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Do You Know What it Means to Miss New Orleans

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Anonymous
September 2, 2005 4:16:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

A moment of silence for the greatest music city in the world.


"Do You Know What it Means to Miss New Orleans"

Do you know what it means to miss new orleans
And miss it each night and day
I know I'm not wrong... this feeling's gettin' stronger
The longer, I stay away
Miss them moss covered vines...the tall sugar pines
Where mockin' birds used to sing
And I'd like to see that lazy mississippi...hurryin' into spring

The moonlight on the bayou.......a creole tune
that fills the air
I dream... about magnolias in bloom......and I'm wishin' I was
there

Do you know what it means to miss new orleans
When that's where you left your heart
And there's one thing more...i miss the one I care for
More than I miss new orleans

The moonlight on the bayou.......a creole tune.... that fills the air
I dream... about magnolias in bloom......and I'm wishin' I was
there

Do you know what it means to miss new orleans
When that's where you left your heart
And there's one thing more...i miss the one I care for
More.....more than I miss.......new orleans

More about : means miss orleans

Anonymous
September 2, 2005 8:01:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

> Has anyone seen signs of Richard Webb this week ??

No. I've been wondering about him, and I thought he lived in or very
close to the French Quarter. With him being blind and his wife being
disabled, they probably needed some help to move quickly. On the other
hand, he's an active ham radio operator and may have been spirited away
by that group to help with communication.

Wherever he is, I wish him well. I heard that Little Richard has been
found alive and wet.

I think it's an embarassment that the National Guard has to waste their
time on looters when there are people who need food and a place to
rest.
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 10:03:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike, I think you meant Fats Domino has been found alive and wet. But,
I dunno...maybe Little Richard was there, too. :) 

The whole way that this has been handled/bungled is so much of an
indictment of this clumsy, short-sighted administration. One burning
question for my fellow Americans - why is it that after the tsunami in
Banda Aceh food supplies were air-dropped on the second day and here it
is the FIFTH day and no supplies of food and water available to the
people in New Orleans? The Feds cut funding back in 2003 that could
have helped prevent this mess in the first place and now BushCo was on
vacation and slow...no...sluggish to react to help. It is shameful and
a national disgrace.

My heart goes out to the People of NO and the whole Gulf Coast area.
God bless and help them.
Related resources
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 10:08:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

will wrote:
> Mike, I think you meant Fats Domino has been found alive and wet. But,
> I dunno...maybe Little Richard was there, too. :) 

You're right - I did, and realized it just after I posted the message.
Temporary distraction on the way from the brain to the fingers. No way
to fix that here, though. I'll just have to be embarassed ;) 
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 11:45:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1125666188.275106.112320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"will" <wpmusic@sio.midco.net> wrote:

> Mike, I think you meant Fats Domino has been found alive and wet. But,
> I dunno...maybe Little Richard was there, too. :) 
>
> The whole way that this has been handled/bungled is so much of an
> indictment of this clumsy, short-sighted administration. One burning
> question for my fellow Americans - why is it that after the tsunami in
> Banda Aceh food supplies were air-dropped on the second day and here it
> is the FIFTH day and no supplies of food and water available to the
> people in New Orleans? The Feds cut funding back in 2003 that could
> have helped prevent this mess in the first place and now BushCo was on
> vacation and slow...no...sluggish to react to help. It is shameful and
> a national disgrace.
>
> My heart goes out to the People of NO and the whole Gulf Coast area.
> God bless and help them.
>

Given the predictions of disaster that were available well before the hurricane
hit the Gulf coast, one has to wonder why the recovery effort is so slow and
uncoordinated. In California, we have to deal with potential earthquakes, but
even the most powerful of these will not cause the complete disruption of life
that we see in New Oreans. I hope this example of what we can expect from
government leads more people to take emergency preparedness seriously.

Having spent a week in New Orleans several years ago, I cannot help but share
the desparation of those folks still there and the sense of loss.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 11:54:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Has anyone seen signs of Richard Webb this week ??
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 2:23:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"why is it that after the tsunami in
Banda Aceh food supplies were air-dropped on the second day and here it
is the FIFTH day and no supplies of food and water available to the
people in New Orleans? "

Can you RIOT boys and girls?
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 2:34:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny Taddei wrote:
> "why is it that after the tsunami in
> Banda Aceh food supplies were air-dropped on the second day and here it
> is the FIFTH day and no supplies of food and water available to the
> people in New Orleans? "
>
> Can you RIOT boys and girls?



It means America is ruled by incompetent people.
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 3:30:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jay Kadis" <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:jay-4CA0F5.07453802092005@news.stanford.edu

> Given the predictions of disaster that were available
> well before the hurricane hit the Gulf coast, one has to
> wonder why the recovery effort is so slow and
> uncoordinated.

I really hate to pick on the victims, but the same facts
lead to a different question - why were so many people still
hanging around? I believe I heard about like 20,000+ people
huddled in the Superdome. In a city with less than 500,000
population that's about 5% of the population in just one
building. There must have been like 25% of the population
just hanging around waiting to get wet.

The probability of flooding of the kind that happened in New
Orleans was well-known and well-documented for years. There
are few if any places in the US that are *more* likely to
experience catastrophic flooding of this severity,
pervasiveness and duration.

The strength and near-exact path of the hurricane was known
with reasonble accuracy for at least 3 days in advance.
People have been publicizing the probable outcome of a
hurricane like this for years and decades.

