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FDISK /MBR Will save you headaches!!

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November 28, 2003 9:56:56 PM

I noticed that you have as your monogram FDISK reinstall.

Well that made me reply to your post in this manner.

Are you aware of the FDISK /MBR command. If you are constantly doing an FDISK then reinstalling windows I can tell you why right now why you could have a potential and hidden nasty problem

Using FDISK and reformatting your hard drive then reinstalling Windows DOES NOT completely clean the hard drive.
I will tell you why that is right now. ON ALL HARD DRIVES there is a little control chip it is called a EEPROM or a Electronically Erasable Programmable Rom chip.
This little chip also contains a MASTER boot record file for the hard drive.
If you have ever heard of a Virus called a MASTER BOOT RECORD VIRUS well this is where these viruses hide.
You could do a FDSIK and Format 50000 times and you will never get a FRESH install on any Windows Operating System.
What you need to do is make a WIN98 boot floppy from a place like www.bootdisc.com
Now after you do the standard FDSIK remove the old Physical partitions from the hard drive that's the magnetic platters.
YOU NEED to do a FDISK /MBR what this will do is clean the EEPROM chip controller on the hard drive.
To do this load up that Win98 floppy and boot the computer and hit F8 until you can select BOOT IN SAFE MODE yep boot the computer off the Win98 Floppy in SAFE MODE make sure the floppy is write protected.
Now once at a DOS prompt type in FDISK /MBR and let it run after it finishes do it 2 more times.
Now you have both wiped out the old partitions on the hard drive and cleaned any memory stored in the ROM chip that could contain a Master boot virus.
Now you can reboot and do a new FDISK. This function works for WIN95, 98 and Windows XP.
After a FDISK to clean the drive in XP simply use the floppy in safe mode to clean the ROM chip using FDISK /MBR then reboot the system with the Windows XP cd and it will allow you to format in the NTFS file format.
I tell you this because I hate to think of all the people out in the world that think they are repairing and replacing the Windows operating system simply using FDSIK to clean the hard drive and reload Windows. I know they all feel so good about having a BRAND NEW operating system because they think its bug free when in fact NO it has corrupted files possibly a master boot record virus hidden in the ROM Controller chip on the hard drive.
DO YOUR FDISK /MBR's guys it will lead you to a fresh clean install.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
November 29, 2003 4:37:40 AM

Hi all... just signed up today and this was the first topic I've peeked @. Just wanted to ask the other geeks out there... isn't the MBR at the beginning of the HDD (cylinder 0, head 0, sector 1 - or something like that)?

Anyhoo, I agree that fdisk /mbr is still useful. Usually good for wacking other bootloaders like LILO ;-)

-Matt
November 29, 2003 6:35:40 AM

You really shouldn't have posted this all over the place. Anyway, it is useful, but should be used rarely (who reinstalls windows more than once a month under normal circumstances?). AFAIK, boot sector viruses are quite rare, too. Anyway, this post is quite unnecessary except for those who desire this very specific piece of information. This entire thread is essentially pointless...which is pretty much what we have learned to expect from you.

Damn Rambus.
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November 29, 2003 7:01:57 PM

LOL!

<font color=blue>"If you want the rainbow, you’ve gotta put up with the rain. Do you know which philosopher said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she’s just a big pair of tits.” - David Brent</font color=blue>
November 30, 2003 5:53:19 PM

Ok, now I feel guilty.
The first time I saw this post I was like 'waddafuk?' (think Benicio del Toro in the Usual Suspects) so I was going to reply to it but since nobody replied in any of the forums (he crossposted to at least 3 diff. ones) I eventually assumed Son of Dumbasses' aura of stupidity was solid enough no one would give any credit to this.
So, short answer, he made this up, what matt_nux says is the correct answer.
Long answer: http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/struct_MBR.htm
November 30, 2003 8:19:04 PM

I replied to this guys repeated post in a couple of the other threads. I also critisized some bad advice he gave somone in the memory section.

You should see the private message this lunatic sent me. (I'm sure I'd get banned if I posted it here) This PM he sent is full of homophobic filth. SoDnighthawk is a twisted little angry man.

SoDnighthawk if your reading this take some good advice and grow up. You will get nowhere in life trying to be a forum tough guy. You need to chill out relax, Only a weak man would send such a cowardly private message. You could certainly never intimidate me.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
November 30, 2003 9:13:47 PM

You are reading material for the PLATTERS inside the hard drive yes they do have a MBR master boot record and that is what they talk about in your post.

The control chip also has a MBR as I explained in my post. If you want to reload Windows without using an FDISK /MBR go right ahead.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
November 30, 2003 11:29:12 PM

You can never admit that you are wrong, can you. I've never used FDISK /MBR, and my computer runs a hell of a lot better than yours I'd imagine. I reload XP every three months too, but never because I had a problem, just a preemptive strike in a way. /MBR really isn't necessary, in fact, the GREAT majority of people have no clue about it and their computers are running fine, even if they reinstall Windows frequently.

