More M-S micing questions

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WJ <waltj@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I've never tried M-S micing, and would like to experiment with it. I'm
>wondering about the mics used for this. Is it standard practice to use a
>matched set of multi-pattern mics, or are mis-matched mics sometimes used?
>What microphones have been found to be good for this? I have a KSM44 on my
>short wish list, which would give me a figure-8 pattern, but buying two of
>them would mean sacrificing some other goodies....

If the mikes are mismatched, the response will change as you move to the
edge of the soundfield. That's not always a bad thing. Using a condenser
mike as the center and a ribbon figure-8 can give you reduced hall ambience
at high frequencies and still an okay image up front.

Try it.

>Life is full of hard choices, but the ones about which microphones to buy
>seem harder than normal.

Spend all your money on two good small diaphragm multipattern mikes and
stop worrying so much.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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martin griffith <martingriffith@XXyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>I'm waiting until the Oktava MK-012 has a fig 8 capsule. Hope it's not
>too long from now

I doubt it'll happen. It is very, very difficult to make a good small
diaphragm figure-8. Schoeps is the only company that I know of that has
actually succeeded in it. (Sennheiser made one in their MKH series, but
with even more goofy tricks than usual).

Now that McKay is selling these Chinese-made Oktava clones under the
Oktava name, the Tula factory guys are probably tearing their hair out
just trying to deal with that, let alone actually make any new products.

And there is _no_ chance that anything like that is going to come from
McKay's clone folks.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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On 9/5/05 1:22 PM, in article dfhutb$md$1@panix2.panix.com, "Scott Dorsey"
<kludge@panix.com> wrote:

> WJ <waltj@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I've never tried M-S micing, and would like to experiment with it. I'm
>> wondering about the mics used for this. Is it standard practice to use a
>> matched set of multi-pattern mics, or are mis-matched mics sometimes used?
>> What microphones have been found to be good for this? I have a KSM44 on my
>> short wish list, which would give me a figure-8 pattern, but buying two of
>> them would mean sacrificing some other goodies....
>
> If the mikes are mismatched, the response will change as you move to the
> edge of the soundfield. That's not always a bad thing. Using a condenser
> mike as the center and a ribbon figure-8 can give you reduced hall ambience
> at high frequencies and still an okay image up front.
>
> Try it.
>
>> Life is full of hard choices, but the ones about which microphones to buy
>> seem harder than normal.
>
> Spend all your money on two good small diaphragm multipattern mikes and
> stop worrying so much.

Whatever happened to the SD AKG stereo mics?

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On 9/5/05 4:47 PM, in article
1125953227.293681.6390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "David Satz"
<DSatz@msn.com> wrote:

> A small-diaphragm AKG stereo model C 34 was sold during the 1980s,
> alongside the large-diaphragm C 422. I don't remember seeing anything
> more recent than that, though.

There were two flavors of the SD.. One was a twist-top dual multipattern
capsule model.
The other was essentially two CK1 capsules in a twist-top mount for
adjustable XY.

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and the KM120 from Neumann is a Schoeps alternative. It is a single
diaphram capsule, also, like the Schoeps.

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Thanks for the information and encouragement, everyone. If I accidently
invent any revolutionalry new techniques while I'm messing around, I'll let
you know <g>.

Cheers,
Walt

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WJ wrote:
> Thanks for the information and encouragement, everyone. If I accidently
> invent any revolutionalry new techniques while I'm messing around, I'll let
> you know <g>.

If you have three channels available, three pencil cardiods
that are matched can give the best MS results. Face one
forward, face one to the left above it and one to the right
below it, all three diaphragms on the same vertical
centerline. Use the forward as M and the difference between
the two sides as S.

Then

L = M + (LS - RS)

R = M - (LS - RS)

On the horizontal plane you will have TOA coherence and no
comb filtering. The matching will give reasonably frequency
independant localization enhanced by the close symmetery of
LS and RS. Not exactly, but about the best you can do.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

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David Spearritt <djspearritt@gmail.com> wrote:
>Not sure what response curves you are looking at Scott, but the KM120
>has fantastic constant frequency independent uniform directivity all
>the way through 8K, and 16K still has an absolute null. It is much more
>consistent and independent of frequency than the KM140.
>http://www.neumann.com/infopool/mics/menue.php?ProdID=km100#

Listen to it. Record someone in the near field talking into the side
of the mike and into the front. Then try the same thing with a U87.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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David Spearritt <djspearritt@gmail.com> wrote:
>Done this many times. I have 2 KM120's used in Blumlein often. The
>directivity, uniformity, and nulls beats a U87 hands down, which I also
>have. The KM120 FR curve specs for null necking are superior to the MK8
>at 16kHz as well. You must have heard a crook one.

I'll give it a try again, then. I was not at all impressed with the thing
when I used it, but admittedly that was quite a few years ago. My experience
with it was that the null changed position with frequency a lot.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."