American Dragons only

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You probably haven't heard about the ID amendment tacked onto the most
recent Iraq war budget bill. If it passes, within 3 years we will
supposedly be one of those "your papers!" 1984 Orwellian fascist state.
Everyone will be required to carry a national ID card.

You can go to www.unrealid.com and fax your representatives about this.
Please do so, it takes only a minute.

--
The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/

 

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"Polychromic" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ndnv7153aedjm8m9of8jd3dsicldok68ct@4ax.com...
> You probably haven't heard about the ID amendment tacked onto the
> most
> recent Iraq war budget bill. If it passes, within 3 years we will
> supposedly be one of those "your papers!" 1984 Orwellian fascist
> state.
> Everyone will be required to carry a national ID card.


Just for a bit of perspective, I would note that my own driver's
license already has all the same information this ID card will likely
have, and it's already machine readable. Granted, I didn't need to
present as much documentation to get it, and it's not readable by the
feds, but it seems to me that it's not that enormous a change from
what I have now.

I think it's more relevent to people in states where this law will
overturn state laws allowing illegal immigrants to get driver's
licenses. I'm surprised I haven't seen as much mention of it on the
news sources I read that usually balk at such things.

-Ophidian

 

[Guest]

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On Mon, 09 May 2005 17:04:38 -0500, Polychromic <macecil@comcast.net>
wrote:

>You probably haven't heard about the ID amendment tacked onto the most
>recent Iraq war budget bill. If it passes, within 3 years we will
>supposedly be one of those "your papers!" 1984 Orwellian fascist state.
>Everyone will be required to carry a national ID card.
>
>You can go to www.unrealid.com and fax your representatives about this.
>Please do so, it takes only a minute.
I did so. Of course, my Senator is Robert C. Byrd. Who has come out
rather strongly about Shrub's administration's trampling of the
Constitution by ... ah, you get the idea!
-=UDIC=-
Optician Dragon
"Life Is Like A Can Of Tuna Fish - Sometimes It's Good, Sometimes It's Not So Good"
-Alfred E. Neumann

 

[Guest]

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"Polychromic" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message


> That's because it was just tacked onto the next Iraq budget bill.
> It's
> been tried on it's own and has always been defeated.

The Real ID Act passed the House 261-161 back in Febuary, all by its
lonesome.

I read the site you posted; there were better sources elsewhere. That
site didn't even link to the text of the Act itself.

I don't support the Act (I certainly don't support ramming things
through Congress by stapling them to must-pass bills). I'm just
saying that unless you're an illegal immigrant or a judge, it's not a
massive change from where we are now (it merely makes my
already-machine-readable personal-data-containing card called the
"Driver's license" somewhat easier to read for police officers not
from Alabama).

Actually, I'm better off under this system because the card will
contain my driver's license number but not my SSN, which is on the
current driver's license I have now.

-Ophidian

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 05:05:07 -0400, "Zac Bond" <zwb2@cwru.edu> wrote:

>
>"Polychromic" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
>
>> That's because it was just tacked onto the next Iraq budget bill.
>> It's
>> been tried on it's own and has always been defeated.
>
>The Real ID Act passed the House 261-161 back in Febuary, all by its
>lonesome.

Like I said, it (or bills like it) have always been defeated. Passing
half of congress |= passing into law.

>I read the site you posted; there were better sources elsewhere. That
>site didn't even link to the text of the Act itself.

Well, that is the site that makes it easiest to respond. If you want more
detail you can get it from the gov yourself here: http://thomas.loc.gov

Other good articles are the Feb 11 one in Wash. Monthly found here:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_02/005632.php

Ars Technica has one:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050509-4886.html

Wired has one today too:
http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,67471,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

>I don't support the Act (I certainly don't support ramming things
>through Congress by stapling them to must-pass bills). I'm just
>saying that unless you're an illegal immigrant or a judge, it's not a
>massive change from where we are now (it merely makes my
>already-machine-readable personal-data-containing card called the
>"Driver's license" somewhat easier to read for police officers not
>from Alabama).
>
>Actually, I'm better off under this system because the card will
>contain my driver's license number but not my SSN, which is on the
>current driver's license I have now.

Don't worry. You'll just need photo ID besides your license, proof that
your SS card is real (is bringing the little card enough proof?), your
birth certificate, and proof of residence like a utility bill to get your
state driver's license if this passes and isn't repealed.

