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Yet again, questions about recording schools.

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Anonymous
August 28, 2005 7:59:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

So, I've been looking into some recording schools. I'm just not sure
which would be the best for me, or if it's even really needed.

I'm not a spankin new teenager fresh out of high school, thinking that
I'll go to a "recording school" and I'll instantly get a job working
with superstars.

I've heard about how you'll be a tea boy, the horror stories:
(http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/nightmares/1.as...), etc.

I'm still not deterred.

This is something I've been interested in since I was a wee little kid.
I was probably only 9 or 10 when my father let my make a splice in a
RTR tape, Ohh that was fun! "Those Ampex are so cool looking!". I'd
sneak into the studio and play with faders on the console, but I
remember I wanted to know how that lexicon reverb made my voice sound
like a monster!

Anyway, I'm just trying to get the point across that I'm not just
another kid that thinks it's cool for five minutes, gets to school and
changes his mind, or gives up when he is doing grunt work in a studio
for the next year.


Maybe you're wondering why I haven't taken advantage of my fathers
studio, why didn't I start learning at such a young age? Why do I want
to go to school when I could possibly learn things from him?

That's an entire other subject I'd rather not discuss, we're just now
getting to know each other.

So, I'm wanting to know what schools would be recommended, anywhere in
the world.

Dare I mention Full Sail? SAE Byron Bay?

One of these technical schools, or a university?

Or would I be better off trying to put my past behind me and have my
father help me get on the inside track. Learning what I think, would be
much slower than attending a school. Btw, he's in radio, not so much
the recording business. I know they kinda go hand in hand, but it's not
the same things that I want to do.

I'm looking at schools because I figured that would be the quickest way
to learn the raw tools and basics of equipment.

I'm not sure that I want to limit myself to *record* engineering, but
rather audio engineering in general. I might prefer to do other things
such as mixing movies, sound effects, adr, whatever.


Thanks for the advice.
-Robot
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 9:47:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Do yourself a favor and get a general education first. You have a
whole life ahead of you and most will agree that a high school level
education is
not really enough to sustain you in whatever field you want to enter.
The tech education can wait until you've actually worked some in
studios (on your own stuff, your friend's or as a gofer) and then
you'll know if it is worth the work and the money.

Philip Perkins
Related resources
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 12:23:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1125269945.850909.245470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
zebulon@gmail.com says...
> So, I'm wanting to know what schools would be recommended, anywhere in
> the world.

Berklee College of Music in Boston has an excellent program - but you
must be a musician as well as an engineer (which, frankly, is always a
good trait for a musician).

The engineering faculty is excellent, and has lots of real-world
experience. My Mix 1 teacher had a Grammy for sound on Braveheart. My
Recording 1 teacher did records for Leonard Cohen, Laurie Anderson, and
Cat Stevens, as well as a good deal of classical music. George
Massenburg swings by twice a year to do an all-weekend project with one
of the advanced classes. The dean of music tech has produced REO
Speedwagon and Fleetwood Mac, and played keys on dozens of TV shows and
albums. The faculty in other departments is equally distinguished; one
of the voice teachers is in Manhattan Transfer.

Class sizes are kept small - 8 people in most of the advanced classes -
and you're always working and learning in an actual studio, not a
classroom. We've got SSLs, DM-2000s, and a few older Sony (MCI)
consoles for the beginner classes. The outboard gear is excellent, the
mic selection is quite decent, and there are always plenty of talented
musicians around to do sessions with. Studio time is fairly limited,
but you can often get a few hours of practice time to work on whatever
you like.

One warning: The courseload is heavy and intense. Like most colleges,
students are expected to take 12 to 16 credits. Unlike most, though,
that means 9 to 11 classes! Add in time to practice your instrument,
work on projects, and be involved in ensembles and/or bands, and you
shouldn't expect to have much of a life outside school.

Just like a real engineer.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | I feel calm. I feel ready. I can only
Faster: jay at jay dot fm | conclude that's because I don't have a
http://www.jay.fm | full grasp of the situation. - Mark Adler
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 12:23:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <MPG.1d7c1f8faf5a04c39898fd@news-east.giganews.com>,
Jay Levitt <jay+news@jay.fm> wrote:

