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Do I need a new amp?

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October 5, 2004 3:58:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Hi,
I'm trying to build a midto high-fi audio system on a reasonable
budget for 80% audio and 20% movies. Right now I'm sticking to 2
channel but would like the option to upgrade in time. I'm worried my
amp is lower in quality then my speakers and subwoofer and was hoping
to get some advice as to whether I should return the amp/receiver in
favor of higher quality. Are my strong speakers and sub being wasted
with my mediocre receiver?

- Receiver - Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K
(http://reviews.cnet.com/Pioneer_VSX_1014TX_K/4507-6466_...)

- Main speakers - Soliloquy 5.0s
(http://www.solspeak.com/sol_products/i_monitors.php)

- Subwoofer - Audio Physic Luna
(http://www.aanvilaudio.u-net.com/ap_luna_1.htm)

My speaker cables are decent 12AWG and I will have qulity RCA
interconnects. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

-Dave

More about : amp

Anonymous
October 5, 2004 7:05:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

"Dave" <msacks@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cjso2d083p@news1.newsguy.com...
> Hi,
> I'm trying to build a midto high-fi audio system on a reasonable
> budget for 80% audio and 20% movies. Right now I'm sticking to 2
> channel but would like the option to upgrade in time. I'm worried my
> amp is lower in quality then my speakers and subwoofer and was hoping
> to get some advice as to whether I should return the amp/receiver in
> favor of higher quality. Are my strong speakers and sub being wasted
> with my mediocre receiver?
>
> - Receiver - Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K
>
(http://reviews.cnet.com/Pioneer_VSX_1014TX_K/4507-6466_...
spec)
>
> - Main speakers - Soliloquy 5.0s
> (http://www.solspeak.com/sol_products/i_monitors.php)
>
> - Subwoofer - Audio Physic Luna
> (http://www.aanvilaudio.u-net.com/ap_luna_1.htm)
>
> My speaker cables are decent 12AWG and I will have qulity RCA
> interconnects. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

You don't mention your sources (CD, DVD-V, DVD-A, SACD, turntable?) which
may have to do more with sound quality than your receiver. I suspect your
receiver is okay, unless your speakers are particularly low in impedance.

Since you are only interested in stereo at the moment, you might wish to
consider investing in a really good integrated or preamp-amp combination,
and feeding the output of your DVD player directly into the TV (video) or if
it doesn't have switched inputs, through an auto-switch box (Radio Shack)
and run the audio into the amp. Then later when you are ready to go
surround, buy the best surround preamp-processor you can afford and use the
power amp (or power section of the integrated) as a basic power amp in the
system.

But on balance I would probably leave the system as is, unless you got a
full refund from the dealer and he had an amplifier that really floated your
boat.
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 3:57:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Dave <msacks@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm trying to build a midto high-fi audio system on a reasonable
> budget for 80% audio and 20% movies. Right now I'm sticking to 2
> channel but would like the option to upgrade in time. I'm worried my
> amp is lower in quality then my speakers and subwoofer and was hoping
> to get some advice as to whether I should return the amp/receiver in
> favor of higher quality.

> - Receiver - Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K
> (http://reviews.cnet.com/Pioneer_VSX_1014TX_K/4507-6466_...)

http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_detail.jsp?produ...
http://www.service.pioneer-eur.com/peeservice/instrmanu...$File/ARB7311_VSX-1014.pdf

What do you think is the problem with this receiver ? Maybe it is not
expensive enough ? In fact I am impressed with its price and features.
It has i.Link, Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration Circuit (MCACC) and
is sold online for less than $400:

http://shopper.cnet.com/Pioneer_VSX_1014TX_K/4014-6466_...

Thta is probably the cheapest receiver with i.Link yet ?

> Are my strong speakers and sub being wasted
> with my mediocre receiver?

Continuous Power Output (Stereo or Multichannel)
120 W + 120 W (DIN 1kHz, THD 1%, 8 ohms

Rated Power Output . . . . . . . . . 110W+110W
(20Hz 20kHz, 0.09%, 8 ohms)

Frequency Response . . .5 Hz to 100,000 Hz dB (+0/-3 dB)

Not sure what is mediocre about it. Ok, the distorsion seem a bit
high at 0.09%. A comparable Yamaha receiver is specced at 0.06%
(at 50 W), but the Pioneer VSX-AX5i-s has similar specs and it
was _measured_ by hifiworld (March 2004) at 0.007% distorsion.

So I think the 0.09% is because Pioneer wants to show lots of watts
on their spec sheets even at the cost of showing some distorsion.
But anyway 0.09% is still below 0.1% which is the limit of audibility.

Looking to the hifiworld test, the -3dB on the frequency response
is above 40Khz. Below it is very nearly flat.