--
The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/

 

[thehawk]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Polychromic wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 05:05:07 -0400, "Zac Bond" <zwb2@cwru.edu> wrote:
>
>
>>"Polychromic" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>>That's because it was just tacked onto the next Iraq budget bill.
>>>It's
>>>been tried on it's own and has always been defeated.
>>
>>The Real ID Act passed the House 261-161 back in Febuary, all by its
>>lonesome.
>
>
> Like I said, it (or bills like it) have always been defeated. Passing
> half of congress |= passing into law.
>
>
>>I read the site you posted; there were better sources elsewhere. That
>>site didn't even link to the text of the Act itself.
>
>
> Well, that is the site that makes it easiest to respond. If you want more
> detail you can get it from the gov yourself here: http://thomas.loc.gov
>
> Other good articles are the Feb 11 one in Wash. Monthly found here:
> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_02/005632.php
>
> Ars Technica has one:
> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050509-4886.html
>
> Wired has one today too:
> http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,67471,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1
>
>
>>I don't support the Act (I certainly don't support ramming things
>>through Congress by stapling them to must-pass bills). I'm just
>>saying that unless you're an illegal immigrant or a judge, it's not a
>>massive change from where we are now (it merely makes my
>>already-machine-readable personal-data-containing card called the
>>"Driver's license" somewhat easier to read for police officers not
>
>>from Alabama).
>
>>Actually, I'm better off under this system because the card will
>>contain my driver's license number but not my SSN, which is on the
>>current driver's license I have now.
>
>
> Don't worry. You'll just need photo ID besides your license, proof that
> your SS card is real (is bringing the little card enough proof?), your
> birth certificate, and proof of residence like a utility bill to get your
> state driver's license if this passes and isn't repealed.
>

I do not have a birth certificate. Does that mean I can be exempt?

-thehawk
Fallen Angel Dragon, UDIC

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 07:39:21 -0700, thehawk <thehawk5150at@hotmaildot.com>
wrote:

>I do not have a birth certificate. Does that mean I can be exempt?

You'll probably be executed on the spot as a terrorist or something.
You should be able to get one from wherever you were born. All I have is
a little wallet-sized pink card from King county (Seattle).

--
The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/

 

[thehawk]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Polychromic wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 07:39:21 -0700, thehawk <thehawk5150at@hotmaildot.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I do not have a birth certificate. Does that mean I can be exempt?
>
>
> You'll probably be executed on the spot as a terrorist or something.
> You should be able to get one from wherever you were born. All I have is
> a little wallet-sized pink card from King county (Seattle).
>

The navy and the F.B.I. already tried to find one (when I joined the
navy). I have nothing but a piece of paper that says something about
the event of my birth being verified. Which, if you were to ask me,
would be taken care of by the very fact that they were trying to recruit
me in the first place. But that is just me.

-thehawk
Fallen Angel Dragon, UDIC

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

"Polychromic" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:5u8181514ikk0kuithtolbduc8r5m922gi@4ax.com...

>>The Real ID Act passed the House 261-161 back in Febuary, all by its
>>lonesome.
>
> Like I said, it (or bills like it) have always been defeated.
> Passing
> half of congress |= passing into law.

That's true, but it certainly doesn't seem like a decisive defeat.
Some people who are not anti-immigration loons support this, and they
must have some rationale.

> Don't worry. You'll just need photo ID besides your license, proof
> that
> your SS card is real (is bringing the little card enough proof?),
> your
> birth certificate, and proof of residence like a utility bill to get
> your
> state driver's license if this passes and isn't repealed.

Hmm, currently the local library requires two photo ID's and a proof
of residence just to get a library card, so this doesn't sound that
much more onerous.

My concern is that this system is an unfunded mandate dumped on the
states and is extremely poorly thought out (largely because it has not
gone through any filtering in senate debates). Last time I wrote my
senator about something, I got a form letter related to the content
that suggests someone, somewhere actually read it, which was nice.
We'll see what happens this time.

I don't have much of a philosophical squabble with the idea because it
just doesn't seem that different from what exists now; it just makes
it more standardized.