This is not an earthquake friends, it was train that
wrecked when it hit the wall at the end of the line which
has clearly visible on down the tracks for years.
Furthermore the figurative train stopped to let off
passengers dozens of times before it hit the wall, many
times with the wall so clearly visible it was casting a
shadow on the train. People at all levels had plenty of time
to consider dealing with the wall or getting off the train.

>In California, we have to deal with
> potential earthquakes, but even the most powerful of
> these will not cause the complete disruption of life that
> we see in New Oreans.

There is nothing as pervasive as water seeking its own
level, it would seem.

Earthquake and Tsunami victims deserve some sympathy because
they don't get 3 days of immenent, reliable warnings. The
Tsunami victims may get a few hours of warning, the tragedy
there being that warnings aren't always properly
disseminated.

> I hope this example of what we can
> expect from government leads more people to take
> emergency preparedness seriously.

There's a saying around the Great Lakes - if you don't want
to get your feet wet, don't live next to a lake. Ironically,
we've got a goodly numbers of visitors from NO just lately.
Maybe we can share some knowlege with them, along with
hospitality and help.

The history of New Orleans is not itself a picture of
charity. In 1927 the city fathers holed a levy and
intentonally flooded out 100's of thousands of their rural
neighbors so that NO wouldn't suffer with a flood

> Having spent a week in New Orleans several years ago, I
> cannot help but share the desparation of those folks
> still there and the sense of loss.

I hate to see people suffer, whether they could have helped
themselves or not.

..
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 3:30:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <gOqdnQYZGpiw7YXeRVn-ig@comcast.com>,
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote:

> "Jay Kadis" <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote in message
> news:jay-4CA0F5.07453802092005@news.stanford.edu
>
> > Given the predictions of disaster that were available
> > well before the hurricane hit the Gulf coast, one has to
> > wonder why the recovery effort is so slow and
> > uncoordinated.
>
> I really hate to pick on the victims, but the same facts
> lead to a different question - why were so many people still
> hanging around? I believe I heard about like 20,000+ people
> huddled in the Superdome. In a city with less than 500,000
> population that's about 5% of the population in just one
> building. There must have been like 25% of the population
> just hanging around waiting to get wet.
>

I decided not to go there in my original post, but there appears to be an
element of economic class discrimination involved. Several people I've heard
interviewed said their pay was due on the 31st and they had no money for gas to
leave. I'm sure many people thought they could ride it out as before, but
plenty of people had no way to leave even if they wanted. Most of those left
behind had little in the way of possessions by American standards. The poor
suffer the most in any marginal situation.

> The probability of flooding of the kind that happened in New
> Orleans was well-known and well-documented for years. There
> are few if any places in the US that are *more* likely to
> experience catastrophic flooding of this severity,
> pervasiveness and duration.
>

This is true for cities all along the Mississippi and other low-lying places.
We are not very intelligent about where we choose to locate cities, but then
most of these cities were built long before we had our current level of
knowledge about many of the potential perils associated with what look mostly
like lovely places to live. San Francisco is another great example of a
beautiful city built in the wrong place. We are going to have to consider the
wisdom of continuing to rebuild in places like this after major disasters.

> The strength and near-exact path of the hurricane was known
> with reasonble accuracy for at least 3 days in advance.
> People have been publicizing the probable outcome of a
> hurricane like this for years and decades.
>
> This is not an earthquake friends, it was train that
> wrecked when it hit the wall at the end of the line which
> has clearly visible on down the tracks for years.
> Furthermore the figurative train stopped to let off
> passengers dozens of times before it hit the wall, many
> times with the wall so clearly visible it was casting a
> shadow on the train. People at all levels had plenty of time
> to consider dealing with the wall or getting off the train.
>

I think we have to lay much of the blame on politicians at every level who
failed to take the threat as seriously as they should have over the years. With
the kind of warning we had, there's no excuse for the poor performance of our
emergency management systems. I think some of the blame can also be aimed at
those who promote "homeland security" while ignoring the most urgent of threats,
that of natural disasters the we know with certainty will occur. If anything
good comes from this disaster, it will be a better appreciation of what nature
can do and a more robust system for handling such emergencies.

My home studio was flooded several times by a ruptured water heater and sewer
backups. These tiny floods gave me an idea what damage a real flood could
cause. Flooding is without doubt the most pernicious of natural disasters.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 4:58:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 9/2/05 7:01 AM, in article
1125658898.284089.12800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Mike Rivers"
<mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:

>
> David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
>
>> Has anyone seen signs of Richard Webb this week ??
>
> No. I've been wondering about him, and I thought he lived in or very
> close to the French Quarter. With him being blind and his wife being
> disabled, they probably needed some help to move quickly. On the other
> hand, he's an active ham radio operator and may have been spirited away
> by that group to help with communication.
>
> Wherever he is, I wish him well. I heard that Little Richard has been
> found alive and wet.
>
> I think it's an embarassment that the National Guard has to waste their
> time on looters when there are people who need food and a place to
> rest.
>

....what National Guard...?
September 2, 2005 5:01:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> No. I've been wondering about him, and I thought he lived in or very
> close to the French Quarter.

That district is high and dry, I'm told. Seems that the old guys who built
first knew better than to build in low spots. Duh.



> With him being blind and his wife being
> disabled, they probably needed some help to move quickly. On the other
> hand, he's an active ham radio operator and may have been spirited away
> by that group to help with communication.
>

Those guys, if they have solar panels for power, are the geniuses in all
this. The hams get are due for a big, gigantic "I told ya so."

