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No More Stat Loss? Is Seige obselete?

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September 23, 2004 4:21:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

I just came back to UO after a long hiatus and have noticed a few things
that appear to have changed:

1) Normal shards no longer have split facet of felucca/trammel, only trammel
now?
2) Seige is only trammel (i think it was always that way?)
3) No more stat loss for normal shards?
4) Pretty ghost town like on Seige? (probably due to #3 if it is true).

So if there is no more stat loss on normal shards, how is Seige different
anymore? I know its tougher because no vendors buy anything and things cost
a lot more, but other than that, it doesnt seem like it would be that much
different. PK can now roam normal shards all the same?

--
Thanks,
David
September 23, 2004 2:54:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

"David" <ask@formyaddress.com> wrote in message
news:1095924078.GvskySjrd3UOUsaQkhrt+w@teranews...
> I just came back to UO after a long hiatus and have noticed a few things
> that appear to have changed:
>
> 1) Normal shards no longer have split facet of felucca/trammel, only
trammel
> now?
The regular shards have Felucca/Trammel/Ilshenar/Malas and Tokuno Islands
(in November)
> 2) Seige is only trammel (i think it was always that way?)
Siege has every facet except Trammel. All facets on Siege and Mugen are Fel
ruleset (Non-con PVP)
> 3) No more stat loss for normal shards?
That went away a while back apparently.
> 4) Pretty ghost town like on Seige? (probably due to #3 if it is true).
Depends on if you listen to the Siege advocates on Stratics or not. The
abundance of open housing space would indicate a less populated shard.
>
> So if there is no more stat loss on normal shards, how is Seige different
> anymore? I know its tougher because no vendors buy anything and things
cost
> a lot more, but other than that, it doesnt seem like it would be that much
> different. PK can now roam normal shards all the same?
Reds are still stuck in Fel, and no matter how much they whine the devs
don't seem inclined to change that. They did change it to allow reds to
enter Fel towns though.
September 23, 2004 4:24:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

"David" <ask@formyaddress.com> wrote in message
news:1095924078.GvskySjrd3UOUsaQkhrt+w@teranews...
> I just came back to UO after a long hiatus and have noticed a few things
> that appear to have changed:
>
> 1) Normal shards no longer have split facet of felucca/trammel, only
trammel
> now?
> 2) Seige is only trammel (i think it was always that way?)
> 3) No more stat loss for normal shards?
> 4) Pretty ghost town like on Seige? (probably due to #3 if it is true).
>
I don't know what gave you these impressions...

1) Trammel and Felucca still exist, along with Ilshenar and Malas (both Tram
ruleset, but no marking runes in Ilsh). You can't use moonstones now though,
but you can recall straight into Fel, except dungeons and the lost lands.
There have been changes to PvP as there have to all combat, but I don't PvP
and couldn't explain them.

2)Siege has its own rules, and I think there has never been Tram or Fel
there?

3)Statloss has gone I beleive...but see 1) above :) 

4)A couple here play on SP, so maybe they can explain!

Archeon
> So if there is no more stat loss on normal shards, how is Seige different
> anymore? I know its tougher because no vendors buy anything and things
cost
> a lot more, but other than that, it doesnt seem like it would be that much
> different. PK can now roam normal shards all the same?
>
> --
> Thanks,
> David
>
>
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September 23, 2004 8:59:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

OKay, so I meant to say that seige was felucca only for britannia, obviously
all of the shards have access to all the other islands/facets.

My point about obsolesence was that the stat loss made even felucca on
normal shards a pointless place for non-con pvp since death for a PK was
still too painful. Seige solved that problem and provided some other "bonus'
features to make it a tougher place to play.

Since there is no more stat loss on regular shards, I dont see why anyone
would play on Seige anymore? The only reason I could see is if the other
islands allowed non-con pvp for the normal shards? ie: are PK limited *only*
to felucca, or just not in trammel on the normal shards? I think it would be
great if trammel was the safe area, and everything else was fair game, that
way there would be unique places where you had to risk death. Prohibiting PK
pleases newbies, but it gets boring very fast.

