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Line Out (mixer) to Mic In (camcorder)

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Anonymous
September 14, 2005 3:15:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Everyone, I need your help
My basic question is I am wondering what I need to use to connect a
mixer to a mic input? What I am really trying to do is use a wireless
mic with a typical consumer level camcorder with a mic in. When I run
the mic's line out directly to the camcorder, I get a low frequency
hum. I suspect this has something to do with the line output of the
wireless mic output being balanced and the camcorder mic input being
unbalanced stereo. So I was trying to run the mic output to my mixer
which works great, the output is clear and does not have any
hum...however then I need to take an output from my mixer to the mic in
on the camcorder. I have tried taking the main outputs of the mixer
using an adapter to convert those 1/4 mono cables to a 1/8 stereo jack.
This works however I get a lot of hiss and can hardly turn the volume
on my mixer up which makes sense since the mixer output is hotter than
what a mic input requires. So what should I be doing here? I have
read a lot of other post about connecting resistors to correct the
mixer's out to a mic input, but knowing nothing about electronics, I
reallyj just need something I can purchase. What can I use to
"correct" my mixer output so that I can plug my mixer into this
camcorder's mic in?

Thanks for any ideas, this is driving me crazy. I thought I was past
the stage of asking for "connections" help. I guess I should really
have purchased a more pro level camcorder with a line input.

-Andrew V. Romero
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 4:04:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

--------------
"Do you mean the output from your receiver is "liine" level? If so you
need to pad it down by 40-50db to make it mic level. Almost all
pro-sumer wireless have mic level output. "
--------------
First my disclaimer, I did not purchase the mic and was not consulted
about it before the purchase...it is not a prosumer mic, it is a radio
shack 900mhz mic that has a balanced 1/4 inch hi z output, and a XLR lo
z output. Plugging either of these directly (via adapters) into the
camcorder does not give adequate results.
Unfortunately, the camcorder manual says basically nothing about the
mic input other than ask your panasonic dealer. I would be surprised
if the mic input puts out 3-6 vdc, but that is an interesting bit of
information that I will investigate. I haven't tried plugging any of
my more pro sumer mics (shure sm57) into the camcorder directly yet.
Would this tell me if it is a DC volt at the mic input issue vs a
padding issue?

-Andrew V. Romero
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 5:41:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

lol, hopefully overdrive them instantly doesn't translate to damage
them permanently...
Someone in a video newsgroup pointed me towards some products meant for
this purpose. See
http://www.studio1productions.com/
http://www.signvideo.com/
http://www.beachtek.com/

The studio1productions.com product looks interesting. Now my problem
is that I need one by friday and have never seen these in a music or
electronics store. Perhaps now that I know something like this exist,
I can try tracking it down.

-Andrew V. Romero
Related resources
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 6:46:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Line Out (mixer) to Mic In (camcorder)

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Wed, Sep 14, 2005, 11:15am (EDT-3) From:
rrstudio2@icqmail.com
Hi Everyone, I need your help
      My basic question is I am wondering what I need to use
to connect a mixer to a mic input?

What I am really trying to do is use a wireless mic with a typical
consumer level camcorder with a mic in. When I run the mic's line out
directly to the camcorder, I get a low frequency hum.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Do you mean the output from your receiver is "liine" level? If so you
need to pad it down by 40-50db to make it mic level. Almost all
pro-sumer wireless have mic level output.

You may also be having a problem because the mic input on your camera
puts out 3-6vdc for powering consumer electret microphones and that will
cause hum problems. You'll need a special cable with blocking caps to
elimnate that problem.

I suspect this has something to do with the line output of the wireless
mic output being balanced and the camcorder mic input being unbalanced
stereo. So I was trying to run the mic output to my mixer which works
great, the output is clear and does not have any hum...however then I
need to take an output from my mixer to the mic in on the
camcorder.<<<<<<<<<

Here you will have a line level output signal to mic level input
problem. Using a pad might help but I'm sure it's the dc output at the
mic input that's causing your problem. Check the manual for your
camcorder, does it have any info about dc voltages at the mic input?