> In article <1125269945.850909.245470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> zebulon@gmail.com says...
> > So, I'm wanting to know what schools would be recommended, anywhere in
> > the world.
>
> Berklee College of Music in Boston has an excellent program - but you
> must be a musician as well as an engineer (which, frankly, is always a
> good trait for a musician).
>
> The engineering faculty is excellent, and has lots of real-world
> experience. My Mix 1 teacher had a Grammy for sound on Braveheart. My
> Recording 1 teacher did records for Leonard Cohen, Laurie Anderson, and
> Cat Stevens, as well as a good deal of classical music. George
> Massenburg swings by twice a year to do an all-weekend project with one
> of the advanced classes. The dean of music tech has produced REO
> Speedwagon and Fleetwood Mac, and played keys on dozens of TV shows and
> albums. The faculty in other departments is equally distinguished; one
> of the voice teachers is in Manhattan Transfer.
>
> Class sizes are kept small - 8 people in most of the advanced classes -
> and you're always working and learning in an actual studio, not a
> classroom. We've got SSLs, DM-2000s, and a few older Sony (MCI)
> consoles for the beginner classes. The outboard gear is excellent, the
> mic selection is quite decent, and there are always plenty of talented
> musicians around to do sessions with. Studio time is fairly limited,
> but you can often get a few hours of practice time to work on whatever
> you like.
>
> One warning: The courseload is heavy and intense. Like most colleges,
> students are expected to take 12 to 16 credits. Unlike most, though,
> that means 9 to 11 classes! Add in time to practice your instrument,
> work on projects, and be involved in ensembles and/or bands, and you
> shouldn't expect to have much of a life outside school.
>
> Just like a real engineer.

I'm glad to hear it's come together a bit. I graduated in the first
class of MP&E and it was a mess. I was all set to dig in and I remember
students shouting down the teacher when he wanted to give homework
assignments. It's was pretty disgusting. I would imagine it takes a
while for any department to get it together, but afterwards, I did feel
that I should have gotten a rebate for being a guinea pig. I was also
upset that they wouldn't give me my master reels. When I went back to
check up on them a few years later, not only had they been erased, they
wouldn't even reimburse or replace the physical tape (on which I spent
my own money). I certainly learned a lot more when I got a staff job at
a small studio after graduation.


Perhaps they should let me audit a few classes to make up for being so
disorganized back in the day!

Edwin
--
http://www.theetherealplane.com
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 1:03:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Check out www.recordingarts.com. It's a Canadian facility(southern Ont.) My
engineer raves about the place. Learned an incredible amount in a short
time. If you're in the States, the exchange is still farourable. Good luck
with it

Rick Hollett
"Mr. Robot" <zebulon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125269945.850909.245470@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> So, I've been looking into some recording schools. I'm just not sure
> which would be the best for me, or if it's even really needed.
>
> I'm not a spankin new teenager fresh out of high school, thinking that
> I'll go to a "recording school" and I'll instantly get a job working
> with superstars.
>
> I've heard about how you'll be a tea boy, the horror stories:
> (http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/nightmares/1.as...), etc.
>
> I'm still not deterred.
>
> This is something I've been interested in since I was a wee little kid.
> I was probably only 9 or 10 when my father let my make a splice in a
> RTR tape, Ohh that was fun! "Those Ampex are so cool looking!". I'd
> sneak into the studio and play with faders on the console, but I
> remember I wanted to know how that lexicon reverb made my voice sound
> like a monster!
>
> Anyway, I'm just trying to get the point across that I'm not just
> another kid that thinks it's cool for five minutes, gets to school and
> changes his mind, or gives up when he is doing grunt work in a studio
> for the next year.
>
>
> Maybe you're wondering why I haven't taken advantage of my fathers
> studio, why didn't I start learning at such a young age? Why do I want
> to go to school when I could possibly learn things from him?
>
> That's an entire other subject I'd rather not discuss, we're just now
> getting to know each other.
>
> So, I'm wanting to know what schools would be recommended, anywhere in
> the world.
>
> Dare I mention Full Sail? SAE Byron Bay?
>
> One of these technical schools, or a university?
>
> Or would I be better off trying to put my past behind me and have my
> father help me get on the inside track. Learning what I think, would be
> much slower than attending a school. Btw, he's in radio, not so much
> the recording business. I know they kinda go hand in hand, but it's not
> the same things that I want to do.
>
> I'm looking at schools because I figured that would be the quickest way
> to learn the raw tools and basics of equipment.
>
> I'm not sure that I want to limit myself to *record* engineering, but
> rather audio engineering in general. I might prefer to do other things
> such as mixing movies, sound effects, adr, whatever.
>
>
> Thanks for the advice.
> -Robot
>
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 1:24:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <edwin-BDEBFE.20154728082005@corp.supernews.com>,
edwin@TAKEMEOUTindra.com says...
> I'm glad to hear it's come together a bit. I graduated in the first
> class of MP&E and it was a mess. I was all set to dig in and I remember
> students shouting down the teacher when he wanted to give homework
> assignments.

