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A thought, an Article and my slap in the face to those who..

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Anonymous
September 15, 2005 5:10:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I know this might start another flame war - though it is not my
intention.

With the obvious local screw-ups set aside (and one FEMA screw-up), I
personally think that every elected and appointed official did a great
job concerning Katrina: democrat or republican .

I'd like to point out that if you set yourself in the head of any one
of the people who had to make a decision, you could quickly see that
all of them would have tried to be a hero. It is in all of their best
interest to do so - its what promotion lives for. Anyone that chomped
on the bait to cast blame is in my opinion, a pawn played by the media
that is trying to sell advertising and doing it through your emotions.
You're all in the business and yet most of you played right into the
hands of manipulation. Next time something happens, and it will, maybe
you can think about how you are being manipulated by the hands of a few
that sit back and get rich off of fear and insecurity.

Below is a great article that if read, might change some of the
bickering minds that spend so much time complaining around here instead
of spending a little time doing something tangible.



Jack Kelly: No shame
The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed

Sunday, September 11, 2005

It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the
devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.


Jack Kelly is national security writer for the Post-Gazette and
The Blade of Toledo, Ohio (jkelly@post-gazette.com, 412-263-1476).

"Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever
during a dire national emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob
Herbert in a somewhat more strident expression of the conventional
wisdom.

But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.

Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been
mobilized six times for hurricane relief. He notes that:

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but
the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented.
The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew,
faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in
strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in
1992. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard
presence in the afflicted region in three.

Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no
idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies
into an area the size of England in which power lines are down,
telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are
damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently
have little interest in finding out.

So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and
successful disaster relief operation in world history.

I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting
New Orleans breached. In the course of that week:

More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops
by Coast Guard helicopters.

The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun
pumping water out of New Orleans.

Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000
refugees.

Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air
Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth
Estate on his blog, Moltenthought:

"We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on
'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your
worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in
the recovery effort were studying engineering.

"The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi
Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson
dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain
which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and
impassable road network.

"You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning
assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the
very storm which destroyed the region.

"No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will
change any of the facts above."

"You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear
somewhere," van Steenwyk said.

Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their
armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster
area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing
from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.

Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near
the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently),
this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage
assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to
determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the
weight of heavily laden trucks.

And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a
disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors
of the afflicted states.

Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it
took four days before most people were evacuated from the Louisiana
Superdome.

The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven
from Houston to New Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones
arrived Wednesday evening. That seems pretty fast to me.

A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the
roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to
take people out of the city before Katrina struck?
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 6:15:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny Taddei wrote:
>
> "The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi
> Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson
> dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain
> which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and
> impassable road network.
>



So you mean 3+ years from now those folks in New Orleans still won't
have received a hot meal?
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 7:17:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have a great idea- start a catering business!
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 2:21:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the
> roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to
> take people out of the city before Katrina struck?

2000? I kind of doubt it. But regardless, most of the bus drivers
evacuated, or the buses were flooded.

--
Jedd Haas - Artist - New Orleans, LA (Currently exiled on the NJ shore)
http://www.gallerytungsten.com
http://www.epsno.com
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 5:04:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I agree to some extent. I think a lot of people could've done their jobs
better, but they are not AT ALL to blame for many of the charges being
levelled at them. I think we need to remember that the hurricane itself
is what caused this disaster, and there is nothing anyone could do to
stop it. The best we could hope for is to lessen it's effects, and to
that extent I think some people could've been more effective.

Point and case, we as human beings need to understand that mother nature
is vastly more powerful than us and is far beyond our control. If we
don't learn to respect that and try to live as one with nature instead
of fighting against it, I'm afraid much worse will befall us in the future.

Jonny Durango
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 8:21:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 15 Sep 2005 13:10:40 -0700, "Danny Taddei"
<palmtreedreamer@aol.com> wrote:

> (and one FEMA screw-up)

Glad that's cleared up.

Chris Hornbeck
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 11:17:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Gee, somehow every media whore managed to get in and out of that city
with no problem. So what's the Government's excuse?

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 1:20:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What does this have to do with audio?

Copy it and take it to your local bar.

Drink heavily and report back as to the contents of the discussion.

BRIEFLY.

Ty Ford

PS: This sort of thing does not belong here.


