Too much bass through monitors

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi everyone, I'd greatly appreciate your advice on a problem I'm having
with monitors, which seems similar to another thread elsewhere on here
but is a little more specific. I have a pair of Alesis M1 Active Mk II
powered monitors, which I know are pretty cheap but that's all funds
allow at the moment. The problem is that in our control room, they seem
very full and rounded, but when playing back any recordings outside the
control room (car or home stereos) there is little-to-no bass & low
middle in the recordings.

Having read the other thread it seems likely that it's the room causing
it - it is tiny (barely 10' by 5') with the monitors on one of the
longer walls. Unfortunately we're stuck with it for the foreseeable
future, so is there anything I can do with insulation to get a more
accurate eq in the playback of recordings?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks in advance.

Tim

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

i have blocked both ports on both speakers on mine and that has given me a
tighter controlled bass. my mixes sound fine.
I used rolled up thick black socks.
Aaron

"Anahata" <anahata@treewind.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4316f064$0$1280$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> Big Tim wrote:
>> is there anything I can do with insulation to get a more
>> accurate eq in the playback of recordings?
>>
>>
> http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
> Scroll down to FIBERGLASS BASS TRAPS
>
> That's a reasonably cheap solution; buying a proprietary bass trap may do
> better in less space but will cost you more.
>
> Anahata

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks everyone. Having read the section on ethanwiner.com about bass
traps, it sounds like that might not be possible, as we simply don't
have the room to add a cavity. We may be able to add a couple of small
panels to prevent standing waves but it wouldn't be anything
significant in size, so would probably be of limited use. Maybe half a
dozen egg boxes on the back wall

I'll definitely give the socks a try though!

Thanks again.

Tim

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Aaron Smith wrote:
> i have blocked both ports on both speakers on mine and that has given me a
> tighter controlled bass. my mixes sound fine.
> I used rolled up thick black socks.
> Aaron

Eq, whether mechanical as in your example or electrical, may be better
than nothing but it never exactly compensates for room resonances.
Better to (attempt to) fix the room.

--
Anahata
anahata@treewind.co.uk -+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

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"Big Tim" <junkiebrush@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125590744.810342.3270@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Thanks everyone. Having read the section on ethanwiner.com about bass
> traps, it sounds like that might not be possible, as we simply don't
> have the room to add a cavity.

Firstly, there is a possibility that's unlikely, but should be checked, just
for the purposes of elimination. Your monitors could be connected out of
phase, and your recording could also be out of phase; so when you listen on
your monitors it sounds fine but listtening on a correctly-wired system you
lose the low frequencies.

After that, I think you need to identify:

1) What's missing from the mixed tracks
2) Why that's not apparent when monitoring

Have you tried analyzing the frequency spectrum of your mixes, and comparing
it with other recordings you think sound OK?

It seems to me that the problem may be the monitors; they may have a wide
resonance band around say 100Hz, which is making you think the signal has
that frequency range covered when it actually doesn't.

You did say that the low frequencies are missing when listening in the car.
But car cabins are small and have a hefty low-freuqency gain, so if the low
frequencies were present in the mix, you'd have thought you'd hear them in
the car.

Tim

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

well i agree that if the room was larger enough for correct placement of the
monitors then you would need is traps.
It took some time for me to get used to them plugged but now i don't like
the sound unplugged. I think these suit dance music very well. I am
producing pop/rock but for the price they are a very good speaker, however i
don't like the fact that the don't have a heat sink on the back, but are
just flat. the get quiet hot and that concerns me. Hope the don't burn out.
Aaron

