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Thnx to the group, Pro Amp vs. Studio vs. Hi-Fi and recomm..

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Anonymous
February 1, 2005 3:36:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

1) First of all, my thnx to the group for the suggestion of the
Sennheiser PX100 headphones for use with my portable. They should
really hold me while I put the money together for my BitHead/Sennheiser
combo from headphone.com

2) While listening to using the above headphones, I noticed that they
sound in a way similar to my home listening system at home... which by
the way, is not a traditional hi-fi, but a system using KRK studio
monitors - (2 X RP8) + RP10S + Behringer mixer - which I used to use to
make music - until 2 kids kept me from that. But my point is that we
are talking studio equipment. The thing is that in my own humble
opinion, they sound much, but much better that anthing in the hi-fi
area -at that price point THAT I WAS ABLE TO TEST (so your MMV - I am
certainly not trolling). I've seen all those discussion on pro-amps vs.
hi-fi amps and I've seen the main argument against them is that they
are built for power per $ and reliability and not sound quality.
However, the argument seems to refer to amps for live use. So I have to
ask, what about studio amps? They are not designed for live use, but to
help create the recordings we listen at home in our high-end systems -
Is there any difference? Would you prefer them?

3) Last, given the success (my opinion, of course) I've had with the
studio monitors approach, I am going to expand to surround - I am
planning to add 3 KRK RP5s so they act as a center and rear, and a
bigger mixer to support them all (they are active monitors, BTW).

Question to the experts in the group - should I go for it? Would I be
better served by an audiophile hi-fi? If so , what would be the
recommendation at that price point, which is:

(all street prices)

2 KRK RP8 = $500 (Already paid, of course)
1 KRK RP10S = $300 (Same as above)
3 KRK RP5 = $450
1 bigger mixer =~$250 (Haven't decided which one)
Total =$1500

Thnx

V
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 3:05:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

"vmartell" <vmartell22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ctmitr0250d@news3.newsguy.com...
>>
> 2) While listening to using the above headphones, I noticed that they
> sound in a way similar to my home listening system at home... which by
> the way, is not a traditional hi-fi, but a system using KRK studio
> monitors - (2 X RP8) + RP10S + Behringer mixer - which I used to use to
> make music - until 2 kids kept me from that. But my point is that we
> are talking studio equipment. The thing is that in my own humble
> opinion, they sound much, but much better that anthing in the hi-fi
> area -at that price point THAT I WAS ABLE TO TEST (so your MMV - I am
> certainly not trolling).

I'd say we get about the same kind of mileage. :-)

I've seen all those discussion on pro-amps vs.
> hi-fi amps and I've seen the main argument against them is that they
> are built for power per $ and reliability and not sound quality.

I always thought that they also had to sound good too, otherwise they
wouldn't sell in that market. I understood you meant studio amps, and that
they still have to be rugged because musicans who record in studios not
their own often have specific (if not always logical) amp and speaker
preferences, as well as mixing boards and particluar rooms they like to
record in. This means that the studio personell have to move things and
change things to suit their clients.

> However, the argument seems to refer to amps for live use. So I have to
> ask, what about studio amps? They are not designed for live use, but to
> help create the recordings we listen at home in our high-end systems -
> Is there any difference? Would you prefer them?
>
There is no difference I am aware of and none that I can find on paper in
the form of objective specifications. Amps are amps when talking about
solid state at least. I prefer bang for the buck. If I can get a $400.00
amp that I can't tell from a $4000.00 amp, MY money goes to the $400.00 amp
company.

> 3) Last, given the success (my opinion, of course) I've had with the
> studio monitors approach, I am going to expand to surround - I am
> planning to add 3 KRK RP5s so they act as a center and rear, and a
> bigger mixer to support them all (they are active monitors, BTW).
>
By active, I assume youmean self powered?

> Question to the experts in the group - should I go for it? Would I be
> better served by an audiophile hi-fi? If so , what would be the
> recommendation at that price point, which is:
>
> (all street prices)
>
> 2 KRK RP8 = $500 (Already paid, of course)
> 1 KRK RP10S = $300 (Same as above)
> 3 KRK RP5 = $450
> 1 bigger mixer =~$250 (Haven't decided which one)
> Total =$1500
>
If you already have speakers you like and have been able to compare to
others speakers I say go for it. Self powered speakers will save you the
expense of buying more amplification. You already have a start on a system,
so why not. One word of advice, do not use a horizontally designed MTM type
speaker for the center channel.

