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CD & Hard drives underwater?

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Anonymous
September 23, 2005 9:19:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello All,

We had to pull out in sort of a hurry -- Wasn't able to retrieve and
pack *everything*. I guess I could probably google this up but thought
I'd ask...

Is there any experience/knowledge out there with CD/DVD's and hard
drives that's sat under salt water for say 2-3 weeks? I've reckoned
that everything else is replaceable but curious about those two forms
of media.

Simply thought I'd ask here first.

Andy

More about : hard drives underwater

September 24, 2005 2:23:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

This doesn't fully answer your question, but may offer hope. I was
hired to remove a server from a burnt building to recover data. One
external hard drive was fully submerged, the other heavily soaked. I
unscrewed the boards and let them dry about a day. Both worked
perfectly. We of course immediately transferred the data to another
drive.

Worst case, i would suggest that your data on the platters will be
fine. Your electronics on the board may not fair so well from the
salt. If they fail, look on ebay for an identical drive. Swap the
electronics onto your old drive.

Hope this helps.
Danny
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 4:51:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1127521184.873172.184070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
aengster@gmail.com says...
>
>Hello All,
>
>We had to pull out in sort of a hurry -- Wasn't able to retrieve and
>pack *everything*. I guess I could probably google this up but thought
>I'd ask...
>
>Is there any experience/knowledge out there with CD/DVD's and hard
>drives that's sat under salt water for say 2-3 weeks? I've reckoned
>that everything else is replaceable but curious about those two forms
>of media.
>

I have no experience with that but I would imagine the CDs and DVDs would be
fine and the hard drives would be destroyed.
Related resources
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 7:51:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Chevdo" <chev@dont.com> wrote:
>
> I have no experience with that but I would imagine the CDs and DVDs
> would be fine and the hard drives would be destroyed.

Possibly, possibly not. The problem with salt water is that it is very
corrosive, so your goal is to get the stuff out of the salt water and
flushed out with clean water as quickly as possible.

CDs might be fine, but if the lacquer starts to peel and salt water gets
to the aluminizer layer, they will be destroyed very quickly.

Hard drives depend on how well the HDA is sealed. If the HDA venting
doesn't let water inside, you're okay and at worst you'll have to replace
the electronics. If you flush everything well with fresh water to get
the salt out, you may even be able to use the existing electronics. If
salt water gets inside the HDA, however, it's a goner.

Dunno about floppies or Zip disks, but again I'd give them a complete
flush with fresh water, then with distilled water to keep any salt or
dissolved material from winding up on them.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
September 24, 2005 9:56:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Tim Martin wrote:
> "Chel van Gennip" <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote in message
> news:3pm4ebFb44s2U1@individual.net...
> >
> > Even if there is salt water in the drive ...
>
> Well, I guess it's best to ask a hard disk designer, but I'd have thought it
> is even more impossible for water to get inside a disk drive than it is for
> it to get inside, say, a can of beer.
>
> It's a hermetically sealed container ... probably one of the most watertight
> containers you're likely to have in your house. You don't even have to wait
> to avoid condensation when taking them from a warm environment to a cold
> environment - the water vapour in the air can't get in.
>
> If water *vapour* can't get in, liquid water can't.
>
> Just wash the salt water off with clean water, leave the disk to dry out,
> and try it.
>
> Tim

I thought most HD had a small vent to equalize the air pressure inside
and out. The vent is sometimes partially sealed and it may stop liquid
water from getting in, or it may not. I'd clean the external
electronics with water before applying power, as has been mentioned,
and if you can find the vent perhaps open it and perhaps apply a vacuum
to remove any moisture that may have made its way inside.

Mark
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 10:13:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:23:44 +0200, danny wrote:

> This doesn't fully answer your question, but may offer hope. I was
> hired to remove a server from a burnt building to recover data. One
> external hard drive was fully submerged, the other heavily soaked. I
> unscrewed the boards and let them dry about a day. Both worked
> perfectly. We of course immediately transferred the data to another
> drive.

Before drying, clean with a lot of clean water (at drive temperature) to
remove salt etc. Carefully remove water with tissue. Give them enough time
to dry. Be patient, don't try too soon. If the data is really important
or if you are propperly insured, consider the help of experts.