On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:10:40 -0400, Danny Taddei wrote
(in article <1126815040.896163.202070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>):

> I know this might start another flame war - though it is not my
> intention.
>
> With the obvious local screw-ups set aside (and one FEMA screw-up), I
> personally think that every elected and appointed official did a great
> job concerning Katrina: democrat or republican .
>
> I'd like to point out that if you set yourself in the head of any one
> of the people who had to make a decision, you could quickly see that
> all of them would have tried to be a hero. It is in all of their best
> interest to do so - its what promotion lives for. Anyone that chomped
> on the bait to cast blame is in my opinion, a pawn played by the media
> that is trying to sell advertising and doing it through your emotions.
> You're all in the business and yet most of you played right into the
> hands of manipulation. Next time something happens, and it will, maybe
> you can think about how you are being manipulated by the hands of a few
> that sit back and get rich off of fear and insecurity.
>
> Below is a great article that if read, might change some of the
> bickering minds that spend so much time complaining around here instead
> of spending a little time doing something tangible.
>
>
>
> Jack Kelly: No shame
> The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed
>
> Sunday, September 11, 2005
>
> It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the
> devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.
>
>
> Jack Kelly is national security writer for the Post-Gazette and
> The Blade of Toledo, Ohio (jkelly@post-gazette.com, 412-263-1476).
>
> "Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever
> during a dire national emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob
> Herbert in a somewhat more strident expression of the conventional
> wisdom.
>
> But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.
>
> Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been
> mobilized six times for hurricane relief. He notes that:
>
> "The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but
> the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented.
> The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew,
> faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."
>
> For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in
> strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in
> 1992. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard
> presence in the afflicted region in three.
>
> Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no
> idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies
> into an area the size of England in which power lines are down,
> telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are
> damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently
> have little interest in finding out.
>
> So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and
> successful disaster relief operation in world history.
>
> I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting
> New Orleans breached. In the course of that week:
>
> More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops
> by Coast Guard helicopters.
>
> The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun
> pumping water out of New Orleans.
>
> Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000
> refugees.
>
> Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air
> Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth
> Estate on his blog, Moltenthought:
>
> "We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on
> 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your
> worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in
> the recovery effort were studying engineering.
>
> "The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi
> Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson
> dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain
> which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and
> impassable road network.
>
> "You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning
> assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the
> very storm which destroyed the region.
>
> "No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will
> change any of the facts above."
>
> "You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear
> somewhere," van Steenwyk said.
>
> Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their
> armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster
> area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing
> from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.
>
> Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near
> the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently),
> this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage
> assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to
> determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the
> weight of heavily laden trucks.
>
> And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a
> disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors
> of the afflicted states.
>
> Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it
> took four days before most people were evacuated from the Louisiana
> Superdome.
>
> The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven
> from Houston to New Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones
> arrived Wednesday evening. That seems pretty fast to me.
>
> A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the
> roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to
> take people out of the city before Katrina struck?
>



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 1:20:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> PS: This sort of thing does not belong here.

Only views from the left are welcome here.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 1:32:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You mean like the Blame Bush thread? Come on, this group needs a
reality check once in a while. Every time anyone says anything in here
it becomes political.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 1:48:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley@xpr7t.net> wrote in message
news:11ilhq961o1u208@corp.supernews.com...
> > PS: This sort of thing does not belong here.
>
> Only views from the left are welcome here.

Clearly, you've been around here for about 10 minutes.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 3:27:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny Taddei wrote:
> I know this might start another flame war - though it is not my
> intention.

What is your intention then? OT political threads are inherently flame
wars and you know it.

> With the obvious local screw-ups set aside (and one FEMA screw-up), I
> personally think that every elected and appointed official did a great
> job concerning Katrina: democrat or republican .
etc etc

Mistakes were made on the local, state and federal level. Most of them
have been going on for years. Invariably people take things for
granted, money for levee upgrades gets put off and other programs seem
more important at the time. We're so focused on terrorism that FEMA
ends up under Homeland Security adding another level of bureaucracy and
red tape. We don't have enough regular army so the National Guard ends
up 'drafted' to go to Iraq. No one believed in the worst case scenario
of a levee breach until iot was too late. I don't doubt that the men &
women in uniform are doing a splendid job. But with the foreknowlege of
the storm coming, knowing it was 4 times bigger than Andrew and
approaching a vital and fragile city it seems that we were unprepared
for the worst.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 3:28:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny Taddei wrote:
> I know this might start another flame war - though it is not my
> intention.

What is your intention then? OT political threads are inherently flame
wars and you know it.

> With the obvious local screw-ups set aside (and one FEMA screw-up), I
> personally think that every elected and appointed official did a great
> job concerning Katrina: democrat or republican .
etc etc

Mistakes were made on the local, state and federal level. Most of them
have been going on for years. Invariably people take things for
granted, money for levee upgrades gets put off and other programs seem
more important at the time. We're so focused on terrorism that FEMA
ends up under Homeland Security adding another level of bureaucracy and
red tape. We don't have enough regular army so the National Guard ends
up 'drafted' to go to Iraq. No one believed in the worst case scenario
of a levee breach until iot was too late. I don't doubt that the men &
women in uniform are doing a splendid job. But with the foreknowlege of
the storm coming, knowing it was 4 times bigger than Andrew and
approaching a vital and fragile city it seems that we were unprepared
for the worst.
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 4:04:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

tymish@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Mistakes were made on the local, state and federal level. Most of them
> have been going on for years. Invariably people take things for
> granted, money for levee upgrades gets put off and other programs seem
> more important at the time. ... No one believed in the worst case scenario
> of a levee breach until iot was too late.

