Simple sdcard question

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 6 Aug 2004 05:34:15 -0700, togbabe@yahoo.co.uk (mark tognella) was
understood to have stated the following:

>Has anybody out there used a 1 gig sdcard with their faithful old palm
>m130 that just won't break? I am about to buy a 1 gig sdcard and am a
>little worried that the hardware won't handle it. Anybody done this?
>Is there a limitation?

Not that I have anything positive to add, but who makes the card? I
avoid SanDisc like the plague.


--

The last song I started on my PC was: Feel-Matchbox Twenty-More Than You Think You Are
This is track 112 of 1023 in the current playlist.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <20040809105450.04469.00000909@mb-m27.aol.com>,
romad@aol.com.zz (ROMAD) wrote:

> Toshiba-related; I've never SEEN a Panasonic card; now I'm getting leery of
> SanDisk. Any good sources for Panasonic cards in Northern California?

My SD card is from SimpleTech, and it is made by Panasonic.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

romad@aol.com.zz (ROMAD) wrote in message news:<20040809105450.04469.00000909@mb-m27.aol.com>...
> << Not that I have anything positive to add, but who makes the card? I
> avoid SanDisc like the plague. >>
>
> Unfortunately, SanDisk is ALL that any of the stores carry around here. I do se
> a few PNY branded ones but the package doesn't say who actually makes the card.
> As I understand it, there are only three companies that actually make the
> cards, SanDisk, Toshiba, and Panasonic. I refuse to putchase ANYTHING
> Toshiba-related; I've never SEEN a Panasonic card; now I'm getting leery of
> SanDisk. Any good sources for Panasonic cards in Northern California?

My understanding of the manufacturer situation is the same. I *refuse*
to purchase SanDisc; I have 9 Panasonic cards ranging in size from
512mb to 16mb; four of those are high speed. Other than receiving a
512mb card DOA, which I exchanged, I haven't had any problems.

As for locating them, if nothing else, consider the camera section at
your local Wally-World; there should be a 256mb Panasonic SD card
there for about $80, if their prices are the same as they are in this
area. Get one with a gold label, as those are high-speed; the silver
labeled ones are not.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 10 Aug 2004 04:33:44 GMT, romad@aol.com.zz (ROMAD) was understood
to have stated the following:

>Thanks, Jim & David. I'll check out Wal-Mart though I seem to remember only
>SanDisk stuff. Maybe all the Panasonics were already gobbled up!

One of the larger Wal-Marts in this area carries only SanDisk stuff;
fortunately the one closest to me carries only Panasonic. Why, I don't
know, but that's the way it seems to work. I also recall that I went
to Ritz (or Wolf?) Camera to pick up my 512mb Panasonic SD cards, as
those weren't carried by WallyWorld.

Personally, I would rather go without a SD card than to use a SanDisc
version.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

romad@aol.com.zz (ROMAD) wrote in
news:20040810003344.04822.00001363@mb-m05.aol.com:

> Thanks, Jim & David. I'll check out Wal-Mart though I seem
> to remember only SanDisk stuff. Maybe all the Panasonics
> were already gobbled up! Dennis B. Swaney
> remove .zz to reply

Some WalMarts are poorly restocked, and some are just poorly
stocked. Most of the ones I see have Panasonic cards, but only
in smaller sizes. They don't seem to understand that nobody
wants 32MB cards any more. I HATE going to WalMart, but that's
the only place open at 3AM when I often get the chance to shop.
I will not go there during the day.

--
Regards,

Stan

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In article <3sbjh0llaljl5cbg8qrod4gbgsfe621beh@4ax.com>,
LauraBushMurderedHerBoyfriendIsATroll.20.dwpj65@spamgourmet.com wrote:

> The closest Wally-World has a rack of Panasonic slow 64s, Panasonic
> slow 128s, and Panasonic fast 256s (I bought the last 2 slow 256ers at
> which time they restocked with fast ones, pissing me off of course).