-John O
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 5:01:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"JohnO" <johno@@&%heathkit##.com> wrote in message
news:n2YRe.2416$Kk1.1785@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
>> No. I've been wondering about him, and I thought he lived in or very
>> close to the French Quarter.
>
> That district is high and dry, I'm told. Seems that the old guys who built
> first knew better than to build in low spots. Duh.

Interestingly enough, when New Orleans was built it was significantly above
sea level everywhere. The periodic flooding of the Mississippi river
deposited silt all over the delta. However, New Orleans didn't want to be
flooded periodically (I can't imagine why!) so they built levees to keep out
the water of the Mississippi and also Lake Ponchatrain. The silt that would
have spread around NO was now confined to "other than New Orleans", and
while those areas continued to build up, NO stayed in place until it was
well below sea level. It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature.

Norm Strong
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 7:01:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

J_West wrote:

> A moment of silence for the greatest music city in the world.

> "Do You Know What it Means to Miss New Orleans"

Took the liberty of quoting it on my site.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 7:06:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

will wrote:
>
> The whole way that this has been handled/bungled is so much of an
> indictment of this clumsy, short-sighted administration. One burning
> question for my fellow Americans - why is it that after the tsunami in
> Banda Aceh food supplies were air-dropped on the second day and here it
> is the FIFTH day and no supplies of food and water available to the
> people in New Orleans? The Feds cut funding back in 2003 that could
> have helped prevent this mess in the first place and now BushCo was on
> vacation and slow...no...sluggish to react to help. It is shameful and
> a national disgrace.

Someone quipped yesterday that New Orleans should secede from the union
and apply for foreign aid!

I wonder about this whole looting issue, though. Frankly, I have no
doubt that there is quite a bit of opportunistic looting going on. But I
suspect that a great deal of what they are calling "looting" is actually
people who are trying to get much needed supplies from stores that have
stock but aren't doing business. If I were in dire need of fresh water
or food in an emergency like this, and there was a store nearby that
appeared to have that stock, I sure wouldn't hesitate to help myself.
Especially if I was trying to care for children or the elderly.

I heard stories about people running off with ten pairs of blue jeans or
a television - that's looting, pure and simple. But in 90+ degree heat
and no cover, a lot of people are just going to need clean water. That's
a whole different story.
September 2, 2005 7:51:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> In California, we have to deal with potential earthquakes, but
> even the most powerful of these will not cause the complete disruption of
> life
> that we see in New Oreans.

With all due respect to Californicators and your unending planning, you
don't really know that yet, do you?

-John O
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 8:27:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Agent 86 wrote:

> What bullshit! Many these people didn't have a pot to piss in to begin
> with & they've just lost what little they did have. to call them looters
> for taking (insured) food & clothing from empty stores is simply insane.

On the other hand, when they take television sets, that's looting. I
don't think they deserve to be shot, but it would be nice if they just
got out of town promptly without that excess baggage. I heard an
interview with a musician on the radio this morning who said he saw his
neighbors carrying away guitars and amplifiers from his home. I'll bet
it wasn't to save them for their owner.
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 8:49:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jay Kadis wrote:

> Given the predictions of disaster that were available well
> before the hurricane hit the Gulf coast, one has to wonder
> why the recovery effort is so slow and uncoordinated.

One obvious reason being that it was thought that the storm risk was
smaller with the storm being downgraded from a 5 to a 4 and then hitting
New Orleans as a 3 because it hit from the land side. Another being that
not enough decisionmakers seem to have understood that the water in the
sea is more dangerous than the wind above it. Consequently they thought
that it was over when the wind had passed the city as a much smaller
wind than expected.

This asumption based on the situation monday evening at the tape
recordists club,I am a member of, where it took some explanation from me
to make people understand how serious a power outage is for sewage and
draining pumps, that alone, even without the dikes breaking, made the
situation very grave already then. The other members initially believed
the newsmedia that by then had reported that New Orleans "got a lot
easier over the storm than initially expected". It didn't.

That said, I think there is a planet full of people wondering why it
takes so long to get the US Army moving and why it has taken so long to
comprehend that it is a national and not just a regional disaster. The
citys mayor has said similar most eloquently, I just wish that newsmedia
knew when not to bleep over profanities that were most appropiate in the
context.

> -Jay

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 8:51:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Jay Kadis" <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote in message
> news:jay-4CA0F5.07453802092005@news.stanford.edu

> > Given the predictions of disaster that were available
> > well before the hurricane hit the Gulf coast, one has to
> > wonder why the recovery effort is so slow and
> > uncoordinated.
>
> I really hate to pick on the victims, but the same facts
> lead to a different question - why were so many people still
> hanging around?

CNN has answered this, the answer is: no car in the household.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 8:51:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Peter Larsen" <SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote in
message news:43186708.183090D0@mail.tele.dk
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> "Jay Kadis" <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote in message
>> news:jay-4CA0F5.07453802092005@news.stanford.edu
>
>>> Given the predictions of disaster that were available
>>> well before the hurricane hit the Gulf coast, one has to
>>> wonder why the recovery effort is so slow and
>>> uncoordinated.
>>
>> I really hate to pick on the victims, but the same facts
>> lead to a different question - why were so many people
>> still hanging around?
>
> CNN has answered this, the answer is: no car in the
> household.

Under the circumstances, that also means:

(1) No public transit (e.g., bus, train)?
(2) No friends and/or neighbors with cars?
(3) Hitchhiking didn't work?
September 2, 2005 8:51:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Peter Larsen wrote:
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>
>>"Jay Kadis" <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote in message
>>news:jay-4CA0F5.07453802092005@news.stanford.edu
>
>
>
>>>Given the predictions of disaster that were available
>>>well before the hurricane hit the Gulf coast, one has to
>>>wonder why the recovery effort is so slow and
>>>uncoordinated.
>>
>>I really hate to pick on the victims, but the same facts
>>lead to a different question - why were so many people still
>>hanging around?
>
>
> CNN has answered this, the answer is: no car in the household.