> - Main speakers - Soliloquy 5.0s
> (http://www.solspeak.com/sol_products/i_monitors.php)

# Freq. Response: 45Hz - 20kHz
# Sensitivity: 88db
# Nominal Impedance: 10 ohms Compatible: 8 ohms
# Power Handling: 15-200 watts

> - Subwoofer - Audio Physic Luna
> (http://www.aanvilaudio.u-net.com/ap_luna_1.htm)

> My speaker cables are decent 12AWG and I will have qulity RCA
> interconnects. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

> -Dave

--
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/

..pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94
Related resources
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 4:00:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

FWIW. I just replaced a Sony DA2ES receiver with the 1014TX-K. The
receiver you have has plenty of clean power. It 's great on
everything from cannons to violin and piano. The only thing I've
found to improve it is to turn off the dialogue enhance feature.
Dialogue enhance seems to add an objectionable unnatural quality to
everything.

If you use the automatic room equalizer setting it up, it makes a
great receiver/amplifier. I had to get a mono extender cable for the
microphone from Radio Shack. My listening position is about 19 ft
from the front main speakers. I use mine for HT and mostly classical
music. It sounds too good to spend money on a higher end unit.

I find that in stereo mode, this receiver is remarkably good ...
better than in direct mode ... which disables the equalizer setup.


On 5 Oct 2004 03:05:53 GMT, "Harry Lavo" <harry.lavo@rcn.com> wrote:

>"Dave" <msacks@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:cjso2d083p@news1.newsguy.com...
>> Hi,
>> I'm trying to build a midto high-fi audio system on a reasonable
>> budget for 80% audio and 20% movies. Right now I'm sticking to 2
>> channel but would like the option to upgrade in time. I'm worried my
>> amp is lower in quality then my speakers and subwoofer and was hoping
>> to get some advice as to whether I should return the amp/receiver in
>> favor of higher quality. Are my strong speakers and sub being wasted
>> with my mediocre receiver?
>>
>> - Receiver - Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K
>>
>(http://reviews.cnet.com/Pioneer_VSX_1014TX_K/4507-6466_...
>spec)
>>
>> - Main speakers - Soliloquy 5.0s
>> (http://www.solspeak.com/sol_products/i_monitors.php)
>>
>> - Subwoofer - Audio Physic Luna
>> (http://www.aanvilaudio.u-net.com/ap_luna_1.htm)
>>
>> My speaker cables are decent 12AWG and I will have qulity RCA
>> interconnects. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>
>You don't mention your sources (CD, DVD-V, DVD-A, SACD, turntable?) which
>may have to do more with sound quality than your receiver. I suspect your
>receiver is okay, unless your speakers are particularly low in impedance.
>
>Since you are only interested in stereo at the moment, you might wish to
>consider investing in a really good integrated or preamp-amp combination,
>and feeding the output of your DVD player directly into the TV (video) or if
>it doesn't have switched inputs, through an auto-switch box (Radio Shack)
>and run the audio into the amp. Then later when you are ready to go
>surround, buy the best surround preamp-processor you can afford and use the
>power amp (or power section of the integrated) as a basic power amp in the
>system.
>
>But on balance I would probably leave the system as is, unless you got a
>full refund from the dealer and he had an amplifier that really floated your
>boat.
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 3:39:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro <rps@rena.mat.uc.pt> wrote:
> Dave <msacks@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I'm trying to build a midto high-fi audio system on a reasonable
> > budget for 80% audio and 20% movies. Right now I'm sticking to 2
> > channel but would like the option to upgrade in time. I'm worried my
> > amp is lower in quality then my speakers and subwoofer and was hoping
> > to get some advice as to whether I should return the amp/receiver in
> > favor of higher quality.

> > - Receiver - Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K
> > (http://reviews.cnet.com/Pioneer_VSX_1014TX_K/4507-6466_...)

> http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_detail.jsp?produ...
> http://www.service.pioneer-eur.com/peeservice/instrmanu...$File/ARB7311_VSX-1014.pdf

> What do you think is the problem with this receiver ? Maybe it is not
> expensive enough ? In fact I am impressed with its price and features.
> It has i.Link, Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration Circuit (MCACC) and
> is sold online for less than $400:


> http://shopper.cnet.com/Pioneer_VSX_1014TX_K/4014-6466_...

> Thta is probably the cheapest receiver with i.Link yet ?

I think i-link is found only on the 55, 56, and 59Txi
models currently, not this one.


--
-S
Your a boring little troll. How does it feel? Go blow your bad breath elsewhere.
October 7, 2004 3:48:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

> You don't mention your sources (CD, DVD-V, DVD-A, SACD, turntable?) which
> may have to do more with sound quality than your receiver. I suspect your
> receiver is okay, unless your speakers are particularly low in impedance.
>

Sources will be CD/SACD and a digital media player for internet radio
and mp3 playlists.