Someone please post a link to any tests that show the "fast" cards
actually work faster than normal cards. There's a maximum speed at which
the devices can transfer data. If this maximum is below that of the
regular cards, then fast cards wouldn't provide any advantage.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I just got a Zire 71 and anew SD card, 128Mb SanDisk (the only kind I
could get). When I placed the card in the Zire, it did a hard reset.
Now everything seems OK -- Zire sees the card and BackupBuddyVFS works
with it. The card didn't have the normal Palm directories so I formated
it with the Zire and all works but my card reader can't read it this
reader works with the CF from my TRGpro. Also my desktop is a Linux
system with JPilot to do the Palm Desktop chores. JPilot works fine
with the Zire. Was this hard reset a fluke - hasn't happened again?
Should I have tried to format the SD on my Linux? Any help would be
appreciated. I'll post my findings here if they come from someplace else.

Guy Bannis wrote:
> In article <3sbjh0llaljl5cbg8qrod4gbgsfe621beh@4ax.com>,
> LauraBushMurderedHerBoyfriendIsATroll.20.dwpj65@spamgourmet.com wrote:
>
>
>>The closest Wally-World has a rack of Panasonic slow 64s, Panasonic
>>slow 128s, and Panasonic fast 256s (I bought the last 2 slow 256ers at
>>which time they restocked with fast ones, pissing me off of course).
>
>
> Someone please post a link to any tests that show the "fast" cards
> actually work faster than normal cards. There's a maximum speed at which
> the devices can transfer data. If this maximum is below that of the
> regular cards, then fast cards wouldn't provide any advantage.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote in message news:<guy-1108041154480001@192.168.1.103>...
> In article <3sbjh0llaljl5cbg8qrod4gbgsfe621beh@4ax.com>,
> LauraBushMurderedHerBoyfriendIsATroll.20.dwpj65@spamgourmet.com wrote:
>
> > The closest Wally-World has a rack of Panasonic slow 64s, Panasonic
> > slow 128s, and Panasonic fast 256s (I bought the last 2 slow 256ers at
> > which time they restocked with fast ones, pissing me off of course).
>
> Someone please post a link to any tests that show the "fast" cards
> actually work faster than normal cards. There's a maximum speed at which
> the devices can transfer data. If this maximum is below that of the
> regular cards, then fast cards wouldn't provide any advantage.

I posted some time back into this group (I *believe*; may have been a
photography group) timings I got off of my Palm T|3 using a mixture of
high-speed and low-speed cards. The timings I received from VFSMark
confirmed what I noticed when viewing pictures I had taken with my
camera. That being that hi-speed vs. low-speed (when it comes to
Panasonic, anyway) makes a *big* difference. For MP3 playback, or
viewing ebooks, I don't think the speed difference is that great. That
being said, though, if you have some high-speed cards, I've got some
low-speed cards I'd be most interested in trading with you. ;-)

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On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Guy Bannis wrote:

>> try
>> http://www.digit-life.com/articles [...] card-test-
>> p2.html
>>
>> Skip through to the analysis of sd cards, but the rest of the analysis
>> is interesting as well.
>
> Unfortunately, that article does not compare data transfer between a
> handheld and an SD card. These fast cards are being hyped right and left
> but are they faster where it counts: in actual use in a handheld device,
> digital camera, cellphone?

I generally use a USB card "reader" to move files on and off my SD cards.
I find huge differences in the I/O speed on different systems (Linux and
WinXP) using the same card and different (Lexar) readers. On the fastest
system (Knoppix linux) a "slow" Lexar 256M card is much faster than a
Lexar 32x card using WinXP on the same computer with the same reader. I
suspect the knoppix system is doing write caching, as there seems to be a
lot of write activity and a short delay when I unmount the card. With
Mandrake Linux 10.0 the card is mounted/unmounted "automagically",
but reading is much slower than with Knoppix.

The "slow" Lexar cards work fine for playing music on a T|E. We
got the 32X card for a Japanese-English dictionary on a Zaurus, but
never got the dictionary program working, so can't say if there is a
speed advantage.

--
George N. White III <aa056@chebucto.ns.ca>
Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:59:22 GMT, guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) was
understood to have stated the following:

>How do you make that conclusion when in a reply to your article you wrote:
>
>"I don't really know which of the cards is high-speed or not, as they
>are not labeled as such."

This is because *some* of the packages for the Panasonic cards I've
purchased were labeled as high-speed, and others were not. Also, I
have four Panasonic cards where the "SD" lettering has a gold tint to
it, and those cards perform better than those without the gold tint. I
can only assume that the gold-tinted cards came from the packages
labeled as high-speed. Given that it's an assumption, I don't want to
make an absolute statement that may not be.

