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Behringer - Very Disturbing Article

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Anonymous
September 19, 2005 11:10:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:

http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838

Todd
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 11:10:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Todd McFadden wrote:
> I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:

I don't know who did it first, but dbx also made (or still makes) a
preamp with a yellow LED to illuminate the tube. Like the Behringer, it
also had a "show window" for the tube, and the marketing department
decided that the tube glow wasn't bright enough.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 11:10:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, if the market isn't concerned with how closely Behringer
duplicates others' designs, why should they care much about how the
design works--or doesn't work. IOW, Behringer customers aren't really
concerned about the company's ethics, are they? later, ron

....
Todd McFadden wrote:
> I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:
>
> http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838
>
> Todd
Related resources
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 11:10:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Todd McFadden" wrote ...
>I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:
>
> http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838

Which do you find outrageous? The questionable starved
tube circuit, or the fake heater glow from the LEDs?

Anyone who believes in one deserves the other, IMHO.
Seems like par for the course to me.

Doesn't change my opinion of Behringer. Just reinforces
my opinion of people who believe in magic circuits.
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 11:10:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>I don't know who did it first, but dbx also made (or still makes) a
>preamp with a yellow LED to illuminate the tube. Like the Behringer, it
>also had a "show window" for the tube, and the marketing department
>decided that the tube glow wasn't bright enough.



Well, sure. Other have done it before. Behringer nicked this idea
too!
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 1:45:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound (More info?)

>
> > Letsee, the tube is part of the circuit but the author is
> > upset because some LEDs were placed behind it to enhance its
> > warm, yellow glow.
> >
> > Someone needs a life!
>
> The purchaser maybe ? (or should that be the designer ? )
>
> Graham
>

the next logical step is to modulate the backlighting... and switch in red
LEDs for overdrive.

they got to come up with a catchy name... how about ultragroovytubyessance?
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 2:28:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Todd McFadden" <toddbear@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:LJedndp79Zoz2LLeRVn-2A@adelphia.com...
> I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:
>
> http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838
>
> Todd
>
>

Those things must be engineered to science-fiction-level tolerances -
it's not even that the light of the LEDs affects the sound (that would
be amazing enough in itself), but that the *energy generated by the
user's awareness of the LEDs* affects the sound.

Gotta get me some of that tech.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 3:13:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound (More info?)

TimPerry wrote:
>>>Letsee, the tube is part of the circuit but the author is
>>>upset because some LEDs were placed behind it to enhance its
>>>warm, yellow glow.

Hey, why not leave the tube _out_ of the circuit and light it entirely
with LEDs? You'd probably get better sound quality, and you'd never have
to worry about the tube burning out.
September 20, 2005 3:32:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound (More info?)

What is the problem with highlighting a Valve ??? a 12AX7 does not
light up very much under normal use .... What next ? people claiming
that clip/peak indicators are a con because the light is not actually
from components catching fire ????
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 3:57:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Todd McFadden" <toddbear@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:LJedndp79Zoz2LLeRVn-2A@adelphia.com...
>I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:
>
> http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838
>
> Todd

They're not the only ones that do this. As long as there are people gullible
enough to buy the "glowing tubes = warm music" myth don't expect it to go
away.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 4:32:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Are you bothered when you discover that a singer uses Autotune in studio
works?
I am not... If it works, it works!
I understand that Behringer is doing a frode but as a sound engineer what
would you expect from it?

Thet reminds me when I was a kid and I discovered that U2 guitar player The
Edge wasn't playing all the notes.... it was a delay!!!
F.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 4:49:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:32:22 GMT, "Federico" <plokmichael@tiscali.it>
wrote:

>Are you bothered when you discover that a singer uses Autotune in studio
>works?
>I am not... If it works, it works!
>I understand that Behringer is doing a frode but as a sound engineer what
>would you expect from it?
>
>Thet reminds me when I was a kid and I discovered that U2 guitar player The
>Edge wasn't playing all the notes.... it was a delay!!!

When I was new to rec.audio.pro I was told that someday I would get
my ears, and when I did, I would be able to discover that these studio
tricks were being used by, of all things, LISTENING!

