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is pro tools the only way?

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Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:06:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello,

I'm hoping to set up a small project studio where I can record small
groups and the like, and do soundtracks for video. I'm hoping this
will be technically possible with a high-spec laptop, suitable audio
interface, a good microphone (I already have a few cheaper ones), and
software. My budget should be around 5000 euros (less than $7000).
(I'll also need video equipment/software, but that's a different topic
I guess.)

Computers are fast now, and the interfaces all seem to have high
bit/sample rates, so is there any advantage to ProToolsLE software
(included with a Digi002 rack) over another interface/DAW combination
like a MOTU 828 Mk2 (which has SMPTE, 8 audio in & out) & Cubase?
Audio track counts seem almost irrelevant; I mean, ProToolsLE has
'only' 32 audio tracks, but when I started out as a musician 30 years
ago 24 tracks was considered the professional standard.

Many thanks for any advice,
Gerard

More about : pro tools

Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

As far as the softwares you mention (and the rest in their range) it
pretty much comes down to which one you like working with. Digi
software requires you use Digi hardware, except for their new M-Audio
versions, and the rest are more flexible except that some combinations
of hardware and other vendors' software are said to be compatible but
are not trouble free enough to use happily. But really in that price
range the advantages one has over the other are more in the approach
one software takes. I own several and for years used PTools for audio
based stuff but because it was weak in midi and virtual instruments
stayed with Digital Performer for that, though I never liked the way it
deals with audio files. Last year I got Logic because of the better
integration of internal synths and instruments and have bit by bit
gotten more used to staying in it through the audio stages instead of
porting it over to PTools. Cubase I've not used. They're sort of
all the same in the way they'll all do the job (and pretty much not
sound any worse through the same interfaces) and are all different in
that you may hate one and love the other.

They'll all do fine on a laptop, but you need to try them in action.
Perhaps if someone shows you how great and powerful one is, if you
watch them demonstrate you'd say "But I don't work that way and I don't
plan to." (That was my response to Logic for a decade until they came
out with their instrument bundle).


Best of luck!

V
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 11:06:55 -0400, gerrymcc@indigo.ie wrote
(in article <q4ESe.7456$R5.1003@news.indigo.ie>):

> Hello,
>
> I'm hoping to set up a small project studio where I can record small
> groups and the like, and do soundtracks for video. I'm hoping this
> will be technically possible with a high-spec laptop, suitable audio
> interface, a good microphone (I already have a few cheaper ones), and
> software. My budget should be around 5000 euros (less than $7000).
> (I'll also need video equipment/software, but that's a different topic
> I guess.)
>
> Computers are fast now, and the interfaces all seem to have high
> bit/sample rates, so is there any advantage to ProToolsLE software
> (included with a Digi002 rack) over another interface/DAW combination
> like a MOTU 828 Mk2 (which has SMPTE, 8 audio in & out) & Cubase?
> Audio track counts seem almost irrelevant; I mean, ProToolsLE has
> 'only' 32 audio tracks, but when I started out as a musician 30 years
> ago 24 tracks was considered the professional standard.
>
> Many thanks for any advice,
> Gerard
>

Depending on track and plugin consumption and ferocity of edits, laptops
usually run into problems more quickly due to the fact that everything is on
one disk.

Faster systems and higher spin hard drives will keep you away from the wall,
but having separate systems and media drives has been strongly suggested in
the past.

I run an older 001 and 002 on different macs. There are certainly other
systems out there, but mine allow me to make a liviing.

Want to hear clips?

Go here: http://home.comcast.net/%7Etyreeford/Library.html

All were done on the 001 or 002.

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Related resources
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 15:06:55 GMT, gerrymcc@indigo.ie wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I'm hoping to set up a small project studio where I can record small
>groups and the like, and do soundtracks for video. I'm hoping this
>will be technically possible with a high-spec laptop, suitable audio
>interface, a good microphone (I already have a few cheaper ones), and
>software. My budget should be around 5000 euros (less than $7000).
>(I'll also need video equipment/software, but that's a different topic
>I guess.)
>
>Computers are fast now, and the interfaces all seem to have high
>bit/sample rates, so is there any advantage to ProToolsLE software
>(included with a Digi002 rack) over another interface/DAW combination
>like a MOTU 828 Mk2 (which has SMPTE, 8 audio in & out) & Cubase?
>Audio track counts seem almost irrelevant; I mean, ProToolsLE has
>'only' 32 audio tracks, but when I started out as a musician 30 years
>ago 24 tracks was considered the professional standard.

Gerard -

Any particular reason you're set on a laptop?

You can get a better spec desktop for less.