"anahata" <anahata@reply-to.address> wrote in message
news:431774d7$0$1299$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> Aaron Smith wrote:
>> trust me its the ports it says it in the manual, fill in to ports for
>> small rooms and all 4 ports if you have to have the monitors by the wall.
>
> Fair enough, if they're designed to be used that way. I don't have those
> speakers so I woudn't have known it was in the manual.
>
> --
> Anahata
> anahata@treewind.co.uk -+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
> Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Big Tim wrote:
> Hi everyone, I'd greatly appreciate your advice on a problem I'm having
> with monitors, which seems similar to another thread elsewhere on here
> but is a little more specific. I have a pair of Alesis M1 Active Mk II
> powered monitors, which I know are pretty cheap but that's all funds
> allow at the moment. The problem is that in our control room, they seem
> very full and rounded, but when playing back any recordings outside the
> control room (car or home stereos) there is little-to-no bass & low
> middle in the recordings.
>
> Having read the other thread it seems likely that it's the room causing
> it - it is tiny (barely 10' by 5') with the monitors on one of the
> longer walls. Unfortunately we're stuck with it for the foreseeable
> future, so is there anything I can do with insulation to get a more
> accurate eq in the playback of recordings?
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated,
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Tim
>

I have an alternate solution that does work once you adjust your ears. Headphones. Yes, I know,
there are lots of reasons to not do a mix this way, but with a quality set of headphones you can
create a very good and balanced mix.

That said, I still prefer speakers and space, but when it is not conducive to a good mix and traps
and other stuff doesn't work, this does. And it isn't all that expensive, maybe 100 to 200 bucks tops.

--fletch

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

your biggest problem is uneven bass response. your most sensible
solution is to not be cheap and to spend some money on Ethan Winer's
bass traps.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

If you are on a tiny budget, an idea may be to get another set or two of
cheap monitors. Rotate between them and you will probably be able to tell
how to fix the problem.


<genericaudioperson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125641390.931408.218140@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> your biggest problem is uneven bass response. your most sensible
> solution is to not be cheap and to spend some money on Ethan Winer's
> bass traps.
>

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Lorin David Schultz" <Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca> wrote in news:EcORe.160303
$wr.6616@clgrps12:


> You get two, count 'em, two passes of the multitrack. The first pass is
> a "tester." Listen to what you got and what you can do. The second
> pass you print. No stopping, no rewinding. Just mix on the fly.
>
> Do the test with speakers first.
>
> Now, pick a new song and do the same test with headphones. I guarantee
> that the vocal level and reverb returns will be way off.

In my case, you'd lose. I've been mixing with both headphones and speakers
for nearly 30 years.

If you listen much on headphones, you get used to the sound. When mixing
on headphones you have to make it sound like it should in headphones.

There is no subsitute for speakers for checking mono compatibility and
other listening-to-both-sources-with-both-ears checks, but headphones
provide incomparable clarity and accuracy for hearing detail you may not
hear on any but the best speakers. Headphones also negate room effects and
external noise sources.

I would never consider releasing a recording I hadn't auditioned on
headphones--no more than I would release it without hearing it on speakers.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Big Tim" <junkiebrush@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125571859.303661.279550@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

One other thing: try monitoring in mono, with only one of your speakers
turned up. With your room setup, having two speakers will be giving you
several dB of low-frequency boost.

Tim

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Carey,

> If you're on a tiny budget, go to Ethan Winer's site and download the
plans for the bass traps and build them yourself. <

Even easier and cheaper, and especially useful for small rooms: Grab some
bales of fluffy fiberglass or mineral wool at the local hardware store, and
stack them in the room corners still in their plastic bags. It looks like
hell but works pretty darn well given the low cost.

--Ethan

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Carey Carlan" <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> headphones provide incomparable clarity and accuracy for hearing
> detail you may not hear on any but the best speakers.



Agreed, which makes them excellent for editing and surgery.

What they won't give you is an accurate sense of the balance between
tracks. That "hearing detail" you cite is what causes most people to
run the vocal way too low. They also don't tell you much about what the
bottom end is going to do in a real space, so people usually wind up
with mixes that are too bumpy on the bottom.

Maybe through trial and error you've learned to compensate. You could
also learn to write with your other hand, but that still doesn't make it
the "better" approach.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

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>
> Get a really big sheepdog.


Decorate in teddy bears.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, I had a full day in the studio yesterday and tried the "stuff the
ports with socks" trick and it helped immensely. It didn't change the
overall character of the monitors much, but it did take out an awful
lot of the boomy low end that was causing me to compensate in the
mixes. First new batch of mixes sound much better on a variety of
stereos.

Next step is to get a bass trap or two set up in the corners but I
think we'll struggle to get much more than that in our tiny control
room. The experiment will go on!