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Will bascially any ribbon mic record trumpet decently? How..

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August 18, 2005 11:37:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What's a relatively inexpensive mic that will do a decent job of recording
trumpet? I know about the Royer R-121 and Coles 4038, but they're a bit
pricey.

Yes, dynamic mics will work but I'm trying to record some trills to match
the character of some single note pro samples and the sound of a dynamic mic
is totally wrong. If find I can achieve it up to a point with my bargain
basement Marshall MXL6000 condensor, which actually does very well at
relatively softer levels but if I put any kind of gusto behind the horn then
it distorts and breaks up pretty badly, gets this buzzy edge to it. I assume
it's due to some kind of distortion happening in a diaphragm that's just not
up to it. It doesn't seem to matter how far from the mic I get, and I have
to be relatively close to the mic (approx 4 ft) to match the character of
these samples I'm referring to.

I've always heard that people often use ribbon mics for brass. Should
essentially any ribbon mic be up to the task or not necessarily?

I see a number of ribbon mics on ebay for under $400, Beyer Dynamics, Nady
RSM-2, Electro Harmonix among others. Any of these any good - i.e. good
enough for my purposes which means significantly better performance than
that MXL 6000? Essentially, it just has to have the right kind of character
and be able to take the sound energy of a trumpet without breaking up. I've
never used a ribbon so I'm not versed in whether there's significant
difference in sound among ribbon mics.

Or, alternately any other relatively "bargain" mic you know of that will
yield decent results with the right kind of character? I had a CAD E-100
condensor for a while and it did okay but added a "funny", sort of stuffy
coloration to the sound.

Thanks for all shared wisdom.
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 11:37:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I don't know about the nady ribbon, but scott dorsey just reviewed one
for recording so he might be able to answer that. I hate to suggest
it, but depending on your mic pre, you might try a 57 for the trumpet,
otherwise something like an re20 might be a little better.

Nate
August 18, 2005 11:37:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ribbons are used on some of the best horn recordings, but it ain't just the
mic. The space its recorded in also makes a big difference (as well as the
player and rest of the equipment chain of course). If you record in a
reasonably sized space that isn't too dead and point the horn off axis to
the mic, then you should get a good sound from any reasonable mic. I
usually play into an AKG C451 at home. Not especially well suited to
trumpet specifically, but I never overload it, even when playing loud.

Experiment with the position of the mic. I found a big difference in timbre
when I recorded my trumpet and even more so with flugel.




Rich


--
www.richiebee.ca
www.funkydory.ca

"Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2s5Ne.9376$Je.1728@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> What's a relatively inexpensive mic that will do a decent job of recording
> trumpet? I know about the Royer R-121 and Coles 4038, but they're a bit
> pricey.
>
> Yes, dynamic mics will work but I'm trying to record some trills to match
> the character of some single note pro samples and the sound of a dynamic
> mic
> is totally wrong. If find I can achieve it up to a point with my bargain
> basement Marshall MXL6000 condensor, which actually does very well at
> relatively softer levels but if I put any kind of gusto behind the horn
> then
> it distorts and breaks up pretty badly, gets this buzzy edge to it. I
> assume
> it's due to some kind of distortion happening in a diaphragm that's just
> not
> up to it. It doesn't seem to matter how far from the mic I get, and I
> have
> to be relatively close to the mic (approx 4 ft) to match the character of
> these samples I'm referring to.
>
> I've always heard that people often use ribbon mics for brass. Should
> essentially any ribbon mic be up to the task or not necessarily?
>
> I see a number of ribbon mics on ebay for under $400, Beyer Dynamics, Nady
> RSM-2, Electro Harmonix among others. Any of these any good - i.e. good
> enough for my purposes which means significantly better performance than
> that MXL 6000? Essentially, it just has to have the right kind of
> character
> and be able to take the sound energy of a trumpet without breaking up.
> I've
> never used a ribbon so I'm not versed in whether there's significant
> difference in sound among ribbon mics.
>
> Or, alternately any other relatively "bargain" mic you know of that will
> yield decent results with the right kind of character? I had a CAD E-100
> condensor for a while and it did okay but added a "funny", sort of stuffy
> coloration to the sound.
>
> Thanks for all shared wisdom.
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 12:33:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2s5Ne.9376$Je.1728@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net
> What's a relatively inexpensive mic that will do a decent
> job of recording trumpet? I know about the Royer R-121
> and Coles 4038, but they're a bit pricey.
>
> Yes, dynamic mics will work but I'm trying to record some
> trills to match the character of some single note pro
> samples and the sound of a dynamic mic is totally wrong.
> If find I can achieve it up to a point with my bargain
> basement Marshall MXL6000 condensor, which actually does
> very well at relatively softer levels but if I put any
> kind of gusto behind the horn then it distorts and breaks
> up pretty badly, gets this buzzy edge to it.