- John
jtougas

listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
let's go

e.e. cummings
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I just dropped a bundle on the new pro logic 7and couldn't make it work
for me to save my life. I saw it demo'd at the apple store but when I
got it installed it was like trying to speak greak. I even read the
manual :-)

What fits with one person doesn't always fit someone else!
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny Taddei wrote:
> I just dropped a bundle on the new pro logic 7and couldn't make it work
> for me to save my life. I saw it demo'd at the apple store but when I
> got it installed it was like trying to speak greak. I even read the
> manual :-)
>
> What fits with one person doesn't always fit someone else!


LOL! I put myself in your category, so after a month of frustration I
hired a kid a third my age to come over and push me over the humps.

I think it was programmed by a genius, but his evil, vendetta obsessed,
criminally insane brother got the job of sabatoging the interface.
September 4, 2005 7:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

The biggest issue I have with ProTools is its incompatibility with anything
else. Digi gouge you for everything. In order to make your files
compatible with non-ProTools systems, you need DigiTranslator to create OMF
files. Some manufacturers include this in the system. Digi want $500 for
it. That's after spending thousands on a system. I wish I didn't need to
spend another $60 on a VSTi wrapper too.

Everything that you get for PT costs a fortune.

Don't hold your breath for support from them either.

I ordered an M-Box a couple of months ago so I could work with files on my
Powerbook when my HD system is unavailable. My local supplier only had an
M-Box with v.6.4 on, and I needed 6.9 to run on Tiger. In order for me not
to lose out on a complete upgrade path, I didn't want to start on v.6.4. 6.9
is out, and that's what I should start with unless I'm getting a great
price. It took Digi 2 months to get a CD to my supplier! My supplier cc'ed
me on all the emails he sent ot Digi chasing up the whereabouts of this
upgrade and he was really given the runaround. We may not be the biggest
customer Digi has ever seen, but you can guarantee we won't be recommending
it in future if they can't provide a reasonable level of service. To add
salt to the wound, they release the M-Box 2 just as I take delivery of my
full priced M-Box. Good job the money isn't coming out of my pocket, cos
I'd be really pissed then.




R

<gerrymcc@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:q4ESe.7456$R5.1003@news.indigo.ie...
> Hello,
>
> I'm hoping to set up a small project studio where I can record small
> groups and the like, and do soundtracks for video. I'm hoping this
> will be technically possible with a high-spec laptop, suitable audio
> interface, a good microphone (I already have a few cheaper ones), and
> software. My budget should be around 5000 euros (less than $7000).
> (I'll also need video equipment/software, but that's a different topic
> I guess.)
>
> Computers are fast now, and the interfaces all seem to have high
> bit/sample rates, so is there any advantage to ProToolsLE software
> (included with a Digi002 rack) over another interface/DAW combination
> like a MOTU 828 Mk2 (which has SMPTE, 8 audio in & out) & Cubase?
> Audio track counts seem almost irrelevant; I mean, ProToolsLE has
> 'only' 32 audio tracks, but when I started out as a musician 30 years
> ago 24 tracks was considered the professional standard.
>
> Many thanks for any advice,
> Gerard
>
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'm really used to Cubase and I know how to use protocols but for
some reason I just can't make stuff happen in logic. I don't know
what my problem is but I have a real mental block. I don't think I am
going to grind my teeth on it anymore. I am going to go out and buy one
of those dvd tutorials and just watch tv to learn it. I do thank you
for the offer though I don't think any of it would get though my
head.

It looked really cool in the apple store when the guy did his seminar.
If you are a logic guy, you should consider a mac and logic.
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

There are some turorials you can buy on DVD. You might look into that.
I am:-)
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I think you should consider your objectives and envision what you might
be doing in the future and base your hardware and software decisions on
that.

Some elements in your post spawn these assessments:

1. Working with other people.

If you start from scratch any software will work. However, what if the
clients want to finish the project elsewhere? Also, somebody might
bring you an unfinished Pro Tools project. My recommendation is to use
any software you want, but have PTLE hardware and software available,
e.g, Mbox. I don't know about M-powered, but I have the Mbox and people
have brought HD projects to me sans plug-ins. PTLE opened it and we
finished the songs. Transferring a non-PT project to PT is a bit more
difficult, but consider an application that has OMF output. You'll lose
plug-in and maybe some automation compatibility, but at least OMF keeps
the audio in sync.

2. Video

How do you plan to work with video? In my experience, people have given
me OMF files from Final Cut. I never used PT for OMF because PT
requires the US$500 Digitranslator utility. I used Digital Performer,
but it really doesn't matter which app you use as long as you can open
OMF, work on the audio, then give the client a stereo AIFF (or WAV)
file to import into their video app.