When I started purchasing cards, speed wasn't an issue. And I really
did not notice a difference in speed between the tinted and untinted
cards until I loaded a file set onto a tinted card that I was used to
dealing with on an untinted card. As I was used to the performance of
the untinted cards, I was blown away by how much snappier the response
was on the tinted cards. At that time, I stopped purchasing untinted
cards.

>http://groups.google.com/groups?q=vfsmark+panasonic+gold&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&scoring=d&selm=95a7672d.0405260951.fd85f15%40posting.google.com&rnum=1
>
>From your numbers, it seems to me that the main differences are among
>brands. Among those you tested, Panasonic cards are consistently much
>faster than Lexar and SanDisk cards.

Ah, I found the full table; the previously supplied link is a summary
where someone trimmed out all the details. Note that from my inventory
of cards, in regards to Panasonic, *all* cards less than 256mb in size
are "untinted", or "slow" (I assume) cards. All cards greater than 256
are gold tinted, or fast (I assume) cards. I have four 256mb cards,
two of which are gold, and two of which are not. Looks like I lost one
of the benchmarks for the 256mb gold cards. If it matters, my
initials, and the number following it, are volume labels. Cards were
labeled in the order of acquisition, however, all cards less than
256mb in size were purchased via eBay, on close-out at Wally-World,
from a friend, or supplied with a camera. The reason I mention the
sequential nature of the purchases is that it appears that among given
cards (ie, the two 256mb silvers, or the two 512mb golds) that there
is a speed benefit obtained by purchasing cards later, as if their
speed continues to improve in the production process.

VFSMark ResultsWPj04(Panasonic 16SD)
File Create: 264%
File Delete: 148%
File Write: 61%
File Read: 618%
File Seek: 786%
DB Export: 168%
DB Import: 652%
Record Access: 613%
Resource Access: 573%
VFSMark: 431
-------------
VFSMark ResultsWPj02(SanDisc 32MMC)
File Create: 187%
File Delete: 211%
File Write: 83%
File Read: 106%
File Seek: 347%
DB Export: 49%
DB Import: 323%
Record Access: 230%
Resource Access: 223%
VFSMark: 195
-------------
VFSMark ResultsWPj06(Panasonic 32SD)
File Create: 258%
File Delete: 145%
File Write: 57%
File Read: 703%
File Seek: 1180%
DB Export: 169%
DB Import: 953%
Record Access: 738%
Resource Access: 711%
VFSMark: 546
-------------
VFSMark ResultsWPj07(Lexar 32SD)
File Create: 207%
File Delete: 116%
File Write: 36%
File Read: 368%
File Seek: 561%
DB Export: 126%
DB Import: 465%
Record Access: 464%
Resource Access: 417%
VFSMark: 306
-------------
DWPj10(Panasonic 64mb)
VFSMark Results
File Create: 277%
File Delete: 152%
File Write: 65%
File Read: 644%
File Seek: 786%
DB Export: 179%
DB Import: 620%
Record Access: 603%
Resource Access: 556%
VFSMark: 431
-------------
VFSMark ResultsWPj01(Panasonic 256SD(Silver))
File Create: 202%
File Delete: 125%
File Write: 47%
File Read: 692%
File Seek: 983%
DB Export: 169%
DB Import: 770%
Record Access: 709%
Resource Access: 662%
VFSMark: 484
-------------
VFSMark ResultsWPj03(Panasonic 256SD(Silver))
File Create: 291%
File Delete: 144%
File Write: 68%
File Read: 692%
File Seek: 983%
DB Export: 243%
DB Import: 829%
Record Access: 724%
Resource Access: 662%
VFSMark: 515
-------------
VFSMark ResultsWPj05(Panasonic 256SD(gold))
File Create: 480%
File Delete: 300%
File Write: 134%
File Read: 692%
File Seek: 983%
DB Export: 238%
DB Import: 829%
Record Access: 709%
Resource Access: 662%
VFSMark: 558
-------------
VFSMark ResultsWPj08(Pansonic 512mb (Gold))
File Create: 560%
File Delete: 336%
File Write: 164%
File Read: 736%
File Seek: 1072%
DB Export: 294%
DB Import: 838%
Record Access: 754%
Resource Access: 711%
VFSMark: 607
-------------
VFSMark Results: DWPj09(Panasonic 512mb (Gold))
File Create: 566%
File Delete: 343%
File Write: 165%
File Read: 725%
File Seek: 1072%
DB Export: 290%
DB Import: 838%
Record Access: 786%
Resource Access: 783%
VFSMark: 618

