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The way we hear the natural world

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Anonymous
August 27, 2004 11:19:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Ever heard of 4 way active speakers? No need for speakers cable. And better
still all valve (but to some that would be bad).
I don't know the price and dare not ask. The speakers got their own control
for "Depth", "warmth", "presence", "sparkle" and "level". This guy is pretty
genius. Nobody can complain about lack of depth or warmth and a new
terminology "sparkle".

The site is bit confusing but it contains wealth of information that is
required for High End. One which was an interest to me (and people like me)
is the education section. Here are some excerpts:-

"Myths and Legends.
For many years I have been asked to write and give seminars on valve
amplifiers. Valve technology is intrinsically the most elegant means by
which a speaker is able to reproduce music. This is not because valves have
magical qualities but because the technology by which they function is not
achievable by other means."

and

"Why do Valve Amplifiers sound different?

When technology changed from valve to solid-state, it was noticed that
solid-state amplifiers lacked warmth and bass performance, and had to be
twice as powerful as valve amplifiers, to sound as loud....snip..snip.".

Read more by following the links below

see here for the speakers
http://www.lenardaudio.com/05_opal.html

AND for the education section see here
http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/14_valve_amps.html

cheers.

More about : hear natural world

Anonymous
August 28, 2004 7:00:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

I don't know about the sound of the natural world business, but if I
sell my fridge and my stove I might have enough space for these
babies! I'll just get chinese and pizza every other night - perfect!
You might laugh at the thought of something that huge and extravagant,
but there will always be the guy with a pair in his "spare room"
laughing loudest! Great link! I think I'll continue to save for the
Utopia Be's though...
-Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250


"Chelvam" <chelvam@myjaring.net> wrote in message
news:cgo1fb02pct@news3.newsguy.com...
> Ever heard of 4 way active speakers? No need for speakers cable. And
better
> still all valve (but to some that would be bad).
> I don't know the price and dare not ask. The speakers got their own
control
> for "Depth", "warmth", "presence", "sparkle" and "level". This guy
is pretty
> genius. Nobody can complain about lack of depth or warmth and a new
> terminology "sparkle".
>
> The site is bit confusing but it contains wealth of information that
is
> required for High End. One which was an interest to me (and people
like me)
> is the education section. Here are some excerpts:-
>
> "Myths and Legends.
> For many years I have been asked to write and give seminars on valve
> amplifiers. Valve technology is intrinsically the most elegant means
by
> which a speaker is able to reproduce music. This is not because
valves have
> magical qualities but because the technology by which they function
is not
> achievable by other means."
>
> and
>
> "Why do Valve Amplifiers sound different?
>
> When technology changed from valve to solid-state, it was noticed
that
> solid-state amplifiers lacked warmth and bass performance, and had
to be
> twice as powerful as valve amplifiers, to sound as
loud....snip..snip.".
>
> Read more by following the links below
>
> see here for the speakers
> http://www.lenardaudio.com/05_opal.html
>
> AND for the education section see here
> http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/14_valve_amps.html
>
> cheers.
>
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 3:30:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

"Uptown Audio" <uptownaudio@rev.net> wrote in message
news:cgq6m001e1b@news3.newsguy.com...
> I don't know about the sound of the natural world business, but if I
> sell my fridge and my stove I might have enough space for these
> babies! I'll just get chinese and pizza every other night - perfect!
> You might laugh at the thought of something that huge and extravagant,
> but there will always be the guy with a pair in his "spare room"
> laughing loudest! Great link! I think I'll continue to save for the
> Utopia Be's though...
> -Bill
> www.uptownaudio.com
> Roanoke VA
> (540) 343-1250
>
>
> "Chelvam" <chelvam@myjaring.net> wrote in message
> news:cgo1fb02pct@news3.newsguy.com...
> > Ever heard of 4 way active speakers? No need for speakers cable. And
> better
> > still all valve (but to some that would be bad).
> > I don't know the price and dare not ask. The speakers got their own
> control
> > for "Depth", "warmth", "presence", "sparkle" and "level". This guy
> is pretty
> > genius. Nobody can complain about lack of depth or warmth and a new
> > terminology "sparkle".
> >
> > The site is bit confusing but it contains wealth of information that
> is
> > required for High End. One which was an interest to me (and people
> like me)
> > is the education section. Here are some excerpts:-
> >
> > "Myths and Legends.
> > For many years I have been asked to write and give seminars on valve
> > amplifiers. Valve technology is intrinsically the most elegant means
> by
> > which a speaker is able to reproduce music. This is not because
> valves have
> > magical qualities but because the technology by which they function
> is not
> > achievable by other means."
> >
> > and
> >
> > "Why do Valve Amplifiers sound different?
> >
> > When technology changed from valve to solid-state, it was noticed
> that
> > solid-state amplifiers lacked warmth and bass performance, and had
> to be
> > twice as powerful as valve amplifiers, to sound as
> loud....snip..snip.".
> >
> > Read more by following the links below
> >
> > see here for the speakers
> > http://www.lenardaudio.com/05_opal.html
> >
> > AND for the education section see here
> > http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/14_valve_amps.html
> >
> > cheers.
> >
>

Boy they sure are pretty. The speaker parts seems almost straight forward
enough but the amps and the control descriptions... well it sounds sorta'
mythilogical to me.
Carl
Related resources
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 6:20:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

"Chelvam" <chelvam@myjaring.net> wrote in
news:cgo1fb02pct@news3.newsguy.com:


> AND for the education section see here
> http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/14_valve_amps.html
>
> cheers.
>

The article is wrong in so many different ways, it is hard to decide where
to start.

