Help analyze this Jester move

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Playing a game as White against Jester online (well, the Java applet
started while online), I reached a certain point in the game where
Jester's move puzzles me. Is this a blunder, or something protecting
against a line I don't see? After 28.Nb5 the table looks like this:

Black: Pawns at d6, e5, c5 and f7; Ra8 Re8; Kg8; Nd7 Ng5; Qf6; Bb7 Bg7.

White: Pawns at d5, c4, e4, f2, g2, h3; Rd1 Rf1; Kg1; Nf5 Nb5; Qg3;
Be2.

Then followed: 28...Ba6 29.Nxg7 Ra7 30.Nxe8 Qg6 31.Nxa7 Nxe4
32.Qf3 Ndf6 33.Nxf6+ Nxf6.

That rook move 29...Ra7 puzzles me. It's like a big "come and get it"
sign but why make the sacrifice of *two* rooks this way?

Note that I tried editing the board for this position and setting
Jester to White, in order to play 28...Ba6 myself and see how Jester
would have played as White from there, but finishing the edit board
function automatically resets Jester to Black, and changing it to White
subsequently doesn't permit me to move Black either.

Mark Adkins
msadkins04@yahoo.com

 

[Ruud]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Don't be puzzled, this move make no sence.
Shredder goes from -3.00 to +11.50 because of this move.
Q*g7 is the normal move, as you will understand.
I don't know much about programs and programming, and I'm pretty sure Jester
is far better than me (Is it??? I'm 1650, more or less), but It must be an
ineffective loop in the programm.
<msadkins04@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:1125775513.699440.290370@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Playing a game as White against Jester online (well, the Java applet
> started while online), I reached a certain point in the game where
> Jester's move puzzles me. Is this a blunder, or something protecting
> against a line I don't see? After 28.Nb5 the table looks like this:
>
> Black: Pawns at d6, e5, c5 and f7; Ra8 Re8; Kg8; Nd7 Ng5; Qf6; Bb7 Bg7.
>
> White: Pawns at d5, c4, e4, f2, g2, h3; Rd1 Rf1; Kg1; Nf5 Nb5; Qg3;
> Be2.
>
> Then followed: 28...Ba6 29.Nxg7 Ra7 30.Nxe8 Qg6 31.Nxa7 Nxe4
> 32.Qf3 Ndf6 33.Nxf6+ Nxf6.
>
> That rook move 29...Ra7 puzzles me. It's like a big "come and get it"
> sign but why make the sacrifice of *two* rooks this way?
>
> Note that I tried editing the board for this position and setting
> Jester to White, in order to play 28...Ba6 myself and see how Jester
> would have played as White from there, but finishing the edit board
> function automatically resets Jester to Black, and changing it to White
> subsequently doesn't permit me to move Black either.
>
> Mark Adkins
> msadkins04@yahoo.com
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.analysis (More info?)

Ruud wrote:

> <msadkins04@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1125775513.699440.290370@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Playing a game as White against Jester online (well, the Java applet
> > started while online), I reached a certain point in the game where
> > Jester's move puzzles me. Is this a blunder, or something protecting
> > against a line I don't see? After 28.Nb5 the table looks like this:
> >
> > Black: Pawns at d6, e5, c5 and f7; Ra8 Re8; Kg8; Nd7 Ng5; Qf6; Bb7 Bg7.
> >
> > White: Pawns at d5, c4, e4, f2, g2, h3; Rd1 Rf1; Kg1; Nf5 Nb5; Qg3;
> > Be2.
> >
> > Then followed: 28...Ba6 29.Nxg7 Ra7 30.Nxe8 Qg6 31.Nxa7 Nxe4
> > 32.Qf3 Ndf6 33.Nxf6+ Nxf6.
> >
> > That rook move 29...Ra7 puzzles me. It's like a big "come and get it"
> > sign but why make the sacrifice of *two* rooks this way?
> >
> > Note that I tried editing the board for this position and setting
> > Jester to White, in order to play 28...Ba6 myself and see how Jester
> > would have played as White from there, but finishing the edit board
> > function automatically resets Jester to Black, and changing it to White
> > subsequently doesn't permit me to move Black either.
> >
> > Mark Adkins
> > msadkins04@yahoo.com
> >
>
> Don't be puzzled, this move make no sence.
> Shredder goes from -3.00 to +11.50 because of this move.
> Q*g7 is the normal move, as you will understand.
> I don't know much about programs and programming, and I'm pretty sure Jester
> is far better than me (Is it??? I'm 1650, more or less), but It must be an
> ineffective loop in the programm.