-Ophidian

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

thehawk wrote:
> Polychromic wrote:
>
> The navy and the F.B.I. already tried to find one (when I joined the
> navy). I have nothing but a piece of paper that says something about
> the event of my birth being verified. Which, if you were to ask me,

And it's a good thing you have that much! If we couldn't verify that you
have been born, then you are apparently a figment of somoene's imagination.

-Lumina Dragon

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

In article <ndnv7153aedjm8m9of8jd3dsicldok68ct@4ax.com>,
macecil@comcast.net says...
> You probably haven't heard about the ID amendment tacked onto the most
> recent Iraq war budget bill. If it passes, within 3 years we will
> supposedly be one of those "your papers!" 1984 Orwellian fascist state.
> Everyone will be required to carry a national ID card.
Then most of Europe is a fascist state since before WW2.

> Polychromic

- Nameless

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

LF wrote:
> In article <ndnv7153aedjm8m9of8jd3dsicldok68ct@4ax.com>,
> macecil@comcast.net says...
>
>>You probably haven't heard about the ID amendment tacked onto the most
>>recent Iraq war budget bill. If it passes, within 3 years we will
>>supposedly be one of those "your papers!" 1984 Orwellian fascist state.
>>Everyone will be required to carry a national ID card.
>
> Then most of Europe is a fascist state since before WW2.

But we already knew that, which is why we left in the first place.

> - Nameless

It's you!!

-Lumina Dragon

 

[thehawk]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Lumina Dragon wrote:
> thehawk wrote:
>
>> Polychromic wrote:
>>
>> The navy and the F.B.I. already tried to find one (when I joined the
>> navy). I have nothing but a piece of paper that says something about
>> the event of my birth being verified. Which, if you were to ask me,
>
>
> And it's a good thing you have that much! If we couldn't verify that you
> have been born, then you are apparently a figment of somoene's imagination.
>
> -Lumina Dragon
*chuckles* That might be cool.

-thehawk
Fallen Angel Dragon, UDIC

 

[thehawk]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Lumina Dragon wrote:
> LF wrote:
>
>> In article <ndnv7153aedjm8m9of8jd3dsicldok68ct@4ax.com>,
>> macecil@comcast.net says...
>>
>>> You probably haven't heard about the ID amendment tacked onto the most
>>> recent Iraq war budget bill. If it passes, within 3 years we will
>>> supposedly be one of those "your papers!" 1984 Orwellian fascist state.
>>> Everyone will be required to carry a national ID card.
>>
>>
>> Then most of Europe is a fascist state since before WW2.
>
>
> But we already knew that, which is why we left in the first place.
>
>> - Nameless
>
>
> It's you!!
>
> -Lumina Dragon
How are you gentlemen?

-thehawk
Fallen Angel Dragon, UDIC

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Words to the wise, Lumina Dragon <kewhitte@hotmail.com> wrote:

>LF wrote:
>> In article <ndnv7153aedjm8m9of8jd3dsicldok68ct@4ax.com>,
>> macecil@comcast.net says...
>>
>>>You probably haven't heard about the ID amendment tacked onto the most
>>>recent Iraq war budget bill. If it passes, within 3 years we will
>>>supposedly be one of those "your papers!" 1984 Orwellian fascist state.
>>>Everyone will be required to carry a national ID card.
>>
>> Then most of Europe is a fascist state since before WW2.
>
>But we already knew that, which is why we left in the first place.

No, you have been expelled for religious fundamentalism

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Words to the wise, LF <lf_news@smiling-WEB.NO.spam.com> wrote:

>In article <ndnv7153aedjm8m9of8jd3dsicldok68ct@4ax.com>,
>macecil@comcast.net says...
>> You probably haven't heard about the ID amendment tacked onto the most
>> recent Iraq war budget bill. If it passes, within 3 years we will
>> supposedly be one of those "your papers!" 1984 Orwellian fascist state.
>> Everyone will be required to carry a national ID card.
>Then most of Europe is a fascist state since before WW2.

I looked it up and we have to have an ID here in germany, though the
law is a bit unclear about whether you always have to carry it with
you.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Eek! thehawk wrote:
<snip>
> The navy and the F.B.I. already tried to find one (when I joined the
> navy). I have nothing but a piece of paper that says something about
> the event of my birth being verified. Which, if you were to ask me,
> would be taken care of by the very fact that they were trying to recruit
> me in the first place. But that is just me.

Next time, you show them your UDIC Grand Roster to prove your birthday.