I think both the CD's and DVD's will survive. Chances for DVD' are better
as the layer is completely enclosed.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 5:05:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 21:51:56 +0200, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Hard drives depend on how well the HDA is sealed. If the HDA venting
> doesn't let water inside, you're okay and at worst you'll have to
> replace the electronics. If you flush everything well with fresh water
> to get the salt out, you may even be able to use the existing
> electronics. If salt water gets inside the HDA, however, it's a goner.

Even if there is salt water in the drive, a professional can restore the
data, but not if you let the drive spin up before removing the pollution.
It is really hard to tell if there is any water in the drive. Depends on
the drive and the water level. Recovery can be expensive as it is a lot
of work in a clean room. So choices depend on the value of the data and
the budget. In the earea there will be a lot of dives with valuable
information. I would clean the outside with clean water and wait for some
information about recovery success and failure reports of others.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 5:05:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Chel van Gennip" <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote in message
news:3pm4ebFb44s2U1@individual.net...
>
> Even if there is salt water in the drive ...

Well, I guess it's best to ask a hard disk designer, but I'd have thought it
is even more impossible for water to get inside a disk drive than it is for
it to get inside, say, a can of beer.

It's a hermetically sealed container ... probably one of the most watertight
containers you're likely to have in your house. You don't even have to wait
to avoid condensation when taking them from a warm environment to a cold
environment - the water vapour in the air can't get in.

If water *vapour* can't get in, liquid water can't.

Just wash the salt water off with clean water, leave the disk to dry out,
and try it.

Tim
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 5:05:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Tim Martin <tim2718281@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>"Chel van Gennip" <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote in message
>news:3pm4ebFb44s2U1@individual.net...
>>
>> Even if there is salt water in the drive ...
>
>Well, I guess it's best to ask a hard disk designer, but I'd have thought it
>is even more impossible for water to get inside a disk drive than it is for
>it to get inside, say, a can of beer.
>
>It's a hermetically sealed container ... probably one of the most watertight
>containers you're likely to have in your house. You don't even have to wait
>to avoid condensation when taking them from a warm environment to a cold
>environment - the water vapour in the air can't get in.

Some drives are sealed. Some vent to outside air, with filters. Some are
mostly sealed, but have little pinholes to allow pressure to equalize.

Which of these is the case for any particular drive determines how screwed
you are going to be.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 5:05:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Tim Martin" wrote...
> Well, I guess it's best to ask a hard disk designer, but I'd have
> thought it
> is even more impossible for water to get inside a disk drive than it
> is for
> it to get inside, say, a can of beer.
>
> It's a hermetically sealed container ... probably one of the most
> watertight
> containers you're likely to have in your house.

Most of mine have (filtered) pinhole openings to equalize atmospheric
pressure. Many of them actually have wording on the label pointing to
the hole and warning to NOT cover it.

You might get lucky and end up with one that does not have water
infiltration, but I wouldn't bet MY data on it.
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 2:49:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Tim Martin wrote:

> "Chel van Gennip" <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote in message
> news:3pm4ebFb44s2U1@individual.net...
> >
> > Even if there is salt water in the drive ...
>
> Well, I guess it's best to ask a hard disk designer, but I'd have thought it
> is even more impossible for water to get inside a disk drive than it is for
> it to get inside, say, a can of beer.
>
> It's a hermetically sealed container ... probably one of the most watertight
> containers you're likely to have in your house. You don't even have to wait
> to avoid condensation when taking them from a warm environment to a cold
> environment - the water vapour in the air can't get in.
>
> If water *vapour* can't get in, liquid water can't.
>
> Just wash the salt water off with clean water, leave the disk to dry out,
> and try it.

It's not sealed at all.

Pressure equalisation is required. There's a tiny filtered vent.

It's possible not much water will get through though.

Best to take the drive to a data recovery service first rather than trash it. Be
prepared to pay a lot of money for their service though.

