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Revenge of the Sith

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Anonymous
May 21, 2005 6:30:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Just returned from watching it. I have finally seen the Attack of the Clones
the previous weekend and thought it was sooo mind-bogglingly terrible that
the only way to make the third film any good would be to lock up George to
toy with this beloved CGI and get someone else to do all the directing and
writing instead. So as a result I went in with the lowest of low
expectations which even the deluge of positive reviews couldn't lift, and...


<spoilers>


































Wow, the movie didn't stink!

Ok, George still can't write a decent romantic scene to save his hide, there
are a few cringeworthy scenes and silly inconsistencies galore. But in most
respects the film is a huuuge quantum leap from the atrocities of the first
two episodes, especially the acting. Ewan McGregor is finally allowed to
sparkle; Ian McDiarmid's Palpatine is a great slimebag; Hayden Christensen
is lot more comfortable in the role of Anakin and after losing his
ridiculous hairdo finally looks like a man who a mature woman like Padme
could fall for. And Jar-Jar Binks is an extra without a single line of
dialogue, woo-hoo!

Padme and Anakin's love story still doesn't fully convince me but their
scenes together don't have the nails-on-chalkboard awkwardness of the
"Clones" and some actually have poignancy to them. I'm not fully convinced
by Anakin's slide into the Dark Side; surely there must be a big gulf
between wanting to save the woman you love and actually going on and
slaughtering a bunch of innocent children?

Yoda's smug reptilian wisdom always got on my nerves but RoTS was the
absolute highpoint. "Be happy when someone you love dies? Let go of things
you're afraid to lose?" Gee Yoda, how supportive! No wonder the guy turns to
someone else for guidance.



- GSD

More about : revenge sith

Anonymous
May 21, 2005 6:30:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

On Sat, 21 May 2005 06:30:30 +0200, Great Siberian Dragon
<daria@optushome.com.au> wrote:

> Just returned from watching it. I have finally seen the Attack of the
> Clones
> the previous weekend and thought it was sooo mind-bogglingly terrible
> that
> the only way to make the third film any good would be to lock up George
> to
> toy with this beloved CGI and get someone else to do all the directing
> and
> writing instead. So as a result I went in with the lowest of low
> expectations which even the deluge of positive reviews couldn't lift,
> and...
>
>
Thank you for yourm review which I didn't read more than half-way through
:-). I had decided to skip this one until DVD release. But now I think
I'll give it a chance.

pibbur
Always trust GSD
May 21, 2005 6:30:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Quoth Great Siberian Dragon <daria@optushome.com.au>:
> <spoiler>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
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> Yoda's smug reptilian wisdom always got on my nerves but RoTS was the
> absolute highpoint. "Be happy when someone you love dies? Let go of
> things you're afraid to lose?" Gee Yoda, how supportive! No wonder
> the guy turns to someone else for guidance.

If Anakin had followed the Jedi dictates and not gotten attached
romantically in the first place, it wouldn't have been a problem.
Besides, as Yoda pointed out, all things are joined by the Force, so in
a sense they're always with you. It's all rather Zen. :) 
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
\ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a29
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
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Anonymous
May 22, 2005 2:35:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

"Samurai" <Samurai@dev.nul> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cf92de89a5dafdc989875@usenet.plus.net...
> Quoth Great Siberian Dragon <daria@optushome.com.au>:
> > <spoiler>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> > Yoda's smug reptilian wisdom always got on my nerves but RoTS was the
> > absolute highpoint. "Be happy when someone you love dies? Let go of
> > things you're afraid to lose?" Gee Yoda, how supportive! No wonder
> > the guy turns to someone else for guidance.
>
> If Anakin had followed the Jedi dictates and not gotten attached
> romantically in the first place, it wouldn't have been a problem.
> Besides, as Yoda pointed out, all things are joined by the Force, so in
> a sense they're always with you. It's all rather Zen. :) 

Yeeahhh, but not in the same way as actually having them next to you in the
physical shape.

Of course no attachments in the first place would have solved all the
problems; but once such attachment has been made and grew strong, saying
stuff like "be happy that your loved ones feed the Force" or that detachment
is a path to inner peace is not going to help out. These Jedi have real
communication issues IMO; no surprise they got beaten by a guy who pays
attention to little details.

- GSD
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 4:42:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

I thought it was cool. I liked Grievous.

I thought the first few movies were cool too. I don't expect much out
of Star Wars (or any movies). It's just fun to me.