I also saw tourists, and people in New Orleans on business travel who
were stranded. These were people who could not get flights out of New
Orleans and couldn't find alternate transportation.

Also, many who did have cars, simply could not do battle with the
traffic any longer, and wound up at the superdome.

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
www.Raw-Tracks.com
www.Mad-Host.com
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 9:23:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Peter Larsen" <SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote in message
news:4318667E.9D4805C0@mail.tele.dk...
>
> That said, I think there is a planet full of people wondering why it
> takes so long to get the US Army moving and why it has taken so long to
> comprehend that it is a national and not just a regional disaster.

How long does it take to drive a convoy of 5 ton trucks 500-2000 miles?
What are the circumstances in which active duty forces can be deployed in
the US?
What are the command and control issues that might prevent/hinder a rapid
deployment?

Glenn D.
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 9:33:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:gOqdnQYZGpiw7YXeRVn-ig@comcast.com...
> "Jay Kadis" <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote in message
> news:jay-4CA0F5.07453802092005@news.stanford.edu
>
> > Given the predictions of disaster that were available
> > well before the hurricane hit the Gulf coast, one has to
> > wonder why the recovery effort is so slow and
> > uncoordinated.
>
> I really hate to pick on the victims, but the same facts
> lead to a different question - why were so many people still
> hanging around? I believe I heard about like 20,000+ people
> huddled in the Superdome. In a city with less than 500,000
> population that's about 5% of the population in just one
> building. There must have been like 25% of the population
> just hanging around waiting to get wet.

The short answer is that most of the people who stayed were poor people who
didn't own cars -- the poverty rate in NO is considerably higher than the
national average -- and, because the hurricane hit at the end of the month,
did not have the cash to pay for another way out of town.

One of the scandals of this event is that the evacuation plans for the city
did not include any provision for people who couldn't just get in their cars
and drive out. Those buses that are now -- very slowly -- evacuating people
to Houston should have been moving people *before* the storm hit.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 9:47:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:

>>> I really hate to pick on the victims, but the same facts
>>> lead to a different question - why were so many people
>>> still hanging around?

>> CNN has answered this, the answer is: no car in the
>> household.

> Under the circumstances, that also means:

> (1) No public transit (e.g., bus, train)?
> (2) No friends and/or neighbors with cars?
> (3) Hitchhiking didn't work?

Arny, it would be unfitting for me to sit here from afar and critize the
evacuation, it is also not necessary, those CNN snippets that have made
it to the internationally broadcast version have done so in quite full
measure.

It is also completely irrelevant how come there are people left in the
city, that is not the issue, the issue is how to get them out, alive
that is.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 9:55:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jay Kadis wrote:
> In California, we have to deal with potential earthquakes, but
> even the most powerful of these will not cause the complete disruption of life
> that we see in New Oreans.

Please be sure to communicate this in the most urgent way to
the news media, the community planners, emergency agencies,
and everyone in all neighborhoods. This is probably the best
news anyone in California will ever hear. It's good to know
that all the planning and stocking of emergency food, water,
etc. will not now have to be done, and we'll be able to
spend the money we might otherwise spend on preparedness, on
something else.

I'll bet the folks at Cal Tech will be thrilled to know
this, as well.

Thanks for the info. I can feel better knowing that I can
stop trying to intrepret Nostradamus...


TM
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 9:55:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <4318920F.8B510E70@earthlink.net>, T Maki <tmaki@earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Jay Kadis wrote:
> > In California, we have to deal with potential earthquakes, but
> > even the most powerful of these will not cause the complete disruption of
> > life
> > that we see in New Oreans.
>
> Please be sure to communicate this in the most urgent way to
> the news media, the community planners, emergency agencies,
> and everyone in all neighborhoods. This is probably the best
> news anyone in California will ever hear. It's good to know
> that all the planning and stocking of emergency food, water,
> etc. will not now have to be done, and we'll be able to
> spend the money we might otherwise spend on preparedness, on
> something else.
>
> I'll bet the folks at Cal Tech will be thrilled to know
> this, as well.
>
> Thanks for the info. I can feel better knowing that I can
> stop trying to intrepret Nostradamus...
>
>
> TM


Very funny. Do some thinking before you spout off.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 10:01:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

normanstrong@comcast.net wrote:

[...]

> while those areas continued to build up, NO stayed in place until it was
> well below sea level. It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature.

???

I don't understand how something that was above sea level
came to be below it without one going down or the other
going up.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 10:07:45 PM

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nmm wrote:

> Danny Taddei wrote:
>
>>"why is it that after the tsunami in
>>Banda Aceh food supplies were air-dropped on the second day and here it
>>is the FIFTH day and no supplies of food and water available to the
>>people in New Orleans? "
>>
>>Can you RIOT boys and girls?
>
>
>
>
> It means America is ruled by incompetent people.
>


All people are essentially incompetent, given the right
circumstances.

--
Les Cargill
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 10:11:27 PM

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Jay Kadis wrote:

> In California, we have to deal with potential
earthquakes, but
> even the most powerful of these will not cause the complete disruption of life
> that we see in New Oreans.