Graham
September 25, 2005 3:19:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

If it were me I'd pretend it was an outboard engine. Take it directly
out of the salt water and dunk it in fresh for a few minutes. You
could agitate. Rinse and repeat as the taxi driver says. Let it dry,
maybe a hair dryer if you're in a hurry. If it gets pulled out of the
saltwater and then dries for days I can't see how it would ever work
again but you have incredible good luck so I'm sure you will be fine.

On 24 Sep 2005 17:56:39 -0700, "Mark" <makolber@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Tim Martin wrote:
>> "Chel van Gennip" <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote in message
>> news:3pm4ebFb44s2U1@individual.net...
>> >
>> > Even if there is salt water in the drive ...
>>
>> Well, I guess it's best to ask a hard disk designer, but I'd have thought it
>> is even more impossible for water to get inside a disk drive than it is for
>> it to get inside, say, a can of beer.
>>
>> It's a hermetically sealed container ... probably one of the most watertight
>> containers you're likely to have in your house. You don't even have to wait
>> to avoid condensation when taking them from a warm environment to a cold
>> environment - the water vapour in the air can't get in.
>>
>> If water *vapour* can't get in, liquid water can't.
>>
>> Just wash the salt water off with clean water, leave the disk to dry out,
>> and try it.
>>
>> Tim
>
>I thought most HD had a small vent to equalize the air pressure inside
>and out. The vent is sometimes partially sealed and it may stop liquid
>water from getting in, or it may not. I'd clean the external
>electronics with water before applying power, as has been mentioned,
>and if you can find the vent perhaps open it and perhaps apply a vacuum
>to remove any moisture that may have made its way inside.
>
>Mark
September 25, 2005 3:24:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I was working at NASA in the early 90's. We had these 40MB Quantum
brand hard drives that were known for their motor dying. We had at
least a hundred of these in our division. When they died, we learned
we could take off the top of the drive and spin the platters manually.
The dieing motors would keep them spinning long enough to back up the
data. Another brand drive was famous for having its step motor die.
The manufacturer suggested that we take the rear of a screwdriver and
bang on the drive just above the location of the step motor. It worked
every time. We started to get a reputation as the base "go to" guys to
retreive data from dead hard drives.

Unfortunately, none of these techniques are very useful with today's
drives.

Danny
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 3:28:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

There are companies that specialize in recovering data from abused hard
drives. Not cheap, but depending on the value of your data this may be
worth consdering.
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 5:59:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:49:46 +0200, Pooh Bear wrote:
> Tim Martin wrote:
>
>> "Chel van Gennip" <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote in message
>> >
>> > Even if there is salt water in the drive ...
>>
.....
>>
>> It's a hermetically sealed container ... probably one of the most
>> watertight containers you're likely to have in your house.
....
>
> It's not sealed at all.
>
> Pressure equalisation is required. There's a tiny filtered vent.
>
> It's possible not much water will get through though.
>
> Best to take the drive to a data recovery service first rather than
> trash it. Be prepared to pay a lot of money for their service though.

I realised it has been some time since I opened a drive. I have an old
10GB Maxor drive dated apr2000. So I looked inside. The drive is
hermetically sealed, except for one singe ventilation hole. Behind this
vent there is an airfilter of about 2 cm3 with a carbon filter, maybe
moistabsorbing and a fine dust filter. Although it may survive some water,
it is not designed to survive your situation: a period of extremely low
air presure followed by several feet of salt water for weeks and high air
presure. The drive I inspected would most certainly got some water in.
About 10 vol% of water is quite possible. Water in the drive will stay in
the drive.

Best advice is indeed a data recovery service!

If you want to do it yourself, I think you will have to inspect the
inside, remove the water and do some cleaning (e.g. with isopropyl
alcohol). In the drive I inspected I could see the vent hole under the
circuit board at the side of the connectors. Underneath the circuitboard
there also was a sticker to seal an inspection hole. If you remove this
sticker and see any trace of water, you need to open the disk compartment
remove the water and clean the inside. Again: a data recovery service
knows how to do this with minimal risk.