Just went to their web site and I'm even more sure that you are making a
wise choice, with the possible exception of the subwoofer. The RP10S does
not go low enough for my taste, but if I understand your words above, you
already have it, so as long as you set it in the corner to max out your room
gain, it will have to do. When you decide to upgrade, I would go with one
of the Adire Audio woofers and perhaps build your own box for it and make it
as tough as you need. If it won't be set up and torn down a lot then try a
sonotube DIY sub. You can get 5 cu. ft. from a tube that is 24" around by
19'' high or 18" x 34'' and the tube is very inexpensive but won't flex like
an MDF box. An appropriate sized tube would run about $20.00 at White Cap
industries. Add an amp of your choice, (possibly even the RP10S unit) and
the 125.00 for the Adire Shiva woofer and you have bass down to 18 Hz in
room.

The drivers in the RP series seem to be sourced from Vifa which is a fine if
somewhat lower end than their other company Scan-Speak. I also like the use
of slot port in their speakers, but advertising hyperbole aside, they are
not that much different from round ports, especially insofar as they must be
the right size.

Good luck and good listening.
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 3:08:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

It is important to keep speakers matching and so if you like what you
have then flushing out the set with like speakers would be the least
expensive alternative. I am sure that you could do both better and
worse in terms of sound quality, but as far as value goes adding a few
speakers to a happy system is easy enough. I would however recommend
ditching the mixer and getting a standard home theater processor and
amp or a receiver at least for powering them. That should get you all
the features that you might want in such a system plus excellent
performance. I use a stereo rig for both music and movies and have no
desire to expand the system. If you find that the number of channels
is enough for your room and you are trying to get better sound
quality, don't confuse quality with quantity. You could get a better
pair of speakers, DVD player and amp and then have better sound for
somewhere around the price of the added channels. That would give you
an actual improvement rather than an adjustment if you listen
carefully and that is what you are after.
-Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"vmartell" <vmartell22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ctmitr0250d@news3.newsguy.com...
> 1) First of all, my thnx to the group for the suggestion of the
> Sennheiser PX100 headphones for use with my portable. They should
> really hold me while I put the money together for my
> BitHead/Sennheiser
> combo from headphone.com
>
> 2) While listening to using the above headphones, I noticed that
> they
> sound in a way similar to my home listening system at home... which
> by
> the way, is not a traditional hi-fi, but a system using KRK studio
> monitors - (2 X RP8) + RP10S + Behringer mixer - which I used to use
> to
> make music - until 2 kids kept me from that. But my point is that we
> are talking studio equipment. The thing is that in my own humble
> opinion, they sound much, but much better that anthing in the hi-fi
> area -at that price point THAT I WAS ABLE TO TEST (so your MMV - I
> am
> certainly not trolling). I've seen all those discussion on pro-amps
> vs.
> hi-fi amps and I've seen the main argument against them is that they
> are built for power per $ and reliability and not sound quality.
> However, the argument seems to refer to amps for live use. So I have
> to
> ask, what about studio amps? They are not designed for live use, but
> to
> help create the recordings we listen at home in our high-end
> systems -
> Is there any difference? Would you prefer them?
>
> 3) Last, given the success (my opinion, of course) I've had with the
> studio monitors approach, I am going to expand to surround - I am
> planning to add 3 KRK RP5s so they act as a center and rear, and a
> bigger mixer to support them all (they are active monitors, BTW).
>
> Question to the experts in the group - should I go for it? Would I
> be
> better served by an audiophile hi-fi? If so , what would be the
> recommendation at that price point, which is:
>
> (all street prices)
>
> 2 KRK RP8 = $500 (Already paid, of course)
> 1 KRK RP10S = $300 (Same as above)
> 3 KRK RP5 = $450
> 1 bigger mixer =~$250 (Haven't decided which one)
> Total =$1500
>
> Thnx
>
> V
Related resources
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 7:25:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Thnx for the help

> speakers to a happy system is easy enough. I would however recommend
> ditching the mixer and getting a standard home theater processor and
> amp or a receiver at least for powering them. That should get you all

> the features that you might want in such a system plus excellent
> performance.

