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Separate Or Combined Inks?: The Debate Is On Again

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So far I think Bush is winning. I find it funny how they both mixed up Saddam and Osama in one of the first questions.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

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I just started watching at like 6:15. I don't think there really is a winner yet. Kerry seems to be using this as a forum to clarify his message, and I think he's doing it successfully. Bush seems to be the same 'ol arrogant Bush.

--
"There's more to life than profits."
"Like what?"
"Like, you know, Slurpees and stuff."
<A HREF="http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/video/707/slurpees.mov" target="_new">South Park</A>

Reply to ksoth

what are you talking about?
Bush has done nothing but call kerry a flip-flopper.
He studders on his words.
Watching him is a joke.
I wasn't even for kerry till just watching this now.

Watch out for the bloody Fanboys!

AMD64 2800+ :: MSI Neo-Fis2r :: 1024mb Kingmax ddr400 :: Sapphire 9800pro 128mb :: 10K WD Raptor

Addicted, finally.

Reply to DonnieDarko

I think it's an amazing debate so far. Kerry seems to be surprised by Bush.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

That's how Bush talks. Deal with it. Who cares?

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

Yes, Bush isn't too eloquent a person. I don't see how people can really listen to him and think "leadership."

Bush is saying the same crap over and over and over and over and over and... again.

At least Kerry said he made a mistake when talking about the war, and that Bush made the mistake in fighting the war.

--
"There's more to life than profits."
"Like what?"
"Like, you know, Slurpees and stuff."
<A HREF="http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/video/707/slurpees.mov" target="_new">South Park</A>

Reply to ksoth

Yeah, surprised that the president is saying such stupid things.

--
"There's more to life than profits."
"Like what?"
"Like, you know, Slurpees and stuff."
<A HREF="http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/video/707/slurpees.mov" target="_new">South Park</A>

Reply to ksoth

Both are morons

-----------------------
oh, its a nice day. TO EAT CHILDREN!!!

Reply to gothitbycar

Quote :

Both are morons

Clearly by that comment, whoever you are, you know nothing ... and are an idiot ... one of these two men will be President ... get that thru your stupid little head ...

It seemed to me, to my regret, that Kerry won this exchange. Bush seemed tired ... and rightfully so ... he's had a hard row to hoe ...

Kerry is a sophist ... excellent with dialogue ... but so damn unproven in his assertions ... he's unproven ... but rich ... doesn't show me shit ...

I wish Bush was less consumed by "everthing" ... and able to focus on what is essentially a collegiate exercise ... but in this media age - is so friggin significant.

Kerry won by a head ...

 ...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol - W.C. Fields

Reply to Jake_Barnes

Quote :

Yeah, surprised that the president is saying such stupid things.

Quote :

Both are morons

Quote :

He studders on his words.
Watching him is a joke.

I think a number of you missed the debate.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

I give the first half to Bush and the last half to Kerry in terms of posture. Bush got tired.

In terms of substance I heard what Kerry said and I heard what Bush said and I subscribe to Bush's philosophy, not Kerry's. Kerry says whatever he thinks will aid him politically in terms of Iraq. It's clear to me that he has been against the Iraq war the whole time but voted for it since he thought it would aid him politically. He should have voted against it if he didn't believe in it.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

Ultimately ... the free-world will win ... but not with Kerry ...

 ...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol - W.C. Fields

Reply to Jake_Barnes

In terms of North Korea I think Kerry was dead wrong.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

heheh yeah. but bush wasnt obviously listening to kerry on the last question. lmao.

"Never underestimate the predictability of Stupidity."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Neurotic Narcissist.}=-</A>
{FLM}

Reply to mrface

What do you mean? What did I miss?

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

agreed about the n. korea thing i believe what he said was completely wrong. (sorry for the earlier post it was replied to, late)

"Never underestimate the predictability of Stupidity."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Neurotic Narcissist.}=-</A>
{FLM}

Reply to mrface

What about Kerry saying he would send American troops to Darfur? I'm all for stopping the genocide but I've been following this closely and every expert advises against that. It's all about the African Union.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

Quote :

What do you mean? What did I miss?

well it seemed that GW missed the whole question that was asked, thats why the commentator had to help out there at the end. IMO.