Eric
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 7:59:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Re: Line Out (mixer) to Mic In (camcorder)

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Wed, Sep 14, 2005, 12:04pm (EDT-3) From:
rrstudio2@icqmail.com
--------------
"Do you mean the output from your receiver is "liine" level? If so you
need to pad it down by 40-50db to make it mic level. Almost all
pro-sumer wireless have mic level output. "
--------------
First my disclaimer, I did not purchase the mic and was not consulted
about it before the purchase...it is not a prosumer mic, it is a radio
shack 900mhz mic that has a balanced 1/4 inch hi z output, and a XLR lo
z output. Plugging either of these directly (via adapters) into the
camcorder does not give adequate results.
Unfortunately, the camcorder manual says basically nothing about the mic
input other than ask your panasonic dealer.


I would be surprised if the mic input puts out 3-6 vdc, but that is an
interesting bit of information that I will investigate. I haven't tried
plugging any of my more pro sumer mics (shure sm57) into the camcorder
directly yet. Would this tell me if it is a DC volt at the mic input
issue vs a padding issue?
-Andrew V. Romero<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Betcha the 57 works fine as all dynamic mics will with phantom power. As
I said, it's not an issue of level as much as the dc problem.

Eric
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 12:34:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<rrstudio2@icqmail.com> wrote in message news:1126724657.526113.272010@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> --------------
> "Do you mean the output from your receiver is "liine" level? If so you
> need to pad it down by 40-50db to make it mic level. Almost all
> pro-sumer wireless have mic level output. "
> --------------
> First my disclaimer, I did not purchase the mic and was not consulted
> about it before the purchase...it is not a prosumer mic, it is a radio
> shack 900mhz mic that has a balanced 1/4 inch hi z output, and a XLR lo
> z output. Plugging either of these directly (via adapters) into the
> camcorder does not give adequate results.
> Unfortunately, the camcorder manual says basically nothing about the
> mic input other than ask your panasonic dealer. I would be surprised
> if the mic input puts out 3-6 vdc, but that is an interesting bit of
> information that I will investigate. I haven't tried plugging any of
> my more pro sumer mics (shure sm57) into the camcorder directly yet.
> Would this tell me if it is a DC volt at the mic input issue vs a
> padding issue?
>
> -Andrew V. Romero
>


There should be an 'input sensitivity' rating for the mic input jack.
Consumer camcorders are notorious for their need to have an
expremely low (as in millivolts) input on these jacks. Line outputs
will likely overdive them instantly.

DM
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 12:53:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<rrstudio2@icqmail.com> wrote in message news:1126730517.642076.296040@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> lol, hopefully overdrive them instantly doesn't translate to damage
> them permanently...


I am not certain I understand your comment Andy. If a device is
expecting to see low millivolts and you feed it several volts... I can
see no reason not to believe that it wouldn't quite possibly *fry* or
be damaged after a few minutes of this... be careful...

Congrats on and thanks for the links... good info.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com



> Someone in a video newsgroup pointed me towards some products meant for
> this purpose. See
> http://www.studio1productions.com/
> http://www.signvideo.com/
> http://www.beachtek.com/
>
> The studio1productions.com product looks interesting. Now my problem
> is that I need one by friday and have never seen these in a music or
> electronics store. Perhaps now that I know something like this exist,
> I can try tracking it down.
>
> -Andrew V. Romero
>
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 3:21:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I would be surprised if the mic input puts out 3-6 vdc, but that is an
> interesting bit of information that I will investigate. I haven't tried
> plugging any of my more pro sumer mics (shure sm57) into the camcorder
> directly yet. Would this tell me if it is a DC volt at the mic input
> issue vs a padding issue?
> -Andrew V. Romero<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Yes, the camera mic jack likely will provide
"plug-in power" (3-5v) You'll need to determine
if it's present and also if it's on the tip or
the 3rd terminal of a 'mini TRS'. If the voltage
appears on the ring and the plug you insert
shorts this to ground that may be the source of
the hum.
Get a voltmeter and measure ring to ground and
tip to ground.
Typical camcorder design doesn't provide line-ins
or a mic jack that's setup for anything other than
the on-camera mounted mic the mfgr includes with the
camera.
I'd give the SM57 a try. Connect it pin 2 to tip
and pin 3 to sleeve and leave the ring float.