Scientific American, October 2001:
<http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00060286-CB5...;
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 10:21:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

that's pathetic. As the general admonished a reporter today.. don't confuse
what a couple of people with corporate sponsorship can do with the task of
dealing with hundreds of thousands of victims.
<jwilliams3@audioupgrades.com> wrote in message
news:1126880269.823490.101030@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Gee, somehow every media whore managed to get in and out of that city
> with no problem. So what's the Government's excuse?
>
> Jim Williams
> Audio Upgrades
>
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 3:28:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jonny Durango wrote On 09/16/05 01:04,:
> I agree to some extent. I think a lot of people could've done their jobs
> better, but they are not AT ALL to blame for many of the charges being
> levelled at them. I think we need to remember that the hurricane itself
> is what caused this disaster, and there is nothing anyone could do to
> stop it. The best we could hope for is to lessen it's effects, and to
> that extent I think some people could've been more effective.
>
> Point and case, we as human beings need to understand that mother nature
> is vastly more powerful than us and is far beyond our control. If we
> don't learn to respect that and try to live as one with nature instead
> of fighting against it, I'm afraid much worse will befall us in the future.
>
> Jonny Durango

Agreed, and we may want to start by not building cities in areas that are below sea level. And we
might want to enforce building codes that would prevent people from building in 500 year flood
zones. Just ask people in Grand Forks, ND; they had two five hundred year floods within three years.

Having worked in the permitting business, I know the pressure municipalities are under by developers
to open up land that would generally be considered unsafe for construction, but because the "value"
of the land based on its location is more a consideration than safety, the codes are weakened and
the developers are encouraged -- all for the sake of the extra tax revenues it will bring in
property taxes, utilities charges, mitigations fees and all the other financial benefits of opening
up land that should never be developed.

--fletch
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 9:28:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Did you know that when they started that city it wasn't so low? When
they built, it was a dry year and later it flooded. Then, they dried it
out some more and so on but as they dried it out, the land sank.....
what do you want from the french...

If it were me I would have left a long time ago. I actually looked into
moving there last year and when I found out about the history, I
changed my mind - thank god!
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 3:22:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Danny Taddei wrote:
> Did you know that when they started that city it wasn't so low? When
> they built, it was a dry year and later it flooded. Then, they dried it
> out some more and so on but as they dried it out,

,and as they pumped the oil and gas out from underneath it,

> the land sank.....
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 4:17:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Yep - nothing!

You're a clone
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 4:19:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Maybe - but I am serious about that. They didn't start out so low. It
sank over the years as the ground dried out.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 10:27:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Kurt Albershardt wrote:
> Danny Taddei wrote:
>
>> Did you know that when they started that city it wasn't so low? When
>> they built, it was a dry year and later it flooded. Then, they dried it
>> out some more and so on but as they dried it out,
>
>
> ,and as they pumped the oil and gas out from underneath it,
>
>> the land sank.....
>
>

Yup. Rather large factor.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 12:08:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Kurt Albershardt" <kurt@nv.net> wrote in message
news:3p9o8oF9fc2lU2@individual.net
> Danny Taddei wrote:
>> Did you know that when they started that city it wasn't
>> so low? When they built, it was a dry year and later it
>> flooded. Then, they dried it out some more and so on but
>> as they dried it out,
>
> ,and as they pumped the oil and gas out from underneath
> it,
>> the land sank.....

Given that oil and gas reside in some pretty hard rock, why
subsidance happens is a bit of an as-yet unsolved mystery.

Current theory seems to be that petroluem-bearing rocks
often leak a little gas which dissolves into the soil and
causes the soil to expand a tad.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 9:19:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Kurt Albershardt" <kurt@nv.net> wrote in message
> news:3p9o8oF9fc2lU2@individual.net
>
>>Danny Taddei wrote:
>>
>>>Did you know that when they started that city it wasn't
>>>so low? When they built, it was a dry year and later it
>>>flooded. Then, they dried it out some more and so on but
>>>as they dried it out,
>>
>>,and as they pumped the oil and gas out from underneath
>>it,
>>
>>>the land sank.....
>
>
> Given that oil and gas reside in some pretty hard rock, why
> subsidance happens is a bit of an as-yet unsolved mystery.
>
> Current theory seems to be that petroluem-bearing rocks
> often leak a little gas which dissolves into the soil and
> causes the soil to expand a tad.


So some of us are living on ground that's held up by giant gas leaks? Wow.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 10:09:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I get held up by gas leaks myself from time to time :-)
!