3. Laptop

I use a Powerbook, but I never record multitrack onto the internal
drive. It can't handle it. Use an external FW or USB2 drive and
everything will be fine. I use USB2 with a generic PCMCIA card and an
affordable generic store-bought drive. No problems. My primary app is
Logic with a MOTU interface, but I always have an Mbox and PTLE
standing by.
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:31:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Certainly Not..

Nuendo
Cubase
Sonar

etc etc etc..

PT is NOT the only way by any stretch.


<gerrymcc@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:q4ESe.7456$R5.1003@news.indigo.ie...
> Hello,
>
> I'm hoping to set up a small project studio where I can record small
> groups and the like, and do soundtracks for video. I'm hoping this
> will be technically possible with a high-spec laptop, suitable audio
> interface, a good microphone (I already have a few cheaper ones), and
> software. My budget should be around 5000 euros (less than $7000).
> (I'll also need video equipment/software, but that's a different topic
> I guess.)
>
> Computers are fast now, and the interfaces all seem to have high
> bit/sample rates, so is there any advantage to ProToolsLE software
> (included with a Digi002 rack) over another interface/DAW combination
> like a MOTU 828 Mk2 (which has SMPTE, 8 audio in & out) & Cubase?
> Audio track counts seem almost irrelevant; I mean, ProToolsLE has
> 'only' 32 audio tracks, but when I started out as a musician 30 years
> ago 24 tracks was considered the professional standard.
>
> Many thanks for any advice,
> Gerard
>
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 8:07:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I might say "Yes, PT is the way to go".
I tend not to use digidesign hardware but Protools program is the way to
go....
Every studio can read and write in PT format and, unless you want to isolate
yourself from the rest of the world, you should be able to handle PT files
as well....
I'm not saying that PT is the best software but I am pretty sure that it is
difficult to live without it.
All the studios I know that do not use PT as main recorder (editor or
whatever) have a PT setup in the studio, just in case.
My suggestion is to start with PT and then, after a year, make up your mind
and, if you want, swich to another program...

To spend less than a digi002 you can use a digi001 with a PCItoPMCIA
adaptor. Or think at something like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Magma-CB2-2-Slot-PCI-expansion-chas...
F.


<gerrymcc@indigo.ie> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:q4ESe.7456$R5.1003@news.indigo.ie...
> Hello,
>
> I'm hoping to set up a small project studio where I can record small
> groups and the like, and do soundtracks for video. I'm hoping this
> will be technically possible with a high-spec laptop, suitable audio
> interface, a good microphone (I already have a few cheaper ones), and
> software. My budget should be around 5000 euros (less than $7000).
> (I'll also need video equipment/software, but that's a different topic
> I guess.)
>
> Computers are fast now, and the interfaces all seem to have high
> bit/sample rates, so is there any advantage to ProToolsLE software
> (included with a Digi002 rack) over another interface/DAW combination
> like a MOTU 828 Mk2 (which has SMPTE, 8 audio in & out) & Cubase?
> Audio track counts seem almost irrelevant; I mean, ProToolsLE has
> 'only' 32 audio tracks, but when I started out as a musician 30 years
> ago 24 tracks was considered the professional standard.
>
> Many thanks for any advice,
> Gerard
>
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 8:43:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

gerrymcc@indigo.ie wrote:

> Hello,

> I'm hoping to set up a small project studio where I can record small
> groups and the like, and do soundtracks for video. I'm hoping this
> will be technically possible with a high-spec laptop

You do not get a high performance multiple disk subsystem with a laptop.
Even without considering that it is highly cost in-efficient it is out
from that tech point of view.

Protools or not, alternatives could be Samplitude, Sound Forge and
Audition could well be a choice that depends also on whether you expect
to co-operate with others - ie. import/export sessions - and if so, on
what they use.

Implicitly "Protools or Other" is also, but not necessarily, a choice
between the PC, ie. windows, platform and the Mac platform and their
different combination of hardware and software costs.


> Gerard


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 8:43:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> You do not get a high performance multiple disk subsystem with a laptop.
> Even without considering that it is highly cost in-efficient it is out
> from that tech point of view.

A few "desktop replacement" laptops can be had with full-speed disks
(which burn battery a lot faster than the slower drives commonly used in
laptops). The other workaround tends to be a fast external drive
attached via firewire (or, possibly, USB2). Depending on how hard you
plan on pushing it, this may be an adequate solution.

The cost issue is a matter of how much portability matters to you.