I wouldn't count on that. Bande Aceh shook at 9.something
for *ten minutes* and nothing was left standing. From the
stress stored in the San Andreas alone the same thing is
entirely within the realm of possibility out here. Nothing
will withstand that much energy being poured into it without
disintegrating. Think of every overpass in the S.F Bay Area
down and you have a very similar problem with transport in
and out that is making the gulf coast region so difficult to
relieve. What I am seeing down there is making Madison, WI
look better and better.

The tsunami struck regions had no such problem because it
didn't extend far inland and access remained to almost
everywhere that was devastated. This from an interviewed
doctor who was a volunteer for that effort as well as this one.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 10:17:41 PM

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Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Jay Kadis" <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote in message
> news:jay-4CA0F5.07453802092005@news.stanford.edu
>
>
>>Given the predictions of disaster that were available
>>well before the hurricane hit the Gulf coast, one has to
>>wonder why the recovery effort is so slow and
>>uncoordinated.
>
>
> I really hate to pick on the victims, but the same facts
> lead to a different question - why were so many people still
> hanging around?

Do you know what poor with no place to go and now way to get
there means? Getting them out would have required a massive
pro-active effort by the fed and the states. "Everbody git
movin' now" will never hack it.


> The strength and near-exact path of the hurricane was known
> with reasonble accuracy for at least 3 days in advance.
> People have been publicizing the probable outcome of a
> hurricane like this for years and decades.

But such destruction is not in the life experience of anyone
currently living. It is all too easy to believe, based on
prior experience, that it can't be as horrible as it was.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 10:27:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Glenn Dowdy wrote:

> What are the command and control issues that might prevent/hinder a rapid
> deployment?

By common sense the the distinction between regional and national
emergency.

Also: by using whatever emergency clauses that need to be used for a
national troup deployment the situation is defined as a national event.
That is likely to have wide ranging budgetary implications.

Example story highlighting similar considerations:

Back in 1920 we had a constititional crisis here in Denmark, the outcome
was the formalisation of parlamentarianism - ie. that a government has
to resign if a parlament majority is against it.

As I recall the history books, and I may well err, what had happened was
that the King had made someone Prime Minister against the will of the
Folketing, the lower house in the two chamber system we had back then.
The outcome was general strike and massive demonstrations.

I anecdotally _know_ that it was decided on very high level to leave it
to the police to manage the streets, because deploying troups would
imply that it was rebellion and not just demonstrations. There may also
have been some worry about whose side the troups from Baadmandstraedes
Kaserne - now Christiania - would be on if asked to control the
demonstations. The population, it appears, had a better understanding of
what democracy is than the King at that time had. That did not hinder
Christian X from later becoming a National Symbol.

> Glenn D.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 11:04:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 9/2/05 9:03 AM, in article
1125666188.275106.112320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "will"
<wpmusic@sio.midco.net> wrote:
> The Feds cut funding back in 2003 that could
> have helped prevent this mess in the first place

FIRST I AGREE WITH ALL OU SAID..
Just in trying to keep from kneejerk overstatement... I don;t think it's at
all clear that ANYTHING that anyone might have done down there would have
been able to withstand this storm... 25 foot surge is pretty nasty... Though
yeah, if only the levees had held it would have been a massive difference.
That Shrub has managed to make reams of shortsighted (except for
anti-constitutional feneral power usurpations) business decicions all along
and looks to make it thru his tenure before anyone manages to hit him back
as the responsible party is insane. Helping son with US history and looking
at the PANIC OF 1819 makes me shiver in the parallels.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 12:52:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jay Kadis wrote:
> In article <Rx_Re.2557$nB6.700@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>,
> "JohnO" <johno@@&%heathkit##.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>In California, we have to deal with potential earthquakes, but
>>>even the most powerful of these will not cause the complete disruption of
>>>life
>>>that we see in New Oreans.
>>
>>With all due respect to Californicators and your unending planning, you
>>don't really know that yet, do you?
>>
>>-John O
>>
>>
>
>
> Actually, we do. Earthquakes disrupt the ground in limited areas, but we can
> still walk around and breathe. Try that in 20 feet of water. We were close to
> the 1989 quake here at Stanford and even in Santa Cruz and San Francisco the
> damage was quite limited compared to the damage from a flood like that in New
> Orleans.

It was 7.0 and lasted for, what, 15 or 20 seconds? Consider
9.0 for ten minutes (100 times the magnitude for 30 times as
long) such as Bande Aceh got and that experts consider quite
possible here with the San Andreas as wound up as it is. It
is as unimaginable to us as what happened down there was to
them. Only far more so.

I keep bringing this up because now is as clear a time as
there is to underscore the need for planning and preperation
out here. Has FEMA been as emasculated by BushCo here as it
was there? Whaddayou think?

*This* is what smaller government (and expensive wars funded
by lower taxes and borrowed money) gets us. We pay now or
we pay later and later is always more expensive.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 2:22:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:23:12 -0700, Danny Taddei wrote:

> "why is it that after the tsunami in
> Banda Aceh food supplies were air-dropped on the second day and here it
> is the FIFTH day and no supplies of food and water available to the
> people in New Orleans? "
>
> Can you RIOT boys and girls?

"They have M-16s and are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot
and kill and I expect they will" (Louisiana's Governor on the troops being
sent in to prevent looting.)

Human lives lost appear a minor inconvenience compared to the tragedy of a
looted shop. What do you think they will do to rioters?
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 2:32:49 AM

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On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 22:22:36 +0000, philicorda wrote:

> "They have M-16s and are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot
> and kill and I expect they will" (Louisiana's Governor on the troops being
> sent in to prevent looting.)
>
> Human lives lost appear a minor inconvenience compared to the tragedy of a
> looted shop. What do you think they will do to rioters?