Looking at the odds that the mic is distorting, and the odds
that the mic pre is distorting, I'd put my money on the mic
preamp distorting. What happens if you put an attenuator on
the mic input?
August 19, 2005 1:33:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Nate Najar" <nate@natenajar.com> wrote in message
news:1124396954.287432.214480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> I don't know about the nady ribbon, but scott dorsey just reviewed one
> for recording so he might be able to answer that. I hate to suggest
> it, but depending on your mic pre, you might try a 57 for the trumpet,
> otherwise something like an re20 might be a little better.

I've tried SM-57/58 and while they will record the trumpet, the sound isn't
right for what I need. It has to have that more "overall encompassing"
sound. That's my own terminology but it's my impression that the LDC
captures more of the whole sound of something than a dynamic.

I don't know how the pro samples I'm trying to match (the Soundclips
collection by Data Becker) were recorded but I assume they were recorded
using some kind condensor, ribbon or tube mic, probably in Europe. I know
about how mics sound to be pretty sure they weren't recorded with a dynamic.
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 1:47:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Doc wrote:
> What's a relatively inexpensive mic that will do a decent job of recording
> trumpet?

Perhaps Audio-technica ATM125 or Sennhieser MD421. They're both often
recommended for loud instruments like brass.

I'd certainly try them myself because I have both :-)

--
Anahata
anahata@treewind.co.uk -+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 1:47:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:47:44 +0100, anahata wrote:

> Doc wrote:
>> What's a relatively inexpensive mic that will do a decent job of
>> recording trumpet?
>
> Perhaps Audio-technica ATM125 or Sennhieser MD421. They're both often
> recommended for loud instruments like brass.

Or EV ND/468
August 19, 2005 5:20:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote in message
news:qOydnYTR6J5FtZjeRVn-pQ@comcast.com...

> Looking at the odds that the mic is distorting, and the odds
> that the mic pre is distorting, I'd put my money on the mic
> preamp distorting. What happens if you put an attenuator on
> the mic input?

Well, the same preamp is fine when playing blastissimo using a dynamic. I
could be wrong, but I would think that means it's the mic. I don't have to
push the pre-amp anywhere near redline for it to happen.
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 6:21:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have used a Beyer M160, a less expensive, and relatively rugged (for
a ribbon) mic on trumpet. It works pretty well, giveng the sound one
is trying to achieve using ribbons.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:37:34 GMT, "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>What's a relatively inexpensive mic that will do a decent job of recording
>trumpet? I know about the Royer R-121 and Coles 4038, but they're a bit
>pricey.
> . . .
>I see a number of ribbon mics on ebay for under $400, Beyer Dynamics, Nady
>RSM-2, Electro Harmonix among others. Any of these any good - i.e. good
>enough for my purposes which means significantly better performance than
>that MXL 6000?
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 9:42:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p taNe.8816$ns.7920@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote in message
> news:qOydnYTR6J5FtZjeRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
>
>> Looking at the odds that the mic is distorting, and the
>> odds that the mic pre is distorting, I'd put my money on
>> the mic preamp distorting. What happens if you put an
>> attenuator on the mic input?
>
> Well, the same preamp is fine when playing blastissimo
> using a dynamic.

Haven't you noticed that your typical condenser mic puts out
10-20 dB more output for a given sound?

I just ran into this last night for the 456th time when I
swapped a Audix OM-5 for a condenser that was too sensitive
to the wind. I had to push the trim way up.

The worst example of this I know of is the Shure SM 57
versus a KSM-44. The number 24 db comes to mind.