(I've got a tower machine as serious workstation, and picked up a laptop
as a special-purpose system ... which actually spends most of its time
as my jukebox machine.)
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 8:43:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<bayareamusician@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125867351.083336.176360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I think you should consider your objectives and envision what you might
> be doing in the future and base your hardware and software decisions on
> that.
>
> Some elements in your post spawn these assessments:
>
> 1. Working with other people.
>
> If you start from scratch any software will work. However, what if the
> clients want to finish the project elsewhere? Also, somebody might
> bring you an unfinished Pro Tools project. My recommendation is to use
> any software you want, but have PTLE hardware and software available,
> e.g, Mbox. I don't know about M-powered, but I have the Mbox and people
> have brought HD projects to me sans plug-ins. PTLE opened it and we
> finished the songs. Transferring a non-PT project to PT is a bit more
> difficult, but consider an application that has OMF output. You'll lose
> plug-in and maybe some automation compatibility, but at least OMF keeps
> the audio in sync.
>
> 2. Video
>
> How do you plan to work with video? In my experience, people have given
> me OMF files from Final Cut. I never used PT for OMF because PT
> requires the US$500 Digitranslator utility. I used Digital Performer,
> but it really doesn't matter which app you use as long as you can open
> OMF, work on the audio, then give the client a stereo AIFF (or WAV)
> file to import into their video app.
>
> 3. Laptop
>
> I use a Powerbook, but I never record multitrack onto the internal
> drive. It can't handle it. Use an external FW or USB2 drive and
> everything will be fine. I use USB2 with a generic PCMCIA card and an
> affordable generic store-bought drive. No problems. My primary app is
> Logic with a MOTU interface, but I always have an Mbox and PTLE
> standing by.
>

Good advice. I had a Digi 001 that I was using with PTLE & Nuendo software.
As far as Native goes - with my LIMITED CHOPS - I can definitely make better
sounding mixes with Nuendo than LE(I'm on that side of that argument as far
as LE goes) but it's great to have PTLE available to bring some stuff home &
work in PT if you need to. I actually prefer recording & working in the edit
window of PTLE than Nuendo. That said I got rid of the 001 & now have a Lynx
Two A card with Nuendo but think I will get at least an M Box to have that
available to me as the above poster suggested.
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 9:06:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

My possibly unpopular 2 cents.

I've been using Cakewalk stuff forever and it works for me. Sonar 4 has
pleased me and my clients greatly. Great integration with Reason and Sound
Forge. Had a Pro Tools setup for awhile and couldn't get any work
done--certainly my own fault for not trying harder. I've been able to
import work from other studios as track-by-track wav files and that seems
to work out pretty well. Anyways, Sonar gets the job done here and I
haven't discovered any bugs or hit any creative walls yet. It does
everything I'm trying to do in audio and MIDI. Looks good, feels good.

regards

Art
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 9:34:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<gerrymcc@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:q4ESe.7456$R5.1003@news.indigo.ie...
> Hello,
>
> I'm hoping to set up a small project studio where I can record small
> groups and the like, and do soundtracks for video. I'm hoping this
> will be technically possible with a high-spec laptop, suitable audio
> interface, a good microphone (I already have a few cheaper ones), and
> software. My budget should be around 5000 euros (less than $7000).
> (I'll also need video equipment/software, but that's a different topic
> I guess.)
>
> Computers are fast now, and the interfaces all seem to have high
> bit/sample rates, so is there any advantage to ProToolsLE software
> (included with a Digi002 rack) over another interface/DAW combination
> like a MOTU 828 Mk2 (which has SMPTE, 8 audio in & out) & Cubase?
> Audio track counts seem almost irrelevant; I mean, ProToolsLE has
> 'only' 32 audio tracks, but when I started out as a musician 30 years
> ago 24 tracks was considered the professional standard.
>
> Many thanks for any advice,
> Gerard


The main advantage of the ProTools LE-based systems is their file
compatibility with the big TDM ProTools setups as well as the associated
reputation of a de facto industry standard. Unless, however, you intend to
start the projects in your studio and then take them to larger
ProTools-based studios for overdubs and/or mixing, there's no reason not to
consider other DAWs. They generally offer more bang for buck and are more
flexible in terms of interfacing options.

Predrag
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 11:06:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Federico" <plokmichael@tiscali.it> wrote in message
news:ZYESe.14734$O6.848044@news3.tin.it...
> I might say "Yes, PT is the way to go".
> I tend not to use digidesign hardware but Protools program is the way to
> go....
> Every studio can read and write in PT format and, unless you want to
isolate
> yourself from the rest of the world, you should be able to handle PT files
> as well....
> I'm not saying that PT is the best software but I am pretty sure that it
is
> difficult to live without it.
> All the studios I know that do not use PT as main recorder (editor or
> whatever) have a PT setup in the studio, just in case.
> My suggestion is to start with PT and then, after a year, make up your
mind
> and, if you want, swich to another program...


What you're describing is area-specific and mostly relevant to commercial
studios. Even in your area where everybody has ProTools because everybody
else has ProTools it's entirely possible for a project studio to do just
fine if it doesn't depend on collaboration with other facilities. Actually,
just having something else and not what everybody else has can sometimes
bring clients to a studio, especially in a denser market.

