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ADAT HD24 and length of remote cable(s)

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Anonymous
August 16, 2005 9:56:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

How far from the HD24 recorder can one get a/the remote? Can it be as
far as 30 or 40 feet?

--
ha
Anonymous
August 16, 2005 9:56:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

hank alrich wrote:
> How far from the HD24 recorder can one get a/the remote? Can it be as
> far as 30 or 40 feet?

Amazingly enough, I've never even used the remote that came with my HD24.
It's still in its plastic wrapper. I do concert recordings on
location, and frankly for my purposes I don't want a lot of convenience
when it comes to pushing buttons. I want to get the recording started,
and then to do absolutely nothing that might prematurely interrupt it.
So the fewer buttons around, the better.

But the remote uses a straight "mono" quarter-inch plug, and I happened
to have a 25 foot headphone extension cord here that Harvey sent me a
couple of months ago, so I just now hooked them together and tried it.
It worked fine. The remote itself has about eight feet of cable, so that
gets into the length range that you mentioned.

And since that seemed to work OK, I added another 25 foot extension cord.
It _still_ seems to work fine at 50+ feet. I tried a dozen or so
button presses, though, so I wouldn't call it extensive testing.

There was a discussion on this on the HD24 Yahoo group about two years
ago. Here's what one person reported:

> What kind of cable is the LRC cable? Shielded? Twisted pair? Would
> a presumably unshielded headphone extension work?

"IIRC, I think it's single conductor with a wrapped copper ground. In a
pinch, a headphone extension works just dandy. Used them multiple times,
too. Remember, the LRC is "only" a switched resistor network. It's not
going to be very picky. Just watch your cable capacitance and impedance."

Another poster mentioned having trouble when he tried to use 100 feet of
extension cord. He said it worked, but it was erratic.

Keep in mind that I'm talking about the basic little remote that comes
with the unit. The ADAT BRC (a separate purchase) is a completely
different beast, and it connects in a completely different manner. So my
report has no bearing on that.
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 1:22:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jim Gilliland wrote:

> hank alrich wrote:
> > How far from the HD24 recorder can one get a/the remote? Can it be as
> > far as 30 or 40 feet?

> Amazingly enough, I've never even used the remote that came with my HD24.
> It's still in its plastic wrapper. I do concert recordings on
> location, and frankly for my purposes I don't want a lot of convenience
> when it comes to pushing buttons. I want to get the recording started,
> and then to do absolutely nothing that might prematurely interrupt it.
> So the fewer buttons around, the better.

Right, but if I'm tracking myself in the studio room, I don't want the
recorder right there. I want it ensconced in the control room where I
don't have to hear it, and neither do the mics.

> But the remote uses a straight "mono" quarter-inch plug, and I happened
> to have a 25 foot headphone extension cord here that Harvey sent me a
> couple of months ago, so I just now hooked them together and tried it.
> It worked fine. The remote itself has about eight feet of cable, so that
> gets into the length range that you mentioned.

> And since that seemed to work OK, I added another 25 foot extension cord.
> It _still_ seems to work fine at 50+ feet. I tried a dozen or so
> button presses, though, so I wouldn't call it extensive testing.

Cool, Jim, thanks.

> There was a discussion on this on the HD24 Yahoo group about two years
> ago. Here's what one person reported:

> > What kind of cable is the LRC cable? Shielded? Twisted pair? Would
> > a presumably unshielded headphone extension work?

> "IIRC, I think it's single conductor with a wrapped copper ground. In a
> pinch, a headphone extension works just dandy. Used them multiple times,
> too. Remember, the LRC is "only" a switched resistor network. It's not
> going to be very picky. Just watch your cable capacitance and impedance."

> Another poster mentioned having trouble when he tried to use 100 feet of
> extension cord. He said it worked, but it was erratic.

> Keep in mind that I'm talking about the basic little remote that comes
> with the unit. The ADAT BRC (a separate purchase) is a completely
> different beast, and it connects in a completely different manner. So my
> report has no bearing on that.

Yeah, the "LRC". I understand that one doesn't offer control of channel
arming/disarming, and that the BRC, which seems no longer in production,
offers some control, but not complete. This could be a deal breaker.
Whatever I get next will be a dedicated recorder, no computer involved,
and must be fully controllaable remotely.