Of course, I always thought (until told otherwise, and I actually
played it at half speed and heard it for myself) that the instrumental
part on "In My Life" was done on a harpsichord. It was kinda bright,
had a kinda fast decay, but what did I know...

>F.
>
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:04:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound (More info?)

TimPerry wrote:

> < ...snip.. >
> > > warm, yellow glow.
> > > Someone needs a life!
> > The purchaser maybe ? (or should that be the designer ? )
> > Graham
>
> the next logical step is to modulate the backlighting... and switch in red
> LEDs for overdrive.
>
> they got to come up with a catchy name... how about ultragroovytubyessance?

Nah, that red glow of the plate overheating isn't dynamic enough. I'd opt for
the blues and greens of arcing and e-beams hitting the glass. <G>

Me, I put blue filters in front of the tube's viewing port on my Tube-EQs
to cut down on the backlighting glare.

Later...

Ron Capik
--
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:10:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley@xpr7t.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:11iuodhdt6cid67@corp.supernews.com...
> "Todd McFadden" wrote ...

> Doesn't change my opinion of Behringer. Just reinforces
> my opinion of people who believe in magic circuits.

Maybe that's why my $99.99 electronic "fat burner - muscle grower - life
saver" is not working properly...
F.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:24:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:45:19 -0400, "TimPerry"
<timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote:

>the next logical step is to modulate the backlighting... and switch in red
>LEDs for overdrive.
>
>they got to come up with a catchy name... how about ultragroovytubyessance?

The early 1970's were truly great, but who *really*
wants to relive 'em?

"It was the best of times. It was the worst of times"
etc.

Chris Hornbeck
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:27:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:10:22 -0400, "Todd McFadden"
<toddbear@adelphia.net> wrote:

>I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:

Did you mean "I am generally NOT a Behringer fan"? That would make
more sense in context.

>http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838

Quoting a paragraph (I hope the author doesn't SUE me...):

"My feeling is however that probably the tube is connected and run
very conservatively in order to prolong its life. Hence the heater
current is too small to make the tube glow."

This doesn't seem likely. If the heater is operated well below its
rated voltage, emission would surely be WAY down, so much that the
tube will be useless in a circuit.

" And if it doesn't glow, what would have been the point of putting it
on display? Hence the LEDs to compensate. Perhaps they were an
afterthought."

Does this site (record-producer.com) have any Behringer ads?
Perhaps a better question is:
DID this site have any Behringer ads?

>Todd

Could we ALL (the article author, and all posters in this thread)
be named in the next Behringer lawsuit? Stay tuned for the next
episode of "As the CDR turns."
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:38:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chris Hornbeck wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:45:19 -0400, "TimPerry"
> <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote:
>
> >the next logical step is to modulate the backlighting... and switch in red
> >LEDs for overdrive.
> >
> >they got to come up with a catchy name... how about ultragroovytubyessance?
>
> The early 1970's were truly great, but who *really*
> wants to relive 'em?
>
> "It was the best of times. It was the worst of times"
> etc.
>
> Chris Hornbeck

What, you don't buy equipment for all the blinking lights?
Wow, look at all the pretty flashing colors......... <G>

Later...

Ron Capik
--
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:49:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Geary wrote:

> < ...snip.. >
>
> Those things must be engineered to science-fiction-level tolerances -
> it's not even that the light of the LEDs affects the sound (that would
> be amazing enough in itself), but that the *energy generated by the
> user's awareness of the LEDs* affects the sound.
>
> Gotta get me some of that tech.

That's the acoustic placebo effect in action there. I believe
it's similar to never blind testing found in some other audio
forums, reviews, etc. Or in other words: who put the psycho
in psychoacoustics?

Later...

Ron Capik
--
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:57:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 19 Sep 2005 16:42:30 -0700, Mike Rivers wrote:

> Todd McFadden wrote:
>> I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:
>
> I don't know who did it first, but dbx also made (or still makes) a
> preamp with a yellow LED to illuminate the tube. Like the Behringer, it
> also had a "show window" for the tube, and the marketing department
> decided that the tube glow wasn't bright enough.

The Hammond XK-3 (a $2000+ unit which attempts to sound like the classic
elctro-mechanical B-3) also employs this technology and ruse to convince
the buyer that the tube is doing something.