--
/\_./b__ _O_ <====o Lost Dragon o====> _|_ __d\._/\
(/^/(_^^' | I like people - I just can't eat a whole one | `^^_)\^\)
.._,(_;)_ <===o http://www.lostdragon.com/ o===> _(;_),_.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 6:27:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Lost Dragon wrote:

> I thought the first few movies were cool too. I don't expect much out of
> Star Wars (or any movies). It's just fun to me.

I kinda liked Episode 1, but the hated the first part of Clones. Like when
Anakin jumps onto the other hovership thingy that the assassin was
driving - patently ridiculous. The stadium fight was pointless but fun to
watch.

--
Cape Dweller Dragon
Remember, I've got a debt to pay. It's about quantity, not quality.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 10:13:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

On Sun, 22 May 2005 02:27:43 -0400, Cape Dweller <usenet@ciotog.net>
wrote:

>Lost Dragon wrote:
>
>> I thought the first few movies were cool too. I don't expect much out of
>> Star Wars (or any movies). It's just fun to me.

>I kinda liked Episode 1, but the hated the first part of Clones. Like when
>Anakin jumps onto the other hovership thingy that the assassin was
>driving - patently ridiculous. The stadium fight was pointless but fun to
>watch.

Odd. I'm just the opposite. There was very little I liked about
Episode 1. I rather enjoyed the Coruscant chase, and -aside from the
thrilling denoument when the Jedi first appear - I found the stadium
fight almost painful to watch.

Different strokes, I suppose.
May 23, 2005 12:02:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Quoth Great Siberian Dragon <daria@optushome.com.au>:
> These Jedi have real communication issues IMO; no surprise
> they got beaten by a guy who pays attention to little details.

I wouldn't dispute that. I think it's clear from Episode II that the
order had grown rather complacent.
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
\ `^--^ \\\\\\\\//////// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a29
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 12:43:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

On Sat, 21 May 2005 14:30:30 +1000, "Great Siberian Dragon"
<daria@optushome.com.au> wrote:

><spoilers>
>
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>Wow, the movie didn't stink!

It was about what I was expecting.

>Ok, George still can't write a decent romantic scene to save his hide,

Yeah, some of his dialogue is simply painful.

But then he goes and redeems himself with a couple of lines. "So this
is how freedom dies, with thundrous applause" was nice. And everyone
has commented on how "If you are not with me, you are my enemy line"
is a dig on Bush; wow, Star Wars gets politcal. Nice.

>Ewan McGregor is finally allowed to sparkle;

About damn time. The guy is a great actor, watching Lucas bottle him
up for two movies was pretty sad.

>And Jar-Jar Binks is an extra without a single line of
>dialogue, woo-hoo!

The only way that could have been better is if Jar Jar just happened
to be at the Jedi temple on "the big day". That would have made a lot
of Star Wars fans very happy!

>I'm not fully convinced
>by Anakin's slide into the Dark Side; surely there must be a big gulf
>between wanting to save the woman you love and actually going on and
>slaughtering a bunch of innocent children?

Yeah, that went a little too fast for my tastes. My wife (not a SW
fan) didn't get it at all. I suppose we are to realize that Anakin
has been on the precipice for a very long time now, at least since his
mother died and he went on a Sandperson killing spree. Contributing
to Mace Windu's death pushed him over the edge, essentially he
snapped. The Dark Side = insanity?

>Yoda's smug reptilian wisdom always got on my nerves but RoTS was the
>absolute highpoint. "Be happy when someone you love dies? Let go of things
>you're afraid to lose?" Gee Yoda, how supportive! No wonder the guy turns to
>someone else for guidance.

Anakin is a big boy, he's a freaking Jedi Knight. He shouldn't need
hand holding. My concern with that scene was more that Yoda didn't
figure out that there was a serious problem brewing there that
warranted closer attention, not advice delivered in a "You're a Jedi
and should already know this" tone.

I will close with two final thoughts:

1. Wiping C-3PO's mind...copout? I could not think of any other way
to explain away why he would not remember Anakin/Vader in episodes
4-6, but it's *such* a cop out. Kind of like the "it was all a dream"
ending.

And even if 3P0 doesn't remember Anakin, why doesn't Vader remember
3P0 in Empire? Does he not realize it is his own droid, since they
all look alike? Or does he simply not care anymore by that time?