Hah... wow! That was in the 1970s, right? As I've recently read, they
apparently built all six studios in six months for a million bucks.
(Which explains the acoustics.) I can only imagine the chaos.

Berklee's still not quite an intellectual paradise; you won't find
anyone discussing Chomsky vs. Wittgenstein in the halls, unless they're
really high. And there's still no sense of campus; that probably won't
develop until Berklee buys enough space in the Back Bay so that more
than 25% of students can live on campus.

But it's definitely become more of a college than the passing-through,
feet-in-the-water trade-school it used to be. More people stay through
graduation than before. And many MP&E students stay -past- graduation to
continue taking engineering classes. Most important, it's an accredited
school, so you can get enough general ed to get your Bachelor's while
you learn the trade.

There's a major curriculum review going on right now, and the MP&E
curriculum is being resequenced and revised to acknowledge the
prevalence of digital editing. Tuition includes a standard Powerbook
package, and MP&E students get an additional bundle with ProTools LE, an
Mbox, extra RAM, a Waves bundle, Reason, something from Bias (Peak,
maybe?) and a few other programs. If you record to analog, you still
can't take your master or multitrack with you, but otherwise, you can
always take home your ProTools session - most people track and mix
directly to a Firewire drive in the studio, take it home for further
editing, and maybe pass it through an analog two-track for tone.

There's still a lot of disorganization, but the new president, Roger
Brown, is both a musician and an experienced CEO, and Berklee's starting
to think like a business as well as an "experience". A lot of the old
names - great musicians, perhaps, but not great administrators - have
left in the past year or so. Things are a'changing, and none too soon.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | I feel calm. I feel ready. I can only
Faster: jay at jay dot fm | conclude that's because I don't have a
http://www.jay.fm | full grasp of the situation. - Mark Adler
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 9:03:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, I think the only problem is that I haven't been playing an
instrument all of the time for the past 2 years. I'm getting the
impression that they are focusing more on musicians?
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 11:23:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

An option to consider is the Indiana University School of Music. IU is
one of the best music schools in the country and has a wide array of
tech programs (I studied performance and violin-making). The audio
Bachelors degree has a strong focus on two-track recording of classical
music. The fact that it is in the middle of an incredibly rich music
school and university only adds to the value. Plus, rent and tuition
are *much* lower than in boston.

There is also an associates degree focusing on multitrack recording.
You will have to study music theory to get a degree.


Eric
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 11:36:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>> So, I've been looking into some recording schools.

Most of those recording schools seem to miss the fact that it's such a
MONSTROUSLY huge source, depending on the particular campus, that almost ANY
relatively 'normal approach to recording ANYTHIGN is just useless. You have
to get easily 100meters or better back before anything of that size presents
something close to a a perspective that you can capture without
multi-mic-ing it. Even space omni or Decca approaches need that kind of
distance to take in the whole size and scope of a building that size in a
direct-to-stereo approach.
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 5:09:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <BF38DBE6.FDFE%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com>,
ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com says...
> >> So, I've been looking into some recording schools.
>
> Most of those recording schools seem to miss the fact that it's such a
> MONSTROUSLY huge source, depending on the particular campus, that almost ANY
> relatively 'normal approach to recording ANYTHIGN is just useless.

I think you're trying to play on "recording schools"... but you would
have needed him to say "school recording schools", because they would be
teaching you to record a school. Still, valiant effort.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | I feel calm. I feel ready. I can only
Faster: jay at jay dot fm | conclude that's because I don't have a
http://www.jay.fm | full grasp of the situation. - Mark Adler
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 5:11:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1125360190.901510.324890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
zebulon@gmail.com says...
>
> Well, I think the only problem is that I haven't been playing an
> instrument all of the time for the past 2 years. I'm getting the
> impression that they are focusing more on musicians?

Well, you don't have to be a *serious* musician, focused on performance.
But you do have to be competent enough at some instrument that you don't
mind going to lessons every week for the first four semesters. There
are plenty of people who put away their guitar after that, and plenty
who continue on with a new appreciation.

Also, you'll have to pass four semesters of contemporary (jazz/pop)
music theory, two semesters of traditional theory, and two semesters of
counterpoint.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | I feel calm. I feel ready. I can only
Faster: jay at jay dot fm | conclude that's because I don't have a
http://www.jay.fm | full grasp of the situation. - Mark Adler
August 30, 2005 7:00:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jay Levitt" <jay+news@jay.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d7cd696eeacdeb39898fe@news-east.giganews.com...
> If you record to analog, you still
> can't take your master or multitrack with you,

I'm curious why this is?
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 7:00:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <lZPQe.4485$FW1.1881@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
docsavage20@xhotmail.com says...
> "Jay Levitt" <jay+news@jay.fm> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d7cd696eeacdeb39898fe@news-east.giganews.com...
> > If you record to analog, you still
> > can't take your master or multitrack with you,
>
> I'm curious why this is?

