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REQ: Clone Copy Not Bootable

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June 9, 2005 1:20:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Help please.

I tried upgrading to a new hard drive, using Ghost, just to see how it
works.

The machine is a Dell with XP Home version (SP2).

The 'clone' function seemed to work fine. The copy looks complete on
the target drive. I compared the content of source and target, using
Windows Explorer, and they look the same.

But, the new drive is not bootable. The drive is jumper ed right and
the BIOS recognizes the drive. I tried this three times.

This suggests to me that the new drive needs to be made bootable
somehow. (I used that option in Ghost)

Is there a way that I can render the new drive bootable?

Thank you
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 1:20:06 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

A cloned drive is not bootable until you physically jumper and connect the
clone "exactly" as the original drive is jumpered and connected. You can not
clone drive C: (old drive) to drive D: (new drive) and expect it to boot,
until you connect the new drive as drive C:.

Remember, a cloned drive is a replacement drive. So, replace your old drive!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!


"godzilla" <me@here.com> wrote in message
news:vc2ga1977qovr2sr26btl5oeannr1emgh5@4ax.com...
> Help please.
>
> I tried upgrading to a new hard drive, using Ghost, just to see how it
> works.
>
> The machine is a Dell with XP Home version (SP2).
>
> The 'clone' function seemed to work fine. The copy looks complete on
> the target drive. I compared the content of source and target, using
> Windows Explorer, and they look the same.
>
> But, the new drive is not bootable. The drive is jumper ed right and
> the BIOS recognizes the drive. I tried this three times.
>
> This suggests to me that the new drive needs to be made bootable
> somehow. (I used that option in Ghost)
>
> Is there a way that I can render the new drive bootable?
>
> Thank you
June 9, 2005 3:19:55 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:14:23 -0400, "Richard Urban"
<richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:

>A cloned drive is not bootable until you physically jumper and connect the
>clone "exactly" as the original drive is jumpered and connected. You can not
>clone drive C: (old drive) to drive D: (new drive) and expect it to boot,
>until you connect the new drive as drive C:.
>
>Remember, a cloned drive is a replacement drive. So, replace your old drive!


No - sorry. I wasn't clear enough. In addition to doing all that I
said, I did remove the original c drive and connected the new one as c
drive (jumper-ed of course) (Primary Master). That's when system
would not boot.

Thank You for response.

God
Related resources
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 3:19:56 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Is the C: partition marked Active?
--
Ron Sommer

"godzilla" <me@here.com> wrote in message
news:lc9ga19k3kdbdlmmtecgcro8c3m59qcdug@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:14:23 -0400, "Richard Urban"
> <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>A cloned drive is not bootable until you physically jumper and connect the
>>clone "exactly" as the original drive is jumpered and connected. You can
>>not
>>clone drive C: (old drive) to drive D: (new drive) and expect it to boot,
>>until you connect the new drive as drive C:.
>>
>>Remember, a cloned drive is a replacement drive. So, replace your old
>>drive!
>
>
> No - sorry. I wasn't clear enough. In addition to doing all that I
> said, I did remove the original c drive and connected the new one as c
> drive (jumper-ed of course) (Primary Master). That's when system
> would not boot.
>
> Thank You for response.
>
> God
June 9, 2005 8:07:00 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:48:45 -0500, "Ron Sommer"
<rsommer@nospam.ktis.net> wrote:

>Is the C: partition marked Active?


Oh yeh - in fact is the only partition so it automatically is
'active'. I even tried the new drive in another machine just to see
if it would just start, and it failed identically. I'm stumped.
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 8:30:11 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

godzilla wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:48:45 -0500, "Ron Sommer"
> <rsommer@nospam.ktis.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Is the C: partition marked Active?
>
>
>
> Oh yeh - in fact is the only partition so it automatically is
> 'active'. I even tried the new drive in another machine just to see
> if it would just start, and it failed identically. I'm stumped.

Assuming the BIOS in both machines is set to AUTO detect drives...

Possibly a bad clone image, corrupted/missing MBR, or problems with the
drive itself.

I'd try:

Boot XP CD, go into Recovery Console and execute CHKDSK /P and then FIXMBR.

Test the drive with manufaturer's diagnostics.

If the drive tests ok but still fails to boot try the clone again.