This brings me to my next point, not only were you WRONG about your information (which, I admit, I did not recognize because I only knew what /MBR did, but not how it worked), but you posted it all over the place, POINTLESSLY. What were you trying to do??? A decent portion (if not all) of the regulars here know what /MBR is and don't need to be told about it. The n00bs don't give a [-peep-] about it because they all have specific, unrelated, questions and are generally trying looking to upgrade or fix a minor glitch. Again, what were you trying to do?? Oh yeah, if you want respect in this place, don't bully, don't troll, and get your f-ing facts straight.

Damn Rambus.
November 30, 2003 11:39:08 PM

Oh man, bullying now, too? SOD is f-ed up.
Quote:
You should see the private message this lunatic sent me.

PM it this way--I'm gonna see if I can get him banned (who would I see about that?), and if I can't, I'll have fun using his own words against him if he doesn't fix his ways.

Anyway, you're right, he does have a MAJOR problem with giving false information. He also has a problem with admitting his fault (you can never take that 'first step to recovery' can you SOD?). He should either leave (voluntarily or forcefully) or clean up his act.

Damn Rambus.
December 1, 2003 12:40:45 AM

FDISK /MBR is the only DOS command available to erase the EEPROM on the hard drive. It is an Electronically Erasable Programmable Rom Chip. This is how IC's are programmed in the electronics industry. I have worked in high tech for 20 years I have personally used PILOT PROGRAMMING software to program IC's that are fed via a plastic feeder stick into Robots for chip placement onto circuit boards.
I am sorry you will never have the education I have. I have more BA's after my last name then you have colours of nail polish.
The fact that you cant accept that your were born short the whole cookie jar is not my problem.
Oh I also now own a computer store after working for Nortel Networks and JDS Unifase as well as The Ontario Centre For Micro Electronics.
We use the FDSIK /MBR every time a patron brings in a computer with a master boot record virus or even for a fresh clean and wipe.
You see we charge them money to make sure they get a brand new Hard drive install the fact that you have residual viruses remaining in your EEPROM Master Boot Record controller chip is the reason I posted the information in the first place so none educated individuals like you could learn something important.

The fault you keep getting side tracked on is you think the Master Boot Record is in the hard drive and I keep trying to tap on that grey matter you have so you can realize there is a separate MBR on a computer chip soldered to the circuit board of the Hard Drive that is used during your FDISK command to ensure the read write and boot sectors are formatted into the drive in the correct locations and that they are verified.
Where in hell do you think all that marvellous information is stored and refreshed during your FDISK command.
Every hard rive made has this controller chip start reading your DOS programming and hardware device schematics. If you can read schematics.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
December 1, 2003 3:21:13 AM

Quote:
FDISK /MBR is the only DOS command available to erase the EEPROM on the hard drive. It is an Electronically Erasable Programmable Rom Chip.

Yeah, kinda figured that one out...awhile ago. It is pretty useless otherwise though. How often do most people reinstall windows? <b>Never.</b> How often does ANYBODY get a boot sector virus? <b><i>RARELY, IF EVER.</b></i> What is the urgency of this post?? Why did you post it ALL OVER THE PLACE?? Or do you have the 'new word syndrom' that little kids have? In case you don't know what it is (I can't imagine your attempted bullying gets you any women), it's when a kid learns a word and uses it constantly...i.e., you just learned this bit of trivial knowledge and now you feel that it is your job to enlighten a world that just doesn't give a [-peep-].

Quote:
I am sorry you will never have the education I have. I have more BA's after my last name then you have colours of nail polish.

Funny, I don't have nail polish. Guess you don't have any BA's, but rather a lot of BS. Oh yeah, I also go to the best high school in the world (Phillips Exeter Academy, if you've ever heard of it)...funny how are wrong again!

Quote:
The fact that you cant accept that your were born short the whole cookie jar is not my problem.

Never heard that one before and I don't know what it means. Diss gone wrong.

Quote:
Oh I also now own a computer store after working for Nortel Networks and JDS Unifase as well as The Ontario Centre For Micro Electronics.
We use the FDSIK /MBR every time a patron brings in a computer with a master boot record virus or even for a fresh clean and wipe.
You see we charge them money to make sure they get a brand new Hard drive install the fact that you have residual viruses remaining in your EEPROM Master Boot Record controller chip is the reason I posted the information in the first place so none educated individuals like you could learn something important.

Blah, blah, blah. Do you think ANYBODY here cares about your BS degrees or where you work(ed)?

I'm glad you use /MBR...it works well, but is unnecessary when only reinstalling windows. I can't imagine you get too many people with master boot record viruses, either; last time I checked, they were kinda rare.