And then, having a ProTools system is not the only way to transfer audio
files recorded in ProTools.

Predrag



>
> To spend less than a digi002 you can use a digi001 with a PCItoPMCIA
> adaptor. Or think at something like:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/Magma-CB2-2-Slot-PCI-expansion-chas...
W0QQitemZ5236838317QQcategoryZ31534QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> F.
>
>
> <gerrymcc@indigo.ie> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:q4ESe.7456$R5.1003@news.indigo.ie...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm hoping to set up a small project studio where I can record small
> > groups and the like, and do soundtracks for video. I'm hoping this
> > will be technically possible with a high-spec laptop, suitable audio
> > interface, a good microphone (I already have a few cheaper ones), and
> > software. My budget should be around 5000 euros (less than $7000).
> > (I'll also need video equipment/software, but that's a different topic
> > I guess.)
> >
> > Computers are fast now, and the interfaces all seem to have high
> > bit/sample rates, so is there any advantage to ProToolsLE software
> > (included with a Digi002 rack) over another interface/DAW combination
> > like a MOTU 828 Mk2 (which has SMPTE, 8 audio in & out) & Cubase?
> > Audio track counts seem almost irrelevant; I mean, ProToolsLE has
> > 'only' 32 audio tracks, but when I started out as a musician 30 years
> > ago 24 tracks was considered the professional standard.
> >
> > Many thanks for any advice,
> > Gerard
> >
>
>
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 11:25:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I didn't want to "glorify" PT. I am a PT user from 1992, I like the program
and I'm used to it. I do not like digidesign market politics (is that the
word?).
Some years ago I bought a PT TDM I am running on my Mac G3 (OS9.2). I got an
ADAT bridge and some third party converters. No FW, no USB. Now my upgrades
are on buying mix and dsp farms that, being TDM discontinued, are becoming
cheaper. Same things for plugins (remember, there is fxpansion for vst
plugins).
Since I do not need 96KHz (who really need it?) I have a good working audio
workstation and swiching for anything different it would be only a
complicate thing.
Studios I know using Nuendo or DP are now buying protools, both for PC or
for Mac. I am not saying that they are right or wrong but it is a thing that
is happening.
IMHO you can start a home/project studio using the programs you like most
but within 1 year you may start wanting to use protools...
F.

P.S.: digi 002 doas not convince me at all, I don't know why... but I do not
want to rely on FW....


"Rich" <dizNOSPAM@funkydory.ca> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:frSdnaS6Ke4Gs4beRVn-vg@rogers.com...
> The biggest issue I have with ProTools is its incompatibility with
anything
> else. Digi gouge you for everything. In order to make your files
> compatible with non-ProTools systems, you need DigiTranslator to create
OMF
> files. Some manufacturers include this in the system. Digi want $500 for
> it. That's after spending thousands on a system. I wish I didn't need to
> spend another $60 on a VSTi wrapper too.
>
> Everything that you get for PT costs a fortune.
>
> Don't hold your breath for support from them either.
>
> I ordered an M-Box a couple of months ago so I could work with files on my
> Powerbook when my HD system is unavailable. My local supplier only had an
> M-Box with v.6.4 on, and I needed 6.9 to run on Tiger. In order for me not
> to lose out on a complete upgrade path, I didn't want to start on v.6.4.
6.9
> is out, and that's what I should start with unless I'm getting a great
> price. It took Digi 2 months to get a CD to my supplier! My supplier
cc'ed
> me on all the emails he sent ot Digi chasing up the whereabouts of this
> upgrade and he was really given the runaround. We may not be the biggest
> customer Digi has ever seen, but you can guarantee we won't be
recommending
> it in future if they can't provide a reasonable level of service. To add
> salt to the wound, they release the M-Box 2 just as I take delivery of my
> full priced M-Box. Good job the money isn't coming out of my pocket, cos
> I'd be really pissed then.
>
>
>
>
> R
>
> <gerrymcc@indigo.ie> wrote in message
> news:q4ESe.7456$R5.1003@news.indigo.ie...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm hoping to set up a small project studio where I can record small
> > groups and the like, and do soundtracks for video. I'm hoping this
> > will be technically possible with a high-spec laptop, suitable audio
> > interface, a good microphone (I already have a few cheaper ones), and
> > software. My budget should be around 5000 euros (less than $7000).
> > (I'll also need video equipment/software, but that's a different topic
> > I guess.)
> >
> > Computers are fast now, and the interfaces all seem to have high
> > bit/sample rates, so is there any advantage to ProToolsLE software
> > (included with a Digi002 rack) over another interface/DAW combination
> > like a MOTU 828 Mk2 (which has SMPTE, 8 audio in & out) & Cubase?
> > Audio track counts seem almost irrelevant; I mean, ProToolsLE has
> > 'only' 32 audio tracks, but when I started out as a musician 30 years
> > ago 24 tracks was considered the professional standard.
> >
> > Many thanks for any advice,
> > Gerard
> >
>
>
September 4, 2005 11:52:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Danny

Let me know what problems you have with Logic. I may be able to help.

