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singing with monitors on?

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Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 18, 2005 2:31:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I just had a question about this. I've seen footage of singers in the
control room tracking while the monitors are on rather loudly. They
seem to stand in a specific spot when they sing> I've tried tracking
vocals this way and it's never worked out either massive feedback or
too much bleed. I never fully understood how it works. any explanation
would be appreciated...thanks brian

More about : singing monitors

Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 18, 2005 7:34:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"thadjanus" <vivacaramel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124386270.646252.229320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com

> I just had a question about this. I've seen footage of
> singers in the control room tracking while the monitors
> are on rather loudly. They seem to stand in a specific
> spot when they sing> I've tried tracking vocals this way
> and it's never worked out either massive feedback or too
> much bleed. I never fully understood how it works. any
> explanation would be appreciated...

We do something like this all the time in live sound.

There are several ways this can work:

Put the mic much closer to the singer's mouth than the
monitor.

Use a cardioid mic, and point its null right down the
figurative throat of the monitor.

Control the feed to the monitor so that whatever bleeds into
the mic isn't too objectionable and doesn't contribute too
much to feedback. IOW have a separate monitor for each
singer and a separately-mixed aux send for each monitor.

As the other poster pointed out, the singer shouldn't need
to much feed of his own voice if any, because that's being
conducted to his ears by his head bones.
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 18, 2005 9:45:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I've seen it done with auratones on music stands at ear level,
equidistant from the microphone, one speaker out of polarity...I'm
guessing it works best with the speakers pointed at the nulls of a
bidirectional mic, and it's crucial that the mix being sent to the
monitors is mono. I would use a pre-dynamics processing send for an
added safety factor.
Never been brave enuff to try it .
I have tracked a vocal in a control room with the big monitors on
pretty loud...I had the vocalist direct his rather strong output into a
popular dymamic cardioid stage mic, and everyone seemed pleased with
the result. Because the singer was loud, I didn't need to open up the
pre-amp all that much, and this is what kept the bleed down. Another
thing that I recall from this particular session was that the vocalist
preferred not hearing himself in the monitors, so I guess that's why I
didn't get any feedback.
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Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 18, 2005 10:49:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

kooz wrote:
> Another thing that I recall from this particular session was that the vocalist
> preferred not hearing himself in the monitors, so I guess that's why I
> didn't get any feedback.

I remember working with a finicky singer who couldn't use headphones.
Okay... wouldn't use headphones. Then I remembered reading an
interview with Jack Douglas about when he recorded John Lennon and
Lennon didn't like using phones. It seems to me that Douglas described
how he set up the monitors for Lennon in that article. I just tried to
Google it and couldn't find it. But, I'm pretty sure it was in Mix
magazine, probably back in oh...1887 or so! :) 

Okay, so I'm an old fart who's just trying to help here. However, I
did set it up as described and it worked, with a few compromises. But,
we did get a usable track and that's what counted. HTH.
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 18, 2005 11:26:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:31:10 -0700, thadjanus wrote:

> I just had a question about this. I've seen footage of singers in the
> control room tracking while the monitors are on rather loudly. They
> seem to stand in a specific spot when they sing> I've tried tracking
> vocals this way and it's never worked out either massive feedback or
> too much bleed. I never fully understood how it works. any explanation
> would be appreciated...thanks brian

It's the old 'put one monitor out of phase, mono the mix, and place the
mic at the point where it nulls the most' trick.

I bet they don't have the monitors all that loud either. You should not
need to put the mic in the monitors, the singer can hear themselves
acoustically.

Try a 58 or something if the sound is acceptable too.
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 19, 2005 3:00:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"thadjanus" <vivacaramel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124386270.646252.229320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I just had a question about this. I've seen footage of singers in the
> control room tracking while the monitors are on rather loudly. They
> seem to stand in a specific spot when they sing> I've tried tracking
> vocals this way and it's never worked out either massive feedback or
> too much bleed. I never fully understood how it works. any explanation
> would be appreciated...thanks brian

Quite often, depending on the nature of the clip, they will be lip-synching.
Music videos have so much more cred when you can see lots of gear.

geoff
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 19, 2005 3:00:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"thadjanus" wrote ...
>I just had a question about this. I've seen footage of singers in the
> control room tracking while the monitors are on rather loudly. They
> seem to stand in a specific spot when they sing> I've tried tracking
> vocals this way and it's never worked out either massive feedback or
> too much bleed. I never fully understood how it works. any explanation
> would be appreciated...thanks brian

We've heard of switching one of the pair of monitor speakers
to opposite polarity and carefully placing the mic at the "null"
between the speakers. Not sure I believe this is very effective
in a small space?

Or more likely it was the footage you saw was lip-synced.
!