I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. I imagine in the old days it
stemmed from fear of students taking home a master of some future
Steve Vai, waiting 30 years, and selling it for zillions. Conversely,
the school wants to have just such a master so they can do just the
same.

These days, though, with probably most student projects never touching
analog, and therefore never ending up in the tape library, it doesn't
really make a difference.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | I feel calm. I feel ready. I can only
Faster: jay at jay dot fm | conclude that's because I don't have a
http://www.jay.fm | full grasp of the situation. - Mark Adler
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 5:28:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 8/30/05 1:09 AM, in article
MPG.1d7db407cfe0fb439898ff@news-east.giganews.com, "Jay Levitt"
<jay+news@jay.fm> wrote:

> In article <BF38DBE6.FDFE%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com>,
> ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com says...
>>>> So, I've been looking into some recording schools.
>>
>> Most of those recording schools seem to miss the fact that it's such a
>> MONSTROUSLY huge source, depending on the particular campus, that almost ANY
>> relatively 'normal approach to recording ANYTHIGN is just useless.
>
> I think you're trying to play on "recording schools"... but you would
> have needed him to say "school recording schools", because they would be
> teaching you to record a school. Still, valiant effort.

My self-imposed compromise was to change the original wording as absolutely
minimally as possible. It can be read aloud and work fine!
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 5:30:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 8/30/05 1:09 AM, in article
MPG.1d7db407cfe0fb439898ff@news-east.giganews.com, "Jay Levitt"
<jay+news@jay.fm> wrote:

> In article <BF38DBE6.FDFE%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com>,
> ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com says...
>>>> So, I've been looking into some recording schools.
>>
>> Most of those recording schools seem to miss the fact that it's such a
>> MONSTROUSLY huge source, depending on the particular campus, that almost ANY
>> relatively 'normal approach to recording ANYTHIGN is just useless.
>
> I think you're trying to play on "recording schools"... but you would
> have needed him to say "school recording schools", because they would be
> teaching you to record a school. Still, valiant effort.

Intended reading emphasis implies the dropped words:
"Most of those (people who are) recording schools..."
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 5:33:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 8/30/05 1:09 AM, in article
MPG.1d7db407cfe0fb439898ff@news-east.giganews.com, "Jay Levitt"
<jay+news@jay.fm> wrote:

> In article <BF38DBE6.FDFE%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com>,
> ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com says...
>>>> So, I've been looking into some recording schools.
>>
>> Most of those recording schools seem to miss the fact that it's such a
>> MONSTROUSLY huge source, depending on the particular campus, that almost ANY
>> relatively 'normal approach to recording ANYTHIGN is just useless.
>
> I think you're trying to play on "recording schools"... but you would
> have needed him to say "school recording schools", because they would be
> teaching you to record a school. Still, valiant effort.

The pun being based on the switch of 'recording' from adjectival to active
verb which shunts 'schools' from SUBJECT "schools...miss the fact" to
Direct Object "those recording schools"
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 5:33:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 8/30/05 1:09 AM, in article
MPG.1d7db407cfe0fb439898ff@news-east.giganews.com, "Jay Levitt"
<jay+news@jay.fm> wrote:

> In article <BF38DBE6.FDFE%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com>,
> ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com says...
>>>> So, I've been looking into some recording schools.
>>
>> Most of those recording schools seem to miss the fact that it's such a
>> MONSTROUSLY huge source, depending on the particular campus, that almost ANY
>> relatively 'normal approach to recording ANYTHIGN is just useless.
>
> I think you're trying to play on "recording schools"... but you would
> have needed him to say "school recording schools", because they would be
> teaching you to record a school. Still, valiant effort.

And apologies to all my lower and upper school english teachers
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 7:51:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <BF39D7C9.FF15%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com>,
ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com says...
> Intended reading emphasis implies the dropped words:
> "Most of those (people who are) recording schools..."

Ohhhhh! Veeeeery nice. Quite subtle and elegant. Two thumbs up.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | I feel calm. I feel ready. I can only
Faster: jay at jay dot fm | conclude that's because I don't have a
http://www.jay.fm | full grasp of the situation. - Mark Adler
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 7:53:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

....thank you
!