I've been using it for 4 years and I'm still learning! But I love it!

I'm currently still with Version 5.5 on PC, but seriously considering buying
a MAC and version 7 as Apple are doing a £300 cashback deal until end Nov.
--
Lynn
Wobbly Music
"Supporting the Mature Artist"
=============================
http://www.wobblymusic.net
Latest Release... "Friends" by John McKeon
Order your copy now and get 2 FREE bonus tracks!
http://www.johnmckeon.wobblymusic.net



"Danny Taddei" <palmtreedreamer@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1125851943.550399.210520@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I just dropped a bundle on the new pro logic 7and couldn't make it work
> for me to save my life. I saw it demo'd at the apple store but when I
> got it installed it was like trying to speak greak. I even read the
> manual :-)
>
> What fits with one person doesn't always fit someone else!
>
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 4:31:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Rich wrote:
> The biggest issue I have with ProTools is its incompatibility with anything
> else.

If you simply use BWV audio files, you are compatible with virtually
everything.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
September 5, 2005 4:31:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Putting those BMV's together is the issue. When you have a bunch of files
named Bass001 through Bass 321 etc, it takes a gazillion years to piece
together a song. Exporting each track works, but is very time consuming,
especially considering that ProTools doesn't let you bounce in anything but
real time.

R

"Bob Olhsson" <olh@hyperback.com> wrote in message
news:ElMSe.184887$5N3.112912@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Rich wrote:
>> The biggest issue I have with ProTools is its incompatibility with
>> anything else.
>
> If you simply use BWV audio files, you are compatible with virtually
> everything.
>
> --
> Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
> Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
> Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
> 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 4:31:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Rich" <dizNOSPAM@funkydory.ca> wrote in message
news:jMKdnUEPA6owBYbeRVn-vA@rogers.com...
> Putting those BMV's together is the issue. When you have a bunch of files
> named Bass001 through Bass 321 etc, it takes a gazillion years to piece
> together a song. Exporting each track works, but is very time consuming,
> especially considering that ProTools doesn't let you bounce in anything
but
> real time.
>

Yeah you have to budget that in your time for sure.
>


Olhsson" <olh@hyperback.com> wrote in message
> news:ElMSe.184887$5N3.112912@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > Rich wrote:
> >> The biggest issue I have with ProTools is its incompatibility with
> >> anything else.
> >
> > If you simply use BWV audio files, you are compatible with virtually
> > everything.
> >
> > --
> > Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
> > Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
> > Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
> > 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
>
>
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 5:36:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 22:30:40 -0230, Rich wrote:

> Putting those BMV's together is the issue. When you have a bunch of files
> named Bass001 through Bass 321 etc, it takes a gazillion years to piece
> together a song. Exporting each track works, but is very time consuming,
> especially considering that ProTools doesn't let you bounce in anything
> but real time.

I think at somewhere about bass 007, I would either send the bass player
home to practice, or else hire a real bass player.
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 1:41:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 13:06:26 -0400, Predrag Trpkov wrote
(in article <dff9ii$a92$1@ss405.t-com.hr>):

> What you're describing is area-specific and mostly relevant to commercial
> studios. Even in your area where everybody has ProTools because everybody
> else has ProTools it's entirely possible for a project studio to do just fine

> if it doesn't depend on collaboration with other facilities. Actually, just
> having something else and not what everybody else has can sometimes bring
> clients to a studio, especially in a denser market.
>
> And then, having a ProTools system is not the only way to transfer audio
> files recorded in ProTools.
>
> Predrag

Right. i have clients who record on whatever system they have and bring the
project to me to mix. They make complete .wav files of each track and drop
those on CD or DVD. I import them into PTLE. Usually, I can drag and drop the
whole file list in one motion to separate tracks on the timeline. The first
time that happened I got an actual woodie.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 1:48:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 13:16:08 -0400, Rich wrote
(in article <frSdnaS6Ke4Gs4beRVn-vg@rogers.com>):

> The biggest issue I have with ProTools is its incompatibility with anything
> else. Digi gouge you for everything. In order to make your files
> compatible with non-ProTools systems, you need DigiTranslator to create OMF
> files. Some manufacturers include this in the system. Digi want $500 for
> it. That's after spending thousands on a system. I wish I didn't need to
> spend another $60 on a VSTi wrapper too.