Oh wow, now you call me a "none educated individual"?? Isn't it uneducated (I guess all your BS's didn't teach you English)?? Also, if you had half a brain, wouldn't you not tell anybody about /MDR so that you might make more money (e.g., a potential customer sees your many posts and doesn't go to you for servicing). The rest of that sentence is so grammatically incorrect I can't make a statement on it. Maybe if you would fix it I could continue arguing this paragraph.

Quote:
The fault you keep getting side tracked on is you think the Master Boot Record is in the hard drive and I keep trying to tap on that grey matter you have so you can realize there is a separate MBR on a computer chip soldered to the circuit board of the Hard Drive that is used during your FDISK command to ensure the read write and boot sectors are formatted into the drive in the correct locations and that they are verified.

You think I made all these posts?? You give me too much credit. I honestly didn't know how /MBR worked (nor did I care), only that it did, which I clearly stated before, I believe. As for how it works, I have no reason to believe you...all of your prior posts have been wrong.

Anyway, I hope this isn't too much for you to handle (it probably is, getting the fact straight that ATi does not put the nomenclature 'Ultra' in their lineup was tough enough for you [you remember those good ol' 9800Ultras you were talking about before, right?]).

Damn Rambus.
December 1, 2003 7:12:59 AM

I hate it when a troll makes me write stuff. However I must admit you've been able to create enough confusion as it is right now. So here we go Nightdork.

1- You're wrong. The functionality of chip you're talking about exists only in your head. There's only one MBR, and it's in the platters. Quoting from MSKB:

"What is the MBR?
At the end of the ROM BIOS bootstrap routine, the BIOS reads and executes the first physical sector of the first floppy or hard disk on the system. This first sector of the hard disk is called the master boot record (or sometimes the partition table or master boot block). There is a small program at the beginning of this sector of the hard disk. The partition information, or partition table, is stored at the end of this sector. This program uses the partition information to determine which partition is bootable (usually the first primary DOS partition) and attempts to boot from it. " Need a link?

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http://s...

Now, I realize you don't know what 'sector' means, and you can't tell it apart from a chip. Read this:

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/tracks.htm

2-You're right. Like the first link states, FDISK /MBR will rewrite the boot sector and that is something a regular fdisk won't do if there's already an MBR present.

3-Number 2 doesn't really matter. Unless the store you own specializes in pcs that don't use XP, there's really no reason to use that command. Why? because on XP you have the Recovery Console. That means you don't need any win 98 boot discs (for the most part) as it has the 'fixmbr' command that will accomplish the same, then you can use 'diskpart' and the regular 'format' command. It has lots of other handy utilities. Check it out:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314058

BTW, in my experience it's very common that you don't get the RC automatically. As the article suggests, press F10 (like crazy) as soon as you see the blue screen from the XP cd. ABout 2-3 min later you'll be in recovery console. Bear in mind that if the default admin account has a password, you'll need it to enter RC.

4-Suggestion. See those links I used? you should give it a try. That way you have something that backs up what you're saying and nobody will call you stupid, moron, etc. which would be a very ugly thing.

You're very welcome
December 1, 2003 8:02:51 AM

The guy lives in a dream world. He made some preposturous statements in the Games forum and tried to knock me with some pathetic, and blatantly untrue comments.

The guy is a complete arsehole and a troll. He should bugger off back under his bridge.

<font color=blue>"If you want the rainbow, you’ve gotta put up with the rain. Do you know which philosopher said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she’s just a big pair of tits.” - David Brent</font color=blue>
December 1, 2003 5:32:41 PM

The message I sent you fits the mentality you have and that is not very high.

Ban a person off Toms Hardware guide for providing useful information that people can use. This is not a Childs clan site you kids can get lousy on, it is a Message board for people seeking help for hardware and software issues.

The fact that you and your groupies never post anything worth a [-peep-] accept your system specs and you think Tom's Hardware guide is a chat room only confirms that you have no business using it.

Your goal in life apparently is to yell at anyone that helps anyone out because you did not know about something or think about it first.

Well I have been in electronics for over 20 years and know things you will never understand outside of what your friends tell you and since they know even less then you presume you do your going to be sitting around twiddling your thumbs for a long time.

Your problem and people like you is you want to withhold information and control it because it makes you feel like your something more then just a computer junkie.

It makes me feel great to help people out and the MBR on the EEPROM can and is erased using the FDISK /MBR command and the reason for using it as I posted in the original thread was to delete Master boot record Viruses like ( KLEZ ) and the ( Majesty Virus ) that propagate through a computer system using DOS, YES!! even in XP.

Unless a system is complete wiped clean including the Memory by complete removal of Power to the system the Virus will propagate even to the floppy disc that I said to use as write protected so it does not write its self to the floppy then infect another P.C in your own home or in our shop on other customers computers.