>I could be wrong, but I would think that means it's the
>mic.

Not at all.

> I don't have to push the pre-amp anywhere near redline
> for it to happen.

What does "redline" mean as applied to a mic preamp?

You do know that the clipping indicators on some mic preamps
are faulty and fail to indicate some forms of internal
clipping, right?
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 9:46:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Willie K. Yee, MD" <wkyee@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:430541ca.179949328@nntp.bestweb.net...
> I have used a Beyer M160, a less expensive, and relatively rugged (for
> a ribbon) mic on trumpet. It works pretty well, giveng the sound one
> is trying to achieve using ribbons.

And I've used an M260, less expensive still, with good results.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 11:28:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 17:33:48 -0400, Doc wrote
(in article <097Ne.8783$ns.2098@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>):

>
> "Nate Najar" <nate@natenajar.com> wrote in message
> news:1124396954.287432.214480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> I don't know about the nady ribbon, but scott dorsey just reviewed one
>> for recording so he might be able to answer that. I hate to suggest
>> it, but depending on your mic pre, you might try a 57 for the trumpet,
>> otherwise something like an re20 might be a little better.
>
> I've tried SM-57/58 and while they will record the trumpet, the sound isn't
> right for what I need. It has to have that more "overall encompassing"
> sound. That's my own terminology but it's my impression that the LDC
> captures more of the whole sound of something than a dynamic.
>
> I don't know how the pro samples I'm trying to match (the Soundclips
> collection by Data Becker) were recorded but I assume they were recorded
> using some kind condensor, ribbon or tube mic, probably in Europe. I know
> about how mics sound to be pretty sure they weren't recorded with a dynamic.
>
>

All encompassing is just too unspecific. Can you direct us to some particular
examples?

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 1:57:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Doc <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>What's a relatively inexpensive mic that will do a decent job of recording
>trumpet? I know about the Royer R-121 and Coles 4038, but they're a bit
>pricey.
>
>Yes, dynamic mics will work but I'm trying to record some trills to match
>the character of some single note pro samples and the sound of a dynamic mic
>is totally wrong.

A lot of those pro samples are probably done with an RE-20. I'd recommend
one. But for that matter, try the 635A. What you consider "the character"
of a dynamic mike might well be the presence peak.

>I see a number of ribbon mics on ebay for under $400, Beyer Dynamics, Nady
>RSM-2, Electro Harmonix among others. Any of these any good - i.e. good
>enough for my purposes which means significantly better performance than
>that MXL 6000? Essentially, it just has to have the right kind of character
>and be able to take the sound energy of a trumpet without breaking up. I've
>never used a ribbon so I'm not versed in whether there's significant
>difference in sound among ribbon mics.

I reviewed the Nady in a recent issue of Recording, but to be honest
you might want to try the Beyer M-260. But I would not give up on dynamics
yet.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 2:01:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Doc wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote:
>
>> Looking at the odds that the mic is distorting, and the odds that
>> the mic pre is distorting, I'd put my money on the mic preamp
>> distorting. What happens if you put an attenuator on the mic input?
>>
>
> Well, the same preamp is fine when playing blastissimo using a
> dynamic. I could be wrong, but I would think that means it's the
> mic. I don't have to push the pre-amp anywhere near redline for it
> to happen.


This depends on the preamp; if there's an amplifying stage before the
gain control, a condensor, with its higher output, could distort the
initial stage even with the gain set to zero. This sometimes happens
with the Nagra preamps I use, and like Arny said, an attenuator on the
mic input solves it.

That said, I bought a Rode NT1 from a trumpet player once because it
distorted. He got an AKG C414 and the distortion was gone, so it might
well be your mic..