> Since you are only interested in stereo at the moment, you might wish to
> consider investing in a really good integrated or preamp-amp combination,
> and feeding the output of your DVD player directly into the TV (video) or if
> it doesn't have switched inputs, through an auto-switch box (Radio Shack)
> and run the audio into the amp. Then later when you are ready to go
> surround, buy the best surround preamp-processor you can afford and use the
> power amp (or power section of the integrated) as a basic power amp in the
> system.

Ok, I threw the Pioneer on eBay and I think I'm going with a Xindak
XA-6900SE with a Xindak SACD. My concern now is that I'll have to turn
this thing on hours in advance before it reaches its sound potential.
I would also like to leave it on all the time, but I doubt that's
smart since the amp and CD have some tubes running inside. Can I leave
on all the time?


>
> But on balance I would probably leave the system as is, unless you got a
> full refund from the dealer and he had an amplifier that really floated your
> boat.

Thanks for the comments.
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 9:10:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 6 Oct 2004 23:48:00 GMT, msacks@gmail.com (Dave) wrote:

>Ok, I threw the Pioneer on eBay and I think I'm going with a Xindak
>XA-6900SE with a Xindak SACD.

Fascinating choice! Can't see how it's going to approach say a Pioneer
868 and any decent SS amp, but there y'go.

> My concern now is that I'll have to turn
>this thing on hours in advance before it reaches its sound potential.
>I would also like to leave it on all the time, but I doubt that's
>smart since the amp and CD have some tubes running inside. Can I leave
>on all the time?

Better still, don't use tubed components....................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 9:16:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> wrote:
> Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro <rps@rena.mat.uc.pt> wrote:
>> > - Receiver - Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K

>> http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_detail.jsp?produ...
>> http://www.service.pioneer-eur.com/peeservice/instrmanu...$File/ARB7311_VSX-1014.pdf

>> What do you think is the problem with this receiver ? Maybe it is not
>> expensive enough ? In fact I am impressed with its price and features.
>> It has i.Link, Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration Circuit (MCACC) and
>> is sold online for less than $400:

>> That is probably the cheapest receiver with i.Link yet ?

> I think i-link is found only on the 55, 56, and 59Txi
> models currently, not this one.

The VSX-1014 and VSX-2014 are new models:
http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_overview.jsp?cat...

On the page of the VSX-1014:
http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_detail.jsp?produ...

it says:
"This model also includes the i.LINK interface, the industry standard
for the secure transmission of high resolution audio."

But I have now found that this is wrong. The manual mentions the
i.LINK interface but it says "VSX-2014i model only." And looking
at the back panels:

http://www.pioneer-eur.com/images/products/avamplifierr...
http://www.pioneer-eur.com/images/products/avamplifierr...

one sees that the VSX-2014i does have i.LINK but the VSX-1014 does not.

--
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/

..pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 9:16:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

I wrote:

> On the page of the VSX-1014:
> http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_detail.jsp?produ...

> it says:
> "This model also includes the i.LINK interface, the industry standard
> for the secure transmission of high resolution audio."

> But I have now found that this is wrong. The manual mentions the
> i.LINK interface but it says "VSX-2014i model only." And looking
> at the back panels:

> http://www.pioneer-eur.com/images/products/avamplifierr...
> http://www.pioneer-eur.com/images/products/avamplifierr...

> one sees that the VSX-2014i does have i.LINK but the VSX-1014 does not.

I also mailed the above to the Pioneer webmaster and less than 45
minutes later she replied that the errors on the web pages were
corrected. You can still find the old versions in the Google cache:

http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_...
http://www.google.pt/search?q=cache:LNxqUPEeV8AJ:www.pi...

http://www.pioneer.es/es/product_detail.jsp?product_id=...
http://www.google.pt/search?q=cache:1jbXQ6OeFpcJ:www.pi...

--
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/

..pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94
October 8, 2004 7:20:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Stewart Pinkerton <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<ck57h202r4e@news2.newsguy.com>...
> On 6 Oct 2004 23:48:00 GMT, msacks@gmail.com (Dave) wrote:
>
> >Ok, I threw the Pioneer on eBay and I think I'm going with a Xindak
> >XA-6900SE with a Xindak SACD.
>
> Fascinating choice! Can't see how it's going to approach say a Pioneer
> 868 and any decent SS amp, but there y'go.

Bang for the buck and that's all. I found an outstanding deal (25% of
list price) on slightly used (9/10) components for which I've read
several outstanding reviews. The reviewers praise Xindak and put
overall sound and quality on par with much more expensive Linn and
Arcam equipment.

>

>
> Better still, don't use tubed components....................

I'm new to tubes, but one purist after another has a completely
different message so I decided to find out for myself. I think you're
in the minority on this one.
October 8, 2004 7:21:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

>
> What do you think is the problem with this receiver ? Maybe it is not
> expensive enough ?