"Never underestimate the predictability of Stupidity."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Neurotic Narcissist.}=-</A>
{FLM}

Reply to mrface

ooh i agree with that. dont need to send troops there yet. wait tilk we have one situation over with before conmquering another.

"Never underestimate the predictability of Stupidity."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Neurotic Narcissist.}=-</A>
{FLM}

Reply to mrface

On numerous occasions I was slapping my forehead because Bush said something that to me was just stupid. He'd say stuff that had no bearing on the argument at hand. He'd resort to repeating the same "Kerry is a flip-flopper" crap that really didn't apply.

--
"There's more to life than profits."
"Like what?"
"Like, you know, Slurpees and stuff."
<A HREF="http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/video/707/slurpees.mov" target="_new">South Park</A>

Reply to ksoth

Susan just got home ... she's the Mgr of a large Barnes & Noble in Tampa ... the majority opinion was "Kerry won" ... but that's from the Tampa Gays ...

 ...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol - W.C. Fields

Reply to Jake_Barnes

I'm a libertarian and I wouldn't vote for either of these guys. But going by my sense of what the typical person will see as winning a debate, I perceived Kerry as having the advantage.

It doesn't look good to most people when you stutter and bush was stuttering a lot. It wasn't just that, he looked run down, he looked really tired. His repetitive mantra approach to debate made him look bad.

Of course, sending troops to darfur Mr. Kerry? It seems no matter what, we're going to be playing the part of world wide do gooder, with guns in our hands.

"Hi, we're from the United States Government and we're here to help you at gun point."

Cigarettes - No cholesterol, high in fiber, low in fat, how could they not be good for you?

Reply to raretech

I've been talking about this with a friend for a while now and for me it's going to be a Bush vote. These next four years for me are going to see a doubling of my salary and fiscally Bush is a better vote for me. The foreign affairs stuff is very important to me but tonight just reinforced my belief in Bush. I don't care if he stutters. People that judge others by how they comb their hair or pronounce words are just using that as an excuse to ignore the substance of the issues. I simply disagree with Kerry on more issues than I do Bush.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

People that judge others by how they comb their hair or pronounce words are just using that as an excuse to ignore the substance of the issues.

I don't think it's an intentional focus when it comes to the swing voters. I tend to agree with you that such things should not be considered the full or even major measure of a man. I only brought it up because image is what it is in this country. I'm trying to take a realistic view of the debate, not a partisan view. My honest opinion is neither candidate said anything of real substance. It wasn't even a real debate anyway. The candidates weren't allowed to pose direct questions to each other, only rhetorical ones. It was a game show. This is my opinion, I'm not trying to tell you how to think, only how I think.

Cigarettes - No cholesterol, high in fiber, low in fat, how could they not be good for you?

Reply to raretech

And I agree ... for me it's Bush on the record ... it might be Kerry on the fluff ... and the bs ...

 ...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol - W.C. Fields

Reply to Jake_Barnes

Well said.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

I just wish it wasn't Kerry in this election. I wasn't sure about Wes Clark when he was campaigning. I thought he could have been a phony snake. But, now looking back I wish that he got the nomination. Hell, I even wish Dean would have gotten it over Kerry. Dean wouldn't seem crazy if it wasn't for that one yell session, which I think the media blew out of proportion anyway.

You know me. Of course, I won't vote for Bush because I honestly think this administration is up to some pretty scandalous stuff. I think Bush is a puppet of CheneyCo., who is really making the decisions. These decisions, I truly feel are deliberatly made to help the few over the many.

Even if I am wrong about the evilness of the Bush administration, I still wouldn't vote for him. He has isolated us from much of the world, and destroyed our credibility with many. If the threat of terrorism against the US is real (which I don't think it is), we will need the world to help us. Right now, with Bush's arrogance and denial of everything, that just won't happen.