An I missing something? (Be kind... <g>)

--
ha
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Anonymous
August 17, 2005 1:36:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

hank alrich wrote:
>
>>Keep in mind that I'm talking about the basic little remote that comes
>>with the unit. The ADAT BRC (a separate purchase) is a completely
>>different beast, and it connects in a completely different manner. So my
>>report has no bearing on that.
>
> Yeah, the "LRC". I understand that one doesn't offer control of channel
> arming/disarming, and that the BRC, which seems no longer in production,
> offers some control, but not complete. This could be a deal breaker.
> Whatever I get next will be a dedicated recorder, no computer involved,
> and must be fully controllaable remotely.
>
> An I missing something? (Be kind... <g>)

Probably. The BRC does have some issues, and the MRC (aka "the
Director") that Alesis promised us never actually went into production.
(Though Alesis still says that it will, no one really believes it
anymore). So it really is a problem. Too bad, really, because the HD24
is a great little deck, and even more so in the 96K version. As I said,
for my purposes, I don't miss the remote at all, but for many users it is
a real problem.

The HD24 group on Yahoo has a discussion going on right now about how to
deal with the need to remotely control the HD24. The group is trying to
figure out how to use a third party product to drive the HD24.
Unfortunately, though, the solution they are considering won't meet your
needs - it requires a computer to be involved.

You might want to join us and see what you can get from the discussion.

Also, a lot of people use the BRC quite successfully. Since I don't use
it myself, I can't comment on its quirks and limitations. Some of the
other group members should be able to give you some first hand info.

At one point, I tinkered with using my Spirit 328 mixer as a MIDI device
to control the HD24. It worked OK, including arming and disarming
tracks. But I didn't really need the capability, so I never really did
anything with it. For some reason, the HD24 doesn't seem to handle MIDI
commands for fast forward and rewind, though everything else worked OK.
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 6:32:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jim Gilliland wrote:

> At one point, I tinkered with using my Spirit 328 mixer as a MIDI device
> to control the HD24. It worked OK, including arming and disarming
> tracks. But I didn't really need the capability, so I never really did
> anything with it. For some reason, the HD24 doesn't seem to handle MIDI
> commands for fast forward and rewind, though everything else worked OK.

Hmmm, wonder if something from JL Cooper would work. They made/make a
bunch of controllers. Thanks again, Jim. I don't need to hurry, but I'd
like something dedicated that's cheaper than the Radar and also more
confindence inspiring than the Fostex.

--
ha
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 12:08:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1h1e4tj.xz7scqgasq68N%walkinay@thegrid.net> walkinay@thegrid.net writes:

> Whatever I get next will be a dedicated recorder, no computer involved,
> and must be fully controllaable remotely.

> An I missing something? (Be kind... <g>)

Yeah, the most solid one around, a Mackie HDR24/96 or MDR24/96. You
haven't got hung up on the 96 kHz bandwagon have you?




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 5:09:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:36:00 -0400, Jim Gilliland
<usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote:

>
>
> The HD24 group on Yahoo has a discussion going on right now about how to
> deal with the need to remotely control the HD24. The group is trying to
> figure out how to use a third party product to drive the HD24.
> Unfortunately, though, the solution they are considering won't meet your
> needs - it requires a computer to be involved.
>
> You might want to join us and see what you can get from the discussion.
>
> Also, a lot of people use the BRC quite successfully. Since I don't use
> it myself, I can't comment on its quirks and limitations. Some of the
> other group members should be able to give you some first hand info.
>
> At one point, I tinkered with using my Spirit 328 mixer as a MIDI device
> to control the HD24. It worked OK, including arming and disarming
> tracks. But I didn't really need the capability, so I never really did
> anything with it. For some reason, the HD24 doesn't seem to handle MIDI
> commands for fast forward and rewind, though everything else worked OK.

Fast Forward and Rewind are alien concepts to a random access hard disc
recorder. They just want you to tell them where to go and they'll go there
virtually instantaneously. That's why it is probably more sensible to tell
them to go to a locate point rather than just to tell them to ff/rewind.

If the HD24 accepts the same commands over its 9 pin connector as the old
ADAT's did then it shouldn't be too difficult to create a suitable remote
control. There was a piece of software that I found called ADAT CRC which
came with diagrams to show you how to hook up a computer to an ADAT 9 pin
connector. As I understand it, the ADAT 9 pin protocol is very close (or
maybe identical) to MIDI Machine Control so there must be alternative
controllers around that could be modified.

Cheers.