I'm paying the same for the upgraded equipment (although I am buying
used.)

> In fact I am impressed with its price and features.

It does have impressive features- most of which I don't need which is
one of the reasons I'm replacing.

> It has i.Link, Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration Circuit (MCACC) and
> is sold online for less than $400:

> But anyway 0.09% is still below 0.1% which is the limit of audibility.

Actually human audibility limit is about 1%, 10x your figure.
Nonethelss, this wasn't a concern of mine. My concern was overall
sound quality. I read enough negative reviews about Pioneer to
reinforce this decision.
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 8:56:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

msacks@gmail.com (Dave) wrote in message news:<ck6b8102v29@news3.newsguy.com>...
> Stewart Pinkerton <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<ck57h202r4e@news2.newsguy.com>...
> > On 6 Oct 2004 23:48:00 GMT, msacks@gmail.com (Dave) wrote:
> >
> > >Ok, I threw the Pioneer on eBay and I think I'm going with a Xindak
> > >XA-6900SE with a Xindak SACD.
> >
> > Fascinating choice! Can't see how it's going to approach say a Pioneer
> > 868 and any decent SS amp, but there y'go.
>
> Bang for the buck and that's all. I found an outstanding deal (25% of
> list price) on slightly used (9/10) components for which I've read
> several outstanding reviews.

Hmmm. A slightly used amp should go for more than 25% of list. That IS
a good deal, if this amp is everything you say it is.

> The reviewers praise Xindak and put
> overall sound and quality on par with much more expensive Linn and
> Arcam equipment.

Reviewers tend to praise everything, especially everything with a
serious price tag. But if this thing meets spec (100w/ch, 0.05% THD!),
then its sound quality should definitely be on a par with Arcam et al.
>
> >
>
> >
> > Better still, don't use tubed components....................
>
> I'm new to tubes, but one purist after another has a completely
> different message so I decided to find out for myself.

Well, purists always have a completely different message. But $500
isn't a lot to spend on an experiment with tube amplification. You can
probably sell it for more than you paid (assuming it's in good working
order), if you decide it's not your cup of tea.

> I think you're
> in the minority on this one.

No, purists are always in the minority. Otherwise, they wouldn't be
purer than anybody else.

bob
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 7:23:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

On 8 Oct 2004 15:20:33 GMT, msacks@gmail.com (Dave) wrote:

>Stewart Pinkerton <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<ck57h202r4e@news2.newsguy.com>...
>> On 6 Oct 2004 23:48:00 GMT, msacks@gmail.com (Dave) wrote:
>>
>> >Ok, I threw the Pioneer on eBay and I think I'm going with a Xindak
>> >XA-6900SE with a Xindak SACD.
>>
>> Fascinating choice! Can't see how it's going to approach say a Pioneer
>> 868 and any decent SS amp, but there y'go.
>
>Bang for the buck and that's all. I found an outstanding deal (25% of
>list price) on slightly used (9/10) components for which I've read
>several outstanding reviews. The reviewers praise Xindak and put
>overall sound and quality on par with much more expensive Linn and
>Arcam equipment.

Ah well, you'll soon be able to find out if you agree with them! :-)

>> Better still, don't use tubed components....................
>
>I'm new to tubes, but one purist after another has a completely
>different message so I decided to find out for myself.

Finding out for yourself is always a good idea, but no true purist
would choose a tube amp. They may *call* themselves 'purists', but
that would imply a preference for pure uncoloured sound, and that is
certainly *not* why people choose tube amps! If you want a 'straight
wire with gain', then you choose a solid-state amp, period.

>I think you're
>in the minority on this one.

Since it's a plain fact that tube amps account for a very small
minority of sales to 'high-end' audiophiles - 'purists' if you will, I
really have no idea from where you get such an opinion.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 7:48:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

"Dave" <msacks@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ck6b8102v29@news3.newsguy.com...
> Stewart Pinkerton <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<ck57h202r4e@news2.newsguy.com>...
> > On 6 Oct 2004 23:48:00 GMT, msacks@gmail.com (Dave) wrote:
> >
> > >Ok, I threw the Pioneer on eBay and I think I'm going with a
Xindak
> > >XA-6900SE with a Xindak SACD.
> >
> > Fascinating choice! Can't see how it's going to approach say a
Pioneer
> > 868 and any decent SS amp, but there y'go.
>
> Bang for the buck and that's all. I found an outstanding deal (25%
of
> list price) on slightly used (9/10) components for which I've read
> several outstanding reviews. The reviewers praise Xindak and put
> overall sound and quality on par with much more expensive Linn and
> Arcam equipment.

I would only point out that there is no list price on used equipment,
and a 25% discount is not unusual for brand new waranteed equipment.

Norm Strong
!