What bullshit! Many these people didn't have a pot to piss in to begin
with & they've just lost what little they did have. to call them looters
for taking (insured) food & clothing from empty stores is simply insane.

But to our President, who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, more
dead poor people just means a smaller amount of the budget has to go to
welfare next year.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 3:01:15 AM

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Jay Kadis wrote:
>
> In article <4318920F.8B510E70@earthlink.net>, T Maki <tmaki@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Jay Kadis wrote:
> > > In California, we have to deal with potential earthquakes, but
> > > even the most powerful of these will not cause the complete disruption of
> > > life
> > > that we see in New Oreans.
> >
> > Please be sure to communicate this in the most urgent way to
> > the news media, the community planners, emergency agencies,
> > and everyone in all neighborhoods. This is probably the best
> > news anyone in California will ever hear. It's good to know
> > that all the planning and stocking of emergency food, water,
> > etc. will not now have to be done, and we'll be able to
> > spend the money we might otherwise spend on preparedness, on
> > something else.
> >
> > I'll bet the folks at Cal Tech will be thrilled to know
> > this, as well.
> >
> > Thanks for the info. I can feel better knowing that I can
> > stop trying to intrepret Nostradamus...
> >
> >
> > TM
>
> Very funny. Do some thinking before you spout off.

Don't have to. I live with the threat of this kind of
catastrophe every day, just as other Californians do.

For 30 years I've driven the freeways between Los Angeles
and Palm Springs every day. I fly over the Soutland on a
regular basis. What I see and the behavior of people during
even a brief rain shower - let alone the "most powerful"
earthquake - leads me to believe that we are going to be in
the worst kind of trouble.

That someone would say "even the most powerful of these will
not cause the complete disruption of life that we see in New
Oreans" leaves me incredulous.

We have no idea how to prepare for "even the most powerful"
eazrthquake because we have no idea how powerful the most
powerful will be.

Having been on the emergency planning committee for a
Fortune-500 company for a number of years gave me a real
insight into just how unprepared both workplace environments
and individuals really are for even the most benign of
disruptions. That little fire we had a couple of years ago
is an example. The human mind is incapable of imagining the
disruption caused by "the most powerful" earthquake.

Happy to know that it's not like that at idyllic Stanford.


TM
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 7:48:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 18:01:09 -0700, Bob Cain
<arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote:

>> while those areas continued to build up, NO stayed in place until it was
>> well below sea level. It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature.
>
>???
>
>I don't understand how something that was above sea level
>came to be below it without one going down or the other
>going up.

Yeah, or as I understand it for N'orleans, both. The
way I've heard it the soft Delta soils settle down very
quickly (levies sink at four feet per year, or some
comparably impossible to believe number) and can
no longer be replenished with the topsoil of middle
America by flooding.

We all saw it coming, and now we're shocked, shocked!
that it's happened. Human nature, eh?

Personally, I'd hoped to die before the next Depression.
Oh, well,

Chris Hornbeck
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 8:02:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 18:11:27 -0700, Bob Cain
<arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote:

> What I am seeing down there is making Madison, WI
>look better and better.

There's a little stump of mesa on the Washington
side of the Columbia River called (like the humorously
titled steel two lane nearby) "Bridge of the Gods".

About 9000 years ago the land bridge there retained
a lake most of the size of Idaho. When it broke,
the wall of water was hundreds of feet high.
There are boulders from Montana in the Pacific
Ocean.

There were people living there at the time.
The survivors must have had some stories to tell.

All the best, as always,

Chris Hornbeck
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 9:14:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Cain wrote:

> normanstrong@comcast.net wrote:

> [...]

> > while those areas continued to build up, NO stayed in place until it was
> > well below sea level. It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature.

> ???

New Orleans currently settles by 11 millimeters pr. annum due to oil
exctraction from the underground. Additionally the bottom of the
Missisippi as well as the surrounding river delta gets elevated because
of silt deposits, so relatively New Orleans is slowly getting lowered
compared to the surrounding area.

> I don't understand how something that was above sea level
> came to be below it without one going down or the other
> going up.

There is also a large loss of seafront wetlands along the gulf coast,
and because of this there is less area that can break a storm up and act
as a sponge towards the "storm flood" as we call it here, "storm surge"
as CNN calls it; a problem that is very well known to the nations on
the east side of the North Sea but apparently less well known to those
of your budgetary decision makers that do not live near a coast.

The current evacuation logistics give an impression of USA as being
grossly incompentent, in a German newscast yesterday evening there was a
report from a highway people are evacuated to, but not from - ie. they
are just left there, with nothing being organized in spite of free road
access. Someone must assume that they can go back real soon, this in
spite of the fact that it is a possibility that the bulk of the city may
have to be moved rather than rebuilt in place.

> Bob


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 9:15:00 AM

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On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 05:14:59 +0200, Peter Larsen
<SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote:

>The current evacuation logistics give an impression of USA as being
>grossly incompentent,

I think incompetence is very, very kind.

Chris Hornbeck
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 9:15:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Peter Larsen wrote:

> New Orleans currently settles by 11 millimeters pr. annum due to oil
> exctraction from the underground. Additionally the bottom of the
> Missisippi as well as the surrounding river delta gets elevated because
> of silt deposits, so relatively New Orleans is slowly getting lowered
> compared to the surrounding area.

Scientists have been warning about this for years and the exact scenario
they spoke of came to be. I guess they must know something.

