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Audio quackwatch: Hodie's 'SA-DVD'

Last response: in Home Audio
January 28, 2005 10:15:51 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

For a mere $700-900, you now can buy a *single* DVD-R
encoded in 'Super Audio DVD', which sounds better than
either MLP or 'DST' [sic]!



If you're a nut and knock on enough doors, eventually someone will open one,
look at you and say, Messiah, we have waited for your arrival.
January 29, 2005 7:02:51 PM

Archived from groups: (More info?)

Steven Sullivan <> wrote:
> For a mere $700-900, you now can buy a *single* DVD-R

The price is ridiculous. $30 would be more reasonable, maybe
$50 since it is an artesanal product.

> encoded in 'Super Audio DVD', which sounds better than
> either MLP or 'DST' [sic]!

Ok, I checked the page and what they are selling is a DVD-Audio
using the full capabilities of the format (stereo 192khz/24 bit
or 5.1 surround 96khz/24 bit) and not using MLP.

If you replace "sounds better" by "measures better" their claim
is plausible. There are several papers on the net arguing why
PCM is better than DSD (the SACD format), and I believe them,
although I won't argue that the difference is audible. But that
applies to any DVD-Audio.

MLP is lossless compression so it doesn't make a difference. But,
IIRC, MLP uses an optional(?) trick: when the high-order bits are
zero, it shifts the bits, so as to gain some extra bits. This allows
the surround channels to be encoded e.g. in 16 bits but to have
the dynamic range of 24 bits *. The signal-to-noise ratio is, of
course, still 16 bits (96 dB).

* I read about MLP some months ago, so I am not 100% sure of the
details, but this is my recollection. MLP is described on this
Meridian paper:

The maximum bit rate from a DVD is 9.6 Mb/s.
6 channels * 96 kHz * 24 bits = 13.824 Mb/s which is more than that.
I remembered that MLP is necessary to fit the 6 channels on the
available bandwidth. Of course your average $50 (or less) DVD-ROM
is perfectly able to read at 2x or faster, so that limit is probably
not a problem these days. But these DVDs are not really standard.


: What is this ?

: SIMPLE. It's a fantastic opportunity to get a "tailor-made" DVD-AUDIO
: HI-REZ stereo 192khz/24 bit or 5.1 surround 96khz/24 bit* DVD in
: the native LPCM format (no MLP lossless compression) and it offers
: us the type of financial support which we need to keep creating
: our releases and programs. A SA-DVD is made using a top brand
: DVD-R in a single customized disc. You'll get your name on the DVD
: menu and the Audio quality will be exactly the same we have on our
: master tape which is better than either MLP encoded track or the
: DST (SACD lossless compression).

: Example : 1 hour 5.1 music program = +- 3.0 Gbyte with the MLP or
: DST format and 6.5 Gbyte in the native format LPCM !!!

This is taking advantage of people who don't understand what lossless
compression means.

: We think that Audiophiles spent thousand and thousand of dollars
: on gears and speakers but doesn't get the appropriate content needed
: to make the most of their equipment. If you agree with us go ahead
: and get a SA-DVD - the right artistic and technological content
: you deserve.

: A SA-DVD effectively means you can order any HODIE release based
: on the configuration you want and get our master tapes on DVD !

: Prices:

: Releases 70 minutes*** (playing time) : 700 USD (+ for FREE !!!
: The Complete Elite Collector set - 12 DVD included) *** (stereo
: 192khz/24 bit or 5.1 surround 96khz/24 bit)

: Releases 140 minutes*** : 900 USD (+ for FREE !!! The Complete
: Elite Collector set - 12 DVD included)*** (stereo 192khz/24 bit
: or 5.1 surround 96khz/24 bit)


: Why so expensive ? Because it take about 6 hours to make and check
: your "tailor-made" disc.

-- is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
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