2. The Death Star is just getting underway at the end of ep3, and it
comes fully online 19 years later in ep4. Okay, great, we know it
takes 19 years to build a Death Star. Yet between ep4 and ep6 they
manage to build about 2/3 of another Death Star. I don't know how
much time was supposed to have passed between ep4 and ep6, but it
surely wasn't more than a couple of years, if that. Are we to believe
that the Empire learned SO MUCH from building the first one that they
were able to improve their Death Star manufacturing efficiency so much
that they can crank one out in only 2-3 years now?!?
================================================
Vulcan Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
Lord of the Chicken Wings
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 3:21:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

On Sun, 22 May 2005 20:43:56 GMT, mcarmack@columbus.rr.com (Vulcan
Dragon) wrote:

>On Sat, 21 May 2005 14:30:30 +1000, "Great Siberian Dragon"
><daria@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>
>><spoilers>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Wow, the movie didn't stink!
>
>It was about what I was expecting.
>
>>Ok, George still can't write a decent romantic scene to save his hide,
>
>Yeah, some of his dialogue is simply painful.
>
>But then he goes and redeems himself with a couple of lines. "So this
>is how freedom dies, with thundrous applause" was nice. And everyone
>has commented on how "If you are not with me, you are my enemy line"
>is a dig on Bush; wow, Star Wars gets politcal. Nice.
>
>>Ewan McGregor is finally allowed to sparkle;
>
>About damn time. The guy is a great actor, watching Lucas bottle him
>up for two movies was pretty sad.
>
>>And Jar-Jar Binks is an extra without a single line of
>>dialogue, woo-hoo!
>
>The only way that could have been better is if Jar Jar just happened
>to be at the Jedi temple on "the big day". That would have made a lot
>of Star Wars fans very happy!
>
>>I'm not fully convinced
>>by Anakin's slide into the Dark Side; surely there must be a big gulf
>>between wanting to save the woman you love and actually going on and
>>slaughtering a bunch of innocent children?
>
>Yeah, that went a little too fast for my tastes. My wife (not a SW
>fan) didn't get it at all. I suppose we are to realize that Anakin
>has been on the precipice for a very long time now, at least since his
>mother died and he went on a Sandperson killing spree. Contributing
>to Mace Windu's death pushed him over the edge, essentially he
>snapped. The Dark Side = insanity?
>
>>Yoda's smug reptilian wisdom always got on my nerves but RoTS was the
>>absolute highpoint. "Be happy when someone you love dies? Let go of things
>>you're afraid to lose?" Gee Yoda, how supportive! No wonder the guy turns to
>>someone else for guidance.
>
>Anakin is a big boy, he's a freaking Jedi Knight. He shouldn't need
>hand holding. My concern with that scene was more that Yoda didn't
>figure out that there was a serious problem brewing there that
>warranted closer attention, not advice delivered in a "You're a Jedi
>and should already know this" tone.
>
>I will close with two final thoughts:
>
>1. Wiping C-3PO's mind...copout? I could not think of any other way
>to explain away why he would not remember Anakin/Vader in episodes
>4-6, but it's *such* a cop out. Kind of like the "it was all a dream"
>ending.
>
>And even if 3P0 doesn't remember Anakin, why doesn't Vader remember
>3P0 in Empire? Does he not realize it is his own droid, since they
>all look alike? Or does he simply not care anymore by that time?
>
>2. The Death Star is just getting underway at the end of ep3, and it
>comes fully online 19 years later in ep4. Okay, great, we know it
>takes 19 years to build a Death Star. Yet between ep4 and ep6 they
>manage to build about 2/3 of another Death Star. I don't know how
>much time was supposed to have passed between ep4 and ep6, but it
>surely wasn't more than a couple of years, if that. Are we to believe
>that the Empire learned SO MUCH from building the first one that they
>were able to improve their Death Star manufacturing efficiency so much
>that they can crank one out in only 2-3 years now?!?
>================================================
>Vulcan Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
>Lord of the Chicken Wings
Or they could have started the second one a couple years after
starting the first one.
Or everyone will have to accept a few holes.
-=UDIC=-
Optician Dragon
"Life Is Like A Can Of Tuna Fish - Sometimes It's Good, Sometimes It's Not So Good"
-Alfred E. Neumann
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 3:21:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:21:51 GMT, Optician Dragon
<DragonLensman1@verizon.net> wrote:

>Or everyone will have to accept a few holes.

I started playing a new adventure game called Still Life. Near the
beginning the heroine can examine a microscope in the morgue. She says "I
can check my blood for Midiclorians...my god that was weak." So I guess
Lucas will be famous...for the greatest plot flub in movie history.