Maybe people should take their theories on global warming a bit more
seriously as well. Or else we may all be toast, soon.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 10:17:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:D fatji0vvn@enews1.newsguy.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "Jay Kadis" <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote in message
>> news:jay-4CA0F5.07453802092005@news.stanford.edu
>>
>>
>>> Given the predictions of disaster that were available
>>> well before the hurricane hit the Gulf coast, one has to
>>> wonder why the recovery effort is so slow and
>>> uncoordinated.
>>
>>
>> I really hate to pick on the victims, but the same facts
>> lead to a different question - why were so many people
>> still hanging around?
>
> Do you know what poor with no place to go and now way to
> get there means? Getting them out would have required a
> massive pro-active effort by the fed and the states.
> "Everbody git movin' now" will never hack it.

It has been recently revealed to me that it was well-known,
well in advance that if they tried to evacuate New Orleans,
about 100,000 people would not be able to leave town and get
to safety using their own means. That's 1/5 of the
population!

First and foremost, responsibility for acting on this
knowlege lies with the local officials. After all, they have
some control and influence in their own community. If the
job was too much for them after they exhausted every avenue,
then they should resign and let that at worst send a
message.

If they found this problem too hard to deal with on their
own, then they had the responsibility to move this critical
information up their chain of command. If their chain of
command were unresponsive, the local leaders were not
absolved of their responsibility for the situation.

Instead, the local leaders had a responsibility to appeal to
their community, namely their citizens and the leaders of
nearby cities and states for help, by direct means.

I don't see any evidence that the local community leaders
did anything of substance about the problem. That doesn't
mean that they didn't do anything, it just means that it
isn't evident to me at this time.

In the current situation, the most rational thing to do is
to try to deal with the problem, and take names and kick
butt once the crisis is under control.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 11:41:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"T Maki" <tmaki@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4318D97B.B09D6150@earthlink.net...

> We have no idea how to prepare for "even the most powerful"
> eazrthquake because we have no idea how powerful the most
> powerful will be.
>
> Having been on the emergency planning committee for a
> Fortune-500 company for a number of years gave me a real
> insight into just how unprepared both workplace environments
> and individuals really are for even the most benign of
> disruptions.

I mostly agree with you, but once in a while...

A few months ago there was a huge fire with multiple in a factory near
downtown St. Louis that manufactured cylinders filled with inflammable
gases. I was downtown when the first explosion blew; it sounded (from a mile
away) like two large trucks colliding, but when I looked out the door (I was
at the main library) I saw huge flames reaching into the sky, and a whole
lot of dense black smoke. Every little while another cylinder would explode
and the flames would reach higher; the cylinders landed in people's yards up
to 3/4 mile away. The firefighters took a looooong time to put the place
out.

How many people were injured or killed by the fire? NONE. Not one. Not one
factory worker, not one resident. (One firefighter was treated for heat
exhaustion -- this was St. Louis summer, on top of the fire.) Why was nobody
killed? Because the folks at the factory had a carefully drawn up disaster
plan, followed it to the letter when the fire first broke out, and everyone
got out just like they were supposed to, just like they had during all the
drills.

It *can* be done. Often it isn't (witness New Orleans), but the folks who
ran that factory deserve some kind of a medal for being prepared. Would that
more places would follow their example.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 5:32:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

And that is a shining example of how preparedness by
individuals - not expectations of rescue by government - is
the paramount issue. Just recognition of the dangers around
us and the possible consequences of a potentially disastrous
event is a long step in the right direction. During my
tenure on that company emergency committe I mentioned, it
was expressed over and over by the government and medical
authorities that we had to make all necessary preparations
to take care of ourselves (a campus of nearly 1000 people)
because "government" would not be able to get to us for
possible 3 or 4 days following a major disaster here in
Southern California. The "government" is stretched too thin
to respond to any but the most dire of situations. We wound
up planning and preparing to the extent that the police and
fire authorities in town declared the company a primary
triage location for the surrounding community. There was
enough water, packaged food, and medical supplies to support
everyone on campus as well as provide limited medical aid to
those around the neighborhood.

Good on those folks in St. Louis. That is exactly the kind
of forward thinking that everyone must engage in, no matter
where you live or work.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - a government big
enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take
everything you've got. At least at this point in our
history, you can't (and never should) rely on government to
protect you from disaster, or rescue you from one.

Yes, definitely it can be done. People just have to do it.



TM


Paul Stamler wrote:
>
>
> A few months ago there was a huge fire with multiple in a factory near
> downtown St. Louis
>
> How many people were injured or killed by the fire? NONE. Why was nobody
> killed? Because the folks at the factory had a carefully drawn up disaster
> plan, followed it to the letter when the fire first broke out, and everyone
> got out just like they were supposed to, just like they had during all the
> drills.
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 5:32:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"T Maki" <tmaki@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4319A5D5.3C730EED@earthlink.net

> And that is a shining example of how preparedness by
> individuals - not expectations of rescue by government -
> is the paramount issue. Just recognition of the dangers
> around us and the possible consequences of a potentially
> disastrous event is a long step in the right direction.

The need for individuals taking responsibility for their own
welfare is common sense.

I have to admit that I've taken this a little lightly in the
past. The events in NewOrleans have been a bit of a wakeup
call.

Most source materials about personal emergency preparedness
recommend having 3-5 days of water, food or other supplies
on hand because it is a given that it can take up to that
long for governement authorities to respond.

http://www.redcross.org/services/disaster/0,1082,0_3_,0...

How to obtain 3-5 days of water at the last possible
minute - fill your bathtub and other household containers.

How to obtain unlimited amounts of water after a flood -
boil the copiously available water in houseold kettles over
wood fires.