If there is no trace of water behind the inspection sticker, you might try
to close the inspection hole, clean and reassemble the circuit board and
save your data aon a new drive.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 7:57:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chel van Gennip wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:49:46 +0200, Pooh Bear wrote:
> > Tim Martin wrote:
> >
> >> "Chel van Gennip" <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote in message
> >> >
> >> > Even if there is salt water in the drive ...
> >>
> ....
> >>
> >> It's a hermetically sealed container ... probably one of the most
> >> watertight containers you're likely to have in your house.
> ...
> >
> > It's not sealed at all.
> >
> > Pressure equalisation is required. There's a tiny filtered vent.
> >
> > It's possible not much water will get through though.
> >
> > Best to take the drive to a data recovery service first rather than
> > trash it. Be prepared to pay a lot of money for their service though.
>
> I realised it has been some time since I opened a drive. I have an old
> 10GB Maxor drive dated apr2000. So I looked inside. The drive is
> hermetically sealed, except for one singe ventilation hole. Behind this
> vent there is an airfilter of about 2 cm3 with a carbon filter, maybe
> moistabsorbing and a fine dust filter. Although it may survive some water,
> it is not designed to survive your situation: a period of extremely low
> air presure followed by several feet of salt water for weeks and high air
> presure. The drive I inspected would most certainly got some water in.
> About 10 vol% of water is quite possible. Water in the drive will stay in
> the drive.
>
> Best advice is indeed a data recovery service!
>
> If you want to do it yourself, I think you will have to inspect the
> inside, remove the water and do some cleaning (e.g. with isopropyl
> alcohol). In the drive I inspected I could see the vent hole under the
> circuit board at the side of the connectors. Underneath the circuitboard
> there also was a sticker to seal an inspection hole. If you remove this
> sticker and see any trace of water, you need to open the disk compartment
> remove the water and clean the inside. Again: a data recovery service
> knows how to do this with minimal risk.
>
> If there is no trace of water behind the inspection sticker, you might try
> to close the inspection hole, clean and reassemble the circuit board and
> save your data aon a new drive.

All of the above should really be done in a clean room of course !

Any dust particles that get in can crash the head.

Graham
September 25, 2005 7:57:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I've had great luck with these guys. Don't let the "jobs usually cost" price
throw you off. I've found them extremely reasonable for standard recovery
jobs.

www.1stdatarecovery.com

Mike.

--


mikerekka at hotmail dot com hates spam


"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4336BACF.80AFBD42@hotmail.com...
>
>
> Chel van Gennip wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:49:46 +0200, Pooh Bear wrote:
>> > Tim Martin wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Chel van Gennip" <chel@vangennip.nl> wrote in message
>> >> >
>> >> > Even if there is salt water in the drive ...
>> >>
>> ....
>> >>
>> >> It's a hermetically sealed container ... probably one of the most
>> >> watertight containers you're likely to have in your house.
>> ...
>> >
>> > It's not sealed at all.
>> >
>> > Pressure equalisation is required. There's a tiny filtered vent.
>> >
>> > It's possible not much water will get through though.
>> >
>> > Best to take the drive to a data recovery service first rather than
>> > trash it. Be prepared to pay a lot of money for their service though.
>>
>> I realised it has been some time since I opened a drive. I have an old
>> 10GB Maxor drive dated apr2000. So I looked inside. The drive is
>> hermetically sealed, except for one singe ventilation hole. Behind this
>> vent there is an airfilter of about 2 cm3 with a carbon filter, maybe
>> moistabsorbing and a fine dust filter. Although it may survive some
>> water,
>> it is not designed to survive your situation: a period of extremely low
>> air presure followed by several feet of salt water for weeks and high air
>> presure. The drive I inspected would most certainly got some water in.
>> About 10 vol% of water is quite possible. Water in the drive will stay in
>> the drive.
>>
>> Best advice is indeed a data recovery service!
>>
>> If you want to do it yourself, I think you will have to inspect the
>> inside, remove the water and do some cleaning (e.g. with isopropyl
>> alcohol). In the drive I inspected I could see the vent hole under the
>> circuit board at the side of the connectors. Underneath the circuitboard
>> there also was a sticker to seal an inspection hole. If you remove this
>> sticker and see any trace of water, you need to open the disk compartment
>> remove the water and clean the inside. Again: a data recovery service
>> knows how to do this with minimal risk.
>>
>> If there is no trace of water behind the inspection sticker, you might
>> try
>> to close the inspection hole, clean and reassemble the circuit board and
>> save your data aon a new drive.
>
> All of the above should really be done in a clean room of course !
>
> Any dust particles that get in can crash the head.
>
> Graham
>
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 8:22:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <dh4aos$i37$1@panix2.panix.com>, kludge@panix.com says...
>
>"Chevdo" <chev@dont.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have no experience with that but I would imagine the CDs and DVDs
>> would be fine and the hard drives would be destroyed.
>
>Possibly, possibly not. The problem with salt water is that it is very
>corrosive,