I'm not having that sort of problem. Do you actually need Digitranslator? We
must be working differently.

> Everything that you get for PT costs a fortune.

Perhaps a hyperbole.

> Don't hold your breath for support from them either.

Again, I haven't had that problem. When the cable went up in my 002, I had
one in two days.

> I ordered an M-Box a couple of months ago so I could work with files on my
> Powerbook when my HD system is unavailable. My local supplier only had an
> M-Box with v.6.4 on, and I needed 6.9 to run on Tiger. In order for me not
> to lose out on a complete upgrade path, I didn't want to start on v.6.4. 6.9
> is out, and that's what I should start with unless I'm getting a great
> price. It took Digi 2 months to get a CD to my supplier! My supplier cc'ed
> me on all the emails he sent ot Digi chasing up the whereabouts of this
> upgrade and he was really given the runaround. We may not be the biggest
> customer Digi has ever seen, but you can guarantee we won't be recommending
> it in future if they can't provide a reasonable level of service. To add
> salt to the wound, they release the M-Box 2 just as I take delivery of my
> full priced M-Box. Good job the money isn't coming out of my pocket, cos
> I'd be really pissed then.

Dunno. Was 6.9 PTLE even available at the time? I think it came out first for
the TDM systems, but I might be wrong on that.

I have not had run around experiences with Digi. I have been on hold a long
time on several occasions, but when help arrived it was good help and got me
going again.

Regards,

Ty Ford





-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 1:53:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 20:48:40 -0400, Rich wrote
(in article <jMKdnUEPA6owBYbeRVn-vA@rogers.com>):

> Putting those BMV's together is the issue. When you have a bunch of files
> named Bass001 through Bass 321 etc, it takes a gazillion years to piece
> together a song. Exporting each track works, but is very time consuming,
> especially considering that ProTools doesn't let you bounce in anything but
> real time.
>
> R

Try grabbing all of the elements on each track all the way back to 0 and
consolidating each track. Name it whatever you want. Export it as a .wav
file. Done. :) 

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 11:55:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

If you have a few minutes, why not download n-track from fasoft.com.
Its very inexpensive, easy to use, and provides good results. It
supports both directx and vst plugins.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 12:54:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jona Vark" <noemail@all.com> wrote:
>
> Certainly Not..
>
> Nuendo
> Cubase
> Sonar
>
> etc etc etc..
>
> PT is NOT the only way by any stretch.



Doing a lot of audio-for-video work with those lately, are you?

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 1:09:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Fortunately or unfortunately, Pro-Tools seems to have a lock as a
standard in the pro area of production. It seems young budding
engineers can't gain any employment if they do not have Pro-Tools
experience.
keivin Doyle
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 1:18:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<gerrymcc@indigo.ie> wrote:
>
> I'm hoping this will be technically possible with a high-spec laptop,

I use a laptop for that kind of work and it's fine, within reasonable
limits.

For really simple stuff I'm getting by with the internal drive
(upgrading it from 4200 rpm to 5400 helped a lot). By simple I mean
only a dozen or so tracks with maybe half that many plugs. For anything
more than that I go to an external Firewire drive. The internal drive
might well be able to handle more, but I've never bothered to find out.

A desktop machine is a lot more cost effective than a laptop though.
Since you're budget constrained, you may want to consider how badly you
really need a latop.



> Computers are fast now, and the interfaces all seem to have high
> bit/sample rates, so is there any advantage to ProToolsLE software
> (included with a Digi002 rack) over another interface/DAW combination
> like a MOTU 828 Mk2 (which has SMPTE, 8 audio in & out) & Cubase?

Mostly that depends on two things:

1. Your clients
How are they delivering material to you? How do they want it sent back?
In my case, most of what I get is OMF files from Avid. That made Pro
Tools the obvious choice for me. DV toolkit provides tools for cutting
to SMPTE timecide, file exchange with picture editors, and even a decent
little ADR application. The fact that Pro Tools will playback a DV or
Quicktime video stream also eliminates the need to lock up a tape
machine or a separate sub-system for picture.

Bear in mind that video playback puts a much heavier load on the drive
and cpu, so don't cheap out on the computer if you plan to go native.

2. The way you work.
If you're locking your audio editor to a separate video playback system,
either internal or external, the choice of DAW is less critical (as long
as it has the ability to sync up and stay locked).

In my case, I sometimes book a commercial room to track drums or other
room-sensitive sources, so again, Pro Tools was an easy choice because
of its practically universal availability. If you're working in
isolation, that's not a big concern.