--
The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 6:39:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>>I kinda liked Episode 1
> Odd. I'm just the opposite. There was very little I liked about Episode 1.

Actually now that I think of it there were a few things that I disliked -
the whole idea of podracing for one.

> I rather enjoyed the Coruscant chase

The chase was fine, it was the ridiculous end to it.

>, and -aside from the thrilling
> denoument when the Jedi first appear - I found the stadium fight almost
> painful to watch.

For reasons other than Jedi dying for no apparent reason?

--
Cape Dweller Dragon
Remember, I've got a debt to pay. It's about quantity, not quality.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 8:41:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 02:39:59 -0400, Cape Dweller <usenet@ciotog.net>
wrote:

>Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
>>>I kinda liked Episode 1
>> Odd. I'm just the opposite. There was very little I liked about Episode 1.
>
>Actually now that I think of it there were a few things that I disliked -
>the whole idea of podracing for one.
>
>> I rather enjoyed the Coruscant chase
>
>The chase was fine, it was the ridiculous end to it.

I don't know. I thought the "jump from the car" was great. It's the
sort of silly action stunt you expect from these sorts of movies. It's
really no different than "hero jumps from his speeding car to villians
car" (such as might be found in "Speed" or "Lethal Weapon" or hundreds
of others of action movies), except there is a vertical element to it.
Heck, even Luke did it in Return of the Jedi (speederbike chase)
Certainly it adequately displayed not only incredible skill a Jedi
has, but also the wreckless bravado of Anakin (especially compared to
Obi Wan).

>>, and -aside from the thrilling
>> denoument when the Jedi first appear - I found the stadium fight almost
>> painful to watch.

>For reasons other than Jedi dying for no apparent reason?

Well, that for one. But I was thinking more of the awful sequence
before that, with the cheesy-looking monsters and the heroes' attempts
to evade them. It was obviously an homage to similar sequences as
might be found in early "pulp sci-fi" serials such as Flash Gordon,
but -for some reason I can't quite put my finger on- it didn't sit
well with me. In part, I think, it was because the monsters looked so
ridiculous, both in design (which seems to have been guided by the
maxim "be scary-looking without actually being scary", resulting in
-even for Star Wars- unrealistic looking critters), and effect (they
looked like claymation).

Furthermore, there was a total lack of drama caused, I think, by bad
pacing. Because there were THREE monsters the focus kept shifting from
one mini-battle to the next. Had there only been one
horrifically-difficult-to-defeat creature that all three heroes had to
work together to kill, I think the scene would have worked better.

The Jedi battle wasn't too much better (except for when they first
reveal themselves; it was too obviously a bunch of actors flailing
away at nothing (later to be replaced by CGI robots). Boba Fett mk 2
died as pointless a death as the original (and it seemed, as did all
his appearances in the movies) that he was put in there simply because
he was such a MARKETABLE character rather than because he was actually
necessary to the plot (I mean, we didn't see a big sequence on how
Gonk the Power Droid came into existance, so why Bobba?). And don't
get me started on the whole "C3PO has his head welded to a
battledroid" bit.

Mind you, on the whole I rather enjoyed AotC (as opposed to TPM, which
I endured). I think it's as fine a movie as RotJ (damning with faint
praise?). But there are bits that make me grind me teeth.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 8:41:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 16:41:33 GMT, Spalls Hurgenson <yoinks@ebalu.com>
wrote:

>I don't know. I thought the "jump from the car" was great. It's the
>sort of silly action stunt you expect from these sorts of movies. It's
>really no different than "hero jumps from his speeding car to villians
>car" (such as might be found in "Speed" or "Lethal Weapon" or hundreds
>of others of action movies), except there is a vertical element to it.
>Heck, even Luke did it in Return of the Jedi (speederbike chase)
>Certainly it adequately displayed not only incredible skill a Jedi
>has, but also the wreckless bravado of Anakin (especially compared to
>Obi Wan).

It would have been so much better if Anakin had jumped and then a moment
later *PRANG* he is hit in midair by a bus or something. Then we see
Obi-Wan catching him and scolding him, "If you keep that recklessness up,
we'll soon be replacing all your limbs with robotic pieces!"

Of course the bus mishap so badly disfigured his face that Padme recoils
in horror and then the evil Anakin gets some Rohypnol to have his way with
her...

