so I know they
are all with their peaks at 0. Then I listen back and if something is
too loud, I use the gain reduction to drop it back down to fit. The
gain and/or normalizing at that point is really nothing more then what
you would do with any other volume control so there's nothing added or
lost other then volume. You can not see wave forms but you can know
that all tracks are starting at the max that they could be and if they
are too loud in the mix, you can just drop them down and you can see
the reduction value. YOu can see all the songs and their relative value
and hear what that does...... That is the part I meant when I wrote
see.. Maybe I was a little to liberal with definitions.

I don't know if my way is good or bad but is has worked fine for me so
I keep on doing it.
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 10:00:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny Taddei <palmtreedreamer@aol.com> wrote:

> Hope this helps

My question wasn't clear. I tried to ask about "see levels" in ...

Danny Taddei <palmtreedreamer@aol.com> wrote:

> [...] because you can see levels of all songs at the same time
> (well kinda)

/L


--
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lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se
aim: larsfarm@mac.com
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 12:49:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

When I mix, I try to get it right from the start. When I normalize I
usually find I might add 1 or and extreme case, 2 dB. The only reason I
do that is to get an absolute starting point. Normalizing does nothing
more then raise the volume, right? So from there I bring what need to
come down, down.
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 2:53:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Not entirely convinced that "normalizing" is doing your audio any good.
Maybe it depends on how much distortion is already there, and what it
induces may not be noticable. I hate it myself. I'm sure there's plenty who
will agree on this one.

Rick Hollett
"Danny Taddei" <palmtreedreamer@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1124432190.896927.50550@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Oh- OK, well I qualified that in the first post with "well kinda" :~)
>
> Here is what I do. FIrst, I normalized all the tracks so I know they
> are all with their peaks at 0. Then I listen back and if something is
> too loud, I use the gain reduction to drop it back down to fit. The
> gain and/or normalizing at that point is really nothing more then what
> you would do with any other volume control so there's nothing added or
> lost other then volume. You can not see wave forms but you can know
> that all tracks are starting at the max that they could be and if they
> are too loud in the mix, you can just drop them down and you can see
> the reduction value. YOu can see all the songs and their relative value
> and hear what that does...... That is the part I meant when I wrote
> see.. Maybe I was a little to liberal with definitions.
>
> I don't know if my way is good or bad but is has worked fine for me so
> I keep on doing it.
>
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 7:35:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <nMudnZ2dnZ3iyZTbnZ2dndtAmN6dnZ2dRVn-yJ2dnZ0@rogers.com> r.hollett@nl.rogers.com writes:

> Not entirely convinced that "normalizing" is doing your audio any good.
> Maybe it depends on how much distortion is already there, and what it
> induces may not be noticable.

Normalizing doesn't induce distortion, but if something is distorted,
it might be more noticable if it's louder - but then distortion makes
most things SOUND louder.

Normalizing does nothing more than turn up the volume. If the volume
has to be turned up too far, you'll notice an increase in background
noise, maybe hiss, maybe hum, maybe ambient noise that was recorded.
But in general, while normalizing might not be what you really want to
do, it's never actually harmful to the audio (but it may be harmful to
the PROJECT).

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 7:58:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

See! I new I wasn't as think as I dumb I was :-)
!