Yes, that's what I was thinking, however hard drives are well-sealed. But
surviving for 2 weeks, I doubt it. I think that's enough time to corrode the
platters enough to render them useless. Of course, if the hard drives were
turned on at the time of the flood, there's a much greater chance they're
unrecoverable.
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 9:16:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chevdo wrote:

> Yes, that's what I was thinking, however hard drives are well-sealed.

You are directly contradicting those here who have openened drives who
are telling you there are internal>external pressure equalization ports
in most hard drives.

So into which hard drives have you looked and found no such openings?

--
ha
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 9:34:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:57:19 +0200, Pooh Bear wrote:

>> Best advice is indeed a data recovery service!
>>
>> If you want to do it yourself, I think you will have to inspect the
>> inside, remove the water and do some cleaning (e.g. with isopropyl
>> alcohol). In the drive I inspected I could see the vent hole under the
>> circuit board at the side of the connectors. Underneath the
>> circuitboard there also was a sticker to seal an inspection hole. If
>> you remove this sticker and see any trace of water, you need to open
>> the disk compartment remove the water and clean the inside. Again: a
>> data recovery service knows how to do this with minimal risk.
>>
>> If there is no trace of water behind the inspection sticker, you might
>> try to close the inspection hole, clean and reassemble the circuit
>> board and save your data aon a new drive.
>
> All of the above should really be done in a clean room of course !
>
> Any dust particles that get in can crash the head.

As clean/dustfree as possible. Protect against dust from hair and cloth. A
real clean room might be a problem there now. The drive I examined had a
dustfilter that catches dust from the rotating air in the enclosure.
Again: a data recovery service is better equiped for the job! The data is
not lost by the flooding I think, but might easely get lost during
recovery.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 9:35:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chel van Gennip wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:57:19 +0200, Pooh Bear wrote:
>
> >> Best advice is indeed a data recovery service!
> >>
> >> If you want to do it yourself, I think you will have to inspect the
> >> inside, remove the water and do some cleaning (e.g. with isopropyl
> >> alcohol). In the drive I inspected I could see the vent hole under the
> >> circuit board at the side of the connectors. Underneath the
> >> circuitboard there also was a sticker to seal an inspection hole. If
> >> you remove this sticker and see any trace of water, you need to open
> >> the disk compartment remove the water and clean the inside. Again: a
> >> data recovery service knows how to do this with minimal risk.
> >>
> >> If there is no trace of water behind the inspection sticker, you might
> >> try to close the inspection hole, clean and reassemble the circuit
> >> board and save your data aon a new drive.
> >
> > All of the above should really be done in a clean room of course !
> >
> > Any dust particles that get in can crash the head.
>
> As clean/dustfree as possible. Protect against dust from hair and cloth. A
> real clean room might be a problem there now. The drive I examined had a
> dustfilter that catches dust from the rotating air in the enclosure.
> Again: a data recovery service is better equiped for the job! The data is
> not lost by the flooding I think, but might easely get lost during
> recovery.

I recall reading that a smoke particle's diameter is 10x the typical head to
platter distance ( fly height ) on todays' drives !

This really isn't a DIY job.

Graham
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 9:35:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Pooh Bear" wrote ...
> Chel van Gennip wrote:
>> As clean/dustfree as possible. Protect against dust from hair and
>> cloth. A
>> real clean room might be a problem there now. The drive I examined
>> had a
>> dustfilter that catches dust from the rotating air in the enclosure.
>> Again: a data recovery service is better equiped for the job! The
>> data is
>> not lost by the flooding I think, but might easely get lost during
>> recovery.
>
> I recall reading that a smoke particle's diameter is 10x the typical
> head to
> platter distance ( fly height ) on todays' drives !
>
> This really isn't a DIY job.