I would just stick with seige, but not for the following reasons:
- All the skill changes make it nearly impossible to have just one effective
character (account)
- It seems empty

--
Thanks,
David
"Magik" <magik87@putercom.org> wrote in message
news:CJudnWloQft9kM7cRVn-qQ@giganews.com...
> "David" <ask@formyaddress.com> wrote in message
> news:1095924078.GvskySjrd3UOUsaQkhrt+w@teranews...
>> I just came back to UO after a long hiatus and have noticed a few things
>> that appear to have changed:
>>
>> 1) Normal shards no longer have split facet of felucca/trammel, only
> trammel
>> now?
> The regular shards have Felucca/Trammel/Ilshenar/Malas and Tokuno Islands
> (in November)
>> 2) Seige is only trammel (i think it was always that way?)
> Siege has every facet except Trammel. All facets on Siege and Mugen are
> Fel
> ruleset (Non-con PVP)
>> 3) No more stat loss for normal shards?
> That went away a while back apparently.
>> 4) Pretty ghost town like on Seige? (probably due to #3 if it is true).
> Depends on if you listen to the Siege advocates on Stratics or not. The
> abundance of open housing space would indicate a less populated shard.
>>
>> So if there is no more stat loss on normal shards, how is Seige different
>> anymore? I know its tougher because no vendors buy anything and things
> cost
>> a lot more, but other than that, it doesnt seem like it would be that
>> much
>> different. PK can now roam normal shards all the same?
> Reds are still stuck in Fel, and no matter how much they whine the devs
> don't seem inclined to change that. They did change it to allow reds to
> enter Fel towns though.
>
>
September 24, 2004 3:37:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

"David" <ask@formyaddress.com> wrote in message
news:1095983959.7ZI0VnBWggCYvenl3SUcpA@teranews...
> Since there is no more stat loss on regular shards, I dont see why anyone
> would play on Seige anymore? The only reason I could see is if the other
> islands allowed non-con pvp for the normal shards? ie: are PK limited
*only*
> to felucca, or just not in trammel on the normal shards? I think it would
be
> great if trammel was the safe area, and everything else was fair game,
that
> way there would be unique places where you had to risk death. Prohibiting
PK
> pleases newbies, but it gets boring very fast.
PK's can ONLY kill in Fel. All other areas are safe and I don't find it
boring at all. Constantly getting whacked by kids with no life gets old
very fast. Been there, done that, quit for 5+ years because of it.

> I would just stick with seige, but not for the following reasons:
> - All the skill changes make it nearly impossible to have just one
effective
> character (account)
The Siege fantatics claim that that is what make it so great, no person is
an island. Crafters and other professions are supposed to be more valuable
there. Crafting is my favorite thing, but not willing to die for it.
> - It seems empty
See the previous comment about death...... Siege (and Fel on most shards)
are empty because the majority don't like getting ganked all the time. I
would assume the Japanese Mugen shard is the same.

Magik
A Pacific Trammie and proud of it.
Anonymous
September 24, 2004 11:45:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

"David" <ask@formyaddress.com> wrote in message
news:1095983959.7ZI0VnBWggCYvenl3SUcpA@teranews...
> OKay, so I meant to say that seige was felucca only for britannia,
obviously
> all of the shards have access to all the other islands/facets.
>
> My point about obsolesence was that the stat loss made even felucca on
> normal shards a pointless place for non-con pvp since death for a PK was
> still too painful. Seige solved that problem and provided some other
"bonus'
> features to make it a tougher place to play.
>
> Since there is no more stat loss on regular shards, I dont see why anyone
> would play on Seige anymore? The only reason I could see is if the other
> islands allowed non-con pvp for the normal shards? ie: are PK limited
*only*
> to felucca, or just not in trammel on the normal shards? I think it would
be
> great if trammel was the safe area, and everything else was fair game,
that
> way there would be unique places where you had to risk death. Prohibiting
PK
> pleases newbies, but it gets boring very fast.
>
> I would just stick with seige, but not for the following reasons:
> - All the skill changes make it nearly impossible to have just one
effective
> character (account)
> - It seems empty
>
> --
> Thanks,
> David
> "Magik" <magik87@putercom.org> wrote in message
> news:CJudnWloQft9kM7cRVn-qQ@giganews.com...
> > "David" <ask@formyaddress.com> wrote in message
> > news:1095924078.GvskySjrd3UOUsaQkhrt+w@teranews...
> >> I just came back to UO after a long hiatus and have noticed a few
things
> >> that appear to have changed:
> >>
> >> 1) Normal shards no longer have split facet of felucca/trammel, only
> > trammel
> >> now?
> > The regular shards have Felucca/Trammel/Ilshenar/Malas and Tokuno
Islands
> > (in November)
> >> 2) Seige is only trammel (i think it was always that way?)
> > Siege has every facet except Trammel. All facets on Siege and Mugen are
> > Fel
> > ruleset (Non-con PVP)
> >> 3) No more stat loss for normal shards?
> > That went away a while back apparently.
> >> 4) Pretty ghost town like on Seige? (probably due to #3 if it is true).
> > Depends on if you listen to the Siege advocates on Stratics or not. The
> > abundance of open housing space would indicate a less populated shard.
> >>
> >> So if there is no more stat loss on normal shards, how is Seige
different
> >> anymore? I know its tougher because no vendors buy anything and things
> > cost
> >> a lot more, but other than that, it doesnt seem like it would be that
> >> much
> >> different. PK can now roam normal shards all the same?
> > Reds are still stuck in Fel, and no matter how much they whine the devs
> > don't seem inclined to change that. They did change it to allow reds to

