6-man tablebases with Fritz8

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Hi,

Just downloaded all KRPPKR-files from
ftp://ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt/TB/42p/

I have all 3-,4- and 5-man bases working fine.

Now I did not succeed with KRPPKR. I Did not find promotion cases for
KQRPKR, this would be also needeed? Can anybody tell if this is
already published and where to get it?

Do I need another promotion cases or is KQRPKR enough? Should I have
KQQRKR also? I did not find that either.

Is there anybody, who can do 6-man tablebases with Fritz8? Can you
give any advise to make it work? I have updated my Fritz8 few monts
ago.

I would appreciate very much your comments on this matter.

Regards,
Tykki
20 answers Last reply
More about tablebases fritz8
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    tykitys@hotmail.com (Tykki) wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:

    > I have all 3-,4- and 5-man bases working fine.
    >
    > Now I did not succeed with KRPPKR.

    IIRC you need to update your Fritz interface to be able to use the
    six man tables.

    Unfortunatly ChessBase leaves us stumbling in the dark about the
    issues their various updates fix, but check nevertheless if your
    version is up-to-date.


    --
    CeeBee

    "Eppur si muove!"
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    Tykki wrote:

    > Is there anybody, who can do 6-man tablebases with Fritz8? Can you
    > give any advise to make it work?

    Yes -- but I went the ChessBase way and bought the Endgame Turbo 2
    DVD. If I recall, it contains updates to Fritz ... and I strongly
    suspect those updates are for 6-man endgames.

    I have no idea if these updates are available separately.

    But even with Fritz 6 it was possible to do 6-man endgame databases
    -- you just had to use another engine instead of Fritz. Try
    downloading the latest Crafty engine from ChessBase -- I'm fairly
    certain that will work.

    --
    Anders Thulin ath*algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~ath
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    Anders Thulin <ath_no_spam_please@algonet.se> wrote in
    rec.games.chess.computer:


    > I have no idea if these updates are available separately.


    http://www.fritzserver.org/updates/gui8.iup
    might work.

    For the OP: Put this file in the chessprogam8-directory, and
    doubleclick on iupgrade.exe.

    --
    CeeBee

    "Eppur si muove!"
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    Before I do this how many 6 man tablebases have been done and in total how
    much disc space do they take up?
    Komputer Korner

    "CeeBee" <ceebeechester@start.com.au> wrote in message
    news:Xns9653AFCEE18D6ceebeechesterstartco@195.121.6.84...
    > Anders Thulin <ath_no_spam_please@algonet.se> wrote in
    > rec.games.chess.computer:
    >
    >
    > > I have no idea if these updates are available separately.
    >
    >
    > http://www.fritzserver.org/updates/gui8.iup
    > might work.
    >
    > For the OP: Put this file in the chessprogam8-directory, and
    > doubleclick on iupgrade.exe.
    >
    > --
    > CeeBee
    >
    > "Eppur si muove!"
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    The way it works is you need all the minor and major piece endgame
    tablebases corresponding to that x no. of pieces before you can do any
    involving a pawn because the pawn always can promote. Therefore you need
    KRNNKR,KRNBKR, KRBBKR,KRNQKR,KRNRKR,KRBRKR,KRRRKR,KRBQKR,KRRQKR, and the
    KRQQKR before you can build the KRPPKR tablebase.
    Komputer Korner


    "Tykki" <tykitys@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:77966062.0505102359.66e27d92@posting.google.com...
    > Hi,
    >
    > Just downloaded all KRPPKR-files from
    > ftp://ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt/TB/42p/
    >
    > I have all 3-,4- and 5-man bases working fine.
    >
    > Now I did not succeed with KRPPKR. I Did not find promotion cases for
    > KQRPKR, this would be also needeed? Can anybody tell if this is
    > already published and where to get it?
    >
    > Do I need another promotion cases or is KQRPKR enough? Should I have
    > KQQRKR also? I did not find that either.
    >
    > Is there anybody, who can do 6-man tablebases with Fritz8? Can you
    > give any advise to make it work? I have updated my Fritz8 few monts
    > ago.
    >
    > I would appreciate very much your comments on this matter.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Tykki
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    "Komputer Korner" <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> wrote in
    rec.games.chess.computer:

    > Before I do this how many 6 man tablebases have been done and in
    > total how much disc space do they take up?
    > Komputer Korner


    Have a look at Hyatt's FTP-site the OP mentioned, and check out the
    sizes and names. Guess: about 450 GB until now?

    --
    CeeBee

    "Eppur si muove!"
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    CeeBee wrote:

    > http://www.fritzserver.org/updates/gui8.iup
    > might work.