I like the part where speakers operate at 0-40 volts. I have yet to see a
speaker operate at a constant 0 volts.

"60Watts is the minimum power capacity for an amplifier to bring quality
speakers to life with full fidelity."

The above article is certainly filled with many opinions and very few
facts.


r




--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 6:58:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 4 Sep 2004 14:20:38 GMT, "Rich.Andrews" <bvzxrpl@swissinfo.org>
wrote:

>"Chelvam" <chelvam@myjaring.net> wrote in
>news:cgo1fb02pct@news3.newsguy.com:
>
>
>> AND for the education section see here
>> http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/14_valve_amps.html
>>
>> cheers.
>>
>
>The article is wrong in so many different ways, it is hard to decide where
>to start.
>
>I like the part where speakers operate at 0-40 volts. I have yet to see a
>speaker operate at a constant 0 volts.
>
>"60Watts is the minimum power capacity for an amplifier to bring quality
>speakers to life with full fidelity."
>
>The above article is certainly filled with many opinions and very few
>facts.

Agreed, and many of the 'facts' quoted are utter rubbish, vide SS amps
are 'voltage drive' but valve amps are 'current drive'. Utter rubbish
in and of itself, and the conclusions drawn regarding speaker drive
are also rubbish. I can't imagine who really would have invited this
clown to give a 'seminar' on valve amplifiers, but they certainly
didn't get value for money!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
September 8, 2004 3:56:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Stewart Pinkerton <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<chf9i201af5@news4.newsguy.com>...

>snip..snip..

>
> Agreed, and many of the 'facts' quoted are utter rubbish, vide SS amps
> are 'voltage drive' but valve amps are 'current drive'. Utter rubbish
> in and of itself, and the conclusions drawn regarding speaker drive
> are also rubbish. I can't imagine who really would have invited this
> clown to give a 'seminar' on valve amplifiers, but they certainly
> didn't get value for money!

Isn't that true? When I was considering a valve Amp I could not find
one with a minimum 50W/C output (that I can afford) which is the
minimum requirement for my speakers. The one I was offered was a 30W
Valve Amp and was told it got enough power to drive my speakers. When
I queried further, I was told Valve output is different from SS ‘coz
they are current oriented. IMHLK, I thought watt= Volt x Ampere. And
30W is 30w irrespective of valve or tube, right?

That was the same story I heard many many years ago when I was looking
for my car Amp. One so called High current solid state Amp capable of
driving large sub.

But in real life, at one demo a 18W/c ouput valve Amp was driving a
speaker which the minimum recommended power was 30w. (figures may not
be accurate due to bad memory).

Unless speakers behave differently when fed with higher current as
opposed to higher voltage.

OK, don't bash me if my question is too simple for EE folks. And I
already tried google for High Current but unable to pick the correct
link that can explain.
Anonymous
September 9, 2004 3:29:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 7 Sep 2004 23:56:40 GMT, tchelvam@hotmail.com (TChelvam) wrote:

>Stewart Pinkerton <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<chf9i201af5@news4.newsguy.com>...
>
>>snip..snip..
>>
>> Agreed, and many of the 'facts' quoted are utter rubbish, vide SS amps
>> are 'voltage drive' but valve amps are 'current drive'. Utter rubbish
>> in and of itself, and the conclusions drawn regarding speaker drive
>> are also rubbish. I can't imagine who really would have invited this
>> clown to give a 'seminar' on valve amplifiers, but they certainly
>> didn't get value for money!
>
>Isn't that true? When I was considering a valve Amp I could not find
>one with a minimum 50W/C output (that I can afford) which is the
>minimum requirement for my speakers. The one I was offered was a 30W
>Valve Amp and was told it got enough power to drive my speakers. When
>I queried further, I was told Valve output is different from SS ‘coz
>they are current oriented. IMHLK, I thought watt= Volt x Ampere. And
>30W is 30w irrespective of valve or tube, right?

Correct. The oft-quoted difference in power requirement exists because
medium-quality valve amps have little open-loop gain and hence not
much feedback, and they tend to 'soft clip' with less audible
harshness than the hard clip typical of SS amps (and top-class valve
amps!). As a result, many people find that a hard-driven 30 watt valve
amp sounds no more harsh than a 60 watt SS amp at the same 'light
clipping' sound level. NAD have used soft limiters in the past to
achieve the same effect, but of course this simply *degrades* the
sound below clipping.

It's a matter of personal choice whether one prefers this degradation,
as opposed to near-perfect linearity followed by a sudden clip. The
obvious solution is to choose a SS amp/speaker combination with
sufficient SPL capability that it will seldom if ever clip! One of the
nice things about digital sources is that the 'FFFF' full output level
can readily be set so that you *know* the power amp will never clip.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
!