BTW--there are Hammond fanatics who swear by the sound of the Xk-3.

"May you live in interesting times"

Art
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:59:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 02:38:15 GMT, Ron Capik <r.capik@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

>What, you don't buy equipment for all the blinking lights?
>Wow, look at all the pretty flashing colors......... <G>

Do you really mean to tell us, in a public forum,
that you *don't* have the speaker wires with the
water jackets lit by blue lights?

The depths to which one may fall... Sometimes
I just can't fathom some folks' priorities.


Thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 7:06:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound (More info?)

TimPerry wrote:

> >
> > > Letsee, the tube is part of the circuit but the author is
> > > upset because some LEDs were placed behind it to enhance its
> > > warm, yellow glow.
> > >
> > > Someone needs a life!
> >
> > The purchaser maybe ? (or should that be the designer ? )
> >
> > Graham
> >
>
> the next logical step is to modulate the backlighting... and switch in red
> LEDs for overdrive.
>
> they got to come up with a catchy name... how about ultragroovytubyessance?

If ppl want *toys* - I'm happy to oblige !

Just don't let toys masquerade as serious pro-audio !

Graham
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 7:27:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Ron Capik" <r.capik@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:432F77D4.DB6F9550@worldnet.att.net...
>
> That's the acoustic placebo effect in action there. I believe
> it's similar to never blind testing found in some other audio
> forums, reviews, etc. Or in other words: who put the psycho
> in psychoacoustics?
>

As much as I hate to admit it (and think it's total bunk) that's the only
thing that validates audio snake oil since we're talking enjoyment of art
which is totally subjective. So if a person believes something to be true,
it might as well be.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 7:34:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:13:03 -0400, Joe Kesselman
<keshlam-nospam@comcast.net> wrote:

>Hey, why not leave the tube _out_ of the circuit and light it entirely
>with LEDs? You'd probably get better sound quality, and you'd never have
>to worry about the tube burning out.

And to make it even stranger, both common assumptions
about tubes are at least misguided.

Numero uno is that tubes/ vacuum valves are somehow
distortion generators. In fact, ordinary garden-variety
triodes like 12AX7's are ridiculously linear by any
modern standard, if properly used. Yeah; weird, but true.
10 volts RMS output with distortion artifacts >60dB
down *before feedback* and a gain of >30dB is something
acheivable in modern devices only with complementary
FET's, and real complemetarity is tough to come by.

I'd be greatly interested to be contradicted here,
because valves (and FET's) have their impedance and
noise matching issues.

And, as far as reliablity, I have lots of tubes in perfectly
good working condition older than I am, and I was born
in 1950.

Good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 7:39:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 19 Sep 2005 18:30:15 -0700, vdubreeze@earthlink.net wrote:

>>I don't know who did it first, but dbx also made (or still makes) a
>>preamp with a yellow LED to illuminate the tube. Like the Behringer, it
>>also had a "show window" for the tube, and the marketing department
>>decided that the tube glow wasn't bright enough.
>
>
>
>Well, sure. Other have done it before. Behringer nicked this idea
>too!

You mean Behringer can't even come up with an original "fake
circuit" idea???
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 7:39:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> You mean Behringer can't even come up with an original "fake
> circuit" idea???

Some folks won't give Behringer credit for anything, even for anything
bad. Which, methinks, says more about them than about the company.
September 20, 2005 11:24:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:10:22 -0400, "Todd McFadden"
<toddbear@adelphia.net> wrote:

>I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:
>
>http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838


This is not at all unprecedented. Take a look at what Bob Carver does
with his Classic Vacuum Tube preamp:

http://home.nyc.rr.com/acidrock212/tube3.jpg
http://home.nyc.rr.com/acidrock212/tube4.jpg

He surrounds 3 tubes in a mirrored cage, with white LED's behind each
one. When you look through the front window, it's just a little more
dramatic.

I was not at all offended by it; I thought it was kind of cool.