James.
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 2:37:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <opsvnip7qmdjgvgv@news.nerc.ac.uk> James.Perrett@noc.soton.ac.uk writes:

> Fast Forward and Rewind are alien concepts to a random access hard disc
> recorder. They just want you to tell them where to go and they'll go there
> virtually instantaneously.

I use those functions on my Mackie recorder. Sometimes you just want
to back up a little and listen. Maybe eventually you'll develop the
habit of setting a locate point every time you stop the transport so
you can go back to the last place you started from, but I don't have
that down yet. The Mackie was designed to work as much as reasonable
like a tape deck and the "wind" speed is slow enough so you can stop
it where you want it. If you want to wind faster, just push the button
another time. It has a four-speed transmission.

I think it's silly for the Alesis recorder to not use the MMC FF and
REW commands. There are buttons on it for those functions, aren't
there?

Someone on the Mackie forum was asking about ways to use the MMC
commands on his d8b or dxb console to control an HD24. I suggested
that perhaps the JLCooper Datasync 2 would do it since it translates
MMC to the Alesis sync interface format. He e-mailed JLCooper, who
replied that they didn't know if it would work but suspected that it
wouldn't. He was going to get one on demo and give it a try.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 12:05:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

65 feet with no problem. I have 2 HD24s with a BRC at my console. But
for recording tracks in another room, I run a 1/4" cable from the HD24
to an XLR patchbay. From there I run a 50' snake to another room and
hook up the LRC with an XLR adapter. It works great. However, I would
love to have this "Director" that Alesis supposedly has designed.

John
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 1:21:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:
>
> I use those functions on my Mackie recorder. Sometimes you just want
> to back up a little and listen. Maybe eventually you'll develop the
> habit of setting a locate point every time you stop the transport so
> you can go back to the last place you started from, but I don't have
> that down yet. The Mackie was designed to work as much as reasonable
> like a tape deck and the "wind" speed is slow enough so you can stop
> it where you want it. If you want to wind faster, just push the button
> another time. It has a four-speed transmission.

They work a little differently on the Alesis machine, but deliver the
same functionality. When you simply press the FF or REW button once, it
skips forward or back exactly 5 seconds. When you hold down the button,
it starts out moving slowly through the current recording, then gradually
speeds up as you continue to hold the button down. When you let it go,
it stops.

If you do the same thing while the recording is playing, the machine
scrubs slowly through the recording, then returns to normal play when you
release it.

There may be other features hidden in there as well, but I wouldn't know.
I almost never use the deck for playback, only for recording. Once the
tracks have been captured, they get moved to my DAW for mixdown.

> I think it's silly for the Alesis recorder to not use the MMC FF and
> REW commands. There are buttons on it for those functions, aren't
> there?

It is silly. The FF and REW buttons on the front panel and on the little
remote work just fine, so why shouldn't the MCC controls work the same way?
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 6:10:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 17 Aug 2005 22:37:50 -0400, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:


>
> Someone on the Mackie forum was asking about ways to use the MMC
> commands on his d8b or dxb console to control an HD24. I suggested
> that perhaps the JLCooper Datasync 2 would do it since it translates
> MMC to the Alesis sync interface format. He e-mailed JLCooper, who
> replied that they didn't know if it would work but suspected that it
> wouldn't. He was going to get one on demo and give it a try.
>

I think we may have had a similar conversation before Mike. I use the MOTU
Digital Timepiece to translate MMC to my ADAT's and I'm sure that it would
also control the HD24. The big problem is that the DTP costs almost as
much as the HD24. Maybe one of the cheaper MOTU interfaces like the Midi
Timepiece would be sufficient here.

Looking at the JLCooper site, I see no reason why the Datasync 2 wouldn't
work either.

Cheers.

James.
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 12:54:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <opsvpf7nwjdjgvgv@news.nerc.ac.uk> James.Perrett@noc.soton.ac.uk writes:

> Looking at the JLCooper site, I see no reason why the Datasync 2 wouldn't
> work either.

It seems like that to me since a master connects to slaves through
that 9-pin sync connector, and when you fast-wind the master, the
slaves also fast-wind. But maybe it doesn't use the FF/REW MMC
commands, but rather just tells it to chase the time code of the
master machine. If that's how it works when connecting ADATs, the MMC
FF/REW commands still wouldn't work.

Somebody's just gotta try it. We can go on guessing forever, but
without sufficient documentation, there's nothing like a lab
experiment to prove or disprove a supposition.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
!