    The blurb on the DVD package claims it contains an engine
    upgrade for Fritz 8, ... but when I actually look it over, the
    only obvious engine I find is Tablebase.eng, which the README.TXT
    file claims is for ChessBase 8. Ah, the confusion I felt ... it's
    all coming back ...

    --
    Anders Thulin ath*algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~ath
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    Anders Thulin <ath_no_spam_please@algonet.se> wrote in
    rec.games.chess.computer:

    > The blurb on the DVD package claims it contains an engine
    > upgrade for Fritz 8, ... but when I actually look it over, the
    > only obvious engine I find is Tablebase.eng, which the README.TXT
    > file claims is for ChessBase 8. Ah, the confusion I felt ... it's
    > all coming back ...


    That's the TB 3.0 engine for reading 6 man in ChessBase 8.

    ***

    I'd wish ChessBase not only took the precious time to develop all
    those patches and fixes and updates, and make them available, but
    also the even more precious time to tell
    - which one contains what;
    - for which program it is an update or upgrade;
    - where it is available - on their chess server (only), on their
    website (only)of on CB Magazine (only);
    - what to do if it can't be obtained by either way.

    I find ChessBase software excellent, but I'm getting a bit tired of
    the logical stream of posts asking about a forest full of unknown
    versions, misty update requirements, failed upgrades and where, when
    how and why.

    I wonder if it's really that difficult - trying to prevent
    unnecessary support questions by giving your customers the
    information to handle things themselves.


    --
    CeeBee

    "Eppur si muove!"
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    Hi,

    I checked my tablebases with program Wilhelm
    (www.geocities.com/rba_schach2000) and I notised that I'm missing all
    41 and 41p tablebases.

    I downloaded missing ones (ftp://ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt/TB/) and
    updated GUI8.iup (http://www.fritzserver.org/updates/gui8.iup) to
    Fritz8.

    Now it works fine! Fritz8 doesn't need the promotion tables. I think
    it needs all 5-man tables to work with 6-man tables (?). At least
    KRPPKR is running now fine without any other 6-man bases.

    Thank you all for your help!

    Regards,
    Tykki
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    tykitys@hotmail.com (Tykki) wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:


    > Now it works fine! Fritz8 doesn't need the promotion tables. I
    > think it needs all 5-man tables to work with 6-man tables (?).

    I'm no expert on tablebases, but I don't think you need them to make
    a "higher" TB run. You will no doubt get incorrect DTM results from
    an x-man tablebase when (all or some of) the x-1 is/are missing.

    The GUI update however was necessary. Without it the 6 man won't
    run.

    --
    CeeBee

    "Eppur si muove!"
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    "Tykki" <tykitys@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:77966062.0505131100.eaf40f6@posting.google.com...
    > Hi,
    >
    > I checked my tablebases with program Wilhelm
    > (www.geocities.com/rba_schach2000) and I notised that I'm missing all
    > 41 and 41p tablebases.
    >
    > I downloaded missing ones (ftp://ftp.cis.uab.edu/pub/hyatt/TB/) and
    > updated GUI8.iup (http://www.fritzserver.org/updates/gui8.iup) to
    > Fritz8.
    >
    > Now it works fine! Fritz8 doesn't need the promotion tables. I think
    > it needs all 5-man tables to work with 6-man tables (?). At least
    > KRPPKR is running now fine without any other 6-man bases.
    >
    > Thank you all for your help!
    >
    > Regards,
    > Tykki

    How will the KRPPKR know what to do when a pawn promotes? When I build the 5
    man tablebases, the Chessbase generator always reports whether the non pawn
    tablebases have been built and if not it builds those first.

    Komputer Korner
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    I must add few words to clarify that actually I'm not trying to make
    new tablebases but I'm trying to use those ones that already exist.

    Regards,
    Tykki
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    "Komputer Korner" <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> skrev i melding
    news:nv6dnQaI_O246B_fRVn-uw@rogers.com...
    > Before I do this how many 6 man tablebases have been done and in total how
    > much disc space do they take up?
    > Komputer Korner

    I have missed your postings ever since you left rgcc a few years back - I'm
    very pleased to see that you are still alive and (hopefully) will continue
    to share
    your knowledge in this group. Welcome back!

    A few words about Chesslib's ftp-server, hosting the 3-, 4- and 5-man
    Nalimov table bases:

    It is probably the fastest available download site for these files - even to
    Canada and US. To Europe and the rest of world - now doubt,
    absolutely the fastest available!

    I'm currently working on a little project: Make it possible to map the
    ptp-servers 3-, 4- 5- and 6-man tables as a drive - in other words, you can
    use the end game bases as they where installed on your own computer.
    (without having to download the huge files).