--
The Polychromic Dragon of the -=={UDIC}==-
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.comcast.net/~rgcud/
Anonymous
May 25, 2005 7:30:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

> I don't know. I thought the "jump from the car" was great. It's the sort
> of silly action stunt you expect from these sorts of movies. It's really
> no different than "hero jumps from his speeding car to villians car" (such
> as might be found in "Speed" or "Lethal Weapon" or hundreds of others of
> action movies), except there is a vertical element to it.

I wouldn't have minded if there was a brief freefall, but it was SO LONG
that there was no way Anakin could have possibly known that he'd land on
the assassin's vehicle.

> think, it was because the monsters looked so ridiculous, both in design
> (which seems to have been guided by the maxim "be scary-looking without
> actually being scary", resulting in -even for Star Wars- unrealistic
> looking critters), and effect (they looked like claymation).

Hmm... I thought they looked pretty good, and I got the impression they
had been brought from whatever planet they could be found rather than
being native animals (which would seem unlikely).

> Had there only been one
> horrifically-difficult-to-defeat creature that all three heroes had to
> work together to kill, I think the scene would have worked better.

Padme had to be shown to be able to take care of herself :) 

> Boba Fett mk 2 died as
> pointless a death as the original (and it seemed, as did all his
> appearances in the movies) that he was put in there simply because he was
> such a MARKETABLE character rather than because he was actually necessary
> to the plot

I think his character was rather crucial, being the source of the clone
material and bringing Kenobi to Geonosis for example.

> And don't get me started on the
> whole "C3PO has his head welded to a battledroid" bit.

Now THAT was pure camp.

> Mind you, on the whole I rather enjoyed AotC (as opposed to TPM, which I
> endured). I think it's as fine a movie as RotJ (damning with faint
> praise?). But there are bits that make me grind me teeth.

I think that's almost always the case with sci-fi, because the directors
think they can take extra liberties (and the limits of technology).

--
Cape Dweller Dragon
Remember, I've got a debt to pay. It's about quantity, not quality.
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 8:39:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons (More info?)

Vulcan Dragon the Worthy Loud Lightning Bolt of Honor wrote:
> On Sat, 21 May 2005 14:30:30 +1000, "Great Siberian Dragon"
> <daria@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>
> ><spoilers>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
<snicker snack>
Yeah this is an old thread but I only saw the movie on Sunday.

I liked it although it was not the best SW movie or anything. I thought
they went a bit overboard with the quotes from the original movies
(Obi's "how uncivilized" about blasters, "join me and we will rule the
galaxy together" from Ani) and having Chewie in the movie was also a
bit gratuitous. Also, I think Yoda should clearly have taken Palpatine
in a straight fight, of course if he had no one would have rescued
Vader and no more movies. :)  Still lots of cool fight scenes and almost
none of that silly stuff. The only thing that stuck out was R2 taking
out two battle droids with an oil slick, R2 is cool and all (I think he
could have taken Gen. Grievous;) but that is not his style. I thought
Anakin's motivation became a little murker. Also, the Jedi were kind of
a bit more high handed then I thought was right in terms of planning to
replace the chancelor and if Mace had not tried to kill Palpatine while
he was "defenseless" he might still be alive.

You know someone here once suggested that Palpatine was actually
responsible for Anakin's conception and Ep III actually seems to
suggest that as a possibility. Palpatine mentions that Darth Plaguous
(?) had such mastery of the force that he could cause the midchlorians
to create life, perhaps he did that with Anakin (although that might be
a bit convoluted even for Palpatine).

I also finally saw Attack of the Clones a couple of weeks ago (the
weekend RoTS opened). I kind of liked it although it definetly had its
bad moments (I could stand the bad romance it was the 3PO head incident
that struck me). Thanks to Ep 2 I have marginally more respect for
Bobba Fett because he has poignant back story and Jango Fett proved
managed to do some actually effective stuff before committing suicide
by going one on one with Mace.

I was a bit disturbed and unbelieving that the Jedi were so willing to
accept a clone army without so willingly despite the huge ethical
problems associated. It is basically slavery and even if you do pay the
Fetts for there work you've created them to be naturally compliant the
ethical can of worms is vast indeed (of course given how intellegent
and autonomous some droids like R2 and 3PO are droids raise the same
issue). Worse apparently neither Obiwan nor Yoda nor anyone else
noticed that the clones had included in there training a command that
caused them to ignore all previous loyalties and associations and wipe
out all Jedi (they must have really been kicking themselves). In Ep III
it was fun to see the clones talking with there helmets off all the
same guy (I wonder if that guy got payed for every Clone Trooper
appearance:) , except one had a scar. Made me kind of sad when they
turned on Obi despite having apparently such a good working
relationship.