Steve
June 9, 2005 11:26:28 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:30:11 GMT, "Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote:


>Assuming the BIOS in both machines is set to AUTO detect drives...
>
>Possibly a bad clone image, corrupted/missing MBR, or problems with the
>drive itself.
>
>I'd try:
>
>Boot XP CD, go into Recovery Console and execute CHKDSK /P and then FIXMBR.
>
>Test the drive with manufaturer's diagnostics.
>
>If the drive tests ok but still fails to boot try the clone again.
>
>Steve


Yes - both machines have BIOS set to AUTO detect for the drives.

When I cloned the source c drive I chose the Ghost option to 'copy
MBR'.

I tried the clone three times with same result. As I said the clone
fails the same on two different machine, a Dell and one of mine.

I installed (on this Dell machine) a virgin XP on a scrap HD I have,
and it booted up fine which tells me the machine is fine in general.
Of course there was nothing else on the scrap HD except XP.

I do note that the source and target drives are NOT exact copies for
whatever reason. The source has 8,456,552,448B used whereas the
target drive (the clone) has 8,455,358,704B. Interesting, eh?
Especially since it is the clone target that will not boot. It may be
because of the missing bytes.

I have run windows SCANDISK on the bad clone drive - no errors
reported. I will try the CHKDSK /P and FIXMBR as you suggest.
Also the manuf's diags.

Thanks for your interest -

God
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 1:24:18 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"godzilla" <me@here.com> wrote in message
news:lc9ga19k3kdbdlmmtecgcro8c3m59qcdug@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:14:23 -0400, "Richard Urban"
> <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >A cloned drive is not bootable until you physically jumper and connect
the
> >clone "exactly" as the original drive is jumpered and connected. You can
not
> >clone drive C: (old drive) to drive D: (new drive) and expect it to boot,
> >until you connect the new drive as drive C:.
> >
> >Remember, a cloned drive is a replacement drive. So, replace your old
drive!
>
>
> No - sorry. I wasn't clear enough. In addition to doing all that I
> said, I did remove the original c drive and connected the new one as c
> drive (jumper-ed of course) (Primary Master). That's when system
> would not boot.
>
> Thank You for response.
>
> God

Please describe in detail what happens during the boot process:
How far it gets, and what messages (if any) you see.
June 10, 2005 1:24:19 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:24:18 +1000, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I.can@fly.com>
wrote:


>
>Please describe in detail what happens during the boot process:
>How far it gets, and what messages (if any) you see.
>


The BIOS clearly shows the new drive as 40G Primary Master (which is
the way it is connected).

Right at the outset I get:

Windows could not start because of a computer disk hardware
configuration problem.

Could not read from the selected boot disk. Check boot path and disk
hardware.

Check windows documentation about hardware disk
configuration..........
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 1:55:14 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Your problem is related to the BIOS and not to Windows.
I suspect that disk geometry is set incorrectly (cylinders/heads/sectors).
Try the various options in the CMOS setup program.


"godzilla" <me@here.com> wrote in message
news:n8aga110eqap1otf9tdp5p9m7ddchg10it@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:24:18 +1000, "Pegasus \(MVP\)" <I.can@fly.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Please describe in detail what happens during the boot process:
> >How far it gets, and what messages (if any) you see.
> >
>
>
> The BIOS clearly shows the new drive as 40G Primary Master (which is
> the way it is connected).
>
> Right at the outset I get:
>
> Windows could not start because of a computer disk hardware
> configuration problem.
>
> Could not read from the selected boot disk. Check boot path and disk
> hardware.
>
> Check windows documentation about hardware disk
> configuration..........
>
>
>
June 10, 2005 3:03:57 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:26:28 GMT, "godzilla" <me@here.com> wrote:


>I have run windows SCANDISK on the bad clone drive - no errors
>reported. I will try the CHKDSK /P and FIXMBR as you suggest.
>Also the manuf's diags.
>
>Thanks for your interest -
>
>God


I did the above. Chkdsk showed no errors. Fixmbr worked. WD's
diagnostic showed no errors.

Drive still will not boot.

Oh well...