rd
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 3:43:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I just love some instructions manuals...all my camcorder's says about
the mic input is
Microphone Jack [MIC]
(For PV-GS14/PV-GS15)
· When connecting an external microphone
or audio equipment to this jack, the built-in
microphone does not operate.
· A compatible plug-in powered microphone can
be used. Please consult your dealer for more
information.
· The microphone may make noises depending
on the type used. In this case, we recommend
using the battery with the Camcorder to reduce
noises instead of the AC Adaptor.

Someone else recommended that I try a Radio Shack "Attenuating Cord"
42-2461 which sounds like it may do the job. I will probably try this
first since the cable is only $5 vs the $150 for a converter box such
as those mentionted below. I will let everyone know how it works out.

-Andrew
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 3:47:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Re: Line Out (mixer) to Mic In (camcorder)

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Wed, Sep 14, 2005, 1:41pm (EDT-3) From:
rrstudio2@icqmail.com
lol, hopefully overdrive them instantly doesn't translate to damage them
permanently...
Someone in a video newsgroup pointed me towards some products meant for
this purpose. See
http://www.studio1productions.com/
http://www.signvideo.com/
http://www.beachtek.com/
The studio1productions.com product looks interesting. Now my problem is
that I need one by friday and have never seen these in a music or
electronics store. Perhaps now that I know something like this exist, I
can try tracking it down.
-Andrew V. Romero <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Find the Beachtek for your camera and then click on the dealer link for
a dealer nearest you.

Eric
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 6:54:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

rrstudio2@icqmail.com wrote:

> Hi Everyone, I need your help
> My basic question is I am wondering what I need to use to connect a
> mixer to a mic input? What I am really trying to do is use a wireless
> mic with a typical consumer level camcorder with a mic in. When I run
> the mic's line out directly to the camcorder, I get a low frequency
> hum. I suspect this has something to do with the line output of the
> wireless mic output being balanced and the camcorder mic input being
> unbalanced stereo.

Something I haven't seen mentioned is that a 'typical consumer level
camcorder' most likely also has auto level control (essentially a
compressor without the knobs) built in for mic input.

How to find out if it has auto level control or not? Unless the
camcorder has a way to set input level, you may assume it has auto
level control.

Assuming you turned down the line out far enough to prevent frying the
cam and deliver a mic level signal, ALC will amplify the bejezus out of
any 'silent' input signal. Unless your mic amp is 100% silent (it
isn't), this is one possible cause for any hum and noise recorded by
the camcorder.
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 5:50:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<rrstudio2@icqmail.com> wrote:
>Hi Everyone, I need your help
> My basic question is I am wondering what I need to use to connect a
>mixer to a mic input?

A 40 dB pad.

>What I am really trying to do is use a wireless
>mic with a typical consumer level camcorder with a mic in.

Radio Shack actually sells a cable intended for this job. It has
RCA inputs and a 1/8" stereo output with a 40 dB resistive pad
inside.

When I run
>the mic's line out directly to the camcorder, I get a low frequency
>hum. I suspect this has something to do with the line output of the
>wireless mic output being balanced and the camcorder mic input being
>unbalanced stereo.

No, that's a ground loop issue, almost certainly.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 1:17:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I purchased the radio shack attenuator cble with an RCA input and a 1/8
mono output but it has a 60dB pad built in thus the volume level is
very low. I will make another trip, but I don't think they sell one
that is 30-40dB. I did see one for 90, but that would be way too high.

-Andrew
Anonymous
September 18, 2005 6:33:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1127060254.889627.226260@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>I purchased the radio shack attenuator cble with an RCA input and a 1/8
>mono output but it has a 60dB pad built in thus the volume level is
>very low. I will make another trip, but I don't think they sell one
>that is 30-40dB. I did see one for 90, but that would be way too high.

So turn the gain on the output up.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
!