AMEN BROTHER!

You might just as well throw it in the trash as to open it
(unless you're just curious to see what is inside before
you trash it.)

This is why we make backups. (And keep them in zip-lock
plastic bags)
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 1:54:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1h3fw3t.1t54mqe8crpz9N%walkinay@thegrid.net>, walkinay@thegrid.net
says...
>
>Chevdo wrote:
>
>> Yes, that's what I was thinking, however hard drives are well-sealed.
>
>You are directly contradicting those here who have openened drives who
>are telling you there are internal>external pressure equalization ports
>in most hard drives.

no I am not. Hard drives are well-sealed. They are not completely sealed.
Please comprehend more effectively.


>
>So into which hard drives have you looked and found no such openings?
>
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 3:19:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <w0FZe.308205$on1.176551@clgrps13>, chevdo@chevdont.com says...
>
>In article <1h3fw3t.1t54mqe8crpz9N%walkinay@thegrid.net>, walkinay@thegrid.net
>says...
>>
>>Chevdo wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, that's what I was thinking, however hard drives are well-sealed.
>>
>>You are directly contradicting those here who have openened drives who
>>are telling you there are internal>external pressure equalization ports
>>in most hard drives.
>
>no I am not. Hard drives are well-sealed. They are not completely sealed.
>Please comprehend more effectively.
>

By the way even if I had thought hard drives were completely sealed and was
wrong, I would have no problem whatsoever with being wrong, unlike the
Fragile-ego Squad of this newsgroup. I like being wrong nearly as much as I
like being right, but thankfully the latter happens somewhat more frequently.


>
>>
>>So into which hard drives have you looked and found no such openings?
>>
>
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 4:00:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Chevdo" wrote ...
> ... I like being wrong nearly as much as I like being right, ...

I confess. I was wrong. I rescind my previous nomination, and
nominate THIS as the most remarkable posting of the month.

Oh, and I can re-plonk you just as fast as you can change
aliases. Hope you can get it together someday.
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 5:19:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Chevdo wrote:

> no I am not. Hard drives are well-sealed. They are not completely sealed.
> Please comprehend more effectively.

Either something is _sealed_ or something is not sealed, and if there
are pressure equalization ports the device is not sealed. This is a
pretty simple concept. So much for comprehension.

--
ha
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 5:19:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1h3gi9h.1393yif13o75osN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> Chevdo wrote:
>
>> no I am not. Hard drives are well-sealed. They are not completely
>> sealed.
>> Please comprehend more effectively.
>
> Either something is _sealed_ or something is not sealed, and if there
> are pressure equalization ports the device is not sealed. This is a
> pretty simple concept. So much for comprehension.
>
> --
> ha

Not wishing to get involved but unable to restrain myself, may I point out
that steering compasses for boats and aircraft are sealed (the fluid inside
doesn't leak out) but do have flexible diaphragms, sometimes very small,
made of rubber and even aluminum to equalized internal and external
pressures.

Steve King
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 5:19:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

hank alrich wrote:
> Chevdo wrote:
>
>
>>no I am not. Hard drives are well-sealed. They are not completely sealed.
>>Please comprehend more effectively.
>
>
> Either something is _sealed_ or something is not sealed, and if there
> are pressure equalization ports the device is not sealed. This is a
> pretty simple concept. So much for comprehension.

I don't know if they do or not but those pressure
equalization ports could easily have bellows on the inside
so as to remain sealed. They would if I was doing the
design just in case they were ever submerged. :-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 5:19:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bob Cain" wrote...
> I don't know if they do or not but those pressure
> equalization ports could easily have bellows on the inside
> so as to remain sealed. They would if I was doing the
> design just in case they were ever submerged. :-)

Yes, they *could*. But if you've ever taken a few apart,
you would know that they *don't*.
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 6:13:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Richard Crowley wrote:
> "Bob Cain" wrote...
>
>> I don't know if they do or not but those pressure equalization ports
>> could easily have bellows on the inside so as to remain sealed. They
>> would if I was doing the design just in case they were ever
>> submerged. :-)
>
>
> Yes, they *could*. But if you've ever taken a few apart, you would know
> that they *don't*.