I don't think Kerry can win. He has been too indecisive and cryptic in his views and positions running up to the debates. I think that many people did get their first real impressions of him last night, which I actually think he did a good job. I don't think the debate really changed anyone's view of Bush, considering he said all the same stuff he has always said. So, I guess we'll have to see what the polls say to see how he did.

--
"There's more to life than profits."
"Like what?"
"Like, you know, Slurpees and stuff."
<A HREF="http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/video/707/slurpees.mov" target="_new">South Park</A>

Reply to ksoth

I just saw on CNN a poll that said 53% of undecided voters polled thought Kerry won while 37% thought Bush won.

--
"There's more to life than profits."
"Like what?"
"Like, you know, Slurpees and stuff."
<A HREF="http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/video/707/slurpees.mov" target="_new">South Park</A>

Reply to ksoth

18% of those polled said it would make a difference. Apparently only partisan people watch the debates.

Quote :

In a CNN/USA Today/Gallup survey of 615 registered voters who watched the debate, most said Kerry did the better job and almost half said the debate made them think more favorably of Kerry.

By narrow margins, Bush came out better on believability, likeability and toughness. But there was virtually no change among those polled on which candidate would handle Iraq better or make a better commander-in-chief.

The poll does not statistically represent the views of all Americans, because it only questioned people who watched the debate -- a group that is often more partisan than the general public.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

What this might end up boiling down to is whether people see the glass half full or half empty. Kerry is a very negative candidate in an effort to distinguish himself from Bush who constantly HAS to be positive.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

Kerry hasn't been nearly as negative as Bush. BushCo. had the nerve of saying if Kerry is elected, the odds of us getting attacked by terrorists will go up. That is negative.

Kerry's message is that he can do better. Bush made mistakes, and he will fix them. Bush, though, does keep on saying that everything he does is the best, and that he is right no matter what. But, of course he has to say that because admitting he made big mistakes would be bad politically.

--
"There's more to life than profits."
"Like what?"
"Like, you know, Slurpees and stuff."
<A HREF="http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/video/707/slurpees.mov" target="_new">South Park</A>

Reply to ksoth

Quote :

Kerry is a very negative candidate in an effort to distinguish himself from Bush who constantly HAS to be positive.

I'm sorry, but I have to say something. Repeatedly calling your opponent a flip flopper, over and over again, as the central premise of your campaign against him is hardly positive.

Cigarettes - No cholesterol, high in fiber, low in fat, how could they not be good for you?

Reply to raretech

He has flip flopped. Repeatedly.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

When you have an opponent who has a 20 year, largely undistinguished, career ... except that he's changed positions constantly ... then you have to constantly point that out ... it's hard to criticize Kerry's position on anything, since he has taken a stand on both sides of most issues ...

 ...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol - W.C. Fields

Reply to Jake_Barnes

<A HREF="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/01/politics/main646711.shtml" target="_new">Debate a draw, CBS</A>

<A HREF="http://www.nytimes.com/pages/politics/campaign/index.html" target="_new">Too soon to tell, nytimes</A>

Not sure what Washingtonpost thinks.

Not sure what latimes thinks

International media claim Kerry the winner. (no way?!)

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

You know what the LA Times is gonna say ... if Kerry had actually died, they would have declared that to be a smashing success ...

 ...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol - W.C. Fields

Reply to Jake_Barnes

People that say Kerry isn't a flip flopper are being naive. Kerry was up against Dean, a hard core anti war candidate, and he had to distinguish himself. Suddenly he's pro war. He's never been pro war. He went to vietnam to kick start his political career. Everything is politics to him.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

He makes me think of the movie, "The Manchurian Candidate" ...

 ...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol - W.C. Fields

Reply to Jake_Barnes

Quote :

BUSH: My opponent says we didn't have any allies in this war. What's he say to Tony Blair? What's he say to Alexander Kwasniewski of Poland? You can't expect to build an alliance when you denigrate the contributions of those who are serving side by side with American troops in Iraq.

Plus, he says the cornerstone of his plan to succeed in Iraq is to call upon nations to serve. So what's the message going to be: "Please join us in Iraq. We're a grand diversion. Join us for a war that is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time?"