For what I do (audio post) an Mbox with DV Toolkit and a MOTU MTP-AV
were all I needed to start getting work done. There were probably other
alternatives, but this worked without hassle right out of the box, gave
me compatibility with other facilities, works across both Windows and
Mac platforms, and didn't require a major exercise in discovering which
devices don't like to play nice together.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 6:51:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Lorin David Schultz" <Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca> wrote in message
news:2PcTe.217484$9A2.175820@edtnps89...
>
> "Jona Vark" <noemail@all.com> wrote:
> >
> > Certainly Not..
> >
> > Nuendo
> > Cubase
> > Sonar
> >
> > etc etc etc..
> >
> > PT is NOT the only way by any stretch.
>
>
>
> Doing a lot of audio-for-video work with those lately, are you?


I use NUENDO for all film / TV and commercials done here. No problems
whatsoever. PT doesn't really compare to Nuendo in my book.. And I hate Digi
/ Avid with a passion.

I've also done some finishing with Sonar in the past but no longer use it.

Any other questions?







>
> --
> "It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
> - Lorin David Schultz
> in the control room
> making even bad news sound good
>
> (Remove spamblock to reply)
>
>
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 9:30:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jona Vark" <noemail@all.com> wrote:
>
> I use NUENDO for all film / TV and commercials done here. No problems
> whatsoever. PT doesn't really compare to Nuendo in my book.. And I
> hate Digi / Avid with a passion.
>
> I've also done some finishing with Sonar in the past but no longer
> use it.
>
> Any other questions?



Sure, since you're asking, thanks!

I'm just curious why you choose to remain anonymous? Also, where is the
"here" you referred to regarding film/tv work being done? Finally, why
the big hate for Digi?

FWIW, I think Nuendo is pretty cool too. I dunno about the others for
post -- maybe they're fine. I honestly have no idea. I asked about
your use of them because your posts give no indication of your area of
expertise. It's hard to know who is writing from a position of being
able to evaluate a product's actual suitability for a task, and who is
just guessing. For reasons I don't understand, a lot of newbies around
here feel compelled to just automatically recommend whatever product
they're using, whether they have any experience with the intended use or
not. Maybe it's a way of validating their own choices.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
September 6, 2005 10:35:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Ty Ford" <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:o 6udnVN058Us0YHeRVn-2g@comcast.com...

> I'm not having that sort of problem. Do you actually need Digitranslator?
> We
> must be working differently.

No, I don't have to have it. I can indeed consolidate. But its a bit of a
mickey mouse way of working.

>> Everything that you get for PT costs a fortune.
>
> Perhaps a hyperbole.

I call $500 expensive for a plugin that other manufacturers (certainly
Steinberg) give away for free.

>> Don't hold your breath for support from them either.
>
> Again, I haven't had that problem. When the cable went up in my 002, I had
> one in two days.

Well then I guess we live in different parts of the world. In fact, I feel
that it is part of the problem. We are not high volume buyers, so they
don't care about us. Though the Control 24 would seem to be evidence that
they don't care about anyone. Features promised and never implemented, and
now obselete.

> Dunno. Was 6.9 PTLE even available at the time? I think it came out first
> for
> the TDM systems, but I might be wrong on that.

TDM was released first. However PTLE with Tiger support (6.9.2) has been
out since June.

> I have not had run around experiences with Digi. I have been on hold a
> long
> time on several occasions, but when help arrived it was good help and got
> me
> going again.

Good for you. I'm starting to like ProTools as a product, but I often find
myself saying "one more reason not to buy ProTools" way too much.



R.
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 7:33:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Gerry,
€5,000 is pushin' it a bit.
Pro Tools will play video by the way, though you can't edit video on
it. Personally I prefer the desk top option rather than the lap top. I
use both but the extra drives in the desk top, cheaper ram, and the
fact that it seems to be generally more sturdy does it for me.

In Ireland, generally, people use Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic or Digital
Performer. Pro Tools is more useful if you are dealing with recorded
audio. Cubase is better for MIDI and software instruments. Logic Audio
is good for both and is used by quite a few Producer types. People who
write music for film and video seem to use Digital Performer quite a
bit.

Do you have a console? etc.

Send us a mail with your spec. I'll take a look at it if you like.

Cheers,
DS
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 1:23:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Lorin David Schultz" <Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca> wrote in message
news:2PcTe.217484$9A2.175820@edtnps89...
>
> "Jona Vark" <noemail@all.com> wrote:
> >
> > Certainly Not..
> >
> > Nuendo
> > Cubase
> > Sonar
> >
> > etc etc etc..
> >
> > PT is NOT the only way by any stretch.
>
>
>
> Doing a lot of audio-for-video work with those lately, are you?
yes.. tons.


>
> --
> "It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
> - Lorin David Schultz
> in the control room
> making even bad news sound good
>
> (Remove spamblock to reply)
>
>
!