In fact Klez and the Majesty virus are so infectious that we do complete system scans on the store server and all computers we use for diagnostics in the store, Including our digital phone network every Friday evening.
In future I will not again reply to you or any of he morons you pass-wind-with on Tom's Hardware guide there are other people on here that use it for its purpose and not a chat room.

»§øЫÑighthåwk™ Don't get mad at the player get mad at the game. Hackers drool and Skill's rule.
December 1, 2003 7:40:54 PM

Re: The message I sent you fits the mentality you have and that is not very high.

LMAO more of your tough guy sticks and stones. Like you know anything about me.

Re: Ban a person off Toms Hardware guide for providing useful information that people can use. This is not a Childs clan site you kids can get lousy on, it is a Message board for people seeking help for hardware and software issues.

I'm not trying to get you banned but if I gota vote I'd vote to ban you. You just don't seem to be all there. Plus you’re extremely irritating. If you get banned its your own doing.

Re: The fact that you and your groupies never post anything worth a [-peep-] accept your system specs and you think Tom's Hardware guide is a chat room only confirms that you have no business using it.

I dare ya to find 1 irrelevant post made by me. The only thing useless I have talked about is you.

Re: Well I have been in electronics for over 20 years and know things you will never understand outside of what your friends tell you and since they know even less then you presume you do your going to be sitting around twiddling your thumbs for a long time.

Whatever more of your useless dribble.


Re: Your goal in life apparently is to yell at anyone that helps anyone out because you did not know about something or think about it first.

You got an example?


Re: Your problem and people like you is you want to withhold information and control it because it makes you feel like your something more then just a computer junkie.

What are you Froid? What information are you using to draw this conclusion?


Re: In future I will not again reply to you or any of he morons you pass-wind-with on Tom's Hardware guide there are other people on here that use it for its purpose and not a chat room.

Well at least that’s a start. Just so you know this is a free forum to express our opinions and seek advice..that being said when someone gives incorrect or bad advice (something you do a lot of) someone who knows otherwise should step in and offer their opinion. If not the person seeking advice might be harmed. If I read any more posts by you and I believe the info to be incorrect I'll be there to point it out, you can count on that.


If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
December 1, 2003 11:07:12 PM

Can any moderator clean this thread from nonsense which have been written
December 2, 2003 6:18:49 AM

Why?

<font color=blue>"If you want the rainbow, you’ve gotta put up with the rain. Do you know which philosopher said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she’s just a big pair of tits.” - David Brent</font color=blue>
December 2, 2003 9:39:55 AM

Think about it. Yasin could have been made up by Son of Dribble and since this thread is proof of his, shall we say, 'limitations' he might want it gone.
Then again he's posted all over the place all sorts of crap, so it'll be a titanic effort on his part, I don't know.
December 2, 2003 10:50:10 AM

Let's leave this thread as it is, 'cos it's quite amusing, ans as you say, shows up his shortcomings. Got to love flame wars!

<font color=blue>"If you want the rainbow, you’ve gotta put up with the rain. Do you know which philosopher said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she’s just a big pair of tits.” - David Brent</font color=blue>
December 3, 2003 3:19:22 AM

Quote:
I will tell you why that is right now. ON ALL HARD DRIVES there is a little control chip it is called a EEPROM or a Electronically Erasable Programmable Rom chip.
This little chip also contains a MASTER boot record file for the hard drive.

Error! The MBR is normally stored on the first sector of the hardrive, this information is simply a small data structure that identifies where an OP/SYS is located on the drive so that the OP/SYS can be loaded into the systems memory (RAM) at boot time.


FDISK /MBR is used to restore the MBR to an operational system that has a corrupted MBR, which can easily be avoided in the first place by having the (MBR Virus Protection) feature active in the CMOS setup.


Now if you've really come across an infected hardrive, IMO, it would be best, (if you plan to put the drive back in service), to use a factory hardrive Diagnostics disk, for the particular brand hardrive, to wipe the drive completely clean and recertify the drive.


<b>*****</b><b>Missster Anderson!,,,Welcome Back!</b><b>*****</b>
December 3, 2003 3:57:35 PM

I hate to say this, but an EEPROM will not get erased by taking off the power. There is actually an EEPROM on the HDD controller, it is used to store drive geometrics and firmware. AFAIK it doesn't store the MBR (I have no proof of this, but it seems to me completely pointless and HDD manufacturers are not inclined to include pointless features on their products. Besides, I never heard of this). The EEPROM can be flashed on some drives (but I doubt on all). That makes it theoretically possible to infect the EEPROM with a virus, but it seems highly unlikely to me that all drive brands would be affected.

A search on symantec.com revealed no viruses that would infect the HDD's EEPROM. Unless someone posts a link to show otherwise I consider this thread as nonsense.
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