I've recently started playing on Siege, and it's not a ghost shard.
I know why many people think it is - I nearly made the same mistake in my
first week there - most players avoid the standard towns - Luna and Moonglow
are usually exceptions.

There are at least two dozen player-run towns, of varying sizes, and very
few of them are ghost towns - depending on where the players come from, and
when their normal 'playtime' is.

One of the things about it that I thought I'd hate, but now find I like, is
the lack of insurance. Blessed items are extremely rare, too. So, most
people tend to pick their fights more carefully, and there's (almost) none
of the normal shard gangs of brightly coloured idiots covered in artifacts
running around. PvP actually requires some skill, rather than brute force,
or 'whoever has the best toys wins'. It's fun, but I can see that it won't
be everyone's cup of tea.

Oh, and also contrary to popular opinion, it's not crawling with PvP'ers and
PK'ers. They're there, but there are also a TON of crafters, who are doing
very well - because of a lack of the usual BOD runners, very little eBay
support, and the lack of insurance.

The housing situation's not as bad as other shards, sure - but you'll still
struggle to find a plot for a decent sized house. 10X10 seems to be the
current maximum available plot size, unless you're lucky enough to find one
about to collapse.

All facets use the fel rule set - which makes Doom very interesting! The
one-character limitation is something I'm still not quite sure I like or
not, but it does make you think a bit more carefully about what skills you
want, and what you want your character for. This is probably the thing
that's the hardest to get your head around - the 'rules' or popular
standards that would make a good character on another shard don't apply 100%
on Siege. Most characters end up with hiding and magery on their character,
for example, which means a minimum of 120 points are already used up - 60
magery to gate off scrolls, and 60 hiding to be able to hide most of the
time. But, again, it makes you think more, and most of the other characters
you meet are in the same boat. The emphasis on RP'ing helps, too.

I've been there for about a month, and I can't see myself leaving any time
soon. I'm probably going to sell off my house on Europa to build one there
sometime in the next 3 months - it's a lot more fun than Fel or Trammel ever
were on any of the other shards I've played.

But, I can see why not everyone else would want to go there. It's harder,
you have to plan ahead more, and there's no safety net.

On the plus side, I won my first PvP match (ever) this week, and the guy I
killed had a 100% LRC suit in his pack, which will make my training a lot
cheaper! :) 
Anonymous
September 24, 2004 7:47:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

David wrote:
> OKay, so I meant to say that seige was felucca only for britannia, obviously
> all of the shards have access to all the other islands/facets.
>
> My point about obsolesence was that the stat loss made even felucca on
> normal shards a pointless place for non-con pvp since death for a PK was
> still too painful. Seige solved that problem and provided some other "bonus'
> features to make it a tougher place to play.

IIRC SP has never had stat loss and still became a ghost town. A ton of
the big PvP advocates were in reality exploiters and bug users. Kind of
funny but after they cleaned up the cheaters and bug users from SP there
weren't a lot of people left.

You see the real thing that made felucca/PvP obsolete/pointless was
cheating and cheap shots. You'd be somewhere and someone would fast walk
on screen, freeze lag you with an exploit, by the time you could move
again you would be dead, then they'd use an illegal 3rd party program to
dry loot you.
>
> Since there is no more stat loss on regular shards, I dont see why anyone
> would play on Seige anymore?

There were too many changes suggested by PKs to make SP a place where no
one else could survive i.e. NPC vendors buy nothing, no recall, tools
wear out. That led to a stagnant monolith of shard with no diversity.
>
> I would just stick with seige, but not for the following reasons:
> - All the skill changes make it nearly impossible to have just one effective
> character (account)
> - It seems empty

There are a few other characters that make a lot of gold but die to PKs
because of skill cap. You make more gold then the PKs but you die
everytime they show up. I have a GM lockpicker there with a lot of gold.
My 2nd account has a GM tamer that does OK if they stay out of the hot
spots like dungeons and just take the surface spawn in places like
Ilshenar. Both my characters are GM mages which is probably enough to
make all the gold they need escorting and monster harvesting to survive.
Anonymous
September 25, 2004 12:54:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:52:37 -0700, "David" <ask@formyaddress.com> wrote:

>Your assumption is totally wrong. The reason Felucca has become a ghost town
>is becuase all the people who enjoy a little challenge and fear have LEFT
>THE GAME. UO's subscription counts are around 250k which is far below EQ and

Wow! Amazing! UO's numbers have never changed since it's heyday. I
guess ...