Anyways, I don't have a birth certificate either. All I have to prove my
birthday in the U.S. is my passport.

--
Ashikaga a26

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

In article <u77i81t0nm2fi0h69udqt05tfk2a7scn47@4ax.com>, claus@ultima-
dragons.org says...
> I looked it up and we have to have an ID here in germany, though the
> law is a bit unclear about whether you always have to carry it with
> you.
AFAIK, it's like that in most of Europe. What varies is whether you have
to carry it from when you're 16 or from when you're 18, but France,
Germany, Spain, the UK and Italy at the very least have had the
requirement at the very least since the end of WW2.

> Claus

- Nameless

 

[Samurai]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Quoth LF <lf_news@smiling-WEB.NO.spam.com>:
> France, Germany, Spain, the UK and Italy at the very least have had
> the requirement at the very least since the end of WW2.

You're mistaken on at least one score, Nameless. Britain currently has
no ID card laws -- in fact, the Government is talking about introducing
them in the coming Parliament:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4554827.stm
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
\ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a29
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________

 

[Guest]

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Words to the wise, Samurai <Samurai@dev.nul> wrote:

>> France, Germany, Spain, the UK and Italy at the very least have had
>> the requirement at the very least since the end of WW2.
>
>You're mistaken on at least one score, Nameless. Britain currently has
>no ID card laws -- in fact, the Government is talking about introducing
>them in the coming Parliament:
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4554827.stm

To jump to his defense:
In his original post, he was talking about "most of Europe" and that
certainly does exclude the UK.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

thehawk wrote:
> Lumina Dragon wrote:
>
>> thehawk wrote:
>>
>>> The navy and the F.B.I. already tried to find one (when I joined the
>>> navy). I have nothing but a piece of paper that says something about
>>> the event of my birth being verified. Which, if you were to ask me,
>>
>> And it's a good thing you have that much! If we couldn't verify that
>> you have been born, then you are apparently a figment of somoene's
>> imagination.
>>
> *chuckles* That might be cool.

Depends on whose imagination.

-Lumina Dragon

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

In article <MPG.1cf4991b748a0636989858@usenet.plus.net>, Samurai@dev.nul
says...
> Quoth LF <lf_news@smiling-WEB.NO.spam.com>:
> > France, Germany, Spain, the UK and Italy at the very least have had
> > the requirement at the very least since the end of WW2.
>
> You're mistaken on at least one score, Nameless. Britain currently has
> no ID card laws -- in fact, the Government is talking about introducing
> them in the coming Parliament:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4554827.stm
You're not required to carry government issued ID of any kind once you
turn 18? Curious, I had been told otherwise by british people I know,
several times. I stand corrected, then, in relation to Britain.

> Samurai Dragon

- Nameless

 

[Samurai]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Quoth Claus Dragon <claus@ultima-dragons.org>:
....
> To jump to his defense:
> In his original post, he was talking about "most of Europe" and that
> certainly does exclude the UK.

True, but I'm not answering his original post, and in the one to which
I replied, it was the UK "at the very least", no less. That's a clear
inaccuracy.
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
\ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a29
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________

 

[Samurai]

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Quoth LF <lf_news@smiling-WEB.NO.spam.com>:
....
> You're not required to carry government issued ID of any kind once you
> turn 18?

Nope. Nor before.

> Curious, I had been told otherwise by british people I know,
> several times.

I'm not sure how it happened -- the law is pretty clear -- but you've
been misled. Until our driver's licence started having photographs put
on it about eight years ago, we didn't even have anything that would
/serve/ as an ID card. And not everyone here drives, of course.

> I stand corrected, then, in relation to Britain.

Don't count on it lasting long, though. As I mentioned, the British
Government wants to introduce ID cards this year. It's still a bone of
contention whether carrying them will be compulsory, though. If not, I
really can't see the point of them at all. <
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
\ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a29
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________

 

[Guest]

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Words to the wise, Samurai <Samurai@dev.nul> wrote:

>Quoth Claus Dragon <claus@ultima-dragons.org>:
>...
>> To jump to his defense:
>> In his original post, he was talking about "most of Europe" and that
>> certainly does exclude the UK.
>
>True, but I'm not answering his original post, and in the one to which
>I replied, it was the UK "at the very least", no less. That's a clear
>inaccuracy.

Yes, yes ... damn you for ignoring my weak joke