God
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 5:11:07 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

godzilla wrote:

> On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:26:28 GMT, "godzilla" <me@here.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I have run windows SCANDISK on the bad clone drive - no errors
>>reported. I will try the CHKDSK /P and FIXMBR as you suggest.
>>Also the manuf's diags.
>>
>>Thanks for your interest -
>>
>>God
>
>
>
> I did the above. Chkdsk showed no errors. Fixmbr worked. WD's
> diagnostic showed no errors.
>
> Drive still will not boot.
>
> Oh well...
>
> God

All I can guess is bad imaging. Use something else to clone the drive or
try a clean install. BTW, I don't recall you stating what version of
Ghost you used...

Steve
June 10, 2005 1:45:40 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:11:07 GMT, "Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote:
>
>All I can guess is bad imaging. Use something else to clone the drive or
>try a clean install. BTW, I don't recall you stating what version of
>Ghost you used...
>
>Steve


It was a borrowed version - I never noticed which. I returned it when
I discovered that the disk copy 'utility' within the WD diagnostic
package copied fine, but produced the same result. This removed Ghost
from the picture of course.

I did notice that the source disk shows TWO partitions on the source
drive. Strangely only one partition shows in XP Windows Explorer/My
Computer. Maybe my problem is that I need to copy BOTH partitions.
The first partition is only 31MB (FAT32) and is lapelled Dell
Utilities. I don't remember that Ghost showed the 31MB partition.

So, just maybe this Dell XP installation when done originally
requires some kind of 'header' partition?

Anyway, I intend to re-try the WD copy, but I am going to copy BOTH
partitions this time. I'll use FDISK to create the two partitions so
that the WD diagnostic has targets to which to make the copies.

Let ya know......

God
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 1:45:41 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"godzilla" <me@here.com> wrote in message
news:D enia1hp22o1a176gfdunp665la0s73dpd@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:11:07 GMT, "Steve N." <me@here.now> wrote:
>>
>>All I can guess is bad imaging. Use something else to clone the drive or
>>try a clean install. BTW, I don't recall you stating what version of
>>Ghost you used...
>>
>>Steve
>
>
> It was a borrowed version - I never noticed which. I returned it when
> I discovered that the disk copy 'utility' within the WD diagnostic
> package copied fine, but produced the same result. This removed Ghost
> from the picture of course.
>
> I did notice that the source disk shows TWO partitions on the source
> drive. Strangely only one partition shows in XP Windows Explorer/My
> Computer. Maybe my problem is that I need to copy BOTH partitions.
> The first partition is only 31MB (FAT32) and is lapelled Dell
> Utilities. I don't remember that Ghost showed the 31MB partition.
>
> So, just maybe this Dell XP installation when done originally
> requires some kind of 'header' partition?
>
> Anyway, I intend to re-try the WD copy, but I am going to copy BOTH
> partitions this time. I'll use FDISK to create the two partitions so
> that the WD diagnostic has targets to which to make the copies.
>
> Let ya know......
>
> God

http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std...**&p_li=&p_topview=1

I am not sure that you need to create the partitions before you copy.
To make the copy bootable, you follow a different procedure.
--
Ron Sommer
June 10, 2005 3:28:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:05:42 -0500, "Ron Sommer"
<rsommer@nospam.ktis.net> wrote:

>
>http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std...**&p_li=&p_topview=1
>
>I am not sure that you need to create the partitions before you copy.
>To make the copy bootable, you follow a different procedure.

Mebbe so - I only saw a 'partition copy' which implied that the target
partitions had to pre-exist. I'll look again

Thanks
June 10, 2005 7:00:53 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:05:42 -0500, "Ron Sommer"
><rsommer@nospam.ktis.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std...**&p_li=&p_topview=1
>>
>>I am not sure that you need to create the partitions before you copy.
>>To make the copy bootable, you follow a different procedure.
>

I discovered that the 31MB 'Dell Utilities' partition on the source
hard drive is not Fat - it is said to be 'unknown' (by Fdisk). It
therefore was uncopyable by the WD copy program. Now I am out of
ideas.

Thanks

God
June 10, 2005 9:50:33 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:00:53 GMT, "godzilla" <me@here.com> wrote:


>I discovered that the 31MB 'Dell Utilities' partition on the source
>hard drive is not Fat - it is said to be 'unknown' (by Fdisk). It
>therefore was uncopyable by the WD copy program. Now I am out of
>ideas.
>
>Thanks
>
>God
>


I found and downloaded a demo copy of Acronis and used it to make a
clone of the source hard drive in question. Guess what? It worked!