A_C
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 12:03:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Chris Hornbeck" <chrishornbeckremovethis@att.net> wrote in
message news:vhsui1p77e7b3jdmdvtqmbdh6a1vtn01e8@4ax.com
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:45:19 -0400, "TimPerry"
> <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> the next logical step is to modulate the backlighting...
>> and switch in red LEDs for overdrive.
>>
>> they got to come up with a catchy name... how about
>> ultragroovytubyessance?
>
> The early 1970's were truly great, but who *really*
> wants to relive 'em?

It seems like: Mostly people who didn't live them the first
time.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 12:03:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>> The early 1970's were truly great, but who *really*
>> wants to relive 'em?
>
> It seems like: Mostly people who didn't live them the first
> time.

They seem just as stupid in retrospect as they did at the time.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 12:30:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:
> It seems like: Mostly people who didn't live them the first
> time.

Or those of us who were there but were too young to be _there_.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 12:40:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Joe Kesselman" <keshlam-nospam@comcast.net> wrote in
message news:vIednSBDxJ1dna3eRVn-1A@comcast.com

> Arny Krueger wrote:

>> It seems like: Mostly people who didn't live them the
>> first time.

> Or those of us who were there but were too young to be
> _there_.

Welling being there but too young to really live them is
really about the same as not living them.

The 70's weren't that bad, except of course for the Vietnam
thing and all the people who died, often painfully,of things
that we now know how to manage. For example many forms of
cancer that are fairly survivable these days were a death
sentence, then. The other problem was that in those days
many of use were in our teens or twenties, which are
problematical for a lot of people.

Audio distribution media-wise vinyl was beginning to pinch,
sonically but analog tape was too expensive for producers to
make a lot of money selling. Cassette was even more the pits
than it is now.

In the studio, wide high speed tape rocked. Mics and
consoles were good but quite expensive.
September 20, 2005 12:46:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound (More info?)

I seem to recall that Behringer has been sued several times for patent
infringment issues. I don't think they have ever truly engineered
anything of their own without copying much of the design from some
high-end expensive piece - altering just enough of the circuit to keep
the lawyers back. Apperently early on they didn't even bother making
minor changes to circumvent patent issues and they were sued because of
it. I DO have some Behringer stuff and it works well and I like it and
the price. So far none of my Behringer stuff has had a problem.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 12:47:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:432F5F95.8AD981FD@hotmail.com...

> You reckon he faked the pics ?

No, but he raised the question " The thought did cross my mind whether the
tube was actually connected into the circuit. "

Why doesn't tell us the result of his test (take the tube out, and see if
the equipoment still works.)

This seems a quick and easy test to do; I should think anyone interested in
truth would carry out the test first. So why didn't he say what the result
of the test was? (The answer is obvious, of course.)

Tim
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 1:39:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound (More info?)

> >>>Letsee, the tube is part of the circuit but the author is
> >>>upset because some LEDs were placed behind it to enhance its
> >>>warm, yellow glow.
>
> Hey, why not leave the tube _out_ of the circuit and light it entirely
> with LEDs? You'd probably get better sound quality, and you'd never have
> to worry about the tube burning out.

then you wouldn't make any money selling replacement tubes.

look out world here comes the ultra12AX7A


next we need a little microphone pickup to inject a little ambient out of
phase signal to cancel microphonic action.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 1:56:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Todd McFadden wrote:

>I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:
>
>http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838
>
>Todd
>
>
>
>
Wow! The author really has a bone to pick!
Does this matter AT ALL?
Now, if Behringer were selling it as a superb sounding unit with real
valve sound AND charging money for it, it would be nasty, but the bloody
thing costs $99!
What a ridiculous article...
September 20, 2005 2:02:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound (More info?)

In article <g9TXe.68364$Fe7.230473@news000.worldonline.dk>, "Q" <Q@Q.Q>
wrote:

> I own one of those preamps, and while I am not too impressed with the yellow
> LEDs it does work, and has worked for several years with no issues at all...
> Obviously its not a Neve preamp, but it gets the job done..

I hope it has better shielding than the single-channel ones. Had a
fiddle player bring one of those single channel Behringer "tube" preamp
to a festival last year. Any time a stage tech tried to talk on the
radio, the preamp picked up a blast of RF. Very unpleasant...
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 5:18:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound (More info?)