    -af-
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    I forgot to the link:

    http://behind.chesslib.no/dl_showsub.asp?cat_id=14&cat=Nalimov

    -af-
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    * Komputer Korner <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> (06:57) schrieb:

    > How will the KRPPKR know what to do when a pawn promotes? When I build the 5
    > man tablebases, the Chessbase generator always reports whether the non pawn
    > tablebases have been built and if not it builds those first.

    Nalimov-Tables are about positions, they never know what to do. When you
    promote a pawn the position no longer is in KRPPKR, but in KRQPKR or
    elsewhere.

    Whenever the generator has to compute the value of position, where there
    is a pawn ready to promote it has to look a the tablebase containing
    the resulting position.

    mfg, simon .... please correct me
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    Well that means that before you can use the KRPPKR tablebase, you need to
    have the subordinate pawnless tablebases already done so that when you are
    promoting a pawn in the KRPPKR base, the program will know to look up the
    appropriate subordinate tablebase. A previous poster said he was using the
    KRPPKR tablebase without having the subordinate KRQQKR,KRQRKR...etc
    tablebases I don't see how that is possible.
    "Simon Krahnke" <overlord@gmx.li> wrote in message
    news:87psvtgw98.fsf@xts.gnuu.de...
    > * Komputer Korner <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> (06:57) schrieb:
    >
    > > How will the KRPPKR know what to do when a pawn promotes? When I build
    the 5
    > > man tablebases, the Chessbase generator always reports whether the non
    pawn
    > > tablebases have been built and if not it builds those first.
    >
    > Nalimov-Tables are about positions, they never know what to do. When you
    > promote a pawn the position no longer is in KRPPKR, but in KRQPKR or
    > elsewhere.
    >
    > Whenever the generator has to compute the value of position, where there
    > is a pawn ready to promote it has to look a the tablebase containing
    > the resulting position.
    >
    > mfg, simon .... please correct me
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    * Komputer Korner <kornerNoSpamPlease@rogers.com> (20:34) schrieb:

    > Well that means that before you can use the KRPPKR tablebase, you need to
    > have the subordinate pawnless tablebases already done so that when you are
    > promoting a pawn in the KRPPKR base, the program will know to look up the
    > appropriate subordinate tablebase. A previous poster said he was using the
    > KRPPKR tablebase without having the subordinate KRQQKR,KRQRKR...etc
    > tablebases I don't see how that is possible.

    No, I was explaining the *generator*. You can *use* any tablebase on its
    own. Only when the promotion is actually done, you need the other
    tablebase. When that tablebase is missing, the engine has to search. But
    could use the knowledge from the tablebase as a hint for the search.

    mfg, simon .... l
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    Well, Fritz8 can read from the tablebase that the position is f.e. a
    mate in 46 moves. When the promotion comes, it starts thinking again.
    It is not a problem, because Fritz8 can easily count the position with
    such a big advantage.

    Regards,
    Tykki
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    Tykki <tykitys@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > Well, Fritz8 can read from the tablebase that the position is f.e. a
    > mate in 46 moves. When the promotion comes, it starts thinking again.
    > It is not a problem, because Fritz8 can easily count the position with
    > such a big advantage.

    Not necessarily. Somebody posted here in the last few months or so that
    Fritz is unable to win KNB vs K without tablebases.

    (Anyone who feels the need to express their outrage at this should consult
    the earlier thread; the executive summary is that the engine is designed
    to work with the tablebases so there's no point including lots of special-
    case code as that just increases the bug-count and reduces performance.)


    Dave.

    --
    David Richerby Evil Old-Fashioned Beer (TM): it's
    www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a refreshing lager but it's
    perfect for your grandparents and
    genuinely evil!
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

    * David Richerby <davidr@chiark.greenend.org.uk> (19:29) schrieb:

    > Tykki <tykitys@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >> Well, Fritz8 can read from the tablebase that the position is f.e. a
    >> mate in 46 moves. When the promotion comes, it starts thinking again.
    >> It is not a problem, because Fritz8 can easily count the position with
    >> such a big advantage.
    >
    > Not necessarily. Somebody posted here in the last few months or so that
    > Fritz is unable to win KNB vs K without tablebases.

    Wasn't that about Deep Fritz?

    I'm trying Shredder 7 at Fine#4 (6k1/5N2/5K2/8/8/3B4/8/8 w - - 0 1),
    which is supposed to be a mate in 19. Shredder 7 comes with tablebases
    but I disabled them. At depth 25 it's still lost. With tablebases
    enabled it instantly says Bf5.

    Some other engines prefer the right move even without tablebases.
    Including Fritz 7.

    mfg, simon .... l
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