Hans
--




This is a non-profit organization;
we didn't plan it that way, but it is

=====================================


(remove uppercase trap, and double the number to reply)
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 2:01:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Hans van Dongen" <hanf@xs2all.SPAMDEX.nl> wrote in message
news:430591f4$0$11076$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl
> Doc wrote:
>> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Looking at the odds that the mic is distorting, and the
>>> odds that the mic pre is distorting, I'd put my money
>>> on the mic preamp distorting. What happens if you put
>>> an attenuator on the mic input?
>>
>> Well, the same preamp is fine when playing blastissimo
>> using a dynamic. I could be wrong, but I would think
>> that means it's the mic. I don't have to push the
>> pre-amp anywhere near redline for it to happen.
>
>
> This depends on the preamp; if there's an amplifying
> stage before the gain control, a condensor, with its
> higher output, could distort the initial stage even with
> the gain set to zero. This sometimes happens with the
> Nagra preamps I use, and like Arny said, an attenuator on
> the mic input solves it.
> That said, I bought a Rode NT1 from a trumpet player once
> because it distorted. He got an AKG C414 and the
> distortion was gone, so it might well be your mic..

The not-so-hidden agenda would be the built-in attenuators
and overload indicator on the C414. Some models of the NT1
lack both.

I'm not saying that a trumpet player can't possibly overload
a given mic, but attenuators can be cheap problem solvers.
August 19, 2005 6:37:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:37:34 GMT, "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>What's a relatively inexpensive mic that will do a decent job of recording
>trumpet? I know about the Royer R-121 and Coles 4038, but they're a bit
>pricey.
>
I allways thought a 77DX was a bargin
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 7:13:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

danger <fishfood@bway.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:37:34 GMT, "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>What's a relatively inexpensive mic that will do a decent job of recording
>>trumpet? I know about the Royer R-121 and Coles 4038, but they're a bit
>>pricey.
>>
>I allways thought a 77DX was a bargin

When they were $65 from Harris-Allied's used division, they were.
Not any more. I am seeing people paying really crazy amounts of money
for the things... you can get a brand new Coles 4040 for less.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 12:45:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:20:47 GMT, "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com>
wrote:

>Well, the same preamp is fine when playing blastissimo using a dynamic. I
>could be wrong, but I would think that means it's the mic. I don't have to
>push the pre-amp anywhere near redline for it to happen.

It could mean that some mics produce a hotter signal than others.

How close is the mic to the trumpet? A classic position is just
off-centre, 4 feet in front of the bell. You need a good-sounding
room of course.
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 1:12:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 8/19/05 2:37 PM, in article 6m9cg11mbqkqg951slp763o50eunt7bhm1@4ax.com,
"danger" <fishfood@bway.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 19:37:34 GMT, "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> What's a relatively inexpensive mic that will do a decent job of recording
>> trumpet? I know about the Royer R-121 and Coles 4038, but they're a bit
>> pricey.
>>
> I allways thought a 77DX was a bargin

When.. In 1972?
Actually I think the 77's have a boycott against me, I;ve never heard one I
LIKE... (one was actually pretty good in the wide-open pattern but other
than that it was just awful) 44's yes, Jr Velo's yes, 639's, Sk46, yeah
verily even th eRESLO's I have that are so maligned in public... Yes.
The 77 is SUCH a lovely thing, I really want to hear one that's working
right.
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 2:00:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

SSJVCmag <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote:
>
>When.. In 1972?
>Actually I think the 77's have a boycott against me, I;ve never heard one I
>LIKE... (one was actually pretty good in the wide-open pattern but other
>than that it was just awful) 44's yes, Jr Velo's yes, 639's, Sk46, yeah
>verily even th eRESLO's I have that are so maligned in public... Yes.
>The 77 is SUCH a lovely thing, I really want to hear one that's working
>right.

So, Johnny, get me a gig up there and I'll bring a couple. They are
definitely cleaner in the upper midrange than the 44. The trick is
never to use the 77 in anything but figure-8.

I got a trick for the 74B that you'll like also. Lundahl transformer.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 6:53:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I was fortunate to recently assist Lynn Fuston in a ribbon mic shootout
for upcoming an article and one of his assesment CD's. Lot's of
dramatically different sounds from the different ribbons. Some would
lend themselves to trumpet better than others I think. I bet he could
give you a worthwhile opinion or two. You can reach him at
3daudioinc.com.
August 20, 2005 1:41:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Ty Ford" <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:58OdnZ2dnZ2bbBS5nZ2dneZfmN6dnZ2dRVn-052dnZ0@comcast.com...

> All encompassing is just too unspecific. Can you direct us to some
particular
> examples?