Richard <thermof@atps.net> wrote:
>What is the problem with highlighting a Valve ??? a 12AX7 does not
>light up very much under normal use .... What next ? people claiming
>that clip/peak indicators are a con because the light is not actually
>from components catching fire ????

Because it's just more cosmetic silliness. As soon as you start putting
the stuff behind glass and lighting it up, it's a sign that there is more
of an emphasis on style than substance.

I don't CARE what it looks like. I care how it sounds. I don't want my
money being spent on additional junk that adds nothing to improve the sound.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 5:49:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Chris Hornbeck"
>

>
> Numero uno is that tubes/ vacuum valves are somehow
> distortion generators. In fact, ordinary garden-variety
> triodes like 12AX7's are ridiculously linear by any
> modern standard, if properly used.


** Those last three words are the catch.


> Yeah; weird, but true.
> 10 volts RMS output with distortion artifacts >60dB
> down *before feedback* and a gain of >30dB


** Not bloody likely with a resistor acting as plate load.




........... Phil
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 5:49:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:49:21 +1000, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

>> Yeah; weird, but true.
>> 10 volts RMS output with distortion artifacts >60dB
>> down *before feedback* and a gain of >30dB
>
>
> ** Not bloody likely with a resistor acting as plate load.

Actually very easy to do with a big enough resistor.

It's the *big enough resistor* part that's the
sticking point. It implies complex load lines having
minimums of several times plate resistance, an
appreciation of the importance of the elliptical
real-world reactive load, and an appreciation
for detail, where several pF matter, even in our
audio world.

And, on the input side, appropriate impedance matching
for noise considerations. Very expensive to do right
in modern (low-manufacturing-volume) context.

But, as far as fundamental linearity goes, if the
vacuum valve were to be invented today, it might well
be hailed as a miracle of modern weird tech. It
does do some otherwise difficult tasks better'n
anything else. Yet.

A lot better'n cell phones, 's my take.

Chris Hornbeck
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 5:49:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chris Hornbeck <chrishornbeckremovethis@att.net> wrote:
>
>But, as far as fundamental linearity goes, if the
>vacuum valve were to be invented today, it might well
>be hailed as a miracle of modern weird tech. It
>does do some otherwise difficult tasks better'n
>anything else. Yet.


"Our head story tonight involves Dr. Will U. Bendova in the Department of
Electrical Engineering, who has invented a new form of amplification device
which is notably more radiation-proof than current transistor technologies,
and can operate over a wide temperature span owing to its unique intrinsic
temperature regulation. Dubbed the Vacuum Tube, Dr. Bendova discovered the
principle behind it while leafing through the encyclopaedia looking for
information on vacuum cleaners. This happy bit of serendipity will bring
better quality electronic devices to those living in high temperature and
radiation areas, like the dorms next to the Nuclear Science building. Dr.
Bendova feels this wide breakthrough can be applied to more general systems,
once minor problems with power requirements can be overcome. However, he
was quoted as saying, because of the high voltage required, these devices
can be operated directly off the power line, removing the need for expensive
and unreliable low-voltage transformers. Such a breakthrough could produce
cheap and good radios that everyone could own."
-- From UGA Today, broadcast on WREK-FM, mid-1970s some time


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 5:50:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,alt.audio.pro.live-sound (More info?)

"Ron Capik" <r.capik@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:432F6D2D.14A93677@worldnet.att.net...
> TimPerry wrote:
>
>> < ...snip.. >
>> > > warm, yellow glow.
>> > > Someone needs a life!
>> > The purchaser maybe ? (or should that be the designer ? )
>> > Graham
>>
>> the next logical step is to modulate the backlighting... and switch in
>> red
>> LEDs for overdrive.
>>
>> they got to come up with a catchy name... how about
>> ultragroovytubyessance?
>
> Nah, that red glow of the plate overheating isn't dynamic enough. I'd opt
> for
> the blues and greens of arcing and e-beams hitting the glass. <G>
>
> Me, I put blue filters in front of the tube's viewing port on my Tube-EQs
> to cut down on the backlighting glare.
>
> Later...
>
> Ron Capik
> --
>

Ahh blue, for that well gassed tube look.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:08:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:3vadnYmKmoY2n63eRVn-gg@comcast.com...