> >I'm not fully convinced
> >by Anakin's slide into the Dark Side; surely there must be a big gulf
> >between wanting to save the woman you love and actually going on and
> >slaughtering a bunch of innocent children?
> Yeah, that went a little too fast for my tastes. My wife (not a SW
> fan) didn't get it at all. I suppose we are to realize that Anakin
> has been on the precipice for a very long time now, at least since his
> mother died and he went on a Sandperson killing spree. Contributing
> to Mace Windu's death pushed him over the edge, essentially he
> snapped. The Dark Side = insanity?

I think you have to. I mean consider Palpatine's plan to turn Luke in
ROTJ; get him really mad at me for killing his friends and crushing the
rebellion and then I will get him on side by having him kill his
father, yeah that will work. Clearly this turning to the dark side
thing is pretty far removed from rationality. Also, consider Anakin's
justification of what he is doing afterwards rarely does he mention
saving Padme instead he goes on about preserving Peace and Order in the
Empire, but by that point he knows that Palapatine was behind the
seperatist deal (and so an enemy of peace and order). I think it might
have worked a little better if they had stuck to one motivation instead
of having the two different strains. Also saving Padme was a bit too
cold blooded a reason which did not make sense given that if he put any
thought in it he would see there was no evidence Palpatine could
deliver.

What I did like was the sense that Palpatine is a risk taker. He sets
up situations where if all goes well he can get the big payoff but he
risks it all in the process. It makes his plot to lure in the rebels
and Luke in ROTJ seem to fit a pattern.

> 1. Wiping C-3PO's mind...copout? I could not think of any other way
> to explain away why he would not remember Anakin/Vader in episodes
> 4-6, but it's *such* a cop out. Kind of like the "it was all a dream"
> ending.
> And even if 3P0 doesn't remember Anakin, why doesn't Vader remember
> 3P0 in Empire? Does he not realize it is his own droid, since they
> all look alike? Or does he simply not care anymore by that time?

They could have shown us an army of identical protocal droids to deal
with that I suppose.

I might agree they should just have avoided putting C3PO in the
prequels at all. On the other hand it gives us the droids as the one
unified theme throughout the whole set of movies (other than "Anakin"
and Obiwan). Also, it was established in the original Ep IV that you
could have droids memories wiped and this was a way to stop used droids
from being troublesome, so in some sense it was not out of left field
(assuming you had seen the previously made movies I guess if you see it
in order from Ep I-VI then it is out of left field). Another problem
why not wipe R2's memory (better men have tried I am sure:) , he was
holding out on Luke as well.

My issue with this is I think it contradicts the cartoon series Droids.
:)  In that IIRC during the time period between Ep III and IV the droids
are bouncing around the galaxy with various owners having adventures
and fun (they meet Boba Fett in one IIRC). (starts humming the theme
song) Actually I think Anakin building 3PO contradicts the series to
since I think 3PO talks about what assembly line he came off or some
such thing.

> 2. The Death Star is just getting underway at the end of ep3, and it
> comes fully online 19 years later in ep4. Okay, great, we know it
> takes 19 years to build a Death Star. Yet between ep4 and ep6 they
> manage to build about 2/3 of another Death Star. I don't know how
> much time was supposed to have passed between ep4 and ep6, but it
> surely wasn't more than a couple of years, if that. Are we to believe
> that the Empire learned SO MUCH from building the first one that they
> were able to improve their Death Star manufacturing efficiency so much
> that they can crank one out in only 2-3 years now?!?

Contrived Explanation: Remember until the start of Ep IV the Senate
still exists. So maybe Palpatine has to get his budgets through the
senate and to keep his Death Star project a secret he has to limit the
amount of funding he gives it. Then afte Ep IV he has a free hand and
can spend more extravegently on it. Also, perhaps there were a lot of
spare parts made in constructing the intial Death Star speeding up the
actual process significantly in addition to the lessons learned.
--
d e+ N- T- Om++ UK!1!2!3!4!56A78!9 u uC uF- uG+ uLB+ uA nC nR nH+ nP
nI+ nPT nS+ nT- y- a26, Captain in the Cinnaguard, Weirdo, Blue Bow
[B><B], Website: http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound
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Yours Truly Saint George's Dragon
Allan Olley -==UDIC==-
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"A man has no more right to an opinion for which he cannot account than
for a glass of beer for which he cannot pay." Anonymous.
!