Hmmm, I thought I said I didn't know. Thanks for the
suggestion anyway. Ida never thunk it.

Love your attitude, BTW.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 11:27:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bob Cain" wrote ...
> Love your attitude, BTW.

I apologize. I didn't mean it as a personal remark,
but I should have written it differently.
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 3:12:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Richard Crowley wrote:
> "Bob Cain" wrote ...
>
>> Love your attitude, BTW.
>
>
> I apologize. I didn't mean it as a personal remark,
> but I should have written it differently.

No sweat. I was overtired and that makes my skin thinner.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 11:02:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <IdOZe.271919$HI.251608@edtnps84>, Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca says...
>
>"Chevdo" <chevdo@chevdont.com> wrote:
>>
>> What part of 'I have no experience with that' do you not understand?
>
>
>The part where you WRITE A REPLY ANYWAY. Those with an ounce of common
>sense default to a "STFU" condition on subjects about which they know
>nothing.

Really, well few of the people who have offered their opinion on this subject
have had actual experience retrieving data from hard-drives and CDs that have
been submerged in salt-water for 2 weeks. Therefore I request that you stop
trolling me, you insufferable twit.
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 3:05:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Seems like there is lots of advice here but no experience! The vent on
hard drives is typically a sintered plug designed to act as a
microfilter to keep dust etc. out. It probably will also keep water out
for a while though it isn't a certainty. Most drives are not
hermeticially sealed. Sometimes there is a sticker over the vent which
will help seal the disk for a while.

As Scott notes salt water is very corrosive and your biggest problem is
usually the interface between air and water. If the disks are totally
under water of totally above water there will be a much greater chance
they won't be damaged. At the water-air interface corrosion will tend
to be rapid. Proper form for recovery would be to take ONE disk. Loosen
the circuit board and spray it with Dow "scrubbing bubbles" bathroom
cleaner.Tak a SOFT brush and lightly scrub the board. Rinse very
throughly under running warm water and finally rinse under distilled
water. Get some of those photo duster cans and carefully try to blow
all the water out from under parts etc. Put it aside and let it dry
for at least a couple of days. When dry look the board over at the
water line for hideous corrosion. If you see no serious damage you can
give it a try with the disk.

The disk itself should be rinsed with clear tap water (but not under
high pressure which could force water into the sintered plug). Then
rinse the outside with distilled water. Crud on the outside of the
housing makes little difference so long as the connectors are well
cleaned. Always blow out the water from the connectors before rinsing
with distilled water and then blow them out again!

If the first hard disk does not recover after this, it probably means
water got through the filter and the disk is now a goner. The other
disks you didn't try will have to be sent to a recovery place for
recovery in that event. Expect it to be expensive! If you think that
the problem may be the electronic board, you can get a good identical
drive and swap the working board from that unit. (Set all jumpers etc
to match your board.)

As Scott said CDs/DVDs probably will be OK, but again beware of the
air-salt water interface. If the disks have the metal layer sealed with
epoxy or other lable you stand a good chance they will be fine. I have
totally recovered commercial CDs that were laying along the road for
months! Recordable CDs are less sturdy. Tapes also can be saved but
require a big deal to do it. Basically you have to totally unwind them
in distilled water to clean them and then hang them up to dry (not
spooled). Once dry you can respool them or put them in to a new
cartridge housing.

There are cleaning machines that dry tapes after they are cleaned so
you can spool them immediately. Note that Huge amounts of tape can be
safely stored for drying in a large CLEAN box or on a CLEAN floor by
just winding it into a huge pile. But DO NOT disturb the pile before
rewinding back on to the spool or all will be lost!

For most floods I'd be pretty confident you'd get everything back, but
in this case it is the length of time under (salt) water that make me
worry that all may be lost. Sorry. Still a recovery attempt would be
worth the effort.

Benj
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 4:45:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bob Cain <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in
news:D h8e360am5@enews2.newsguy.com:

snip...snip

> Love your attitude, BTW.
> Bob



In light of your documented posting record, you are hardly in a credible
position to comment on so-called "attitude," you f...ing hypocrite.
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 12:49:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Chevdo" <chevdo@chevdont.com> wrote:
>
> Really, well few of the people who have offered their opinion on this
> subject have had actual experience retrieving data from hard-drives
> and CDs that have been submerged in salt-water for 2 weeks.