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:40:15 -0400, David W. Poole, Jr. wrote:

> VFSMark ResultsWPj08(Pansonic 512mb (Gold))
> File Create: 560%
> File Delete: 336%
> File Write: 164%
> File Read: 736%
> File Seek: 1072%
> DB Export: 294%
> DB Import: 838%
> Record Access: 754%
> Resource Access: 711%
> VFSMark: 607

On my Palm T|T, here are the results I get from my SimpleTech
(re-branded Panasonic) 512MB):
File Create: 293%
File Delete: 186%
File Write: 112%
File Read: 127%
File Seek: 251%
DB Export: 139%
DB Import: 270%
Record Access: 238%
Resource Access: 228%
VFSMark: 204

The card is half full (my old 256 was almost full), but is about a
week old. I don't know if either of those factors affect performance

-alan


--
Alan Hoyle - alanh@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Well, I recently got a Toshiba 256 rebrand (it's NOT branded in fact,
but the store owner allowed me to check it on the card info utility) and
the other option was a Sandisc (and while Toshiba is a bit slow on
writes, I'm afraid that Sandisk would be worse, if what I hear on the
net is to be trusted...)

These are my VFSMARK resuts:

VFSMark Results

File Create: 41%
File Delete: 21%
File Write: 5%
File Read: 437%
File Seek: 421%
DB Export: 23%
DB Import: 545%
Record Access: 548%
Resource Access: 512%

VFSMark: 283


It has abysal file create, delete and write, but for the rest it works
rather nice. I use it mostly for MP3 on my Zire71 (I take the photos in
the Ram and then transfer them to my 64MB MMC card that I got with the
Zire).

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Back to the original question:

Do new "fast" SD cards actually deliver faster speeds in handhelds (and
digital cameras, and smartphones) than "regular" SD cards?

I don't doubt anyone's VFS Marks but we really need to compare apples with
apples: e.g., a 512MB "fast" card versus a 512MB "regular" card from the
same manufacturer.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:03:30 GMT, guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) was
understood to have stated the following:

>Back to the original question:
>
>Do new "fast" SD cards actually deliver faster speeds in handhelds (and
>digital cameras, and smartphones) than "regular" SD cards?
>
>I don't doubt anyone's VFS Marks but we really need to compare apples with
>apples: e.g., a 512MB "fast" card versus a 512MB "regular" card from the
>same manufacturer.

Well, in spite of the fact that I can not say for certain that the
"gold" cards listed in my previous benchmarks are "hi-speed", the
numbers from VFSMark indicate something to that effect. Moreover, my
experiences with the gold vs. the silver cards (in the 256mb range) is
such that I use the gold cards in my camera (there is a notable
difference in burst mode), and the silvers are used for MP3 playback
or anything where interactivity is minimal. There is undoubtedly a
notable difference with respect to the gold vs. silver cards when it
comes to issues such as image capturing and/or browsing.

I also use a JumpDrive Trio with my SD cards on various Windoze based
machines. My primary purpose is to transport information between work
and home, and occasionally other destinations. Most machines that I
stick the JumpDrive Trio in are XP based. One card in particular is
used to tote Word documents, as well as a Borland C++ command line
compiler, and some source code. I have come to the conclusion that
compiling off of the silver cards isn't a prudent use of my time. :-)

However, if you don't think there is that much of a difference, I will
be happy to sell you my silver cards for 75% of the list of
replacement cards. They are very low mileage cards. On the other hand,
the gold ones have been used quite heavily. :-D

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On 15 Aug 2004 15:51:50 GMT, ROMAD <romad@aol.com.zz> wrote:

> Just checked my local Wal-Mart and they only carry Kodak and Lexar.
> Anyone know
> who makes the cards for those two?
> Dennis B. Swaney
> remove .zz to reply

According to this site
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/ [...] 025195.htm
Lexar Media makes Kodak's sd cards.

--
Jari Lehtinen
http://www.jarilehtinen.net

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

romad@aol.com.zz (ROMAD) wrote in
news:20040816120705.15071.00001773@mb-m02.aol.com:

> And, I just found out that Toshiba makes the Lexar cards. I was at Kit's
> Camera yesterday. and they happened to have a Lexar SD card out of the
> plastic case. Stamped right on it was Toshiba!

