The gear or the ear?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The producers in our publishing company are looking to blame two SL4064
G+ consoles for a sound which they describe as "frequency range
defecient". "The sound is just not a modern sound" "It sounds too
80's"
The opinion is that more and more modern pop hit records, our business,
are mixed inside the box, so we should sell the big desks and get
ICON's or AWS 900's or something like that. I take that idea as a bit
extreme, but understand the artistic point of view from which it came.
I want to quantify the quality before I start working budgets. I know
that there are more "hit songs" mixed on 4000 G+'s than there mixed
within a DAW. So I want to check first

-mastering engineer. I want to have a "modern sound" mastering
engineer re-master something that sounds 80's to the guys, and see if
that makes a difference.
-newer plugins. We have HD systems, but have spent nothing (and NO
cracks in the house!) on plugs for 3 years, and there have been a lot
of new plugs on the market.
-newer bus equipment. The engineers are using 33609's, Quad comp, or
Manley vari-mu on the stereo buss. We have rented the TC System 6000,
but I cannot say that it made a huge difference in the "sound" of our
records.

The engineers have mixed a lot of hits and movie music, for 17 years
now, and listen to all the new music coming out on the market. They
have made attempts to get the tracks "jumping out of the speakers", but
the producers are not satisfied.

I am not interested in any "polish a turd" pop music trashing, but some
other ideas of where to look or listen to punch-up the sound.
puzzled in the shop

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 8/31/05 4:22 PM, in article
1125519736.575196.96040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "miked@wrmusic.com"
<miked@wrmusic.com> wrote:

> The producers in our publishing company are looking to blame two SL4064
> G+ consoles for a sound which they describe as "frequency range
> defecient". "The sound is just not a modern sound" "It sounds too
> 80's"
> The opinion is that more and more modern pop hit records, our business,
> are mixed inside the box, so we should sell the big desks and get
> ICON's or AWS 900's or something like that. I take that idea as a bit
> extreme, but understand the artistic point of view from which it came.
> I want to quantify the quality before I start working budgets. I know
> that there are more "hit songs" mixed on 4000 G+'s than there mixed
> within a DAW. So I want to check first
>
> -mastering engineer. I want to have a "modern sound" mastering
> engineer re-master something that sounds 80's to the guys, and see if
> that makes a difference.
> -newer plugins. We have HD systems, but have spent nothing (and NO
> cracks in the house!) on plugs for 3 years, and there have been a lot
> of new plugs on the market.
> -newer bus equipment. The engineers are using 33609's, Quad comp, or
> Manley vari-mu on the stereo buss. We have rented the TC System 6000,
> but I cannot say that it made a huge difference in the "sound" of our
> records.
>
> The engineers have mixed a lot of hits and movie music, for 17 years
> now, and listen to all the new music coming out on the market. They
> have made attempts to get the tracks "jumping out of the speakers", but
> the producers are not satisfied.
>
> I am not interested in any "polish a turd" pop music trashing, but some
> other ideas of where to look or listen to punch-up the sound.
> puzzled in the shop

ALL of what you diagnose (both gear and human oriented) above seem dead
on...
I bet some serious dinner and/or-scotch-bribes to the best damned clear
experieinced been-there heads you can get attention of is in order (!). You
probably won;t get definative answers in public due to the best folks never
wanting to skewer and sacred cows. A phone call to Jay wouldn;t hurt...
Niether would one to Fletcher at Mercenary...

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<miked@wrmusic.com> wrote in message
news:1125519736.575196.96040@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

> The producers in our publishing company are looking to
> blame two SL4064 G+ consoles for a sound which they
> describe as "frequency range defecient". "The sound is
> just not a modern sound" "It sounds too 80's"

Let's see, the first SSL 4000-series console was announced
in 1977.

Ouch!

> The opinion is that more and more modern pop hit records,
> our business, are mixed inside the box, so we should sell
> the big desks and get ICON's or AWS 900's or something
> like that.

Ironically, an AWS900 seems to be conceptually similar to a
SSL console, just implemented with a different technology.
The AWS900 was introduced in 2004. It seems to be a SSL
analog console with a DAW add-on.

Ouch!

> I take that idea as a bit extreme, but
> understand the artistic point of view from which it came.
> I want to quantify the quality before I start working
> budgets.

Seems like a good idea.

> I know that there are more "hit songs" mixed on
> 4000 G+'s than there mixed within a DAW.

That's like saying that there are more old cars than new
cars. Of course more hit records were recorded since 1977
than since 2004.

> So I want to check first
> -mastering engineer. I want to have a "modern sound"
> mastering engineer re-master something that sounds 80's
> to the guys, and see if that makes a difference.

That might be a worthy experience, but while you're at it
why not do something really modern like have those raw
tracks mixed down on a pure DAW.

> -newer plugins. We have HD systems,

That's just replacing magnetic tape with magnetic disk
drives and analog data storage with digital. Nothing like a
major paradigm shift.

>but have spent
> nothing (and NO cracks in the house!) on plugs for 3
> years, and there have been a lot of new plugs on the
> market. -newer bus equipment. The engineers are using
> 33609's, Quad comp, or Manley vari-mu on the stereo buss.

Kinda old school, eh?

> We have rented the TC System 6000,

More mastering than tracking or mixdown.

> but I cannot say that
> it made a huge difference in the "sound" of our records.

Don't you think that the sound of your records is mostly in
the heads of the people making the records?

> The engineers have mixed a lot of hits and movie music,
> for 17 years now, and listen to all the new music coming
> out on the market. They have made attempts to get the
> tracks "jumping out of the speakers", but the producers
> are not satisfied.

How does your staff feel about truely modern technology, not
updated SSL consoles with DAWs spliced onto their sides?

> I am not interested in any "polish a turd" pop music
> trashing, but some other ideas of where to look or listen
> to punch-up the sound.

How much updating can your group thinking withstand?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1126109224.117735.155340@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<miked@wrmusic.com> wrote:
>
>And what would be your "truely modern technology" studio? In the
>digital world, truely modern is trash in five years. What is your spec
>for today?

I don't know about Arny, but my Ampex sure sounds good.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."