You know the sound you get when you use a dynamic mic for a vocal? You
basically have to stand right in front of it and it gives a very
characteristic, choked off, "buzzy" kind of sound. Sure, it's loud but with
no highs to speak of and a sort of dead overall presence. Ditto using one
for an instrument.

Compared to singing or playing an instrument (say a fiddle or recorder) into
a LDC. You just hear more of whatever is being aimed at the mic. Dynamics
just sound different.
August 20, 2005 1:43:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote in message
news:IJidnSZ0Io74NJjeRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message

> You do know that the clipping indicators on some mic preamps
> are faulty and fail to indicate some forms of internal
> clipping, right?

There's a lot I don't know. If I want to find an attenuator, where should I
look and what should I look for?
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 1:43:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4XCNe.9034$ns.2301@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote in message
> news:IJidnSZ0Io74NJjeRVn-sw@comcast.com...
>> "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
>
>> You do know that the clipping indicators on some mic
>> preamps are faulty and fail to indicate some forms of
>> internal clipping, right?
>
> There's a lot I don't know. If I want to find an
> attenuator, where should I look and what should I look
> for?

Pick one:

http://www.macmidimusic.com/prod.itml/icOid/10400

http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=5333...

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX20/
August 20, 2005 1:45:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"SSJVCmag" <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote in message
news:BF2AF6DA.F190%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com...

> If you don't have the tone, it don't matter
> But since fact, clearly presented like that, NEVER goes anywhere with
> questions like this...

You'll have to take my word for it that my tone is decent.
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 3:44:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Doc <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote in message
>news:IJidnSZ0Io74NJjeRVn-sw@comcast.com...
>> "Doc" <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote in message
>
>> You do know that the clipping indicators on some mic preamps
>> are faulty and fail to indicate some forms of internal
>> clipping, right?
>
>There's a lot I don't know. If I want to find an attenuator, where should I
>look and what should I look for?

Go to your local Shure dealer and get the adjustable Shure pad. Better
yet, get a dozen of them because sooner or later you'll need them.
It's got a three position switch for 15, 20, or 25 dB attenuation.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 20, 2005 3:45:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Doc <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>"SSJVCmag" <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote in message
>
>> If you don't have the tone, it don't matter
>> But since fact, clearly presented like that, NEVER goes anywhere with
>> questions like this...
>
>You'll have to take my word for it that my tone is decent.

How do you know? You're on the wrong side of the horn to be able to
tell. I have no idea what a piano sounds like when I'm playing it,
because I'm not in the audience, I'm up at the piano.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 12:48:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote:

> [...]but attenuators can be cheap problem solvers.

Will phantom power work with in-line attenuators?

L


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se
aim: larsfarm@mac.com
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 2:02:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Lars Farm <see.bottom.of.page.for.lars@farm.se> wrote:
>Arny Krueger <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote:
>
>> [...]but attenuators can be cheap problem solvers.
>
>Will phantom power work with in-line attenuators?

Yes. There is a discussion of why in the FAQ, but basically the series
resistance is much lower than 6.81k so the resistance of the attenuator
is swamped by the source resistance anyway.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
August 21, 2005 5:17:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D e7j7l$835$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Doc <docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote:
> >"SSJVCmag" <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote in message
> >
> >> If you don't have the tone, it don't matter
> >> But since fact, clearly presented like that, NEVER goes anywhere with
> >> questions like this...
> >
> >You'll have to take my word for it that my tone is decent.
>
> How do you know? You're on the wrong side of the horn to be able to
> tell. I have no idea what a piano sounds like when I'm playing it,
> because I'm not in the audience, I'm up at the piano.

That's what walls are for. ;-)
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 6:50:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Doc wrote:

> "Ty Ford" <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:58OdnZ2dnZ2bbBS5nZ2dneZfmN6dnZ2dRVn-052dnZ0@comcast.com...
>
>
>>All encompassing is just too unspecific. Can you direct us to some
>
> particular
>
>>examples?
>
>
> You know the sound you get when you use a dynamic mic for a vocal? You
> basically have to stand right in front of it and it gives a very
> characteristic, choked off, "buzzy" kind of sound. Sure, it's loud but with
> no highs to speak of and a sort of dead overall presence. Ditto using one
> for an instrument.
>
> Compared to singing or playing an instrument (say a fiddle or recorder) into
> a LDC. You just hear more of whatever is being aimed at the mic. Dynamics
> just sound different.
>
>

Sometimes you don't want what the dynamics reject, tho'.