Lexar buys cards from most makers, I think. All my Lexar cards are
Panasonic, but I've also heard of them being SanDisk. The only SD card
manufacturers I'm aware of are Panasonic, Toshiba, and SanDisk. All other
brands, Palm included, are rebrands of one of these. I have some Toshiba
cards, and they're very, very slow, although they are reliable.

--
Regards,

Stan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"ROMAD" <romad@aol.com.zz> wrote in message
news:20040809105450.04469.00000909@mb-m27.aol.com...
> << Not that I have anything positive to add, but who makes the card? I
> avoid SanDisc like the plague. >>
>
> Unfortunately, SanDisk is ALL that any of the stores carry around here. I
do se
> a few PNY branded ones but the package doesn't say who actually makes the
card.
> As I understand it, there are only three companies that actually make the
> cards, SanDisk, Toshiba, and Panasonic. I refuse to putchase ANYTHING
> Toshiba-related; I've never SEEN a Panasonic card; now I'm getting leery
of
> SanDisk. Any good sources for Panasonic cards in Northern California?
>
> Dennis B. Swaney
> remove .zz to reply

I've never had a problem with SanDisk. My history with MatsuSHITa, parent of
Panasonic, has me avoid THEM like the plague. Who else do we have, besides
ordering online from Palm?

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Peter Franks" <yougotta@kidding.net> wrote in
newseeUc.24111$865.4512@hydra.nntpserver.com:

> I've never had a problem with SanDisk. My history with MatsuSHITa,
> parent of Panasonic, has me avoid THEM like the plague. Who else do we
> have, besides ordering online from Palm?
>
You may get Panasonic cards from Palm. Palm doesn't manufacture cards, they
buy them from manufacturers and rebrand them, like everyone else.

--
Regards,

Stan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

guy@ether.net (Guy Bannis) wrote in
news:guy-1708041106010001@192.168.1.103:

> Yes, but PalmOne charges a whole lot more for them.
>
Well of course! They do have the real Palm brand on them, after all. ;-)

--
Regards,

Stan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <KivUc.42207$865.1560@hydra.nntpserver.com>, "Peter Franks"
<yougotta@kidding.net> wrote:

> "Guy Bannis" <guy@ether.net> wrote in message
> news:guy-1108041154480001@192.168.1.103...
> > In article <3sbjh0llaljl5cbg8qrod4gbgsfe621beh@4ax.com>,
> > LauraBushMurderedHerBoyfriendIsATroll.20.dwpj65@spamgourmet.com wrote:
> >
> > > The closest Wally-World has a rack of Panasonic slow 64s, Panasonic
> > > slow 128s, and Panasonic fast 256s (I bought the last 2 slow 256ers at
> > > which time they restocked with fast ones, pissing me off of course).
> >
> > Someone please post a link to any tests that show the "fast" cards
> > actually work faster than normal cards. There's a maximum speed at which
> > the devices can transfer data. If this maximum is below that of the
> > regular cards, then fast cards wouldn't provide any advantage.
>
> For that matter, will the "fast" cards work at all on other devices? In my
> case, the Tungsten E.

Yes, but whether they will work faster in your device is another matter.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Antoni Ten Monrós" <kuroshima@gempukku.com> wrote in message
news:2o4s5jF6vmqeU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Well, I recently got a Toshiba 256 rebrand (it's NOT branded in fact,
> but the store owner allowed me to check it on the card info utility) and
> the other option was a Sandisc (and while Toshiba is a bit slow on
> writes, I'm afraid that Sandisk would be worse, if what I hear on the
> net is to be trusted...)

I did a bit of research on sites selling the SD cards, and some of them have
a place for user input. Sandisc fared as well as any of them.

A local tech guy agrees with other posters here, that they are mostly from
the same place, then rebranded.


>
> These are my VFSMARK resuts:
>
> VFSMark Results
>
> File Create: 41%
> File Delete: 21%
> File Write: 5%
> File Read: 437%
> File Seek: 421%
> DB Export: 23%
> DB Import: 545%
> Record Access: 548%
> Resource Access: 512%
>
> VFSMark: 283
>
>
> It has abysal file create, delete and write, but for the rest it works
> rather nice. I use it mostly for MP3 on my Zire71 (I take the photos in
> the Ram and then transfer them to my 64MB MMC card that I got with the
> Zire).