Recording sudden sounds from speakers

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:20:25 +0200, Sune T. B. Nielsen wrote:

> Hi
>
> I have this problem with recording my music from the room.
>
> I do these electrical sounds and some of are them quite sudden, so that they
> echo in the room.
>
> I have tried to put the mics (Oktave MK10) in the middele of the room and
> near to the loudspeakers, but with the same result: the sound looses its
> liveliness and sounds kind of flat and cardboard-like.
>
> Undtil now I have done recordings line from the mixer and Im still doing
> that. But firstly I would like to use a sound that has some sound of the
> room and is more like its heard. Secondly i sometimes play with people that
> use acoustic instruments. Here the sound form the loudspeakers - and
> especially its echoes in the room is picked up by the mics. The problem is
> not so much that it is being picked up as that it sounds awful.
>
> Could someone give me some guidelines as to where to put the mics, A when i
> want to record the loudspeakers, B when recording acoustic instruments AND
> loudspeakers? Or some other hints on how to make it sound better..
>
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Sune

What you are doing here is pretty much a standard test of how good a room
is - we call it the impulse response. The problem is that it is designed to
show up just how bad a room is, and that is exactly what is happening to
you. If you want to include the room in the sound, you must imnprove the
acoustics. Without hearing a recording it is impossible to say what
problems you have, but I would guess that you are hearing slap echo, where
the sound reverberates back and forth across the room, making a very
metallic twanging noise.

Can you post an MP3, so we can help you some more?

d

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Don Pearce" <donald@pearce.uk.com> wrote in message
news:nxltitdvzime$.1pmgyvdn7dm0w.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:20:25 +0200, Sune T. B. Nielsen wrote:
>
> What you are doing here is pretty much a standard test of how good a room
> is - we call it the impulse response. The problem is that it is designed
> to
> show up just how bad a room is, and that is exactly what is happening to
> you. If you want to include the room in the sound, you must imnprove the
> acoustics. Without hearing a recording it is impossible to say what
> problems you have, but I would guess that you are hearing slap echo, where
> the sound reverberates back and forth across the room, making a very
> metallic twanging noise.
>
> Can you post an MP3, so we can help you some more?
>
> d

Here is a recording in a large room with one mic on the piano and one om the
cymbal. I really had problems with this one since I had to adjust volume the
line input track high enough cover what the mics picked up from the room.
http://s22.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id [...] 9MR0DUAVOF

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:04:49 +0200, Sune T. B. Nielsen wrote:

> "Don Pearce" <donald@pearce.uk.com> wrote in message
> news:nxltitdvzime$.1pmgyvdn7dm0w.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:20:25 +0200, Sune T. B. Nielsen wrote:
>>
>> What you are doing here is pretty much a standard test of how good a room
>> is - we call it the impulse response. The problem is that it is designed
>> to
>> show up just how bad a room is, and that is exactly what is happening to
>> you. If you want to include the room in the sound, you must imnprove the
>> acoustics. Without hearing a recording it is impossible to say what
>> problems you have, but I would guess that you are hearing slap echo, where
>> the sound reverberates back and forth across the room, making a very
>> metallic twanging noise.
>>
>> Can you post an MP3, so we can help you some more?
>>
>> d
>
> Here is a recording in a large room with one mic on the piano and one om the
> cymbal. I really had problems with this one since I had to adjust volume the
> line input track high enough cover what the mics picked up from the room.
> http://s22.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id [...] 9MR0DUAVOF

OK - not what I was expecting! Rather hard to know what is bad about it
without knowing what you were tring for. But what I can hear is a very
reverberant room, presumably one with no furniture in it. You will do a
great deal better with more sympathetic mic placement. The problem is that
with normal listening, you don't hear what a mic picks up. Put a finger in
one ear and walk around listening - the room will now sound totally
different, and much more like what you will record. Find a good place, and
I am sure it will be much closer to the instruments than the places you
used on those recordings. You may also want to soften the room a bit to
reduce some of the reverberation.

d

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Carey Carlan" <gulfjoe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96D6D09C29767gulfjoehotmailcom@140.99.99.130...
> "Sune T. B. Nielsen" <suneni@get2net.dk> wrote in
> news:432ede9c$0$33542$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk:
>
>> Ooops: one mistake: the mics are Oktave MK12A. I have 3 heads - omni,
>> kidney and superkidney
>
> If you want your recording to sound like what you hear in the room, your
> first choice should be an omni microphone (or two). Cover one ear,
> listen to the sound, move around until what you hear is what you want to
> record, and place the microphone(s) there.
>
> If you're trying to capture just the speaker sound and isolate it from
> the room sound, use the supercardioid (superkidney) fairly close to the
> speaker driver.
>
>> And maybe I should explain a bit more:
>>
>> Imagine
>> A
>> A live concert with two improvisors. One using the PA and one an
>> acoustic instrument - unamplified.
>
> If one is amplified and one acoustic, you must balance the level of the
> amplified sound to the acoustic. If you can't hear a good balance, you
> can't record a good balance.
>
>> B
>> A studio session in one room with the same setup.
>>
>> In both situations I would record the line signal but also want a room
>> recording that sounds well.
>
> Avoid the exact center of the room. Avoid near the walls. Avoid halfway
> between the ceiling and the floor. Neither your speaker nor your
> microphones should be in these "bounce" zones.



Thanks a lot both of you. Those were really useful tips

WRT bounce zones - are there any 'magic numbers' that you could use as rule
of thumb? E.g. thirds rather than fifths or something like that?


Best regards
Sune