I've been thinking about it and yes, a mixer would be a somewhat clumsy
solution for multi-channel using that specific setup. However, since
the KRK monitors are active (that is self-powered with included
amplifier) I don't need an amplifier. I guess what it would be needed
is a kind of "passive pre-amp", that is, something that would give me
the switching and routing of sources without the amp circuitry- kind of
well, like a mixer :-).

Does such a thing exist? Is there a recommendation for that?

> is enough for your room and you are trying to get better sound
> quality, don't confuse quality with quantity. You could get a better
> pair of speakers, DVD player and amp and then have better sound for
> somewhere around the price of the added channels.

So far I've been using the rig for stereo listening. The only reason I
wanted to expand to multi-channel is to be able to experience the
multi-channel audio on SACDs and DVD-As. More than anything I want it
to audition the 3-track Living Stereo SACDs

Thnx for the help. Will certainly consider your suggested approach...

V
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 7:28:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Michael McKelvy wrote:

> the form of objective specifications. Amps are amps when talking
about
> solid state at least. I prefer bang for the buck. If I can get a
$400.00
> amp that I can't tell from a $4000.00 amp, MY money goes to the
$400.00 amp
> company.

My opinion too. Certainly, that is one of the signs of being
knowledgeable; it allows you to get the best bang for the buck. Anyone
with a lot of money can buy Crystal champagne and will certainly get
something that is very good; however, armed with a little knowledge,
you can get something that is 80% as good at maybe 20% of the price. In
most cases, that is enough. Well, at least in my case...

> By active, I assume youmean self powered?

Yes, Sir.

> speaker for the center channel.

No horizontal speaker... I would use simply another KRK ( a smaller
one, the RP5) for center.

> wise choice, with the possible exception of the subwoofer. The RP10S
does
> not go low enough for my taste, but if I understand your words above,
you
> already have it, so as long as you set it in the corner to max out
your room
> gain, it will have to do.

Thanks for the tip. I will certainly experiment with different
locations. Also thnx for taking the time to do the research.

> When you decide to upgrade, I would go with one
> of the Adire Audio woofers and perhaps build your own box for it and
make it
..
..
[DIY snipped]

Before experiencing the epiphany of using my studio equipment for
regular listening I was considering the DIY approach. However, being
kind of incompetent with my hands I decided to look for other ways...
Thnx for the suggestions and help.

V
Anonymous
February 5, 2005 3:09:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

For a home theater, you probably don't want a "passive" unit, but a
preamp/processor which has the popular digital decoders and six
analog outputs for your amps/speakers and a powered sub. There is a
unit by Audio Refinement (the Pre-5) that is basically a very nice
stereo preamp with an added benefit of a single six channel input and
output. This can be used to connect an external digital processor (DD
& DTS are what most movies are encoded in) or a multi-channel player,
such as DVD-A or SACD. You probably want to get a preamp/processor
that does the processing internally as external units are hard to find
and may be older technology. There are quite a few brands available
and they can be expensive, but typically perform wonderfully and are
reliable and upgradable in a lot of cases, where receivers are not
quite as robust. A lot of people buy receivers with preamp-out
sections and just use that section to drive other amps. That is the
cheap way to do it and may or may not suit your tastes and needs.
-Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"vmartell" <vmartell22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ctquss02f2l@news1.newsguy.com...
> Thnx for the help
>
>> speakers to a happy system is easy enough. I would however
>> recommend
>> ditching the mixer and getting a standard home theater processor
>> and
>> amp or a receiver at least for powering them. That should get you
>> all
>
>> the features that you might want in such a system plus excellent
>> performance.
>
> I've been thinking about it and yes, a mixer would be a somewhat
> clumsy
> solution for multi-channel using that specific setup. However, since
> the KRK monitors are active (that is self-powered with included
> amplifier) I don't need an amplifier. I guess what it would be
> needed
> is a kind of "passive pre-amp", that is, something that would give
> me
> the switching and routing of sources without the amp circuitry- kind
> of
> well, like a mixer :-).
>
> Does such a thing exist? Is there a recommendation for that?
>
>> is enough for your room and you are trying to get better sound
>> quality, don't confuse quality with quantity. You could get a
>> better
>> pair of speakers, DVD player and amp and then have better sound for
>> somewhere around the price of the added channels.
>
> So far I've been using the rig for stereo listening. The only reason
> I
> wanted to expand to multi-channel is to be able to experience the
> multi-channel audio on SACDs and DVD-As. More than anything I want
> it
> to audition the 3-track Living Stereo SACDs
>
> Thnx for the help. Will certainly consider your suggested
> approach...
>
> V
Anonymous
February 6, 2005 1:31:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Thanks for the suggestion. While using the mixer has been extremely
succefult for stereo audtion, the more I research, the more I concurr
that it would be no very appropriate for multi-channel.... too bad; I
wanted to keep the pro-audio approach.