True, but most made well-reasoned arguments based on some understanding
of the mechanics and/or chemistry involved. You threw out a blind guess
with nothing to support it. Kind of like your completely erroneous
statement about sampling rate and waveform resolution.

You're a special case, whoever you are. You desperately want to be
considered an expert, but your blatant refusal to do the legwork
required to actually be one, combined with your attempts to discredit
those who have because they threaten your self-image, make you flash
brightly on the ridicule radar. If this was the Air Force, you'd be a
bogey. Since it isn't, you're just a booger.

You're flailing around in the deep end of the stupid pool. You keep
grasping at imaginary concepts to support yourself, but they don't float
so you just keep getting in deeper. In the meantime, you continue
taking swings at anyone who tries to save you from drowning.
Unfortunately your panic at discovering the weakness of your position is
causing you to spray piss all over the place. That's unpleasant for
everyone else who uses the pool, so I'm just throwing rocks at you in
the hope that you'll go down soon.

Of course, you could just learn to swim and everyone would get along
fine, but you don't seem interested in doing that.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 4:06:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:05:56 +0200, bjacoby wrote:

A lot of usable advice, but I have some comments.

> Seems like there is lots of advice here but no experience! The vent on
> hard drives is typically a sintered plug designed to act as a
> microfilter to keep dust etc. out. It probably will also keep water out
> for a while though it isn't a certainty.

I am afraid the plug won't stop the water. At start the air presure was
about 0.9 bar. A water level of 3 feet will give a presure of 0.1 bar.
The water had weeks to get in.

If the hole is behind foam behind the circuit board, as in the model I
inspected, the air buble behind the cirquit bord could have helped to get
air instead of water.

So it is quite likely there is water in the drive, but you can be lucky.

....
> If the first hard disk does not recover after this, it probably means
> water got through the filter and the disk is now a goner.

If the disk has a way to inspect it without opening. e.g. a large sticker
behind the circuit board. It is better to inspect it before spinning the
disk up. Spinning up a wet disk will reduce the chances for recovery.
Water in the drive is quite likely!

I think you can use isopropyl alcohol instead or after distilled water.

--
Chel van Gennip
Visit Serg van Gennip's site http://www.serg.vangennip.com
Anonymous
September 28, 2005 12:07:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Trolling attempt noted, but otherwise ignored.


In article <BI7_e.193193$wr.186486@clgrps12>, Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca says...
>
>"Chevdo" <chevdo@chevdont.com> wrote:
>>
>> Really, well few of the people who have offered their opinion on this
>> subject have had actual experience retrieving data from hard-drives
>> and CDs that have been submerged in salt-water for 2 weeks.
>
>
>
>True, but most made well-reasoned arguments based on some understanding
>of the mechanics and/or chemistry involved. You threw out a blind guess
>with nothing to support it. Kind of like your completely erroneous
>statement about sampling rate and waveform resolution.
>
>You're a special case, whoever you are. You desperately want to be
>considered an expert, but your blatant refusal to do the legwork
>required to actually be one, combined with your attempts to discredit
>those who have because they threaten your self-image, make you flash
>brightly on the ridicule radar. If this was the Air Force, you'd be a
>bogey. Since it isn't, you're just a booger.
>
>You're flailing around in the deep end of the stupid pool. You keep
>grasping at imaginary concepts to support yourself, but they don't float
>so you just keep getting in deeper. In the meantime, you continue
>taking swings at anyone who tries to save you from drowning.
>Unfortunately your panic at discovering the weakness of your position is
>causing you to spray piss all over the place. That's unpleasant for
>everyone else who uses the pool, so I'm just throwing rocks at you in
>the hope that you'll go down soon.
>
>Of course, you could just learn to swim and everyone would get along
>fine, but you don't seem interested in doing that.
>
>--
>"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
> - Lorin David Schultz
> in the control room
> making even bad news sound good
>
>(Remove spamblock to reply)
>
>
!