When I checked though I found the same 31MB 'Dell Utility' partition
of 'unknown type' on the target drive. My conclusion? Dell is
playing games with me here. Maybe 'games' is not the right word.


Bye

God
June 10, 2005 10:55:24 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:50:33 GMT, "godzilla" <me@here.com> wrote:


>I found and downloaded a demo copy of Acronis and used it to make a
>clone of the source hard drive in question. Guess what? It worked!
>
>When I checked though I found the same 31MB 'Dell Utility' partition
>of 'unknown type' on the target drive. My conclusion? Dell is
>playing games with me here. Maybe 'games' is not the right word.
>
>
>Bye
>
>God


I found this at http://www.goodells.net/dellutility/

I don't know why it affects cloneing, but it does for sure.
Thanks for all your interests

God


Recent Dell computers come with a hidden Dell Utility partition at the
front of the disk. By pressing the right keys while the computer is
starting up, the bios startup procedure will pause and display a boot
menu from which the user can choose to boot this utility partition
instead of the normal Windows partition.

The Dell Utility partition exists in one of two states. It's
convenient to think of these two states like opening a factory-fresh
package in which the package is initially sealed, and then you break
the seal and open the package.

A new computer arrives from Dell in the 'sealed' state. When the
computer is booted from the hard disk for the very first time, the
user must acknowledge the Dell End-User License Agreement (EULA), is
prompted to record the Dell Service Tag for future reference, and then
the computer is allowed to boot into Windows. Once the seal is broken
(that is, the computer has booted at least once), this first-time
procedure is not repeated. After the computer has booted once in the
sealed state, it changes itself to the 'unsealed' state. The Dell
Utility partition becomes dormant and does not boot again unless the
user deliberately launches it from the bios boot menu. Otherwise, the
computer boots directly into Windows.


Partition Parameters
The Dell Utility partition is really an ordinary FAT16 partition, but
the partition-type indicator in the partition table has been changed
to 'DE'. For brevity, I'll henceforth refer to this as the DE
partition. This section describes in more detail the parameters of
this partition.


Sealed State
In its sealed state, the DE partition is marked as the 'active'
partition in the partition table. Thus, the first time the computer
boots from the hard disk it will boot the DE partition, not the
Windows partition. This section describes this one-time-only scenario.


Unsealed State
Once the DE partition has changed into its unsealed state, it is no
longer the active partition. The computer will boot directly into
Windows unless the user deliberately chooses to boot the DE partition
from the bios boot menu. In that case, the Dell Diagnostic program,
delldiag.exe, is automatically run from the DE partition. This section
describes this process in more detail.


---snip---
Anonymous
June 11, 2005 5:39:48 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"godzilla" <me@here.com> wrote in message
news:m7uia1t33c6htd3r1l61kadhrra630admq@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:05:42 -0500, "Ron Sommer"
> <rsommer@nospam.ktis.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std...**&p_li=&p_topview=1
>>
>>I am not sure that you need to create the partitions before you copy.
>>To make the copy bootable, you follow a different procedure.
>
> Mebbe so - I only saw a 'partition copy' which implied that the target
> partitions had to pre-exist. I'll look again
>
> Thanks

What version of Ghost are you using ?, the last time I used it [Ver
2003] it had an option to copy local disk to disk - this is what you
want to do.
I now use BootIT NG now , check it out http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/
You can try it before you buy , much better value than Symantec's
Ghost IMO

rgds
Li'l Roberto
Anonymous
June 12, 2005 6:15:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

godzilla wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:50:33 GMT, "godzilla" <me@here.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I found and downloaded a demo copy of Acronis and used it to make a
>>clone of the source hard drive in question. Guess what? It worked!
>>
>>When I checked though I found the same 31MB 'Dell Utility' partition
>>of 'unknown type' on the target drive. My conclusion? Dell is
>>playing games with me here. Maybe 'games' is not the right word.
>>
>>
>>Bye
>>
>>God
>
>
>
> I found this at http://www.goodells.net/dellutility/
>
> I don't know why it affects cloneing, but it does for sure.
> Thanks for all your interests
>
> God
>

I'm glad you got it working and thanks for following up here. In my
experience Dell has always had a util partition on their factory
installations. It isn't really necessary, though, the same utilities are
on the Dell utility CD.

Steve
!