Eh, screw it. I'm not getting trolled into debate with a PK.

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
September 25, 2004 12:54:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

1) im not a PK, in fact, i used to complain to OSI in the beginning b/c I
got PK'd all the time. It was not until after they took it away that I
realized how important it was. I personally enjoyed banding together with
other justice oriented characters to whack the PK's that hung out around
Despise entrance on Catskills. Killing the AI Monsters have never given me
the same satisfaction as putting down a PK. IF you want to think I was a PK,
then nothing anyone says will cure you from your own blinders.
2) Im not advocated rampant ability to kill other players

All I was saying is that there should be some unique places where there is a
challenge and risk. I agree that there should be plenty of safe areas
available. The way that you have it now tho, is that every unique area is
protected, the only risk areas are just "copies' of the regular world, so
there is no incentive to go there. There should be unique evil-controlled
areas where evil characters can thrive. Only go there if you are up to the
challenge, renew the bounties system and make it work properly. Make huge
payoffs for killing notorious killers.

Another problem with all these protected rules are that now you dont know
who the jerks are. Before, if someone was red, you fought or ran and tried
to get away. Now, you see people enter the dungeon, you dont know if they
are truly good or bad. People try to box you in or lure monsters towards you
to make you die. I would rather know who the real enemies are then deal with
same assholic behavior, but now labeled "Great Lord".

Im not trolling you, if you think the game is perfect, sweet, good for you.
My point is that I think it could be better and still accomodate everyone's
preferences. A game should have a little balance as to safety and risk, and
currently it just feels like everyone is being coddled. No big deal, I wont
go past my 30 days. My questions of "I wonder if UO has gotten better, I
heard they did away with stat loss" have been answered.

--
Thanks,
David
"Polychromic" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8929l0dp76pjtsn291iart85g8q7fv99l9@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:52:37 -0700, "David" <ask@formyaddress.com> wrote:
>
>>Your assumption is totally wrong. The reason Felucca has become a ghost
>>town
>>is becuase all the people who enjoy a little challenge and fear have LEFT
>>THE GAME. UO's subscription counts are around 250k which is far below EQ
>>and
>
> Wow! Amazing! UO's numbers have never changed since it's heyday. I
> guess ...
>
> Eh, screw it. I'm not getting trolled into debate with a PK.
>
> --
> Michael Cecil
> http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
September 25, 2004 4:23:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

"David" <ask@formyaddress.com> wrote in message
news:1096051954.S8R6WLLF2eYFvcfYkpzEAA@teranews...

> And no, I am not nor ever have been a PK, I have always been a blue, but I
> realized very quickly that a unrealistic happy-controlled world is boring.

For you.
For the many, many players of UO who choose not to visit Fel, the world is
what you make of it. Your experience is limited largely by your imagination.

Archeon
September 25, 2004 4:32:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

"David" <ask@formyaddress.com> wrote in message
news:1096060515.XHmy1hMNWRLnDR1z/v/MwQ@teranews...
> All I was saying is that there should be some unique places where there is
a
> challenge and risk. I agree that there should be plenty of safe areas
> available.


Not a bad idea... it is perhaps silly that Fel is a mirror of Tram( or
vice-versa really). However, that thought process led to the monopoly of
powerscrolls by the few PKs at the expense of the many who enjoyed Champ
Spawns not only for scrolls, but because of the way people fought together.
I do not understand why OSI has always pandered to the smallest though most
vociferous group. Surely the pre-Ren outflow of players and subsequent
abandonment of Fel should teach them that you risk alienating the majority
of your customers at your peril. A sensible business model it aint.

I loved the champ spawns pre the changes, but otherwise am fairly happy with
the game now. It seems that the dev team are thinking about what might make
our lives more fun now.

Archeon
(only go to Fel for logs)
Anonymous
September 29, 2004 11:01:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.online (More info?)

Ice wrote:


> BTW, that was only after they changed it so you could not be killed in town.
> The first month, you _could_ be killed in town.
>

Heh, that brings back a memory of being killed IN MY ROOM at the
Sweet Dreams in the heart of Brittain.


--
YOU are the real piece of work in this post. I think you are
a couple of drumsticks short of a picnic there bud. - SVTKate
!