Thnx again for the info, will seriously look at it.

V
Anonymous
February 8, 2005 4:02:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Hello

Uptown Audio wrote:
> analog outputs for your amps/speakers and a powered sub. There is a
> unit by Audio Refinement (the Pre-5) that is basically a very nice
> stereo preamp with an added benefit of a single six channel input and

> output. This can be used to connect an external digital processor (DD


I have checked the AR Pre-5 unit and have found prices from $700 to
$1200, which is a bit more that I expected to spend on that particular
function. Now, trying to think on how to solve the problem from the
studio/pro audio point of view, I though of a multi-input/output sound
card (with extensive routing capabilities -that is, any input can go to
any output); the beauty I have in mind is a 10 input 10 output card,
192/24 capable with a price of around $250 dollars - not including an
audio friendly PC, which I already have since it is part of my home
studio cum listening rig (a 4GB RAM, double 3 GHz Xeon, dual 250GB
hard drive monster with low noise fans and added insulation which was
used to drive Cubase).

Now, I believe I can use the multi-channel output of my SACD player - a
Pioneer dv-575/578 (can't remember which one is the USA version, which
is the one I have) which I belive are already decoded. The idea is to
stick those ouputs on 5 of the sound card inputs and then route
appropriately to the KRK monitors connected to the 5 (or 6) of those
outputs. Routing and levels will be controlled from the computer.


Anything wrong with this idea?

Thnx

V
Anonymous
February 9, 2005 4:02:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.high-end (More info?)

Complexity, and possibly noise, as well as flexibility. It's your
system...
-Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"vmartell" <vmartell22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cu934202re@news2.newsguy.com...
> Hello
>
> Uptown Audio wrote:
>> analog outputs for your amps/speakers and a powered sub. There is a
>> unit by Audio Refinement (the Pre-5) that is basically a very nice
>> stereo preamp with an added benefit of a single six channel input
>> and
>
>> output. This can be used to connect an external digital processor
>> (DD
>
>
> I have checked the AR Pre-5 unit and have found prices from $700 to
> $1200, which is a bit more that I expected to spend on that
> particular
> function. Now, trying to think on how to solve the problem from the
> studio/pro audio point of view, I though of a multi-input/output
> sound
> card (with extensive routing capabilities -that is, any input can go
> to
> any output); the beauty I have in mind is a 10 input 10 output card,
> 192/24 capable with a price of around $250 dollars - not including
> an
> audio friendly PC, which I already have since it is part of my home
> studio cum listening rig (a 4GB RAM, double 3 GHz Xeon, dual 250GB
> hard drive monster with low noise fans and added insulation which
> was
> used to drive Cubase).
>
> Now, I believe I can use the multi-channel output of my SACD
> player - a
> Pioneer dv-575/578 (can't remember which one is the USA version,
> which
> is the one I have) which I belive are already decoded. The idea is
> to
> stick those ouputs on 5 of the sound card inputs and then route
> appropriately to the KRK monitors connected to the 5 (or 6) of those
> outputs. Routing and levels will be controlled from the computer.
>
>
> Anything wrong with this idea?
>
> Thnx
>
> V
!