Quote :

You cannot lead the world if you do not honor the contributions of those who are with us. He called them coerced and the bribed. That's not how you bring people together.

Quote :

Now, my opponent says he's going to try to change the dynamics on the ground. Well, Prime Minister Allawi was here. He is the leader of that country. He's a brave, brave man. When he came, after giving a speech to the Congress, my opponent questioned his credibility.

You can't change the dynamics on the ground if you've criticized the brave leader of Iraq.

One of his campaign people alleged that Prime Minister Allawi was like a puppet. That's no way to treat somebody who's courageous and brave, that is trying to lead his country forward.

I found this exchange most amusing.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

Those who fall on the "Kerry won" side ... are those that would generally favor style over substance ...

 ...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol - W.C. Fields

Reply to Jake_Barnes

The debate was a draw for all intensive purposes. Someone said that those who say otherwise are obviously showing their partisan side.

Foriegn media show Kerry as the "clear winner".

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

To call the foreign prescence in Iraq a grand coalition is silly. It's not. It's 90% USA. Bush says "You can't expect to build an alliance when you denigrate the contributions of those who are serving side by side with American troops in Iraq." Well, not many countries are really with us there. Many countries already think of Iraq as a big mistake, but maybe if an American leader is brave enough to say to them, "Well, we made a mistake. But, we have to make sure we succeed because if we don't, it will make things very bad for not only America, but the rest of the world as well. Join us to bring stability to a region of great importance." Because, you know what, that's what needs to happen. We either need a draft in this country, or REAL help from the rest of the world to make our efforts in Iraq successful in a decent frame of time. Continuing to live this fantasy that the US was right and everyone else was wrong won't make other countries join us. Something else has to be done, and Bush isn't going to do it.

--
"There's more to life than profits."
"Like what?"
"Like, you know, Slurpees and stuff."
<A HREF="http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/video/707/slurpees.mov" target="_new">South Park</A>

Reply to ksoth

That's going under the assumption that all the bad stuff you see in the media is the only thing happening over there.

I work next to Camp Pendleton. I see soldiers everyday. They're doing more over there than just dying.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Reply to dhlucke

Well, since you guys (dhlucke and jake_barnes) are frothing with partisanship and being downright negative, I have to call you both on it. This is too funny. I love this about the republicans and democrats, they accuse each other of the very things they are guilty of.

Tell me what Bush said in the debate last night that you felt had substance.

Cigarettes - No cholesterol, high in fiber, low in fat, how could they not be good for you?

Reply to raretech

I know they are doing stuff over there. But, so much stuff has to be done in order for US troops to leave there but have it maintain itself as a stable country. I believe Bush and Kerry both say best case scenario is troop levels won't start decreasing for at least 4 or 5 years. It could possibly last much longer. By getting more countries to help us, I think the possibility of getting to that best case scenario time frame will increase. By going it alone, it may take much longer.

--
"There's more to life than profits."
"Like what?"
"Like, you know, Slurpees and stuff."
<A HREF="http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/video/707/slurpees.mov" target="_new">South Park</A>

Reply to ksoth

Here's a <A HREF="http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2004/10/01/debate01.DTL" target="_new">link to the transcript</A> ... I'll let you do your own research ... since you clearly didn't see the same debate that I did ...

 ...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol - W.C. Fields

Reply to Jake_Barnes

No, I saw the debate. The real issue is, what you think is substance and what democrats think is substance are two different things. What I think is substance is different than both.

The point I'm getting at here is, you guys see the negativity of the other side and decry it, while the other side sees your negativity and decries it. Those of us not on either side, see both your negativity. As for substance, I don't think anything was said by either candidate last night that went any deeper than political posturing.

Cigarettes - No cholesterol, high in fiber, low in fat, how could they not be good for you?

Reply to raretech

Well said ...

 ...more people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol - W.C. Fields

Reply to Jake_Barnes

when bush said thank you it had substance.

"Never underestimate the predictability of Stupidity."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Neurotic Narcissist.}=-</A>
{FLM}

Reply to mrface

LOL

Cigarettes - No cholesterol, high in fiber, low in fat, how could they not be good for you?

Reply to raretech

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