--
Les Cargill
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 10:05:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Lars Farm" <see.bottom.of.page.for.lars@farm.se> wrote in
message
news:1h1m794.1psbctepdkr68N%see.bottom.of.page.for.lars@farm.se
> Arny Krueger <arnyk@pop3free.com> wrote:
>
>> [...]but attenuators can be cheap problem solvers.
>
> Will phantom power work with in-line attenuators?

Yes, and it #@!! better, given that the most common
circumstance for using attenuators is condenser mics that of
course need phantom power.
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 11:50:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I like ribbons on trumpet for sure, particularly 77s (as long as
they're in good shape, which all too many aren't), 44s and Coles 4038s.
I've used the little Royer (I want to say 111 - is that right?), but
not on trumpet yet. I'm betting I'd like it.

In general I'd say the following about trumpets: they are often very
loud, so you don't need (or usually want) a particularly high-output
mic. They're also often very bright, especially when they're very loud,
so high frequency headroom is at a major premium.

Someone mentioned trying a Rode NT-1, which I have a pair of, and find
them rather bright and VERY hot. I haven't tried one on trumpet but I'm
not surprised to hear it wasn't very successful. They're quite nice on
acoustic guitar though. For what it's worth, the Sanken CU-41 (which
lists for $2750, and is thus way out of the price range we're talking
about) is a superb choice on trumpet. Very high headroom, especially in
the top end where loud, high trumpets can shred almost any condenser
mic.

Several people mentioned RE20s, which would be a good choice, but on a
tight budget you might try to find a used RE10, which can be had for
$50 or so. I was told long ago that RE10s were actually RE15s that
didn't quite pass EV's inspection standards (I wonder if someone <<ping
Scott Dorsey>> can confirm or refute this). Anyway, the RE15 is no
longer in production, but the RE16 is, which is the same mic with a
built in ball-type pop filter. It lists for about $350, so it gives you
an idea of its intended market position (they also used to make the
RE11, which was the pop filter version of the RE10). In my experience
the RE10 sounds pretty much indistinguishable from an RE15, and as such
is a great bargain. It won't sound like an RE20, but it's got a lot in
common with it: it's relatively flat across its working range (which is
not as extended as an RE20, which should be ok on trumpet, since ribbon
mic-style bandlimiting usually complements the tone), it's fairly low
output, and can handle quite a bit of level. For what they cost to buy,
I think you'll be very pleased.

They're quite useful on other things as well, like tom toms, guitar
cabinets and snare bottom (it's my first choice there, even out of
pretty big mic lockers). They also have a built-in hi-pass filter
switch, which is a nice bonus. I think of them as being like an SM57
without the HF boost that the latter has (for PA mic-specific proximity
effect reduction). They're nice, neutral, flat, fairly wide range, high
headroom cardioid dynamics that just happen to be dirt cheap. Like 57s,
they're useful in a very wide range of applications. I've had a pair
for many years now, and still use them surprisingly often.

Ted Spencer, NYC
www.tedspencerrecording.com
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 10:50:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 8/20/05 5:41 AM, in article
TUCNe.9033$ns.2573@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net, "Doc"
<docsavage20@xhotmail.com> wrote:

>
> "Ty Ford" <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:58OdnZ2dnZ2bbBS5nZ2dneZfmN6dnZ2dRVn-052dnZ0@comcast.com...
>
>> All encompassing is just too unspecific. Can you direct us to some
> particular
>> examples?
>
> You know the sound you get when you use a dynamic mic for a vocal? You
> basically have to stand right in front of it and it gives a very
> characteristic, choked off, "buzzy" kind of sound.
> Sure, it's loud but with
> no highs to speak of and a sort of dead overall presence. Ditto using one
> for an instrument.

Dang...
You really need to work with dynamics that aren't broke...

>
> Compared to singing or playing an instrument (say a fiddle or recorder) into
> a LDC. You just hear more of whatever is being aimed at the mic. Dynamics
> just sound different.
!