And yet...I figured out a partial way around the problem of getting
Jester to play White here. What I did was use the "inverse board"
function and then, ignoring the square labels but using the same
geometry, used the edit board function to set up Black's pieces as
White's are given above (and vice-versa), i.e., Black queen at b6 and
White queen at c3, with the board inverted to have Black playing from
the bottom (from the 8th rank as the bottom of the board). And after
playing Bh3 for White (the equivalent of 28...Ba6 for Black as given
above), Jester played Nxe3 (the equivalent of 29.Nxd6 for White as
given above), instead of taking a bishop as I did, and even in
preference to moving Nf2 (Nc7) to fork the two rooks. That is, Jester
preferred, as White moving following the bishop threat to his knight,
to take a pawn instead of forking two rooks...so something is going on
and it seems to have a superior line "in mind". But what is it? There
was no way to proceed further using this trick, since I did not move
(in the game described above) as Jester did in my place.

Mark Adkins
msadkins04@yahoo.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.analysis (More info?)

Ruud wrote:
> If I understand correctly. you switched the white and black pieces without
> turning around the board. If I understand wrong, I don't have an answer for
> you, but I don't think analysing is possible that way with shredder.

The easiest way to describe it is this: set up the board as I
originally posed it; now wave a magic wand which changes the color of
the White pieces to black, and the color of the Black pieces to white.
Now, after moving White (originally Black) Ba6, Jester (playing Black)
moved Nbxd6, capturing the pawn, instead of Nc7 (forking the two rooks)
or Nfxg7 (*my* response to Ba6 in the original game).

For that matter, the move Ba6 seems a trifle ineffectual, since it does
not prevent the b-knight from either taking the pawn or forking the
rooks; it merely discourages its sitting there -- and what else?
Something else, likely, because otherwise it seems a silly move.

Mark Adkins
msadkins04@yahoo.com

 

[Ruud]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.analysis (More info?)

If I understand correctly. you switched the white and black pieces without
turning around the board. If I understand wrong, I don't have an answer for
you, but I don't think analysing is possible that way with shredder.
<msadkins04@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:1125863613.424771.258570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ruud wrote:
>
>> <msadkins04@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:1125775513.699440.290370@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Playing a game as White against Jester online (well, the Java applet
>> > started while online), I reached a certain point in the game where
>> > Jester's move puzzles me. Is this a blunder, or something protecting
>> > against a line I don't see? After 28.Nb5 the table looks like this:
>> >
>> > Black: Pawns at d6, e5, c5 and f7; Ra8 Re8; Kg8; Nd7 Ng5; Qf6; Bb7 Bg7.
>> >
>> > White: Pawns at d5, c4, e4, f2, g2, h3; Rd1 Rf1; Kg1; Nf5 Nb5; Qg3;
>> > Be2.
>> >
>> > Then followed: 28...Ba6 29.Nxg7 Ra7 30.Nxe8 Qg6 31.Nxa7 Nxe4
>> > 32.Qf3 Ndf6 33.Nxf6+ Nxf6.
>> >
>> > That rook move 29...Ra7 puzzles me. It's like a big "come and get it"
>> > sign but why make the sacrifice of *two* rooks this way?
>> >
>> > Note that I tried editing the board for this position and setting
>> > Jester to White, in order to play 28...Ba6 myself and see how Jester
>> > would have played as White from there, but finishing the edit board
>> > function automatically resets Jester to Black, and changing it to White
>> > subsequently doesn't permit me to move Black either.
>> >
>> > Mark Adkins
>> > msadkins04@yahoo.com
>> >
>>
>> Don't be puzzled, this move make no sence.
>> Shredder goes from -3.00 to +11.50 because of this move.
>> Q*g7 is the normal move, as you will understand.
>> I don't know much about programs and programming, and I'm pretty sure
>> Jester
>> is far better than me (Is it??? I'm 1650, more or less), but It must be
>> an
>> ineffective loop in the programm.
>
> And yet...I figured out a partial way around the problem of getting
> Jester to play White here. What I did was use the "inverse board"
> function and then, ignoring the square labels but using the same
> geometry, used the edit board function to set up Black's pieces as
> White's are given above (and vice-versa), i.e., Black queen at b6 and
> White queen at c3, with the board inverted to have Black playing from
> the bottom (from the 8th rank as the bottom of the board). And after
> playing Bh3 for White (the equivalent of 28...Ba6 for Black as given
> above), Jester played Nxe3 (the equivalent of 29.Nxd6 for White as
> given above), instead of taking a bishop as I did, and even in
> preference to moving Nf2 (Nc7) to fork the two rooks. That is, Jester
> preferred, as White moving following the bishop threat to his knight,
> to take a pawn instead of forking two rooks...so something is going on
> and it seems to have a superior line "in mind". But what is it? There
> was no way to proceed further using this trick, since I did not move
> (in the game described above) as Jester did in my place.
>
> Mark Adkins
> msadkins04@yahoo.com
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.analysis (More info?)

msadkins04@yahoo.com wrote:

> set up the board as I
> originally posed it; now wave a magic wand which changes the color of
> the White pieces to black, and the color of the Black pieces to white.

Than pawns go and attack in a wrong
direction. You get a completely
different psition from the the original
one (chesswise).

Regards,

Wlod

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.analysis (More info?)

Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (wlod) wrote:

> Than pawns go and attack in a wrong
> direction.

"Then", not "Than".

Wlod