> Audio distribution media-wise vinyl was beginning to pinch,
> sonically ...

Remember the oil shortage that caused record companies to recycle vinyl?
You'd occasionally buy a new record with a pit of paper sticking up out
through the vinyl - part of the label of a record that had been melted down
for its vinyl!

Tim
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:08:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Tim Martin" <tim2718281@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6JUXe.15079$QU3.6442@newsfe1-win.ntli.net
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:3vadnYmKmoY2n63eRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>
>> Audio distribution media-wise vinyl was beginning to
>> pinch, sonically ...

> Remember the oil shortage that caused record companies to
> recycle vinyl?

A goodly number were recycling before all that... ;-(

>You'd occasionally buy a new record with a
> pit of paper sticking up out through the vinyl - part of
> the label of a record that had been melted down for its
> vinyl!

The pressing plant didn't have the grinder set to "fine"?
;-(
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:08:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Tim Martin <tim2718281@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
>
>> Audio distribution media-wise vinyl was beginning to pinch,
>> sonically ...
>
>Remember the oil shortage that caused record companies to recycle vinyl?
>You'd occasionally buy a new record with a pit of paper sticking up out
>through the vinyl - part of the label of a record that had been melted down
>for its vinyl!

Everybody uses regrind. If you use 100% virgin vinyl with no regrind,
you get noise problems. You want something around 10% regrind in the
mix, usually from failed pressings and flash cut from around the edges.
Usually the big labels would put their overstock into the regrind bins
as well.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:46:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> BTW--there are Hammond fanatics who swear by the sound of the Xk-3.

I've sworn at them before but why would anybody swear BY one?

-----------------------------------------------------------
www.RickRyan.com
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:46:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Chris Hornbeck"
"Phil Allison"

>>> Yeah; weird, but true.
>>> 10 volts RMS output with distortion artifacts >60dB
>>> down *before feedback* and a gain of >30dB
>>
>>
>> ** Not bloody likely with a resistor acting as plate load.
>
> Actually very easy to do with a big enough resistor.
>
> It's the *big enough resistor* part that's the
> sticking point. It implies complex load lines having
> minimums of several times plate resistance, an
> appreciation of the importance of the elliptical
> real-world reactive load, and an appreciation
> for detail, where several pF matter, even in our
> audio world.
>


* Totally off with the pixies and goblins - as usual.




............ Phil
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 6:46:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:46:52 +1000, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

> * Totally off with the pixies and goblins - as usual.

Very soon anyway. Good night,

Chris Hornbeck
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 7:03:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Todd McFadden" <toddbear@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:LJedndp79Zoz2LLeRVn-2A@adelphia.com...
>I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:
>
> http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838
>
> Todd


Well you certainly have 'starved plate' designs that give a sort of crass
tube effect without the cost of a real PSU (like most-if-not-all cheapo
tube pre's really are), but this would appear to be a 'starved filament'
design !!!

geoff
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 7:03:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:03:02 +1200, "Geoff@work"
<gwood@nospam-audioproducts.co.nz> wrote:

>
>"Todd McFadden" <toddbear@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>news:LJedndp79Zoz2LLeRVn-2A@adelphia.com...
>>I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:
>>
>> http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838
>>
>> Todd
>
>
> Well you certainly have 'starved plate' designs that give a sort of crass
>tube effect without the cost of a real PSU (like most-if-not-all cheapo
>tube pre's really are), but this would appear to be a 'starved filament'
>design !!!

It could even be a 'starved vacuum' design, where the silvery area
around the getter has turned white. Would any buyer of this thing be
the wiser???

>
>geoff
>
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 7:04:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Ricky Hunt" <rhunt22@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o fIXe.354066$_o.232914@attbi_s71...
> "Todd McFadden" <toddbear@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:LJedndp79Zoz2LLeRVn-2A@adelphia.com...
>>I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous:
>>
>> http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838
>>
>> Todd
>
> They're not the only ones that do this. As long as there are people
> gullible enough to buy the "glowing tubes = warm music" myth don't expect
> it to go away.


Well it aint "warm music", it's "yellow music".

geoff
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