> During my tenure on that company emergency committe I
> mentioned, it was expressed over and over by the
> government and medical authorities that we had to make
> all necessary preparations to take care of ourselves (a
> campus of nearly 1000 people) because "government" would
> not be able to get to us for possible 3 or 4 days
> following a major disaster here in Southern California.

Bingo!

> The "government" is stretched too thin to respond to any
> but the most dire of situations. We wound up planning and
> preparing to the extent that the police and fire
> authorities in town declared the company a primary triage
> location for the surrounding community. There was enough
> water, packaged food, and medical supplies to support
> everyone on campus as well as provide limited medical aid
> to those around the neighborhood.

Bingo!
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 5:59:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Cain wrote:
>
>
> normanstrong@comcast.net wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> while those areas continued to build up, NO stayed in place until it
>> was well below sea level. It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature.
>
>
> ???
>
> I don't understand how something that was above sea level came to be
> below it without one going down or the other going up.
>
>
> Bob
If you read the OP, then you'd see. The riverbed went up, while NO
stayed in place.

Clear enough?

Actually it's a little more complex, according to what I've heard. Not
only did the surrounding ground rise, but the destruction of the
wetlands around NO caused it to descend, or sink, below it's original level.

One--carrying water--rising + one--needing to stay dry--sinking +
barrier between them allowed to deteriorate = DISASTER.

"This is your brain, this is your brain on....."

jak
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 6:12:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Jebabical" <jb@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:3nu0pbF3aq3tU1@individual.net
>
>>Arny Krueger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It has been recently revealed to me that it was
>>>well-known,
>>
>>
>>Blah blah blah.
>>
>>How about water? Humans can't go long without it. 5 days
>>before they could start dropping some bottles of water??
>
>
> Under the circumstances, they had plenty of opportunity to
> stockpile safe water before the slow flooding commenced.
>
> They were adrift in a sea of water, it was just polluted. I
> guess nobody ever heard of boiling water. They'd rather die
> of thirst.
>
Dude! You can't just 'boil' water polluted with God knows what, and
expect to be able to drink it safely. That might work in some places,
but not in the middle of a toxic bowl tens of miles wide.

Get real.

Boiling water sterilizes it of bacteria and viruses. It does not
eliminate motor oil, household chemicals and just plain dirt floating
around.

Besides, when 'surrounded by water' just exactly how did you propose to
'boil water'?

Or did I read you wrong? Did you actually say...

"Let them eat cake"?

jak
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 6:42:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

T Maki wrote:

> And that is a shining example of how preparedness by
> individuals - not expectations of rescue by government - is
> the paramount issue. Just recognition of the dangers around
> us and the possible consequences of a potentially disastrous
> event is a long step in the right direction. During my
> tenure on that company emergency committe I mentioned, it
> was expressed over and over by the government and medical
> authorities that we had to make all necessary preparations
> to take care of ourselves (a campus of nearly 1000 people)
> because "government" would not be able to get to us for
> possible 3 or 4 days following a major disaster here in
> Southern California. The "government" is stretched too thin
> to respond to any but the most dire of situations. We wound
> up planning and preparing to the extent that the police and
> fire authorities in town declared the company a primary
> triage location for the surrounding community. There was
> enough water, packaged food, and medical supplies to support
> everyone on campus as well as provide limited medical aid to
> those around the neighborhood.
>
> Good on those folks in St. Louis. That is exactly the kind
> of forward thinking that everyone must engage in, no matter
> where you live or work.
>
> I've said it before and I'll say it again - a government big
> enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take
> everything you've got. At least at this point in our
> history, you can't (and never should) rely on government to
> protect you from disaster, or rescue you from one.
>
> Yes, definitely it can be done. People just have to do it.

Here is the live journal of the crisis manager for a datacenter
in downtown new orleans. They have been up and running
the whole time. http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/
It isn't that hard, it's just a matter of planning, and carrying
through with the plan.
The old disaster mantra was that one should have enough
food/water/medications to go for three days without outside
assistance. I think that I'm going to see about increasing that
to two weeks worth at my home. Mostly I need to find a
place to store that much potable water, and buy more propane
for the camp stove.

--Dale
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 6:42:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Dale Farmer wrote:

<snip>
> The old disaster mantra was that one should have enough
> food/water/medications to go for three days without outside
> assistance. I think that I'm going to see about increasing that
> to two weeks worth at my home. Mostly I need to find a
> place to store that much potable water, and buy more propane
> for the camp stove.

You're talking about people who, at the end of the month (which this
was), have little--if any--money left to address their *daily* needs.

You want them to go out and buy a camp stove?

jak

>
> --Dale
>
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 7:01:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<<<< You can't blame it on 'City Hall'. Once the power and phones have
gone (
not to mention the place is flooded ) there's essentially nothing much
they can do. It needs national scale action past that point. >>>>>>>

Exactly. The US Army was the ONLY help and alternative available in the
immediate hours after this disaster.

Bush should have recognized, or have been told in his case, of the
scope of this disater and ordered in special forces within hours,
dropped by helicoper (just like those ARMY TV commercials?) ... to
secure the City. This is textbook military procedure.

Then there should have been water and MRE air drops the next day all
over the city for the survivors (they went at least 3 days with no food
or water which seriously destablized the situation)

With the quick drop off of troops, he city would have been secured much
quicker for rescuers to come in and much less looting from people
looking for food and water........ The evacuation would have had more
time to proceed once the population had basic sustenance.

Many lives were lost from a lack of leadership and quick response to
stabilize the situation.



J West
!